From the Associated Press:

Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing farmers money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law. The idea was put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases emitted by belching and flatulence amounts to air pollution.

I wonder what Beano's fine is gonna be? I hope they have a sliding scale for this, Salad on the low side and chili cheese dogs with onions and sauerkraut on the high side.

This is nutty--is there any feasible way that farmers can reduce the emissions given off by their herds? Or, will these fines just turn into extra costs that get passed on to the consumer? How would environmental regulators go about measuring the emissions given off at a farm--or would they just estimate the emissions from the weight and number of animals present on the farm?

Hey Darktemper, My farts are more potent than any cow flatulance! My farts have been known to rip huge holes in my underwear! Give me a few bean burrito's at Taco Bell and I'll destroy 4 or 5 pairs of tighty whitey's!!

Well, it certainly would be an excuse for me to get rid of my herd. The problem is, a lot of folks will think the same way and get out of cattle. THAT will drive the price up.

If it wasn't for the overabundance of humans, we wouldn't have this overabundance of cows and pigs. If they're destructive to the planet, they'll have to be regulated like every other polluter, no matter how nutty it sounds. (And it does sound nutty!)

Another crock of ca-ca foisted upon us by the tree huggers.

The government would make a lot more money if they put a fine on every politician that opens their mouth.

I'm sure its all that hot air that is causing the global warming.

I'm doing my part by eating as much dead cow as I can!

The preponderence of evidence showing cows are a big factor is growing faster than you can say crock.

Besides, if cows are a major cause of greenhouse gases, curtailing it allows for the burning of fossil fuels a little bit longer. So, cows or Hummers, which will it be?

As for people who call things crock, I'll just mention the name of the greatest crock sayer of all time -- Harry Truman of Mt. St. Helens fame. 5-18-1980 RIP.

If it is indeed true, its a good reason to eat more steak!

Beef. Its whats for dinner!

See, using that logic I could be called an environmentalist!!

Okay, in return for all the beef you can eat, you'll buy a hybrid, hmm?

I sold my Tahoe today and drive a diesel Rabbit pickup mostly now.

.....If it wasn't for the overabundance of humans....

Seems like the simple solution is get rid of all the people. Can we get congress working on that solution? Maybe a global summit to discuss implementation of a worldwide final solution. Solves the man made global warming issue, restores wild grasslands, wetlands, and restores endangered species naturally. Seems like a win for all and a vindication of environmentalism. Maybe a TV show, EXTREME ENVIRONMENTALISM-WORLD EDITION. Each week, the human population of a continent is totally eradicated....

Otherwise, a longer term solution is sterilize everyone at birth, and require all people to live in mud huts with thatched roofs, and grow organic gardens to support a vegan lifestyle until the last human dies out. However,I am concerned about billions of open cooking fires spewing smoke into the air causing problems for people with breathing problems............

Better still, Concentrate on issues you can actually control..... Not a meat eater? Fine, don't eat it. Can afford a hybrid, and find it suits your needs? Great, buy one. Want to use your income to install thermal heating, solar panels, and a windmill to meet your energy needs? If it fits your budget, go for it. You do what you can, but don't cram it down others throats because they can't participate for whatever reason.

So, will the new CAR TSAR require auto companies to put the 3 cylinder Geo back in production, for those who won't be able to afford 40K for an electric? Get rid of some of the comfort high profit add ons that do nothing to enhance economy? Mandate fuel standards AND profitability?

skep, did you buy the Tahoe because you NEEDED it, or WANTED it? Does the wabbit suit your needs? Do you feel the change improved the world for everyone else? People tend to buy their wants rather than actual needs. Want to start a list of items that people don't actually need?
How much of this stuff ends up as eventual trash?
How many people buy a newer version of a computer and throw out a perfectly good working one? How about an electronic gadget that needs a ten dollar part but the labor cost is several hundred more than you can purchase a new one? How many automobiles wind up in the junkyard because a relatively minor part fails, but the repair costs more in labor than the value of the vehicle, or the budget of the owner?

Sometimes it seems someone signed us up for THE ENVIRONMENTAL CAUSE OF THE MONTH CLUB.

I'm doing all I CAN do, and then some. Any more, mandated or otherwise forced, will be a hardship.
I'm here 50-60 years or so, the world has been here long before and will be long after. So can I be comfortable, and responsible without outside pressure that I might not be doing enough to suit others?


COW FARTS???..... Who will regulate wild deer farts? Oh that's right, wild animals are exempt from regulation.... (BTW they shit next to protected waterways)

No matter what is implemented, it will never be good enough.

So who was responsible for the global warming that allowed tropical vegetation to flourish in the northern latitudes long before humans existed?

When the earth gets stressed, it cures itself.
Do what works best to make YOUR life pleasant.

skep, did you buy the Tahoe because you NEEDED it, or WANTED it? Does the wabbit suit your needs? Do you feel the change improved the world for everyone else?

Wanted it. Yes. Yes.

No matter what is implemented, it will never be good enough.

Actually, it can slow down the destruction until we can come up with solutions to slow it down further.

When the earth gets stressed, it cures itself.

Actually, evidence shows the planet can't get cure itself anymore by itself.

Do what works best to make YOUR life pleasant.

This is why we're where were at today. Everybody has to change their lifestyles just a bit. Eventually individual excess usage of the earth's natural resources will be deemed selfish.

Population control is an excellent way to deal with out problems, but unfortunately, countries with stable populations are punished economically. That'll have to change.

I don't think deer and most other animals all together cause as much enviornmental havoc as cows and pigs. Its food factories that is the problem.

> How many people buy a newer version of a computer and throw out a perfectly good working one?

This reminds me about something that occurred to me last night: There are a lot of parallels between the way that the American (and world population) has discovered computers and the Internet in this decade to the way that many Americans discovered the automobile in the prosperous decade following WWII. I think that these parallels extend to the environmental impacts of computers and the Internet. The hazards of disposing of "obsolete" computer hardware are just starting to creep onto the radar. However, nobody is yet talking about enormous amount of electricity that is used by all of the servers and telecom infrastructure equipment that has to run 24/7 in order for the Internet to work. That amount of electricity must be in the hundreds of millions, if not billions of watts!

However, nobody is yet talking about enormous amount of electricity that is used by all of the servers and telecom infrastructure equipment that has to run 24/7 in order for the Internet to work.

That's true, but I think it is offset by the substancial carbon savings the internet provides vs the old way of information sharing (IE: face to face meetings and physical delivery of documents).

....(BTW they shit next to protected waterways)....

And you know what? The fish shit IN the protected waterways.

Darn fish.

Speaking of shit in waterways, remember when Bush (it was VP Cheney actually) lifted waterway restrictions on the Klamath river?? Tens of thousands of stinking dead salmon. For the most part, scientists DO know what they're talking about. Its the ignorant crock sayers that are full of crap.

no win argument. So, you do what you can, I'll do what I can. Just don't bust my ass because you think(GENERIC YOU, not anyone specific)"I'm not doing enough" to save the world, otherwise,I'll say hell with it and do nothing. Kind of like "minimum donations". Took a group of new hotwheels cars to a toys for tots a couple of years ago and because each individual toy was less than ten dollars they didn't accept them. Now, they get NOTHING from me. seems stupid.

Tom Friedman, in his brilliant new book, "Hot, Flat and Crowded" uses a wonderful analogy. We are all in a car called planet Earth driving very quickly in a very deep fog toward a very steep (and fatal) cliff. It doesn't matter who caused the cliff, and it doesn't matter where along the road we're on that cliff is. Since we know the cliff is there, but we have no idea exactly where that cliff is, doesn't it behove all of us in the car to SLOW DOWN NOW?????

(And Roger, your last two posts demand that we NEVER let you drive the car, and we NEVER listen to you about directions or speed. Maybe you could curl up in the trunk for the next twenty years where we don't have to listen to you. You'll know when we find the cliff.)

At least you guys live in a place where these things tend to be discussed/debated. You could live in Arizona where the attitude is pretty much that we have plenty of water and electricity and I'll drive as fast and far as I want. Meanwhile our snowpack is shrinking whether caused by global warming or not. Maybe it's just a hundred year drought? Lakes Powell and Mead aren't filling up past 50%. One would think that water conservation would be a huge deal here simply because it makes sense. Almost nobody talks about conservation. Eventually we'll get to a point of zero sum gain on the water issue. (The edge of the cliff.) Then we'll all move to Oregon. Unless, of course, you wouldn't mind if we build a big canal that runs from the Dalles through Oregon and Nevada so we can borrow a little water. We'll pay you back with some solar energy.

Tdanner, I don't think there was ever a time, you had a comment about one of my posts where you didn't make some acid laced comment. Since you have taken to accept being the generic "YOU" I referred to, I would love to let loose a barrage pertaining to your self-rightiousness.

Instead, Best wishes to you for the holiday season, and hoping the New Year is full of good things.