Tri-Met's MAX lines have once again proven to be worthless when they are needed the most.

Want to get from Gateway to the airport? Sorry, the switches are frozen. Gotta take a bus.

Want to get from the Rose Garden to the Expo Center?
Sorry, the switches are frozen. Gotta take a bus.


Want to get from the end of the MAX line in Gresham to Portland?
Sorry, the switches are frozen. Gotta take a bus past the first few stops.


Didn't they learn their lesson back in 2004?

Well, just let TriMet dip into their infinite pot of money and buy all the new, weather-resistant equipment they need to keep all the MAX equipment running at 0 degrees...

Andrew

I'm not sure where people needed to go today.

Well, some people probably tried to get to the airport (it was open; even if many flights were canceled, some weren't, and there are a lot of people who work there). I took MAX to the airport in the snow on Thursday; it worked that day, but believe me, I'd have been pissed if I was delayed 30 minutes because I had to get off at Gateway and crowd onto a shuttle bus.

I don't necessarily blame TriMet, though, because as I said above, they don't exactly have money to burn. I have no doubt that if money was no object, TriMet trains would have the best equipment money could buy. They have to budget for things, and expensive equipment that deals with weather we have once a year may not be worth buying.

Andrew

Southwest, Horizon and Alaska have all cancelled flights since last night. I would say today is a low priority day, however, on Monday TriMet should bust a move and get things rolling.

However, to put it in perspective, Amtrak has cancelled their services and up in Seattle, where they have basically the same storm, they've cancelled over 100 of their 220 bus routes.

I'd say TriMet isn't doing too bad overall.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2008/12/got_problems_with_trimets_serv.html

My paper didn't come today and I'm trying to read it online and I DON'T LIKE IT!

Actually, I read that they hadn't canceled all flights at PDX today (a majority of them but not all of them). The big problem at PDX was that there weren't enough deicers, not that there weren't any. I assume some flights got out today.

Even so, as I said, people still need to get to and from PDX. Maybe they got to the airport, their flight was canceled, and they need to get home.

Amtrak is in a much worse boat than TriMet - they are in a terrible financial mess. (Good for them John McCain lost the presidency; he HATES Amtrak.) Amtrak doesn't even own the tracks they travel on in many parts of the country including Oregon-Washington. If the owner of the tracks (freight companies) don't have passable tracks, not much Amtrak can do about it.

Andrew

Not only did they increase the prices to ride tri-met, They are not available when the weather is the worst!

SCREW TRI-MET! MY SUV IS BETTER THAN TRI-MET!

Lets wait till tomorrow buns when your SUV is not moving due to major traffic stoppages as a result of nutty drivers in SUVs. MAX will be zooming by every 15 minutes.

However, they are still providing service of some sort. I realize not everyone who will ride MAX will want to ride a bus, but at least basic service still exists, even if on 30-minute intervals.

Over on the KATU site, whose "closings" page is practically a regurgitation of pdxinfo.net, it mentions that Skamania Co., Sandy, and Canby have called tomorrow in... no transit service in those communities on Monday. Additionally, Cherriots in Salem doesn't run on Sundays and soon won't run on Saturdays, either.

Many other places in the Portland TV market have no transit service available at all. The wall-to-wall coverage includes phone conversations with Mary Fetsch of TriMet and Scott Patterson of C-TRAN, both assuring viewers that if they have somewhere to go that either agency serves to just wait and they can get you to where you need to go. No doubt that viewers out there watching the coverage are saying 'that's nice and I'd use whatever was available in a time like this, but I live way outside the metro area and no service is available to me at all.'

I remember back in 2004 when even the post office shut down for a time, but TriMet was still sorta kinda running. Scrawled on the side of one of the dirty buses (they can't wash them down when it's freezing) was "TriMet runs when the post office doesn't." So at least someone out there was appreciative that any level of service was being provided.

SCREW TRI-MET! MY SUV IS BETTER THAN TRI-MET!

Mine too! Had NO problems getting around today. Was out looking for places to drive that were tough. Couldn't find any.

Had fun and pulled 5 people out of where they were stuck!

The Max ran Saturday night but not very well. Had to wait at some stations for them to thaw out switches. What should have been a normal 30 minute ride took 90 minutes from Gresham Cleveland Station to Hollywood station.
Sunday morning, as Mary Fetsch said that Max was running every 10 minutes except the last two stations and that shuttle buses were running to take passengers to those locations, I tried to get home. I got on the Blue line at Hollywood at 9:10 AM. We sat at each station along the way (over an hour at 82nd) and finally got to Ruby Junction at 11:30. There were many buses at Gateway to take people to the airport (and there were many). At Ruby Junction, the driver said we could stay on the train to keep warm until the shuttle bus came. After 10 minutes and no shuttle bus, he told everyone to get out because he had to move to the yard. My daughter arrived at that time and picked me up and took me to Cleveland where we put chains on my car and chipped away at the ice on the windows. I was there 20 minutes and saw people standing and waiting for the shuttle bus to pick them up and never saw one of the "many frequent" buses they were using. Some with kids and luggage.

I remember the same thing happening the last time we had a similar storm and it took forever to get anywhere with trimet. Was that 2004?

Anyway, my advice, based on experience, is to not really believe what they tell you. They may be trying as best they can but don't tell us something that isn't happening. Be honest. The Max driver this morning was telling the truth and giving us information as we sat. He said the trains were backed up from Ruby Junction to Washington Park. We would move up one station at a time and wait. He would tell us that and then say "No, He doesn't know how long we will wait".

Not very reliable. The problem with the snow and ice now is that if you have an "earth friendly" vehicle, it is so low it cannot clear the snow.
Even with chains on, I cannot get out of my driveway and down to the main road. Tonight, my daughter took me to work in their big truck with basic all weather tires that you almost need a stepladder to get in. It had no problem going anywhere. How do those all electric cars do in this weather? How much does their range go down when they run the heater and defroster (or do they have them)?

There is a time and place for both.

I highly recommend my Gremlin! Even the cops were stunned by my mad skillz yesterday. I probably pulled at least 17 cars out of danger.

I just drove loops around I-405/I-5 and over the Marquam and Fremont bridges because it was so much fun. And I finished all my shopping!

I love snow!

Oh, for heavens sake children, grow up!!!! This is the worst weather Portland has had in decades. Virtually no institution or organization in this country can afford the money and efforts to allow them to operate flawlessly during a 100 year event.

Andrew2 says "I'd have been pissed if I was delayed 30 minutes because I had to get off at Gateway and crowd onto a shuttle bus. " What a stupid, childish, immature statement. 30 minute delay....poooooor baby. We're in a frigging blizzard in an area that doesn't normally have snow. There was a shuttle bus -- rejoice and be glad.

Glad some of you are getting around.... but tri-met has rerouted all buses out of Hillsdale onto Barbur and Vermont... I have more than 3 feet of snow in my front yard and driveway... drifts in excess of 4'. I'll see you all this spring.

No, they were just stunned that the damn thing still ran!

Hey Merkin, have you checked the Fantasy Football stats lately?????

I agree with Tdan, all I read here is whining about civic services that are among the best in the nation. Considering the amount of weather this intense that we normally get, the fact that the roads are open at all is a small miracle. Having grown up in a climate where this kind of slop was a twice annual event and generally went unnoticed unless there was over a foot of snow, some of you need to suck it up and get on with it. No one likes to look out the window the next morning and see everything they shoveled looking like you'd never touched it.

Here in Sellwood there is lots of snow and drifts several feet high. It's quite pretty. I can't open the back door. The wind knocked the bird feeder off it's hanger over in the far corner of the back yard and it appears the various power surges are an indication of problems in the area, though no failure here. It's been snowing all morning.

With rear wheel drive and no chain clearance, I'm not driving anywhere for a while. Ten years ago when I bought my car I knew there might be a winter or two I'd find myself in this situation. Of course, with local services all within walking distance and a mass transit system making every effort to keep moving, I'm not worried.

I am not complaining. I just think Trimet should be more truthful in what they say. Sure they can have problems. Just don't tell us the Max is running every 15 minutes when it is not. I believe they are doing they best they can with what they have and the circumstances. Just tell it like it is.

This is not a 100 year storm. You said it was the worst we have had in decades. Maybe two decades. I have lived here all my life and this was not abnormal in the 50's, 60's and even into the 70's. I remember it being worse with solid ice in the trees and on wires. Of course, global warming has virtually eliminated that. So far, this is similar to what we used to have years ago, not 100 years ago, although that may have been possible. I have lived in Troutdale 35 years and we would freeze with high winds every winter. We would still be driving on ice two weeks after the west side and south areas (Oswego, Milwaukie, Oregon City, etc.)had thawed out or melted after two days. We used to call those areas the "banana belt". There is a reason there is a permanent gate at the entrance to I-84 in Troutdale. It was used often in the past. There used to be a Burger King at the Flying J. It's flag would be straight due to the winds all winter. The Sandy river would freeze at Lewis and Clark Park. When it got cold in Portland, they would send the reporter out there for a live feed and show the "city" the frozen river and flag at the BK, as if it was unusual. No, that was normal back then. Melanie Wingo has been making reports from there this weekend and she is amazed at what used to be normal there.
People have short memories. I have seen ice on the Columbia a few times in that area and by Rooster Rock. I have seen pictures taken with cars on the Columbia by Jantzen Beach from the 40's era. I was not here then but it happened.
I believe it was 1979 when I went up to Hermiston in February to take delivery on a boat and we went in the Columbia to test run it by McNary Dam. It was the first day above freezing in over 6 weeks when we went there and we were dodging blocks of ice in the river as we were driving it around. They chipped the ice off the ramp in order to launch it.

I don't remember the year but it was 1969 or 1970 when we had 3+ feet of snow on New Years eve over by David Douglas High School. Not drifts, but actual snow. We were hosting a New Years Eve party and nobody could get there.

This is a bad storm and situation right now but it is not that unusual yet. Just from recent times.
Now, as long as it doesn't all melt as fast as it did in about 1964/1965 when the Willamette overflowed and flooded the Oregon City Shopping Center.

I apologize to Jimbo. I am sure he knows more than the TV stations whose meteorologists keep repeating that this is the 3rd worst storm in the measured history of Portland, and will become #2 within the next 24 hours.

And comparing Portland weather with Troutdale or the banks of the Columbia River is a brilliant use of geography to prove his point.

A thousand pardons.

Well, actually, if you look at the tri-met website, they are being totally honest. They are showing the delays when the cables were frozen. They are telling you that buses are behind, or cancelled, etc.

Really, people here actually have it so good that when it's not perfect, a segment of them start complaining. And, it's usually the same people who complain about taxes, and government "waste". So would they be willing to pay for all the equipment and manpower to react to these very infrequent situations in the way they see fit to?

I doubt it.

I wonder how buns and skybill are doing on I-84.

If you are familiar with transit systems in other cities, you already know that Tri-Met is way better than 90% of the others.

TriMet now has a map up of what routes are running. I heard earlier tonight that these are the only routes TriMet will run all day Tuesday.

Yes, it's much scaled back from regular service and if you live anywhere outside of NW, N, inner NE, inner SE Portland, or along the MAX Blue Line, chances are you're probably toast. However, this is a lot more service than one can get from an airline, Amtrak, Grehyound, or I-84 between Troutdale and Hood River right now. (Yes, I realize I'm comparing local transit service to intercity service. However, I am saying that at least some local service is still available, versus intercity services which are practically shut down and/or what is running is sold out.)

The TriMet bashers over the years have been SUV drivers. If TriMet was to shut down overnight pouring tens of thousands of more motorists on our freeways, those same TriMet bashers would be whining the loudest about the additional traffic.


TriMet is a very respectable government agency . . . still, a close watch on them is needed. The WES troubles are interesting, but I've got to hand it to TriMet in strong arming the contractor into building those railcars. Its almost as if they had no choice -- railroad rules are more strict than light rail rules. I'm willing to sweep the WES railcar builder problems under the rug. I think TriMet came out ahead in that poker game.

I suspect part of the WES issue is that TriMet was trying to find a US manufacturer to build the cars. Most of the MAX equipment and also the current generation of streetcars have been built by foreign concerns.

As far as MAX performance in this weather, these kind of storms are not frequent enough to justify the expense of heated track switches all along the MAX line which is what would be needed to prevent these issues. The freight railroads came to the same conclusion which is why Amtrak was similarly affected. I listened to the various railroad frequencies most of Saturday and they were spending all their time trying to dig out and unfreeze switches. Heck even the Interstate bridge froze up today. Cut TriMet some slack, their infrastructure has held up better than most everything else out there during this storm.

I think it's working just fine. The occasional MAX outage is a bummer, but they get on it with shuttles, and it's not all that often.

The kids used Tri-Met yesterday to go all over the place. A bit slower than usual, but no worries otherwise.

Lots of people don't have it so good.

It's easy to be critical from the comfort of an armchair with a fire crackling and a hot chocolate nearby, looking out on this winter wonderland. But here goes a little critique from my microcosm of the city.

One part of the Tri-Met service issue is probably due to a lack of coordination with the city of Portland. The city should have prioritized the most heavily traveled Tri-Met bus routes for snow plowing. While traveling outside yesterday and earlier today between SE Portland and downtown, I noted a couple of strange things:

1) Why is a local service street with no bus service like SE Crystal Springs blvd. plowed better than a major neighborhood collector street like SE Woodstock Blvd (2 bus routes on it at spots) or Milwaukie avenue?

2) Heavily used SE 39th avenue between Holgate blvd and I-84 has only one usable lane in each direction rather than two. This resulted in traffic back ups for scores of blocks, impeding buses and cars alike.

A good question to ask, and find an answer to, is what other cities -- with lots of snow and ice, do to prevent their light rail train switches from seizing up in these weather conditions? Any transit experts in Vancouver, Canada or Northern Europe?

I wonder how well the Portland streetcar is faring in this weather? It might be our future in the urban transportation game. Overall, I think Tri-Met and the City of Portland are doing a superb job considering the unusual Siberian type weather we are experiencing this week in Portland.

1) Why is a local service street with no bus service like SE Crystal Springs blvd. plowed better . . .

Knowing someone who is a truck driver for the city of Portland, I can very easily imagine him going off his route just a bit to plow the street he lives on.

In The O today, it says TriMet cut back on number of operating routes severely yesterday. One driver sat in his bus for 10 hours waiting for help to get unstuck. On the other hand, TriMet officials were giving stranded passengers rides in cars.

Also in a guest article, TriMet explained the WES situation -- they decided it was a calculated risk to proceed, sort of like the underground/Zoo elevator or light rail. Imagine if they didn't splurge for the tunnel, would west side light rail run in bad weather?

I have a friend of over 30 years who has been with Washington's Dept. of Transportation for some 14 years now. He's one of those guys whose been working 12 hours on and 12 hours off for the better part of a week now.

These people are the unsung heroes during times like these. The biggest problem they have to deal with is idiots who can't drive in this stuff. He has told me many a horror story of near misses and some fatalities because people simply aren't paying attention.

He has had to run for his life while being a flagger, jumped on the hood of a car from a standing position to avoid injury, painted many of the fog lines and placed many of those dots in the lanes in the middle of night with people zipping past him at 60 miles an hour, even though he has 4 large WDOT vehicles with lights flashing and signs posted for his protection.

He'll be the first to tell you they can do better, but with budgets being cut they do what they can under extremely difficult circumstances.

Be grateful these people are willing to give up family time during the holiday's for your safety.