I keep checking for interesting talk about PDX Radio but mostly all I see is nostalgia and towers and transmitters and crap.

I know there's lots of Chief Engineers on these boards, but I suspect many programmers read, but are afraid to post.

Start a thread. Plenty of people here under 50.

I''m under 50 but I like oldies, towers & transmitters, and most of all, crap.

Hey, Ed, maybe you and Djfrresh should get a thread going and have some lively discussion about...you know...young guy crap.

I'm currently under 30, but happen to enjoy the discussion about nostalgia (even if it's about how radio was before I was around), towers, transmitters, and "crap."

My guess is most all programmers and other managers in radio in town (and plenty that live here and are currently out of the biz, and plenty in radio elsewhere) know of and read this board, but don't post because they have no reason to. Others post behind screen names because they probably don't want the endless deluge of unrequested amateur consulting that would result - they get enough of it (and they've already had too much from their old "pal" Newflyer) already.

For more about this said unrequested amateur consulting, see here and here.

I'm under 50 and I'm into crappy nostalgia, crappy towers, crappy transmitters, crappy radio stations, craptacular resauraunts, wrestlecrap, claptrap crap, crappy rap and crappy crap.

"...the way rock & roll was meant to be heard, squeezed down and blasted from a crappy AM radio."

So who else has no life on New Year's Eve?

I'm partying quietly at home, like I usually do. There was a heavy DUI law recently enacted in Arizona that requires mandatory jail time for *any* DUI conviction. Not that I drink much, but I don't need THAT crap!

So I hold my egg nog high and wish everyone a Happy New Year from the desert!

Oh, yes...I'm an hour ahead of the Pacific time zone...2008 has already arrived here, and I'm pleased to report it's lookin' good so far...

Ouch! That's upping the stakes for DUI. Japan has added a new twist: everybody in the car gets nailed. Their rationale? Shouldn't condone it. Interesting huh?

Happy New Year Everyone!

Young guy crap for Scapoosed . . .

ACDCtshirts.com
CamarosandMulletsForum.com
PeekatSuzy.com
CheapDateGizmos.com
FakeID4U.com
PizzaDeliveryJobsHotline.com

I wish I was 50. My liver is around 72 though. Does that make me hip?

Great. Another crap thread, started by a crap poster, who can't add crap afterwards. What a pile of crap!

Gee, maybe he'd be happier on the WWE Smackdown/Raw board? Lots of mullets and beer commercials there...

"Squeezed down and blasted..." I'm under 50,but when I read that I got nostalgic for 970 The Beat

The lack of actual "what is going on today" in PDX Radio demonstrated by these responses just proves my point.

If you think young means "Mullets and AC/DC and WWE Smackdown" we might as well just pull the plugs on those transmitters today folks.

Let me rephrase the question that started this crap thread by this crap poster...

What is happening today in Portland radio that is exciting and relevant and compelling to listen to, or are we just a commodity playing lists of hits that reside on hard drives?

Who is REALLY Talented and why?

Which show is the most entertaining to listen to?

Who is the best talk host in town?

Who so the best syndicated show (the ratings say Mark and Brian..., and Lars Larson can now be heard everywhere) are they really that good?

I am under 25........

"What is happening today in Portland radio that is exciting and relevant and compelling to listen to, or are we just a commodity playing lists of hits that reside on hard drives?"
Well.......let me think................channel 10 still carries Golden Hours (won't be able to say that much about it after February 2009, however) but other than that................

"Who is REALLY Talented and why?"
Ricky Carmichael. Need I say more?

"Which show is the most entertaining to listen to?"
"A Different Nature" on KBOO.

"Who is the best talk host in town?"
Anders Lilleiholm. (I am not sure if that is how he spells his name...) Although I wouldn't really classify him as a *talk* host per se, unless you count his OMSI pod-cast as talk.

"Who so the best syndicated show (the ratings say Mark and Brian..., and Lars Larson can now be heard everywhere) are they really that good?"
"Car Talk" with Clunk & Clank the Tappit Brothers. Yes, they really are that good.

Just my opinions tho........

Car Talk rules! It's the only program this 27-yo "youngster" can stand to listen to on OPB.

Radio? Wait,people still listen to those things?

/going back to listening to MP3's. :-p

For some time after I discovered this board, I made foolishly naive posts. But I was delighted to learn the history that's available here, as the wizardry of broadcasting fascinated me intensely from early childhood.

Later, lacking money for theater tickets or records, the family TV and my battery-eating transistor were my somewhat constricted windows on our popular culture, as well as my constant companions. Those local voices and faces were a big part of my growing world, and I'm immensely pleased they share their memories and experiences here, and that I'm permitted to sit in. (Not that I'm star-struck; it's more like finally getting a chance to meet people I'd long regarded as very good albeit distant friends.)

I soon came to realize the old pros here are a remarkable, impressive bunch, of substantial intelligence and wit and holding great respect for each other, and a devotion to and affection for the biz that is amazing considering what a rough way it is to make a living. They don't make a lot of noise (indeed, their modesty is astonishing, considering the requisite ego of performers), so it takes many months of careful reading to get to know them and where they're coming from.

Note how carefully composed and thoughtful most posts here are, reflecting how deeply these folks care about their peers and profession. (The are even surprising insights in some of the droll one-liners.)

I'm just a once-upon-a-time wannabe (one of those kids who hung around stations and pestered the employees who graciously humored me) who drifted into other areas of communications. I'm honored to be allowed to post here (they're still graciously humoring me, I guess), and while I don't post much any more, I still view the board almost daily, with gratitude.

Happy new year!

There is plenty of interesting nostalgia to be found here, especially about old DJs and those dreaming back to their younger days in the biz. The younger listeners who made radio a cool place to be beginning with the teen marketing of the 1950's and stretching through maybe the late 1990's have found other cool toys and quicker sources for hearing the music without waiting for a repetitive playlist. Their presence died with the invention of the iPod. For over 40 years, the youngsters were the target audience and what made radio cool. Mystified boomer radio execs are putting their best spin on the younger demos exit and have yet to find a better use for the medium without relying on music formats. The BBC is one example of other uses for radio. They never abandoned drama, spoken word, and other thought provoking talk programming that doesn't have the boredom of many American public radio offerings or the ranting of all political beliefs on the dying AM band. As a guy in the geezer demographic, I love my iPod, know live radio DJ's are a part of the fabric of American nostalgia, but do love today's world with it's snappy gadgets that allow me choose what songs I want to hear now.

I'm under 50, as well. Actually, my 34th birthday is coming up in a matter of days. Since one of my unofficial New Year's resolutions is for less bullshit in 2008, I won't go on a long rant in this thread.

To directly answer your question, I think that radio in Portland has largely degnerated into the following--
AM: strident syndicated call-in talk shows of a political nature
FM: commodity jukeboxes that play off of computer hard disks

There are some exceptions. For instance, KUIK runs Dateline Washington, which is a syndicated daily one hour political news and interview show. It does come across as being somewhat biased, however. What makes it stand out is that it is the only longform afternoon news show on Portland commercial radio today.

Things could be done better, and maybe somebody will. On the other hand, it is also possible that in as little as a decade from now, radio programming as we think of it turns into a thing of the past because new consumer devices, like these all-in-one "phones" and digital media players with video displays cause consumers to expect that all audio has to have pictures accompanying it.

Scabpuss said>>>
The lack of actual "what is going on today" in PDX Radio demonstrated by these responses just proves my point.

Then find YOURSELF another board! We like it here...
BUH BYE NOW!

Scapoosed, if you wanted to do some digging on this board (ie: searching in previous threads) you'll find volumes of exactly what you're looking for.

The subjects of "who's the best whatever" and "what's happening in pdx radio these days" has been cussed and discussed every which way to sunday. And it'll all be hashed-over again, guaranteed.

I've found the posts on this board are sorta' like crosstown busses... if the one in front of you isn't quite right, just wait a while and the right one will appear. But complaining that the board isn't quite how you'd like to see it isn't going to change it.

To Alfredo_t,

Thanks for your post, which I agree with. Thanks for having the guts to say what most people in radio can't say.

Motozak2

I got Chronic fatigue syndrome reading your post, guess you have no real answers

Trixter

So you want people who don't think like you to leave, after you insult them! Good luck with that!

Do these questions really "frighten" you guys that much? Radio is Dead - Long Live Radio!

What is happening today in Portland radio that is exciting and relevant and compelling to listen to, or are we just a commodity playing lists of hits that reside on hard drives?

Who is REALLY Talented and why?

Which show is the most entertaining to listen to?

Who is the best talk host in town?

Who is the best syndicated show (the ratings say Mark and Brian..., and Lars Larson can now be heard everywhere) are they really that good?

"KUIK runs Dateline Washington.."

Good note, Alfredo_T.

That show is terrific and I believe pretty unbiased. From my perspective, Dateline Washington presents the news kind of like The News Hour With Jim Lehrer. I like it.

Herb

Ok, let's try it this way.

What do you think? Post up something, and that's highly likely to get some interaction.

eg: Best talk host in town?

Thom Hartmann. He's factual, relevant, handles his callers well, willing to air contrary views, reveals research, etc...

Downsides: (and these, IMHO) Plugs books, will sometimes enter into digression at poor times, but it's usually interesting, maybe that's a wash.

In terms of pure radio production, it's hard to beat Lars. And I'm quite sure that's my particular political bent having an impact too. Lars is high-octane, Thom, more laid back. Both passionate, no question there.

Might give Lars the edge on that one, just because.

To me, the spin factor (known fact to bull ratio) is higher with Lars, and that matters, giving Thom the edge out for the top overall. YMMV.

...

Adding to Mikekolb, post some fact and opinion up, and that's almost always gonna start some talking. From there, it's a conversation and will lead in some of the directions you are looking for.


...and I like crap too.

Thanks Missing_kskd

I have known Lars for quite a few years now, and we are mutual admirers, though I don't go for the political talk much more than in small doses. I am proud to see what he is accomplished. I haven't told him so recently, but I will.

For 25-54 morning talk, I became fascinated a few years back with the fact that Mark and Brian and Howard Stern pretty much dominated the ratings. Mark and Brian are a comfy old shoe, and while I don't have anything particularly against them, I am surprised that Portland doesn't have a local more energetic show to compete. Where is the home grown talk show that is NOT poltical, but funny and irreverent? Does anybody have the guts, or is it too late?

Libtalk is also not my thing, but note that it does better here than just about anywhere else, as does NPR. I love Morning Edition.

Incidentally I meant no animosity towards anyone, just sometimes this board looks pretty sleepy with all the talk of who goes christmas first, and the good old days.

I suppose I was "stirring the pot" because I worry that the good old days are not being replaced by a future. Who has PASSION for today?

I thank all who responded, even those I ticked off.....

I wouldn't worry about that. (ticked off --happens and goes away, and will happen again!)

Passion is hard to come by right now, it seems.

As for energetic and local, aren't these guys local?

http://thewolfonline.com/pages/269505.php

Damn good morning show, if you ask me. I'm not a Country fan, but I like this team a lot.

Edit: Yeah, it's lefty central here in PDX, not that I'm complaining, mind you --it just is. Good for KPOJ!

Scabpuss said>>>>
Trixter

So you want people who don't think like you to leave, after you insult them! Good luck with that!


NO, the INSULT that you gave to all of us was kind of rude. Maybe some like that stuff YOU called crap.

Just sayin' if ya don't like it then you can leave. When you come into a board and start off by saying things are crap yoou've insulted them!

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

By the threads and opinions I read, I think it's safe to say that the majority are under 50.

I'm young, own lots of computer equipment (IPOD, my geek shrine PC...etc), and listen to radio. No matter how hard I try I can not watch an LCD screen while driving. Radio will always have a place; whether or not that place is small or large is up to the consumer.

Part of what made me write the above summaries of what AM & FM have degenerated into was an experience that I had at a New Year's party last night:

The party host had a TV with no antenna or cable connected to it. How were we to determine when midnight struck so that the mandatory toasting and kissing could take place? I asked if I could use the radio in the kitchen and immediately turned the dial to Art Bell on KEX. The host was a bit less than thrilled that I was listening to AM in his house, and asked if there were any New Year's countdowns on FM. I drew a blank on that one, imagining that most FM stations in this market would be playing automated music at the time and cruised to 87.7 (Channel 6 audio). That wasn't of much help, so back to Art Bell I went. Unfortunately, due to the format of Bell's show, he didn't get to announce the West Coast arrival of 2008. Instead, the top of the hour news announced the arrival of the new year. Shortly after that, the radio was switched off (not by me).

The host didn't have a Low Gain Precision TV Antenna to connect to the coax input?

I was about to suggest a straightened-out coat hanger, but the Low Gain Precision TV Antenna might have done the job!!

I was well under 50(relatively speaking)when I started posting here!

Alfredo,
You should have tuned into 810 KGO. Karel was the host and he did the "obligitory" countdown to midnite. Short and to the point.

The precision TV antenna may not work well for The countdown because it was on KATU CH2 and has the longest wavelength of local tv so it needs a longer antenna for precision. But, for the minute or less you needed it, you could have just put your finger on the connector. You were looking for information, not high definition detail.

To ask the generic question "Who/what is the best xxxxxx?" is just a discussion starter. And, as Mikekolb said: "The subjects of "who's the best whatever" and "what's happening in pdx radio these days" has been cussed and discussed every which way to sunday."
Everybody has opinions and views and you can discuss forever the same thing and you will get 10 different answers from 10 different people. We hall have our preferences and likes/dislikes so we will give an answer based on those. There will not be any real consensus. It doesn't make any responsed right or wrong. They are just opinions..some better or worse than others.

Alfredo,
I can understand where you get your idea of what AM radio has morphed into but is it really true? The big ones for sure seem to be all political talk but are they really? and all the time? Clark Howard generally is not political. I wouldn't call Mark and Dave political. Same for Coast to Coast and Dr. Laura.
If we look the AM dial in Portland, there are 23 stations. Nine are classified as talk, two of them religious talk. Three are sports or mixed. Eleven are music oriented. Granted, six of those are Spanish.

I am over 50 and I think my ears still work fairly well and I am a radio 'war horse'. What I hear is some desirable formats on the broadcast bands but they dont stand up 'technically' anymore to the alternatives ie: Satellite and IPOD. It reminds me of the late 70s and forward in time when FM radio stations started kickin' butt against the stalwart AMers. It was the beginning of the virtual end for AM radio as we knew it. Some things stay the same dont they? Now it is happening to the entire broadcast radio spectrum. The only hope is HD for broadcast in general and particularly that it remains 'free of charge'. Hang your hat on that radio fans.

Music still rules. And who ever can shake and bake it the best wins.

Trixter

I have a lot of Crap in my garage. Some of it I like a lot, but I recognize the difference between crap and stuff that's really important. Guess you are a hothead.

"I got Chronic fatigue syndrome reading your post, guess you have no real answers"

God, lighten up dude. You asked for our opinions (albeit somewhat inderectly), and I gave you mine. What more "real answers" do you want?

If you were looking for specific "right/wrong" answers and I, Trixter, and others apparently don't seem to have "properly" given them to you, you really don't need to flame us because of it. That's only counterproductive, and is what some users seem to consider the forums at Radio-Info are intended for.

But, since you asked:
>> Do these questions really "frighten" you guys that much?
Not me, personally. There are bigger things I have been frightened of, exempli gratia, if the big C-Tran bus will go through the intersection and run me over even though I have the "WALK" sign and I am left to bleed to death in a gutter somewhere, or if I forgot to file my income tax on time. While I really can't speak for anybody else as I can't read their minds and tell if the questions frighten them or not, I can say they don't frighten me at all. You asked, I answered. Said and done.

There.

Have a good day, Scapoosed.....

> I can understand where you get your idea of what AM radio has morphed into but
> is it really true?

Strictly speaking it is not true, and I do listen to some of the non-political shows, such as Clark Howard, Handy Randy, Bill Wattenberg, Dean Edell, Rick Emerson, etc. However, I think that the people who don't want to touch AM with a ten foot pole have the impression that all that they are going to hear on AM is right-wing political commentary. I should have been a little bit more detailed in my original posting. At the heart of it, I think that the stereotypes of AM & FM programming that I listed are marketing issues.

From the first post:

"I keep checking for interesting talk about PDX Radio but mostly all I see is nostalgia and towers and transmitters and crap. "

What YOU may find interesting will always be subjective no matter the topic. I have been around radio since I was 14, in it professionally since I was 19. I'm a mid-lifer now and still have a passion for this medium. My resume has many Portland stations on it with various formats, but currently I find myself voice tracking a morning show on the southern Oregon coast for the past 6 and half years while living in Portland.

I think Missing gave a nice personal assessment along with Alfredo.

Honestly I don't listen to radio or watch much TV period. My mind is already cluttered with my daily routine. I don't own an iPod and try and keep my techy things to a minimum, which is difficult since I run a recording studio.

Creative radio still exists. (Prairie Home Companion, Car Talk and many community radio stations do loads of local stuff).

If you can connect emotionally with your listener then you are doing your job. The technical talk is fun to throw around because you end up learning about stuff and no one needs to know that you really like it.

"I wish I was 50. My liver is around 72 though. Does that make me hip?"

Tragically, yes.

Scab said>>>
I have a lot of Crap in my garage. Some of it I like a lot, but I recognize the difference between crap and stuff that's really important.

Then you won't start another thread on here that's an insult then right???

Trixter.

Dude.

Let it go, you remind me of my wife on day 26.

At 43 posts in under 3 days total that makes this thread the most popular in terms of posts per day in quite awhile. If you read all of the responses, I would say at least a 50 share had interesting things to say. Many even took the word crap for the satire it was meant as.

I also found out about a show in the morning that someone actually likes, Mike and Amy on the Wolf. I am checking them out.

So what exactly do you think you taught me?

BUH BYE NOW!!

"At 43 posts in under 3 days total that makes this thread the most popular in terms of posts per day in quite awhile."

Nope, that honor goes to KLYC threads.

Scab..
YOU kept it going....
Not trying to teach you anything cause it sounds like you've been taught enough.

DUDE!

Peace

I am under 50 and bored with the talk of transmitter sites and translators and stuff like that. I also find the trashtalking about certain stations, companies, and personalities a big yawn.

Why don't You start a thread on what YOU would like talked about. You might find a great deal of us want to comment on Your topics also.

Scapoosed-

You asked about non-political local irreverrent talk?

The Rick Emerson Show on AM970 11-3 weekdays.

There ya go! Thanks for stirring it up a bit here.

Oh, BTW, I'm over 50.

I am well over 50, but I listen to radio about 6 hours per day.

I haven't noticed your name for quite awhile, Warner. If you've been here all along and I'm just having a "sophomore moment", please disregard. If not, welcome back!

Semoochie- Thanks! I changed jobs (after 30 years at the same place) and have had much going on, thus less time to read and post. But I'm hanging around...

Warner do you enjoy your new digs?

Oh yeah! I went from commuting up to 2 hours a day to commuting 10 minutes a day. And I have my own office!

Just like a grown up!

Hey Scappoosed...

I am under 50 (by several years) and just to let you know, I also agree with you that the overwhelming majority of posters on this board seem to be enamored with the glory days of yesteryear when it comes to radio.

There is great radio being done these days, and there is quite a bit of crap radio. Just like it was in the 70's and 80's. And there's great music and crap music, same as it ever was.

Problem is, as human beings we have selective memory, and we'll always look more kindly on the music, radio, and culture of our youth than we will on what's happening today. And despite consolidation and voice-tracking and whatever the evil-of-the-day, I believe terrestrial radio will survive - though likely in a different form than we now know it.

20 years from now, people will be on this board raving about Rick Emerson, Daria, Mike Chase, Nelson, Iris, Stacy Lynn, etc. and how there's no one like them on the radio anymore, posting their airchecks and cursing the ownership that no longer allows for such talent to thrive...

"Is Anybody On This Board Under 50?"

Not any more.

I try and get 80. If you give me enough hours I'll come down to 65.

Actually I say this is a classic example of, The Emperor Has No Clothes!

Bad things do happen in this world, and radio today is... suffering a major low point.

This industry has blown off talent, the programming department, even the audience. Now radio is in awful shape. That's not just the opinion of posters on this Portland message board, it is a situation widely discussed across the nation.

Radio is often compaired with the record industry, they've screwed up too. And, almost everybody knows it.

Check the ratings, the stocks, or just turn on a radio. You'll know we've got a very compromised radio industry right now.

Clear Channel just put a freeze on audience research and air talent hiring. Doesn't sound like great radio to me.

LOL @ Low Gain Precision TV Antenna

Congratulations Warner!

I try and get 80. If you give me enough hours I'll come down to 65.

LOL, so Andy, you think you could recap and troubleshoot an old Marti CLA-40H in under an hour? :0)

Now, on to the big questions:

Is Anybody On This Board Under 50?

Yes, I still have 12 years and change until the half-century mark.

Who is REALLY Talented and why?

Bill Cooper. He carries on a long tradition of excellence in broadcast education at KBPS. Under his leadership, the program continues to instill the skills and stoke fires in the bellies of the best young talent. Year after year the true spirit of radio is passed to new generations. Not only that, but after a few listens, you will find that they are learning to program with arguably the deepest music library of any station in the region.

Which show is the most entertaining to listen to?

Since I just thoroughly enjoyed 106.7 minutes of the Beatles flawlessly presented by the very knowledgeable Brad Dolbeer, I will give him -- and Fabruary -- the first tip of my hat. On K-Hits, they run cool specials and themed weekends fairly often. Of course, the unpredictable Rock-n-Roll Cafe with Mark Lindsay is a groovy time too.

I also really like Rockaholics Anonymous on KBOO -- though I still miss Don Manning, the nights of Baron Landscape and the Church of NW Music.

KMHD also has some fine programs. Blues Palace, Jazz with Tom D'Antoni, and Beats & Pieces with Steven Cantor (formerly on OPB) are all worth a listen.

The annual countdown of the top classical pieces on KBPS 89.9 is programmed entirely by the listeners and is a great way to wrap up the year. The rock and roll from A to Z on KGON is also a real treat.

Who has the best syndicated show?

OPB carries many great shows. I would certainly single out, This American Life, Fresh Air, Thistle & Shamrock and Prairie Home Companion as longtime favorites.

I am also quite fond of American Top 40: The 70s on KLTH, St. Paul Sunday Morning on KBPS, Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz on KMHD, and Little Steven's Underground Garage on KGON -- to name a few others.

Heck, I could probably list a great deal more, but I think I have made the point that radio in this town is still entertaining and worthwhile. You may have to dig for the goods, and some nights resort to MW DXing and shortwave, but the dial is still alive.

To paraphrase the original post, I also keep checking in for interesting talk about PDX Radio. I am rewarded with humor, rumors, vitriol and scuttlebutt. I get a good batch of nostalgia and information about towers and transmitters and crap too.

Let me step right up and show my age. I'm over 50 and damn proud that I have survived this business for nearly 36 years. Every once in awhile they see fit to put the "old man" on the air to fill-in. Couple weeks ago while doing the morning show, the news lady was walking down the hallway when she stopped and started motioning wildly through the window at me. Alarmed at first, thinking I had screwed-up something important, I opened the control room door, stuck out my head where in a loud whisper she said "your mic is not on"......I relaxed from my initial alarm and replied to her, "I know, I was just practicing a bit"....she looked at me with surprise, and said "I've never seen anybody do that before"..... But, you know, a couple minutes later, when I did that stop set (live by the way) it came off pretty damn well. Yep, I'm over 50.

Bravo, Larbear! Show 'em how it's REALLY done!

"We're not in the business of providing news and information. We're not in the business of providing well-researched music. We're simply in the business of selling our customers’ products."

Lowry Mays of Clear Channel in Fortune magazine back in 2003

I was just thinking about how much music radio has changed, so excuse me for going back in time, again.

Remember when staffing was so much different. I'm talkin' 70s-80s music radio.

Our station, top 15 market size, had a morning drive DJ, a sidekick newsman, a sports announcer, a traffic guy (in an airplane), the mid-day jock, the pm drive jock, the early evening jock, the late night jock and the overnight jock. Also 2 weekenders and a full time copywriter/production guy! A Promotions director with 2-3 assistants. And this was just for one FM station! That's quite a difference from radio today!

"We're simply in the business of selling our customers’ products."

And when selling the enterprise itself gets lost in translation, it loses value perception.

IMHO, another part of the picture is seen when the question, "How do we sell our customers products?" gets asked.

People listen because they will get something of value. Might be a new tune, some info, connection to a person, piece of a story (drama), etc...

That thing is worth more than the attention cost required to endure an AD, or they won't listen anymore right? It's not like they have to listen is it?

Selling the enterprise then, adds value to the sales channel directly. The value of the channel is related to revenue from customers wanting to do their own selling.

Seems to me, that value is then directly related to how much investment is done in the channel (radio value perception with ordinary people in general).

Just selling hard, with the lowest cost formula does not maximize the channel value. That lowers it's ability to compete with other channels, and today, there are a lot of other channels, and they are adding lots of different kinds of value.

Yet another way of saying the cool is valuable. Like it or not, cool comes from people only. Clearly, the old ways of leveraging people is too costly, etc...

Investing in new ways to leverage people, cultivate, aggregate and generate cool, goes right to the value of the channel and how it competes. There is a necessary place for people --it's just new and different places, some yet to be discovered and defined.

oops, forgot about the off air music director and the audience research (callout and request lines) person and their staff of 5! The PD assistant/secretary. So that would be about 24-25 programming people!

Ya, last gig I had..once in a meeting with a new OPS mgr , back about 2004...he was talking about how radio had changed and changes were coming up...( and they did , the next day , two fulltimers got the ax ). When it came to me to sound off, cause he gave everybody a chance to do so...( beware what you say in one of those meetings )I went off about COPYWRITERS...I said back in the day we had a copywriter..and we could sure use one now...cause there were lots of issues about sales people doing a terrible job at it. This guy looked at me like, What? Oh you had a copywriter???? Ya, larger market than this one..but we did...I dont think he had ever heard of one in a radio station...he was about 15 years younger than I was. I supposed that figures..

i am 53 and proud of it. i too have been in this business around 35 years. i still have a good job and wake up every morning looking forward to my job. i hope you all feel the same way later in your career.