....try try again....

Dow down 700 right now.

Thank goodness I work on the ground floor.

Good.

I don't like this at all.

There is no getting around the whole derivatives mess. It's leveraging the same value multiple times and that's extremely dangerous, leads to excessive speculation and market volatility.

Thom had a guest on this morning that made an extremely worthy point. If the problems come from credit and those mortgages failing, thus multiplying the failure way too many times...

The fix then is to:

A. Make sure we have as few failures as possible. So put some money into the mortgages where there is a reasonable chance of them being viable.

B. Don't give the money to the borrowers! Goldman and friends are borrowers. It's not our problem that they gambled and lost. Give the banks money that can be borrowed to keep businesses and people credit lines liquid and available to them.

C. Goldman and friends should NOT be allowed to reclassify as ordinary banks to capture the FDIC dollars and bailout funds.

They are the problem. They gambled, they pushed for deregulation and they lost having taken way too strong of a risk position.

If it were me, I would spend the money buying actual controlling interest shares, can the CEO's and replace them with solid, moderate and competent people who can run the ship safely until things are stable.

Then sell the works back at a profit to recover the investment the taxpayers made.

Done this way, some wealthy people are gonna lose. They deserve to. It was their gamble.

We don't deserve to leverage our future now just so they don't have to realize they've gambled theirs away.

The bright side, if it can be considered that, is that the rejection of the bail out is evidence that Congress is not buying what Bush is selling this time. After being led by their noses into the Iraq War, Bush's impassioned plea to pass this thing fell on mostly deaf ears.

And for that, I say, it's about time.

They had the votes until Nancy Pelosi shot her mouth off with highly partisan speech on the House floor.Even if it was right ! Now she is as big an Idiot as Dubiya. It changed the vote of a few Republicans.

Even the President of a High School Student council knows that you dont bring up controversial issues when you are trying to build and VOTE on a consensus !

Oh the poor babies.

Remember this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nydailynews_newt.jpg

http://www.truthout.org/092908T

"Congressional support for the bailout was a big victory for those who want to redistribute income upward. The bailout is about taking money from the schoolteachers and cab drivers and giving it to incredibly rich Wall Street bankers, who are so incompetent that they drove their banks into the ground."

Dow Sinks 777 Points As Bailout Plan Fails

This from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/29/dow-bailout-selloff-markets-cx_cw_0929t ransclose.html

I believe this is just a much needed correction in the Dow to get back on track. The Government should leave the Stock Market alone! If we're headed for a Depression, passing this "bill" will only make it harder on us later.

I don't think it was all Nancy Pelosi’s fault -- but she does bear much of the blame. I've heard from more than one commentator on television today say that the votes in favor where never really there and they knew it. It was a crap shoot. Her whip and majority leader did a lousy job, as did the GOP Minority leader. They should have had this wrapped up before the vote was cast.

This thing has taken so many twists and turns it's hard to figure out what will happen. My question though is where the hell is George W. Bush? I've thought him a rotten president from the day he was appointed winner of the 2000 presidential election by the US Supreme Court, but this just proves how rotten a leader he is. The White House is screaming deep recession but our dimwit and chief George W. Bush is hiding behind his Treasury Secretary. If George W. Bush can't get GOP members of the House to take his calls, he should be on Capitol Hill himself selling the crap out of some kind of deal (not necessarily this one – but something). You’d think he was Richard Nixon hiding from protesters inside the White House prior to his resignation. I don't trust the man one whit, but I would expect more from even this President of the United States.

Well one thing about the Administration in all this. They and " W " et al did NOT do a good enough job selling the fact that this IS really NOT a bailout , it is a rescue of the economy that affects everyone on so called 'Main Street'. After today, and probably tommorow and the next day, we will all see the results of this fiasco. 50% of the working and/or investing American electorate has money on Wall Street. So 'Main Street' is part and party to Wall Street, in essence.

The 'rescue ' was called a bailout and in the beginning this term wasnt quashed right away. And it was I believe due to the LACK of communication skills of "W" in general and to a lesser degree due to some level of mistrust of " W " by the citizens in general. You would think that his handlers would have fixed that from the get go. But not so, and this cluster got started on the wrong foot.

"W" started to get it right in his last Whitehouse speech a few nights ago, explaining it a bit better, but because of what wasnt DONE in at the very start of this cluster', word got around about this being a bailout of Wall Street fat cats. A lot of people , unlike us chickens who are following this situation very closely, hear or read a sound bite and get an instant snapshot of what is really going on , and then get a still picture that isnt true anymore after a day or so. Things are happening fast ! It pays to keep up and a lot of people are not doing that.

I heard a news story a few days ago. That bush was staying in the sidelines and using paulson to get it done. Bush felt that paulson had a better chance of selling it, than he did. Thats why W is on the sidelines. Oh how I can't wait for W to go back to the ranch for GOOD. Whoever is our next president. GOD help them. They have a real mess on there hands.

2/3's of the Republicans in the House voted against the bill that has been pushed by a Republican president and a Republican Treasury Sec, and somehow this is Nancy Pelosi's fault? Spare me.

Mabey 2/3 of the republicans know what a turkey this bill is. only buying time, not a solution.

My next guess...
they'll revote on this, and this time they'll cry that they need more than $700 billion because it's taking too long.
Wall St. will probably get told to go take a hike, again.

Nancy Pelosi needs to know when to bloviate and when to keep quiet. Timing has a lot to do with about everything , especially in politics.

Well , one thing , a new bill might look a lot different. Perhaps an insurance entity that underwrites difficult MBEs. Instead of a blanket 700 billion. Or we could have a totally Democrat colored bill that has more Christmas ornaments on it and cost more.

I think we should focus on the problem; namely, those mortgages. For every one of these we can fix, that's many securities that won't come due.

An infusion of cash to the investment banks is nothing more than a gamble. It's not a smart wager to put most of your chips on the table, unless you know you are gonna win, if it hits.

In this case, the core problem isn't addressed very well with the current structure, so we are not known to "win" as in "fix" stuff, so it's foolish to continue.

I suspect there will be a lot of grappling on this until we see some more clarity on whether or not what we spend and how will actually do something that we can point to and say, "yeah, that works and we are gonna be ok."

I'm opposed to any spending of large amounts of money without ownership stakes and or reforms that connect those dollars to a secure payout, as in "sure we will float the dollars now, but the tax payers will get paid back."

This is not a profit time. It's a get things running nicely again time. So far, profit has been preserved for a lot of players and that's just not cool with me.

Gamble in the risky financials and you might lose.

When businesses do this, they get owned by somebody else. In this case, that's us!

There is a lot of discussion distracting from that, and I believe that is where the friction is.

I want this to be a loan, plain and simple. It needs to pay something back over a fairly short time so that we get the benefit of it.

First plan of attack on Thursday and sooner if can be but is in reality wishful thinking is for every American to stop looking for who to blame and who to point the finger at. At this point that shouldn't even be near the top of the list. We can sort that kinda shit out last. Because honestly both sides are to blame and every American deserves at the very least in sometimes even the most remote ways a piece of this.

IMHO

Well, it's helpful to see them like pigs at the feeding trough.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/29/19138/6703/400/614879

Seriously, this is crap.

We need to apply the money to the problem, not pay off losses.

shyguy-glad someone finally sees that it was both sides that screwed us. and andy if obahma made four million dollars last year. how is he middle class??? I don't know many middle class people who made over a million dollars last year and he sent his kids to a exclusive private school. regards to all. steve.

Obama was middle class until a few years ago. John McCain on the other hand grew up privileged and then married into millions.

$1.2 trillion worth of market value disappeared today. The Republicans have fucked up the system, now they're fucking up the solution! Where's John McCain's leadership he's touting? Who's in control of the Republicans in Congress?

Bottom line, something needs to be done ASAP otherwise we'll face much more dire consequences.

Sorry, wasn't JUST the repoobs who dropped the ball. This has been building since banking dereg, so anyone who signed on to that plan, reps and dems alike share that albatross. This isn't a problem that just blew up like a midwest thunderstorm, it's been building for years!

Didn't a bigger percentage of Democrats vote for it than against and as for the Republicans I thought I heard the majority voted against it. Think they are gun shy about another half brained Bush plan?

AMERICA - BIG OVERSTUFFED BAD KHARMA VAULT. YOU HAVE IT COMING YOUR WAY.

Here's a little economic food for thought:

On Monday, the Dow closed at 10,365.45.

On January 19, 2001, the day W. took office the Dow closed at 10,589.59.

Eight years in office and not a dam thing to show for it, other than destruction.

Then maybe someone lost focus on what exactly constitutes SUSTAINABLE GROWTH......
3-5 percent is steady, unspectacular, but attainable. 18/20/30??? looks great short term, but like a pyamid scheme, eventually crumbles under it's own weight. The investment houses crumbled under unsustainable growth fueled by credit. Can't wait to see how the CC deal will turn out. And for any groups looking to shed stations and markets... can't see any financing for those sales. Broadcasting on the cheap will continue.

DEAL WITH YOUR LOCAL BANKS!
watch out for YOU!