How's the process in this way of 'airchecking' doing today from the PC in your opinion?

Granted there are many stations online to do so

Well, the only comments I have are that digital is really nice because you've got lots of storage, and if recording a stream, you get a 1:1 copy of whatever lossy thing they send.

This is the best case scenario.

See if your computer permits the stereo mix option. If it does, when you enable it, you can just record what you hear. My laptop has this, and it's just sweet for snagging the occasional bit here and there.

If you are going through an analog source first, like using one computer to record another, or record from a digital device that only offers analog, such as an HD Radio, then it's more like the tape, where you've got to set volume levels and such.

Do this in 24 bits of audio resolution, not 16. You get more headroom, and it feels a lot more like tape to me, in terms of cracks, pops and other things.

I don't own any soundcards that, to my knowledge, support a 24 bit resolution. Just out of my own curiosity, what file format does one have to use to store 24 bit audio samples? Is .wav limited to 16 bits of resolution?

.wav can hold the higher bit depth data.

I don't have one at the moment either

There seems to be a fair number of external USB audio products that do this. IMHO, one of those would be the way to go. Use a laptop, tower, whatever to hold the data, and just take the box to where the recording needs to happen!

And check this out! A listening contest to see if it's really better, or maybe we just think it's better!

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BitsTest.html

Where is CJ when you need'em?

"what file format does one have to use to store 24 bit audio samples?
wav
aif
aiff
sound designer 2
ac3
DTS

and many many more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_file_format

Where is CJ when you need'em?

Dude, I was waiting for Andy. There is no way I can speak to any of this. To which Andy can attest.

Airchecks from a PC is the topic. Sounds like a good idea.

Higher bit rate and sampling rate chews up hard drive space, so unless there is a "skimmer" script for the computer to only catch the live mic segments I would resist going 24/96. Of course, the script would have to interact with outside stimulus to know when to record, and this part sounds a little more involved.

One minute of stereo audio at 24/44.1 needs about 16 MB, or about 1 GB per hour, so running a 24/7 monitor still calls for tape archiving unless you budget for lots of 2.5 TB drives.

As far as cassette audio to digital transfer, most consumer cassettes are of marginal frequency response. What I do is (besides trying to use the deck that recorded the cassette in the first place) capture them to my DV camera at 16/48 and do the editing in final cut pro, then using Compressor I export the tracks at 44.1 to Bias Peak LE for sweetening if needed (fcp has great audio tools) and then burn a CD from that. A consumer USB interface like DV bridge would eliminate the camera step although you wouldn't have a digital tape archive, which if you do a lot of this kind of stuff can prevent clogging up your hard drives although they are getting so inexpensive ... however, if your archive drive crashes you've got nothing unless you back up your archive drive, and now it's a cost analysis thing. The advantage of an external or internal capture card is that you can directly capture the analog at any resolution your software/hardware supports. The caveat is why bother with an analog cassette source. It's overkill. But that's not what the thread is supposed to be about.

Right, but this thread 'can' be flexible I suppose

Andy: you say it's better to DUB to a DV cam?

..and what about MONO cassette recordings in general?

Thx!

Not better than direct capture with an external or internal card.

Using the DV camera as the transcoder A/D just saves buying a capture card for the occasional user that already has a DV camera with Firewire or USB2 connectivity.

Cassette recordings in general are of limited frequency response.
Getting over 10kHz response is rare and limited to higher end consumer cassette decks or broadcast cassette decks.

For voice, it's irrelevant, however it's still best to use the record deck for playback, especially on consumer equipment. Slight misalignment of the playback deck and/or record deck results in crosstalk when the tape is played on a deck it was not recorded on.

I may have missed something, but I had interpreted one key aspect of the original question to be: If I want to "aircheck" a streaming audio source, is there some way to directly capture the stream instead of having a soundcard convert the audio to an analog form, only to have it digitized again in order to record the aircheck. Am I even close in my interpretetaion? I don't know the answer, so I would be interested to find out.

There are numerous ways to capture streaming audio.

http://all-streaming-media.com/record-audio-stream/all-streaming-audio-recording -software.htm

"Cassette recordings in general are of limited frequency response.
Getting over 10kHz response is rare and limited to higher end consumer cassette decks or broadcast cassette decks."

You could also try recording to the line-in of a VCR onto the Hi-Fi audio tracks. Still analogue but far higher frequency response than a regular audio cassette.

Hint: If you record in EP/SLP mode, try to play it back on the same VCR you recorded it on because of the alignment issues that Andy mentioned. (Especially true if you are using VHS--you'd get the occasional [sometimes constant] "buzzing" noises if your tracking is even slightly off.) SP would be your best bet, I think, for compatibility. Supposedly recording Hi-Fi on VHS in EP mode causes some slight reduction in fidelity as opposed to the same thing in SP, though I've never found it to be noticeable.

Yeah, I know it's not digital. Unfortunately I haven't the money (nor the justification) to buy DV equipment, yet.......

At least you can still obtain a tape archive copy this way.

No streamed source material is going to be of archive quality, so sweating fidelity at this juncture is kind of a waste of time. The old days of folks recording shows on a boombox radio with a cassette player are still comparable to the magical memory box on the desk.

I used Jaksta to grab quick and dirty audio from a wide variety of sources for a little Christmas mix. Virtually anything you can find on the internet can be captured, but of course most all of it sounds compressed, underwater and lossy. Tracking it on a Studer would not change that fact.

For something as simple as grabbing a quick copy to enjoy later, as Andy said, there are quite a few programs. Many, like Jaksta, are free to try. You can always edit the results in Audacity, which is also free of charge.

I just thought I throw in something here about DV cameras and sound recording . . . most prosumer videocameras have the AGC control permanently ON! Even when plugging in another mic or source to the aux sound input on the camera -- at least on the ones I know about.

A low price professional camera with AGC that can be shut off is the Sony PD150 -- about $1500 some years back.

I don't need to tell you how much fun it is to record sound with an AGC feature!

These are all just 'great' tips folks!

Thanks - keep 'em comin - and Happy 2009!

Receptional, you are welcome. As CJ pointed out, Andy deserves the most credit for the heavy lifting.

"I don't need to tell you how much fun it is to record sound with an AGC feature!"

Yes, they can be a bunch of fun. I understand the sarcasm, but really, fun is the word. Especially driving the clipper on the front end of old DeltaLab delays and mangling sounds though retired Dorrough broadcast gear.

Of course, we gotta keep all that a closely guarded secret.

The AGC on the DV cameras is as much a blessing when shooting as it is a curse when dubbing. It's tough to ride the gain and shoot video at the same time unless it's a static shot.

Truth is, almost all audio being captured off air or off net has already been processed, frequently by someone that doesn't know what the heck they're doing. Even a properly processed signal is going to be reduced in dynamic range so the DV camera AGC isn't really as significant when dubbing a pre processed signal as it is when picking up live sound.

Beachtek makes a line of XLR to stereo mini boxes that bolt right on to the camera's threaded tripod insert so you can take a balanced feed from a real mixer fed by real microphones to record your son's garage band or whatever. It means you have to leave the DV cam on a tripod doing the static full shot but you can borrow another DV camera for the B shots. Hire one kid to capture the B roll/wild sound and another to ride the gain on the mixer and you can be a ..... drumroll ... producer.


You make it happen with the pieces available

"Truth is, almost all audio being captured off air or off net has already been processed, frequently by someone that doesn't know what the heck they're doing."

Bingo! That is why I liken some of it to my younger days of listening to somewhere far away on my old National NC-60B.

I dunno about the rest of you guys, but on the internet, I think the playing field is pretty level. It goes from good enough to decent to halfway decent to kinda not-so-good to icky-jitter-squonky to catbox.

In a way, it is kinda funny. For the sake of discretion, I will not name names, but it bears noting. One regional group of lads got a label to drop -- and I am crapping you negative -- a cool quarter of a million dollars to produce a record. At the same time, a diligent ensemble in our area was busy crafting a collection in a little home studio.

I remember being on-line last year, flipping between the two releases on Myspace. I marveled that the shrill, tizzy sounding, digitally processed, autotuned, bright mess was really worth every penny on money mountain to somebody, somewhere, at some point. I could not deny that I was in love with the record that cost under a grand to produce. It was gorgeous.

As for taking any of these things without permission with some sort of fancy computer doohickey, well, it is hard to condemn non-commercial use. I made mix tapes for years, and folks gave me mix tapes too. Discovering music I liked always led to purchases. I think that a low resolution copy of something you love will make you search for an original hard copy of any given recording. Even if it takes years to find one.

I totally agree with you. I say "secret" because we don't want the prices on this old junk to get out of hand now, do we? Gotta keep things reasonable until I've managed to buy some for my own rack. I just love the fact that Dave Fridmann digs using old audio and broadcast processing to make something that will be going through the new audio and broadcast processing. He certainly isn't alone doing it, but he is one of the most imaginative.

Andy, I am sure you get why it is so funny. For years guys had to wrestle so many of these old dogs on the bench. Finally, management freed up a few measly bucks for something new. Sometimes it was pitched in the dumpster, sometimes it found a new adopted home, and sometimes it languished in storage for decades, but sooner or later, it came back to haunt the airwaves again.