Just got in!!

OBAMA WINS.

Here's the thing. I spent some time in the car listening to KXL. Lots of "hope we can keep Obama in check" talk, as if there was some basic problem that prevented a Republican win, and not some core systemic issue.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Thing is, this election is a big FUCK YOU to many years of trickle-down, exploit the little guy, divide us, politics. Bush was the pinnacle of that. The Republicans had control of the whole she-bang, and they fucked it up huge.

That's why we have the black guy, with a Muslim name as President. That's just how badly misaligned Republicans are with the needs of ordinary Joe and Jane American.

I'm happy tonight. I'm also under the full realization that tomorrow morning the attacks begin.

The right, who can't seem to accept any real fault on their part, will start trying to marginalize this on every radio station, news paper, tv and Internet site they have a voice on. They will say Obama is really a moderate at heart and that means he needs to reach across the asile to prevent the extreme left, who elected him, from ruining the country, etc...

(yeah, that shit was already on the radio)

So it starts. Now, we've got a clear shot and we are gonna have to just keep the pressure up to undo the long list of shit we've had to endure for way too long.

I'm stoaked people! Totally stoaked. Now ordinary Americans are in the drivers seat. We put this guy here, $85 at a time, over and over and over.

To you righties:

You took it right square in the sack TWICE! Got your asses kicked and now the Republican party is probably a third smaller now. The real morons are gone, leaving the 23 percenters and decent Republicans to squabble over where the party goes.

I'm absolutely not gonna play nice on this stuff. Neo-conservative economic policies have impacted a lot of my adult life. Fuck that.

Did I mention, FUCK THAT!

It's time to change it up. No REPUBLICAN has the high ground right now. The people have spoken LOUD AND CLEAR ON THIS.

Republicans fucked up the nation and now it's time for those of us, who voted for change, to get after it and start fixing it again.

We will end a Republican war. We will end Republican economic socialism for corporations and wealthy people. We will end the battle over health care. We will end gender discrimination. We will end the bad perception our nation has in the world.

We will rebuild our infrastructure. We will build new jobs. We will empower people. We will work together to work off huge Republican debt.

We will start working to kick some serious American ass.

From now on, it's not a given that the same old same old, tired and largely accepted Republican truisms are true.

It's not a good idea to send our jobs away, so big business can make more profit.

We need to regulate business, so it works for us and adds value to our society.

The living wage is not $6 something per hour.

Nobody needs to lose their home, over a trip to the emergency room, like I did.

Our kids will understand what the New Deal was, and why it mattered, and how badly we got hurt thinking we didn't really need it.

No divisive, bull-shit, cow-shit, "nothing else matters" issue is worth the pain and suffering we have put ourselves and the world through for these last 8 years.

That means we can talk like humans about abortion, gay rights, guns, god and other things.

On that NOTE. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. We are Americans, not warriors for Christ, and we CAN GET ALONG.

(Jesus, I've wanted to say that for some time, and now I get to say it with some serious fucking authority.)

BTW: This is your thread man. Post up some stuff and get yourself some gratification!!

Dear Herb:

I know you're still lurking. Your team took it in the sack big time tonight. BIG TIME!! You deserve every loss from the President all the way down to the city council positions and I hope your ilk remains a small vocal minority as it deserves to be (which is damn generous of me to say). Good riddance.

Obama scored big with the younger voters and with the minorities.

The reason is that the younger voters are all part of the "Me" generation. What will the government GIVE me. How can I get something for nothing. The government should support me. Me, me, me.

Thanks God that the senate didn't get to the super majority that everyone predicted.

That should keep him pretty much in check, which is a good thing.

Although I sure some of his socialist programs with make it through. Hopefully not many though.

When he falls flat on his inexperienced face, please allow me to be the first to say "I told you so".

Deane: Remember those conversations we had here? All those discussions about how I didn't understand how complex the world was, that I would learn how things work, how I was a Marxist!

Well, clearly the higher ground doesn't go to you on these things. I hope you and yours are well, of course, but you have to accept that getting your ASS KICKED THIS HARD, THIS QUICK means we Obama supporters are one hell of a lot closer to right than you ever were here.

Herb: It's over buddy. Just like I said. Nobody is willing to go the distance you are. When you wrote "nothing else matters" you were dead ass wrong. Wrong huge!

Took it in the freaking sack, twice in a row, wrong.

David, Sohran, Johnny, and others: It's time to reconsider a lot of things.

To all: Reconsider, JUST LIKE YOU ASKED US TO DO FOR 8 FUCKING YEARS.

My answer, along with many other American Patriots tonight:

No. Not anymore. Not this time, not today.

This time must be different. --Obama, just now on TV.

It will be different, and that's going to be good.

I'm going off to yell, drink some stuff, maybe do some other stuff, and PARTY HUGE!!

It’s not a good idea to send our jobs away, so big business can make more profit. A companies #1 priority is to its shareholders. Right, wrong or indifferent, that's the way it is.

We need to regulate business, so it works for us and adds value to our society. Socialism at its finest. The consumer will regulate the businesses.

The living wage is not $6 something per hour. OK. Increase it to $10+ per hour. Do you really think that the manufacturers and producers and retailers are just going to absorb those extra costs? Hell no they aren't. They are going to PASS IT ON TO THE CONSUMERS. Everything is going to cost more. It's a vicious circle.

Nobody needs to lose their home, over a trip to the emergency room, like I did. Agreed. But socialized medicine is not the answer. Health Care insurance is a necessity, but it is not a right. Somebody is going to pay for it, but it should not be the taxpayers.

Our kids will understand what the New Deal was, and why it mattered, and how badly we got hurt thinking we didn't really need it.

No divisive, bull-shit, cow-shit, "nothing else matters" issue is worth the pain and suffering we have put ourselves and the world through for these last 8 years. Yeah, let's negotiate with the terrorists. If we are nice to them, they won't want to kill us anymore.

That means we can talk like humans about abortion, gay rights, guns, god and other things. Agreed

On that NOTE. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. We are Americans, not warriors for Christ, and we CAN GET ALONG. You are right. It used to be and was founded on Judeo-Christian principals, but it sure as hell isn't any more, unfortunately.

Its over, this election. No more crap ass political adds on TV. No more high strung Neo Cons everywhere sounding like a colicy baby.

At least I am not going to hear much more about Bill Ayers or Rev Wright.

Time to move on and find out what ' Yes we can " actually means.....

No more crap ass political adds on TV.

That's the best part of the whole thing!

"A companies #1 priority is to its shareholders. Right, wrong or indifferent, that's the way it is."

Oh this is great!

Listen, Skybill. You are right. A company is beholden to it's shareholders. No question.

However, companies EXIST BECAUSE WE LET THEM. WE LET THEM BECAUSE WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH THEM.

If that changes, we change the rules, and the companies then adapt. The dollar is NOT the ultimate determining factor in these things.

Markets are not perfect.

This is the United States of America, not the Corporate States of America.

It's not socialist to expect Americans to be able to receive a livable wage for their hours worked. It's not socialist to expect corporate CEO's to leave pension funds alone. It's not socialist to regulate business so that it performs for us in a healthy way.

Letting multi-national companies, export our jobs sucks. This practice did deliver the max value to the shareholders. No question on that.

What it also did was destroy lives, one industry at a time. What it did was sell our future so that those shareholders can see profit in the now.

FUCK THAT.

Trust me, when I say a majority of Americans now totally see this for what it is; namely, selling our future for that quarterly growth in the now, while also taking those quarterly profits and gambling them away, leaving us in a crisis, while holding out their hands for ANOTHER BAG of money to play with, risk with, and let us suffer their losses with.

No thanks.

If it's socialist to give some breaks to the lower 75 percent of us, then it's absolutely socialist to go the other damn way!

I was here in the 80's, watching manufacturing leave the region, one shop at a time, until only a couple were left. I was here watching as people were downsized, found out their pensions were not gonna pay because the were looted to prop up a poorly run company, whose obligation to the shareholders justified fucking over those that built the wealth in the first place.

Sorry man. Things are gonna change. It won't hurt anything, but a bit of pride.

When he falls flat on his inexperienced face, please allow me to be the first to say "I told you so".

Like McSame would have done any better. And if you say otherwise your a liar! He/McSame KNOWS nothing about being President either. That shit is old Sky....

Skybill,

Just take note. This victory, this change in the landscape, took more than lefties and liberals. It took more than young voters.

It took the votes of many Independents and even some Republicans.

You are so wrong about "me, me, me" and "socialism."

You need to wake up to the reality of the American process.

You need to wake up to the damage that extreme conservatism has caused and to the fact that no President can ever fall flatter on his face than George W. Bush. Period.

I honestly feel sorry for you. Clearly you are so consumed with what I don't have a clue, but until you grasp that your own personal view of things is so out of whack that if you keep letting it eat away at you, you'll end up sick.

Wake up and smell the roses big fella. Tonight America made a turn for the better. In time even those like you will realize it.
Until then ...

The reason is that the younger voters are all part of the "Me" generation. What will the government GIVE me. How can I get something for nothing. The government should support me. Me, me, me.

Well, clearly better ME than you. We now REALLY know who wants new fresh ideas in DC and who wants to keep the same old politicans in DC now, don't we, eh?

Its ironic how the "me" generation selflessly gave nearly a billion of their own money to rid DC of old coots.

I absolutely grant you that Skybill. However, you do need to grant the same in like kind.

We've tried it the other way for 30 years or so. It didn't work, we are screwed and we need to do something different.

So, you totally have the right to say, I told you so. But to get there, you've got to see it actually happen, or it's a false thing.

That means working with this administration. That means allowing all views a shot at debate and it means dealing with the decisions and giving it the same effort you gave Republican neo-conservative policies.

That's what it takes to say I told you so.

Anything else is just sour grapes, obstructionist, making sure government can't work, so that you can say, government can't work.

That doesn't play anymore.

Now, it's yes we can. Additionally, it's yes we will, just like every other time we've been tested as a nation.

We are all highly likely to be around, so we will get to see if I told you so makes any sense.

Maybe it will. I hope it doesn't. I realize it just might.

I'm gonna try to make it work though. All I've seen with Republicans is more and more risk pushed my way, more pressure, less value per hour worked and an increasing amount of social intervention in my life from others who think they are somehow entitled to make my moral choices for me.

On that latter point, I am absolutely, completely, on the verge of militant about being done with that. Nobody is telling me how to run my bedroom, which faith to believe, what my wife's rights are, that my gay friends are somehow required to live a lie, and that I need to hate some people for who they are, or what they believe.

It's just not ok. Never was, but now it's backed by some teeth! We have a house to get into order, and that matters more than squabbling over that crap. Most Americans agree!

(god damn it, that feels good to say)

On the other things, I'm wide open to some leadership and new ideas. And I hope they come from robust debate that includes many different viewpoints. (we get the really good ideas from that)

I'm absolutely not gonna tolerate, or even support, continuing to do the same things we do economically. They don't work. People are harmed, over exploited, and struggling way more than they need to be.

As for the taxes?

Just remember how much Republicans spent and gambled away, when and if your tax burden goes up. That is the reality.

Good god, I get to say "Tax and Spend, high risk Republicans!" Sweet! It's real. People voted, and it's actually on the table now.

Republicans deregulated things, believing the drive to enrich the shareholders ruled all, that it was perfect, that giving into and feeding greed would settle all.

It does not, cannot, didn't and won't.

So now, we go back to a healthy realization that Governments make Markets. Companies exploit those markets to realize a profit.

People, ordinary people, SELL their services to these companies, in the hopes they too will make a profit.

Trading dollars for hours is compensation. Being able to build a life, retire and not shoulder so much risk is PROFIT.

We invest when we can (younger) so that we have it when we can't. (older)

My father in law lives with us, has dignity because I'm shouldering that burden in my good years. The company he gave his good years to, paid him a decent wage, then squandered his pension dollars.

He can't give the years back, so why should they be able to put his pension at risk, just so the shareholders and executives see their profit and bonus?

And it goes on and on and on. 30 years of this shit. Probably gonna take 10 to really get it under control.

Guess we get to see what four gets us.

So yeah. You can absolutely say I told you so, but you do also need to give it a go, just like Republicans asked everybody to do. You know, hard work, sacrifice and all that?

Well, that's the price. Meet it, and you've got your entitlement. Don't and you don't.

That is how it's gonna go for a while. Just dealing as good as I was dealt, and anybody with any measure of backbone will do exactly the same and see just where we can take this nation.

...watching manufacturing leave the region, one shop at a time...

You want to know a big reason for that?

Unions.

Unions make it hard to fire people who don't perform. If you've got a bunch of lazy slobs that can't be fired, what incentive is there to do a good job? Unions used to have a place until organized crime took them over.

Their basic premise is good but they have outlived their usefulness.

...out their pensions were not gonna pay because they were looted to prop up a poorly run company... Agreed. And the people who did the looting should be prosecuted and jailed.

Pension/retirement funds/401K's etc should be a 1Way flow of money until you are ready to withdraw it. The depositing company should have NO access to it once it has been deposited in your account.

You can't steal the great, positive feeling. I hope we all come together and move our country forward.

Bill: Get on board. I'll help lift you up.

younger voters are all part of the "Me" generation.

What about DUHbya and his clan of idiots? Those asshole are/where ALL about what they can get. They got it alright and they FUCKED America one dollar at a time!
Talk about ME ME... DUHbya and Co. are poster children for that shit!

The "me generation" will be paying the bills for old farts like Bill, Herb, and DJ.

We witnessed history tonight. My kids got to experience one of those events that 20 years from now they will be able to remember where they were on this evening. My 13 year-old daughter slowly starting to realize the magnitude of what her parents were watching. My 8 year-old son running up and down the street with sparklers in hand, yelling "Obama won", then shouting with glee as he checked the results on the electoral map, not knowing that what he was seeing was his parents actually regaining some hope for their future in this country. After 8 disastrous years and the prospect of 4 more, the promise for a decent future for all of us seemed shaky at best.

Until 8:00 tonight anyway.

After 8 very long years, I am so ready to put all of the failures of the Bush administration behind us. I can't wait to leave all of these to the historians to examine and sift through while trying to locate a single positive to W's legacy:

"we're gonna smoke him out"
"Mission Accomplished"
"we don't torture"
Abu Ghraib
Plame-gate
Halliburton
Axis of evil
WMD's
Cheney/Ashcroft/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz
Katrina/"heckuva job Brownie"
Karl Rove
tax cuts for the rich
"you're with us or you're against us"
shock and awe
700 billion dollar economic bailout
economic collapse
decimation of wealth
a stock market lower than when he took office
job losses
$4 gallon gas

Obama may be inexperienced in his executive qualifications, but since George W. Bush lowered the bar to unfathomable depths in his 8 years that what maybe what he lacks in inexperience he will make up for with intelligence and counsel to be more than up to the task of clearing the bar W. left behind. Better yet, the bar W. dropped along the wayside.

Bill: Get on board. I'll help lift you up.

Thanks!

I'll get over the disappointment of having a Democrat in the White House. Just like I did when slick won.

Fortunately, the President doesn't have as much "power" as all the campaigners want to believe so I really don't expect to see massive changes right away and, as others have mentioned, probably not even in the 4 years he'll be in the White House.

Now, if the Senate had gone to be equal to or more than 60-40. We’d all be f&#ked huge. There'd be no stopping the Nancy Pelosi's in D.C.

..old farts like Bill..

Careful there now. I resemble that remark!

Like their was no stopping the asshole DUHbya and his band of idiots?
Sky... Your probably a smart man on some plain but at this your not. Thinking that what happened the last 8 years is okay? You've got some seriously soul searching to do....
WOW!

No it's not UNIONS.

I've been on both sides of that.

The core problem is this:

Take an industry, any industry. Within it, we have union and non-union manufacturing, all located here in the US.

Both compete for workers with skill. Honestly, what happens is good workers get good comp plans, and sub-standard workers don't. If the manufacturing is located here, then competition will play out and all will be fine.

Lots of ways this works. Union shop might make higher quality goods, sell for a higher margin, and or satisfy a niche market. Non-union might go for the more mainstream, but operate at a smaller margin.

Either can innovate to compete as well. Maybe pay union wages, but invest in technology to require fewer people, vs lower investment, but more people.

All of this is fine and good work environments can be had both ways. Some people don't want to do union, others do.

The key thing is not all people will go for a union!

Before we sent jobs overseas, we ended up with union shops setting a good standard for labor. Others would pick and choose to compete, and that competition did happen, and everything we needed to get made, got made.

Most everybody could care for their family on a working wage job.

Now, take that across the industries, and you have working America, pre neo-con economics.

So then, we decide to allow jobs to be shifted over seas.

Take one industry and permit this. What happens is that entire industry moves off shore, where labor is cheaper.

We see tons of people with no work. They take other manufacturing jobs and maybe no big harm is done right?

Note, at this time the outsourcers make huge profits! This is attractive, of course, so everybody wants to do it.

Now, industry by industry this is done. Suddenly we don't make anything and profits run high!!

Those workers now have to take lower paying jobs because they have no other jobs suitable for their skills to go to.

It's that or re-train right?

So then, these lower wage people can't afford American made products any more, and the cycle continues until we end up with China and Wal*mart.

We have to buy cheap ass shit these days (well most of us), because we don't make anything and the wages we make reflect that!

Before we let this cycle happen, a living wage paid for living wage goods. This occured because our manufacturing was done here and the value inherent in that made for a nice profit for the business owner and a solid wage and retirement for the worker.

Now none of that applies.

You can track this crap right back to Nixon / Reagan. That is when it started.

Now is when it's gonna start to end.

I don't know if we can get those jobs back. Probably not. But we can build new jobs and keep those here and rebuild our own self-sustaining economy.

With that will come good wages, retirement and life will be a whole lot better for most people, willing to go out and do the work.

The key things here are:

1. outsourcing made huge profits for the companies who did it

2. this broke unions

3. diminished unions lowered wage expectations across the board

4. many of us became dependant on cheap ass goods

5. these things set the expectation that it COSTS TOO MUCH to make things here, when the reality is the profit margin is just not as high here, but we are perfectly capable of making things here, using them here and paying for them here.

We always are capable! Any nation that does this is capable.

We are in this cycle, not because it cost too much to make things here, but because really greedy business men figured out they could make more, faster by fucking us over.

That's the truth on that. Sucks, but that is how it is and that is one area where delivering maximum value to the shareholders absolutely needs to be regulated.

This is why we are in the freaking mess we are in!

If we don't make anything, we are not building wealth here, and without that, we cannot pay our debts and without that the dollar drops in value and the cycle goes on and on and on.

Fix that and business owners will still make a nice profit, but we won't be stuck in this lowest common wage have to buy cheap stuff cycle any more.

Unions have absolutely nothing to do with that. A lot of people think they do, because they buy the lie about cost of manufacture, and ignore the reality of what outsourcing does to us.

(and they do this because our corporate biased media spends a LOT of time telling us this is good)

Look at the markets. They don't tell us how good WE are doing, only how the very wealthy are doing!

So, if it's good for "the markets" then it's really just good for the wealthy, with the implication that it TRICKLES DOWN to us!

That's now bullshit. Known shitty economic policy.

Time to start to fix that.

We need to focus on how WE are doing. That's Joe and Jane American. If WE are doing well, then both WE and BUSINESS will be doing well, and that's where things need to be.

Why?

Because when we transfer wealth to rich fuckers, they keep it! Hell, I would keep it, wouldn't you?

Damn right you would.

When we transfer wealth to not-so rich fuckers, they spend it on goods, services and START SMALL BUSINESSES.

I totally want the latter, and could give two shits about the former.

Why?

Because I'm not a rich-wealthy fucker, and am not likely to be, JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LIVING RIGHT NOW.

This action creates economic growth! New smaller businesses make new products, services, employ people and move money around. People have money to spend, and that MEANS THEY CAN AFFORD THOSE GOODS AND SERVICES!

Duh!

That is how our economy used to work. It worked GREAT, until we allowed big business to break it for max value to their shareholders.

I work for small business. It's tough. I used to have my own small business, but health care fucked that over.

It's tough for us to compete with China, where quality of life and a communist government delivers labor to us on the cheap! We don't want to compete with that.

We want to make stuff here, to sell to people here, so we all get paid and can care for our kids, buy stuff, retire and enjoy our lives.

The only ones that don't want us to do this are the rich fuckers WHO WILL KEEP THE MONEY AND ASK FOR MORE.

I was in the room, watching with the kids. They are hopeful. They really didn't like Bush.

We are happy that maybe good things will happen.

We think Obama is strong, smart and capable. We like his family, we like his kids, and think it's just amazing that this happened like it did.

Unity...

Well, here's something. For me personally, I think looking to the past is good. There are good ideas there, from all sides.

The world has moved on, we must change, we will change.

That's gonna take new ideas FROM EVERYBODY.

It's also gonna take not assuming things are true, or right, or the only way, because this vote, these times, this mess clearly tells us they are not.

There are ways to lift everybody up. I want us to find them.

I'm done for a bit.

Need to enjoy, relax, and then see what happens.

...that my gay friends are somehow required to live a lie

It's just not ok. Never was, but now it's backed by some teeth! We have a house to get into order, and that matters more than squabbling over that crap. Most Americans agree!

Actually I'd argue with the "Most Americans Agree" statement.

In all the states where a gay marriage ban amendment was on the ballot, the measures passed overwhelmingly.

EVEN in CALIFORNIA. So, I don't think that "most" Americans support it.

My father is a DIEHARD Conservative and Obama's speech brought a tear to his eye. That's big... VERY big... Didn't vote for him but lots of RESPECT!

Trixter, I listened to it too. Good speech.

It almost seemed to me like he's swinging more to the center than he was originally.

Center is good. Left is not.

He may be realizing that he won't get anything extremely radical pushed thru the senate and congress, which is a good thing.

Here's something I don't understand;

Every time I bring anything up about guns and gun control, I get lots of comments about how they it is more likely some one will use them to commit suicide.

But then WA puts up an assisted suicide bill and it passes overwhelmingly. (And of course, OR already has one)

Whats up with that?

It's OK for a Doctor to kill you, but not OK to blow your brains out in the bath tub?

Dead is dead. Doesn't matter how you get there.

Center is good. Left is not.

EXTREME RIGHT isn't either and America showed you tonight. If YOU listened to his speeches instead of listening to FAUXNews he was NEVER radical left. That's what LimBLAH and Insannity want you to think. Socialist? Where in the hell did that come from? EXTREME RIGHT talk radio/TV! Trying to scare the shit out of you thinking that he is going to take YOUR guns away from you, YOUR God and let Gays run America. Get real! Just like the EXTREME LEFT saying that DUHbya was the new Hitler. DUHbya ain't smart enough and NEVER will be...

No problem with gun owners blowing their brains out. We have a problem with children blowing their brains out with their parents's guns. If this cannot be stopped their parents and gun show safety officials standing by (never mind a room full of gun experts), then control needs to be taken out of your hands.

Unlike fetuses, uzi-killed babies are apparently low on the priority list for gun owners.

While I'm sure Bill and others here are very careful with their guns, but I'm thinking even under the best of conditions, needless deaths occur, for example, the child of the off-duty sheriff deputy in Clark county not too long ago.

Like I say, lets collect rifles instead. The longer the barrel, the better.

"It's OK for a Doctor to kill you, but not OK to blow your brains out in the bath tub?

Dead is dead. Doesn't matter how you get there."

The amount of potential suicide victims that are talked down is documented. Perhaps if someone contemplates suicide and gets two other people to agree with their decision, blowing their brains out in the privacy of their own home if outside the city limits (discharging a firearm inside city limits is usually against the law) and law enforcement is notified in advance and arrangements to clean up the mess are arranged for, you could get a ballot measure passed to allow it and force insurance companies to pay off life insurance as well.

But I doubt it.

Bill, you may find that Barack Obama is a surprise. He is a hard working wonky centrist that was packaged slightly left to grab Democrats. Once the primaries were over, he was a naturally middle of the road populist. He was simply painted further left by the Republicans. If you go through his record since he emerged in Illinois, you will find a whole lot of centrism, cooperation and fiscal responsibility.

Just because he firmly and rightly believed that Iraq was a foolish war does not mean he wears love beads. The people who serve in our military and our many returning Veterans just gained their strongest ally since Dwight D. Eisenhower. He will prove it.

Just because he consistently votes to fund things like schools and science, or advocates for our universities to produce more college graduates, or calls for conservation and community programs, or wants a G.I. Bill that means something, does not make him a tax and spend liberal. The young people of our country have been called to service in a way unseen since John F. Kennedy. They will prove it.

Just because he has a mandate for a universal health care plan and national health insurance does not make him a socialist. The quickly aging baby boomers, the soldiers with children, the disabled, and new families finally have a President who understands that preventative care, emergency surgery, or hospice should not mean losing a home or family farm to mounting hospital bills. He will prove it was a solid idea when T.R. suggested it more than a hundred years ago.

Policy is just a small part of the picture. The dream of Abraham Lincoln has finally been realized. When Teddy Roosevelt invited Booker T. Washington to the White House over a century ago, many people reacted strongly to an African-American genius being brought into that racially segregated space. When Dwight Eisenhower walked across a crowded ballroom to shake hands warmly with Jackie Robinson on live television, eyebrows arched at the audacity. The fact that we are seeing a Black man a handful of weeks away from inauguration is a tribute to the better angels of G.O.P. history.

If I were a Republican, I would embrace this moment and celebrate it. You ought to be proud of the past tradition of inclusion and the concrete steps toward equality that the party once pioneered. The work of generations reached an apex for the G.O.P. with the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Act in spite of reluctant Dixiecrats. Three years later, the Republicans let the ideologues set the agenda and great portions of America were discarded.

Seeing the powerful American story that has unfolded these past two years, a true conservative with a sense of history would be delighted. I imagine that one would also be dead set against the party ever being hijacked by socially engineered division, dirty money, incompetence and religious extremism again. Sifting through the ashes of the 43rd, Republicans may find both wisdom and a way forward.

We will all need each other for good ideas and solid reasoning. The days of blind rage, willful ignorance and partisan arguments must pass gently into this good night. As a Democrat, I pledge that I will continue to holler at my political leadership if there is so much as a hint of the old pettiness and gridlock. The best part of the next four years is that we elected him, so Obama will be there to give them an earful for us too.

Barack Obama is not a perfect man, nor will he be a perfect President, but our nation needs him right now. We may all be surprised at what potential this country has when it heals the old wounds and tackles the new challenges together. The United States of America is a brilliant idea that needs to finally be a reality. It is up to all of us.

I didn't like pep rallies in high school, and I don't like them today. I thus am approaching today's events with a sober, analytical tone.

I started by listening to today's election coverage on KUIK so that I could keep up with the local election returns as I did work around the house and sporadically checked in on the TV coverage. Even before the Oregon returns started to come in, the KUIK coverage was starting to sound like a wake. McCain was behind and eventually conceded. Republicans were losing in state-wide races. Most of the conservative-leaning ballot measures were losing. When KUIK ended its coverage at 10:00, I switched to KIRO. On that station, they were reporting that many of the more "liberal" initiatives in Washington and Seattle (like those that would raise taxes for various public works projects) are passing. Just a minute ago, I heard a commentator on that station say that some European newspapers are declaring that "Capitalism is dead."

I don't need any more "dots" to detect that some major changes are on the horizon. What I think is taking place is a "backlash" effect. I believe that the lesson to be learned here is that the danger of taking policy too far for ideology's sake is this type of backlash. I think that a transition to more dirigistic policies (i.e. more government regulation), more focus on the public sector, and eventually higher taxes to pay both for the debt debt that the government has racked up and for new services are as unavoidable as the transition to digital TV. The long range consequences of the last eight years will be that US policies end up farther to the left than they were in 2000.

Read. Understand. There are 25%ers out there who will never admit that Bush did America a complete disservice during his eight years as appointed President of the United States. I can not think of a single thing that he helped anyone but the top 5%. In one of his speeches it was the quippy little line "Both kinds of people here in this room, the haves and the have mores"

America is the culmination of Enlightenment thinking. It is a grand experiment of LIBERALISM. We are the decendants of an educated (but flawed), liberal middle class of the late 18th Century. The ugly stain on that culture was the mark of slavery. It took almost 100 years for that intolerable institution to die and another 100 for civil rights to wash away the Jim Crow laws and poll taxes that slimed post Civil War Reconstruction. Now, 40 years afterDr. King was killed. The bitterness of racial divides perhaps can be healed.

Nothing any of us can say on this board will change the minds of 25%ers. What we can change is the common goods:

Roads/bridges/levies that are structurally sound.
(Roads in Eugene are horrible largely started by a Republican mayor who slashed funding to it)(Bridge in Minneapolis... good luck with that one Norm) (Katrina, nuf said.)

Movement to a greener economy
Greener not only in an environmental sense, but for all Americans. I even include the top 5% in this equation. Now outrageous profit margins may not be the case in the next 4 years but once people get back on their economic feet. DEMAND-SIDE economic models WORK. Also this reform can lead to new jobs, industries and innovation that has separated America for so long.

I know it's a bit of a wall of text but I am so proud of the wisdom of the American people tonight. Like both candidates said, "God bless the United States." Amen. (I'm not a Bible thumper but fill-in or leave blank the God part with your belief system.)

Did you guys notice how the fivethirtyeight.com guy's projection hit it right on the money? Pretty impressive.

I sure did!
I kept going back and forth from MSNBC & fivethirtyeight all night.

Nate Silver has got a heck of a future.

Trixter,

Dont you think it is bizzare to consider whether or not Dubaya' is smart enough to be another " New Hitler".

That is kind of like saying that Saddam Hussein was as great a leader as Mother Teressa was as an administrator of a homless children's mission.

I notice today the right-wing radio hacks are carping about Obama having more money to spend, and making all kinds of excuses. Lars is in quite a tizzy also.

Makes me all giddy!

Like John McCain said on SNL...he's a real maverick, alright...a Republican without any money.

Don't know what the wrong-wingers are going to talk about for four years. At least with Clinton they had a few skeletons in the closet to try to scare the public with.

> Don't know what the wrong-wingers are going to talk about for four years.

* Obama's ties to ACORN
* Blaming Obama for "forcing" mortgage companies to lend money to low-income borrowers who couldn't afford their mortgage payments

Littlesongs: Your 11:53 pm post last night was eloquent and summarized both the evening and its significance.

The USA is in a world of hurt. Our financial system is on the verge of collapse due to the unrestrained and unsupervised greed and stupidity of WallStreet. Our youth are receiving a second class education at best in a world where only those with a first class education have a real shot at succeeding. Our medical system threatens to bankrupt anyone not wiped out by financial stupidities. We are in the midst of a millenial energy crisis. We face potential extinction if we don't get our global environmental house in order. And for the last eight years, we have lost the trust and admiration of most of the world.

Obama has offered, and we have accepted his offer, to lead during the coming years of crises...crises that in terms of the real and personal impacts for each of us, will far exceed the crisis of 9-11.

I thank him. And I offer my best hopes and best efforts that he will find a way to lead us successfully through the next few years. We are lucky to have him.

We are lucky to have him.

Yup, and even those who don't like him are lucky to have him as well. He'll save them from themselves.

I expect that the right wing will scare up some skeletons in Obama's closet soon after Jan 20th.

Rush will renew an old familiar weekly soap opera.

Clinton watch=Obama watch.

Thanks Tdanner. It means a lot coming from you. Your observations were eloquent and spot on too.

I believe that Obama will run a very disciplined administration. He insists on excellence and teamwork. This is not the scandalous leaky vessel that sailed through the 1990s, or the backstabbing soft fascism of the first eight years of this century. After two decades of hick dynasties, we all deserve much better. We could be pleasantly surprised by a law abiding leader, cabinet posts filled by competent bi-partisan people, and a new level of efficiency in government.

76 more days!

And I highly, HIGHLY, doubt there will be a blue dress or intern pizza deliverer scandal. So the right-wingers will have to find actual issues to harp about.

They are a little Tied-Up right now but they should be back shortly!