In a move of what appears to be unconsidered stupidity, this year the Radio Hall of Fame decided to open up nominations and voting to the general public.

As a result, a huge campaign by the followers of extremist right wing preacher James Dobson have managed to get him to the very top of this years list of inductees. According to the Hall, he received more than 500,000 votes.

A number of websites and organizations have sprung up to protest this induction, and to urge the HOF into returning to allowing broadcasters to honor their own...as has always been the methodology in the past.

If the HOF becomes a public popularity contest, controlled by extremists, we will never see the likes of Susan Stamberg or Dr. Don Rose nominated or elected again.

Radio should take back the Hall of Fame.

You can find links, petitions, and HOF email addresses at:

www.dumbdobson.com

>>extremist right wing preacher James Dobson

you have no clue of who and what Focus on the Family is on radio daily...take a listen once in a while and find out....this link works...

www.family.org

It doesn't matter what FOF is about. Dobson is clearly not Radio HOF material.

My goodness, who's next? Dr. Laura? Danny Bonaduce? The KFXX update guy?

I'm sure Tdanner knows enough about Dobson.

The only HOF James Dobson should be inducted to is the "Hate Hall of Fame" or perhaps the "Snake Oil Hall of Fame".

Dobson doesn't belong. If the Christian radio industry wants to set up it's own Hall of Fame then fine.

Being on a syndicated radio show by no means gives anyone instant credibility. Dobson is in a different category from what the HOF is clearly looking for.

Agreed, and I'm happy to contribute my voice to this.

Thanks for the heads up Tdanner!

Vitalogy--in his early days Dr. Dobson did some breakthru work on some childhood medical condition. He is a real Dr. and a decent radio preacher. Your liberal bias is showing again. Please tell us how you have made the world a better place for us all???regards steve

Vitalogy--in his early days Dr. Dobson did some breakthru work on some childhood medical condition. He is a real Dr. and a decent radio preacher. Your liberal bias is showing again. Please tell us how you have made the world a better place for us all???regards steve

Hey, this is Tdanner's thread and it's about how the HOF operates, not the validity of Dobson.

His supporters biased the system and that is what is wrong. 500K votes is just nuts!

Being nominated by your peers in broadcasting carries a lot more significance, and that's the point of discussion.

All of those current hall of fame members and the good standing of the list would be marginalized if we saw Dobson added this year, based on just lots of votes.

There is no need to change the rules for the HOF. And that has nothing to do with Dobson. Trust me, when I say that too. Don't like the guy and am more than happy to Dobson bash all day long.

>>how the HOF operates

interested...what are the nomination rules...can you petition your listenership as Dobson did?

>>a decent radio preacher

His PH.D is in child psychology and is often quoted as being a pastor or reverend...which he is not...just a gifted/learned communicator of family healing/helps.

Used to be, you could vote if you were a member of the museum. This year, they dropped that requirement, meaning anybody could vote and that's where I think the process is broken.

With the membership requirement in place, there was some moderate check on runaway voting. Those participating have an interest in the medium and would vote accordingly.

When it was opened up, Dobson basically then could lobby his listeners to reach his induction number, and those listeners were more likely to be just interested in seeing Dobson honored, not the medium as a whole.

This objection has nothing to do with Dobson and his political and religious views, and I support it totally.

On the matter of those views, I think Dobson should be denied just like Pete Rose was denied. Character counts and IMHO, Dobson is not of high character. Again, that's me though. My primary objection is over the process of selection. It's broken and does not give sufficient weighting to interest in the medium thus opening the door for simply paying to gain entry instead of archiving it through positive review of one's peers or very interested citizens.

Put very simply, it's a false win. Under the established rules, Dobson would have made it no where near the HOF. Crowing about it this year, and having it happen from what boils down to a bunch of ballot box stuffing just tarnishes the whole affair and that harms the image of those already in the HOF.

>>Dobson is not of high character

then black is white, Elvis is alive, and the economy is healthy...good grief...you don't know this guy for who he and his ministry/service to millions world-wide since 1977...is 30 years of daily radio helping families long enough?

What rule did dobson or his followers break. and how does he lack character like pete rose. Please be specific. Did he break a law?? or just your liberal bias. Please state your case.

The sum of James Dobson's achievments to our world is a net loss. He's a liar who makes money off the weak minded which helps boost his sick ego.

On at least two occasions, in two separate markets, Dobson's followers repeatedly lied to interviewers, and flooded focus groups they were not qualified to participate in. They lied repeatedly on questionnaires about their listening habits. Once the groups began, it became apparent that the groups were dominated by P1 listeners of Dobson, who seldom if ever listened to the stations they claimed were their favorites in screening and followup interviews. In many cases they had never listened to their reported P1 stations for moral reasons. In set of groups I conducted, 26 of the 36 participants were FOF P1s, although NONE had reported listening to any stations carrying that program. Instead, they lied about their preferred station.

In a second city a few years later, more than half the attendees (17 out of 30) reported Dobson as their favorite "jock" and FOF as their favorite program during the research session, although none of those participants had mentioned either during pre-interviews.

Both sets of research had to be scrapped and re-recruited (using a different company in each case) from scratch, costing me a great deal of time and money.

It was very clear to me that these folks had been coached to lie their way into the studies, in the hopes of skewing the results toward their agendas.

A quick google of Dobson links:
“From an ethics standpoint, mainstream medical, psychological, and mental health organizations have criticized Focus on the Family. Additionally, top academics have charged Focus on the Family with manipulating research in misleading ways. Wikipedia quoting articles in Time Magazine and American Psychiatric Association, among others.
The group supports the teaching of "traditional family values". It advocates school sponsored prayer and supports corporal punishment. It strongly opposes abortion, what it calls militant feminism, homosexuality, pornography, and pre-marital and extramarital sexual activity. In testimony before the U.S. congress, it has attempted to have all gambling in the United States outlawed.
Focus on the Family also embraces and reflects the wider political agenda of its audience, for instance promoting a religiously-centered conception of American identity and the support of Israel. The group's message has been highly controversial, and it has received a large amount of criticism. It has been a prominent supporter of intelligent design, publishing pro-intelligent design articles in its Citizen magazine and selling intelligent design videos on its website"

His stands on "intelligent" design, "pray away the gay", corporal punishment, and the concept of a christian nation make Dobson the poster boy for the radical christian right; a group I consider the American al-Quaeda --fundamentalist extremists at their worst.

"lie their way into the studies, in the hopes of skewing the results toward their agendas."

Imagine that!

I have to second the notion that the Radio Hall of Fame has turned itself into a popularity contest. This severely devalues any honor, prestige, or other weightiness that being in the Hall of Fame might have previously carried. All that being inducted into the Hall of Fame now means is that a person on the radio was able to convince a lot of people to vote for him or her; it is not a compliment or statement on any of that person's qualities or achievements as a broadcaster.

Here's a quick look at who is already in the Radio Hall of Fame.

http://www.museum.tv/rhofsection.php?page=140

Even though I dislike Rush from a sheer radio perspective he belongs in the Hall. Others on the list in most cases are no brainers.

Putting Dobson among these broadcasters does not make sense. Even some of the more conservative radio broadcasters who are on the list have earned the right to be in the Hall.

Even with Dobson's PH.D I have heard him give some of the worst parental advice and stereotypical antidotes to raising children today.

TDanner thanks for the information. Good stuff.

Fine.

I suppose this is on topic. Really, the process is in question, but it's also highlighting Dobson and his issues.

So then. Let's talk about that dominionist nut-bag Dobson.

(tdanner, please accept my apologies, but I cannot let this one pass)

And it's http://www.dumpdobson.com

Take it where it goes. I just pointed out a radio/political issue that chaffed me.... and I was in a sharing mood.

The HOF has always been a respected list of our industry's best. It's heading toward an evangelical American Idol.

Again- on topic. what rule in the RHF did dobson or his followers break. And you proved he is a devout christian.

>>The group supports the teaching of "traditional family values". It advocates school sponsored prayer and supports corporal punishment. It strongly opposes abortion, what it calls militant feminism, homosexuality, pornography, and pre-marital and extramarital sexual activity. In testimony before the U.S. congress, it has attempted to have all gambling in the United States outlawed...

such an outrage imposed on Americans...imagine.

>> dumpdobson.com

good grief...a militant gay attack on him...that's all.

>>He's a liar who makes money off the weak minded which helps boost his sick ego

and you have NEVER listened to Focus on the Family.

Oh, it's coming, trust me. And I mean about the character of Dobson.

Technically, he didn't break any rules. Again, the protest is about the change in process where non-museum members can vote for their favorites. This rule change made it possible for those interested in being in the HOF to lobby their listeners, and frankly anybody, to vote for them.

This change more or less invalidates the value of the HOF as it's no longer judged by those interested in broadcasting achievement. Now it's a popularity contest and Dobson simply pushed for every vote he could get.

It's a false win, in that he would not have otherwise been nominated for inclusion into the HOF.

We've covered that. What I'm gonna address is his character and the harm he does to people on a daily basis.

You asked to state the case, so I'm going to do exactly that.

I have listened to Dobson. I totally disagree with his stance on pretty much every issue.

However I do give credit to Dobson, he does tell a couple of funny stories about his own kids growing up that I heard, but beyond that, Dobson doesn't add any thing good to broadcasting.

So, let's start with Dobson being Anti-American. To be specific, the values he promotes are in direct contradiction with our founders.

Dobson is a dominionist.

Dominionists seek control over all the democratic institutions in this country. They want dominion over society such that they define it and their values are the official recognized values.

They do this because they believe they, alone, have a grasp on the ultimate, absolute, one, truth; namely, their faith is the right one and everybody else is wrong.

Here's a decent overview:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

The short version, and another way to look at it is Dobson is a theocrat. He believes Christ owns this nation and that we are, in fact, a Christian nation and that our law should reflect his interpetation of the Bible.

>>their faith is the right one and everybody else is wrong

well at least Dobson won't chop off your head if you don't believe

>>They want dominion over society

well it's either your way or "Dobson's" way...just a simple vision of healing families...gosh...how can that be so controversial?

False choice.

Clearly Dobson is pulling for his way period. He's a shining example of what people are talking about, when they say Christian Taliban.

True, he won't chop off heads, but he's perfectly happy legislating our choices for us. And you support the nut-bag too.

You use words like "gosh", as if this is some minor issue. It isn't.

There is a difference between TRUTH and FAITH. We call belief in god FAITH, because it's not known truth. When we understand truth, it carries some authority that is global as in we all recognize it. When we have conviction, like people of faith do, then it's a personal authority, not a global one.

It's voluntary, as in you share faith with Dobson, and agree that his values are values you want to live by.

A truth, on the other hand, is something we all live by. Murder, for example, is something we all agree is wrong. We can point to the person who no longer has the use of their life and call that a crime and pass a law to regulate that behavior.

On the other hand, pointing to the gay person and saying they are a sinner is not based on truth, only conviction and faith. Passing laws on this is passing law without any real authority.

This is what Dobson does, it's what the Taliban and other theocratic groups do. It harms people.

In fact, it could criminalize who somebody IS, and that's wrong on all levels. It's wrong on an American level.

Dobson would redefine America in the image of his faith, and make it law that we all would live by that image and be forced to share his faith, or live a lie.

Fuck that.

The only material difference between people like Dobson and the Taliban is they are nicer about it. They prefer to corrupt and consume the democratic process to reach their goals instead of using brute force terror.

"What rule did dobson or his followers break. and how does he lack character like pete rose. Please be specific. Did he break a law?? Please state your case."

Let's revisit him beating his 12 lb. dog Siggy with a belt, and his condoning physical abuse for "willful" kids.

How Obama-Critic Dobson Whipped a Mini Weiner Dog Rebellion. Literally
by Troutfishing
Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 06:38:47 PM PDT
Lately there's been a bit of a flap over Dr. James Dobson's public declaration that Barack Obama has "fruitcake ideas" about the US Constitution and church-state separation. Mr. Dobson might want to reconsider going head to head with a man who taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago for twelve years.

But, Mr. Dobson might also want to reconsider his charge of "fruitcakery" given Dobson's earnest and highly enthusiastic account, in his best-selling book "The Strong Willed Child", of an epic battle between Dobson and his 12 pound miniature Dachshund "Siggie" - to force the little Weiner Dog off its napping spot on a fuzzy toilet seat cover:

As the nationally-known, alleged child-rearing expert described in his child-rearing book, Dobson was apparently initially overmatched by the wee weiner dog and so grabbed a belt. A titanic clash, between man and vicious, snarling miniature Dachshund ensued...

Daily Koz

or just Google:
dobson-Siggy-dog abuse, or
Dobson-Harriet Mears-Brit Hume for some flat-out lies from Dobson

In this nation, we have freedom of religion. This is not some unclaimed territory! It's not a race to claim the flag in the name of Christ, so we can do battle with Islam.

America is a nation where we are free to practice our faith, or lack of it, as we see fit.

The law of the land is a secular thing. It is based on demonstrable harms and known truths and facts as much as we can manage.

That law is the highest authority, not any book, talisman, idol or other device used to realize faith as something material.

Dominionists reject this. They believe all of us need to live by their authority and are working to take over the democratic process, establish control over it and the courts, so that they can by sheer numbers, embody their beliefs in the law, thus having dominion over all of us.

Sorry, but that's not how it works here.

Steve, since you brought up Pete Rose, let's talk about him. He was the first baseman for the 1980 World Champion Philadelphia Phillies. Remember that utterly amazing year for baseball? Boy, I sure do. I listened to every game of the playoffs on the radio. It was pure magic. What does Pete Rose have to do with James Dobson? I'll spell it out for you.

Lost in the celebration of the bile, bloodletting and Bible bending that passes for "public interest, convenience, and necessity" is the lifelong work of a true American original. Unfortunately, this veteran voice -- who stands head and shoulders above his colleagues in an elite profession -- is just not good enough for the RHOF in 2008. In order to honor a minor pioneer among neo-conservative hosts, the hall will be snubbing a genuine giant in broadcasting. He should be at the top of the list, but instead...

HARRY KALAS

...is gonna have to settle for his 2002 Ford C. Frick Award. This is truly pathetic. Radio is a broadcast medium that was both blessed and built by the golden voices of our national pastime. The National League Champion Philadelphia Phillies are in the World Series right now. Just like he has since 1971, Harry is calling every game for the fans back home. By wonderful coincidence, the RHOF could be celebrating the career of this undisputed legend with an induction. Nope, not this year. I am glad they are wisely honoring the all-time king of overnight, Art Bell, but that should not mean they have to make room for a fringe show that promotes things even further out than saucercraft.

I can try to set aside the fact that Dr. Dobson wrote bestselling instruction manuals for child abusers. I can try to ignore the fact that he has long pushed back against science and advocated for discrimination against homosexuals and other minorities. I can try to move past the fact that he believes that women are inferior creatures best suited for cooking, cleaning and carnal collaboration. We all know first hand what kind of low information sewer the medium of radio has become over the years and he has thrived in that environment. Still, why would everyone ignore one of the last living legends in the industry for a second tier social engineer? I mean, we are talking about...

HARRY KALAS

...not some tinfoil hat pseudo-preacher with a cult of personality. I know, the times have changed and baseball is no longer as sacred as saccharine sanctimony. Our modern industry is driven by dollars, dogma and demagoguery far more than doubles down the line. Dobson is a popular AM radio entertainer. It seems the airwaves of the nation demand nothing more of a successful broadcaster than inciting fear, suspicion and bigotry, discouraging parents from raising smart children, swinging votes away from creating a free society, and turning back the clock on the rights of women. Ignorance and hate are just part of his job. Though he has pounded his bully pulpit for decades, he remains rather indistinguishable from his many reactionary colleagues. What makes Dobson RHOF material?

I agree with the folks here who are shocked at the stupidity of this induction. There are no compelling arguments that would pass muster with actual broadcasters that make Dr. Dobson a more important figure than the great Harry Kalas. They gave Joe the Evangelical Plumber a ballot this year and he is making the RHOF look like total idiots. I wonder who the great unwashed will vote for next year, Mildred Gillars?

Tdanner, I hope you will forgive my digression. This foolishness really got my blood a-boiling.

Dobson uses Focus on the Family to promote the religious right.

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_religiousright

Dobson, along with other dominionists are busy working on establishing control of the Republican party. (with bad results, this year it seems!) At the same time, dominionists are working on control over churches and other sects to build power and influence, all with the goal of an enduring theocracy, where a select few act as clerics, and the rest of us having to live with their interpretations embodied as law.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/relig_inst.htm

That last link is interesting as it highlights how Dobson uses small groups to divide churches that do not adhere to their belief and value system. This practice has a lot of critics. You can find a list of them right here:

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/

http://www.sojo.net/

http://www.creationcare.org//

http://www.bjcpa.org/

http://www.faithfulamerica.org/

All of these groups have a Shared interest in promoting freedom of religion. Our faith is a deeply personal thing, and not something to be legislated or promoted by the government.

Dobson wants power and control. That's dominion over all of us, and he wants to do it through control of our government.

This is deeply offensive to me, and many others who recognize our basic right as beings to practice our religion and follow our convictions to the maximum extent possible.

That can't happen if we allow the Christian Taliban Dominionists to gain control of our democratic process and our courts.

Finally Steve and Broadway, Dobson has harmed people.

Dobson has harmed me!

As a teen, I was subjected to many of the practices you will find in his instructional books. I've posted some of it before, so I won't repeat it here, but let's just say I had to get up, walk away and take most of my 20's to sort that crap out and be sane and human again.

Here's another way to put it. Dobson's dominionism perverted my family, turned them against me, friends against me, church against me, only for the simple fact that my beliefs did not align well with theirs.

My primary objection at that time was that I didn't believe it was right to hate people for who they are. Discrimination, in all it's forms is wrong, it's not American, and it's an abuse of basic human rights.

Dobson does all of these things, REGULARLY.

I can't wait until God decides to bring Dobson home. Maybe he will meet up with all the kids he's fucked over and get what's coming to him.

Maybe he just won't be here anymore.

Don't know, don't care.

The Dominionst movement does a lot of harm every day. There are walk aways all the time. I'm one of them, and they all say the same kinds of thing.

Dobson, and others like him, have ruined religion for me. Can't be associated with it, in any form really. Can't take the chance that I might actually contribute to another person going through the hell I did, and that we might actually see a theocracy happen because a few too many people supported nut-bags like Dobson.

Anybody, who can contemplate criminalizing who other people are (gay rights), and who works that hard to realize control (dominion) over others, has very serious character issues.

Dobson is quite simply a net loss for the world. He does way more harm than good.

Sadly, I think he's got an ongoing ready supply of needy people, looking for some advice and help. Their naivete and or condition of need makes them weak and easy prey.

There isn't much in the world that is lower than those who would prey on those struggling and in need and turn around and promote a religious and political agenda that harms them further.

If you support Dobson, you are either stupid, naive, or suffer from the same character flaws he does. If you have a problem with that, trust me, it's absolutely your fault!

Need I go on?

If anyone's interested in hearing a "Focus On The Family" program, I did a little checking around. You can catch it at these times:

Weekdays on KPDQ-FM at 7am, 11am & 8pm and Saturdays at 5am. All are in a 30 minute format.

You can also hear the program on KEX Sunday mornings at 5am, in a 60 minute format.

>>If you support Dobson, you are either stupid, naive, or suffer from the same character flaws he does

well a least I don't call you stupid, naive, or suffer from any character flaws nor say it's your fault.

>>Dobson is quite simply a net loss for the world.

just listen to one Focus on the Family show please.

I've listened to the program. I've had to live on the receiving end of the books too.

I'm absolutely not gonna apologize for that Broadway. Like you and all that. Don't get me wrong there.

Make no mistake though, if you support Dobson, you've got a problem, or you don't know any better.

Christian Taliban. My new catch phrase.

I'm gonna drop this now. It's not possible to demonstrate the issues surrounding Dobson and others with enough fidelity to make an impact, without also enduring a cost. The cost is simply that I won't hold back on these kinds of issues. Either it's discussed in a very real way, or it is a waste of time. Sadly, that discussion can have too high of an impact on people personally, and going too far down that path just isn't good for the overall health of our forum here.

Feel free to e-mail me, if you want to discuss this further.

We now should return to a rational HOF discussion, having put the cards on the table, both pro and con, regarding the character and harm Dobson presents to us.

Thanks Tdanner! And I enjoy your contributions very much. Hope to see that sharing mood more often.

If all you smelly tree hugging hippies are upset about this then I fully support it and I dont even know who the guy is.

I just like to see you all cry.

Comparing the character of Pete Rose to James Dobson is an insult to one of the greatest baseball players ever. Lay off.

That's totally fair. I only aimed to compare the situation. He was denied HOF entry for character reasons. This mess with Dobson is similar.

I didn't mean to imply the two were equal in the character department. They are not.

To be fair, Pete was denied due to a rule, not a character decision.

I assume that jab was meant for Steve. I am still kinda pissed off that Harry Kalas was passed over for the dominionist nutbag.

I have followed Pete since the days of the "Big Red Machine" and remain a loyal fan to this day. 9/11/85 Baby!

Like most baseball devotees, I hold out hope every year that the worst commissioner in the history of horsehide and hickory will come to his senses and put a plaque for Mr. Rose in Cooperstown.

Unlike Mr. Dobson, Pete never ever bet against his own team. He was addicted to gambling, not ignorance.

I to hold out hope for mr. rose.

>>Christian Taliban

wait...where's my sword...oh...there's my Bible!

That's what I'm saying. God didn't write the bible for you to use as a sword.


But you're welcome to fall on it at anytime.