That the 4 month baby in the Palin family is actually the offsping of her 17-year-old unmarried daughter, Bristol.
http://news.spreadit.org/bristol-palin-pregnantsarah-palin-daughter-baby/

http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/sarah-palin/22236/the-fully-vetted-sarah-pa lin/

Wow! Having a wife that is 6 months pregnant, Palin certainly did not look pregnant in the picture taken on Super Tuesday, which would have been 6 months into her pregnancy. And, she certainly doesn't look like most women do 4 months after giving birth. Is anyone going to produce a picture of her actually pregnant? Not to mention, the daughter looks pregnant in the picture with her family. Look at her boobs and look at her tummy. That's a woman in her first trimester if I've ever seen one. Either that, or she likes McDonalds. And, she's been out of school for months claiming "mono". You gotta admit that there's some hard evidence indicating this rumor is true.

If it turns out that this is true, that Palin claimed she was the mother of her daughter's child, this is sickening! McCain's campaign will surely be sunk and rightfully so.

Where is the mothering instinct? What woman wants to run for VP four months after having a baby? It just doesn't add up.

After more research, it's looking more like it could be a smear. However, it seems that there should be definitive proof one way or the other...

It doesn't add up because Republicans have skewed math skills and McBush doesn't know about the economy.

There is a poster here who did the right thing, the honorable thing, and stood by his daughter in that situation. That's you, Skybill

I hope that this is just a rumor, because the alternative is horrifying.

And if she did hide her daughter's pregnancy, rather than deal with folks head on about it, and then use that baby as a tool to promote a "family values" stance with voters, I hope she suffers all the repercussions due.

What a horrible example to set, in so many ways.

That's great news, Vitalogy!

If the rumor is untrue, it seems it should be easy to prove she was pregnant. Surely, somewhere, in some Alaska media outlet archives there is a picture definitively showing her when she was pregnant. The longer it takes for evidence to appear to contradict the story, makes the "daughter pregnant" theory even more plausible.

There is at least an ounce of truth in every rumor. IMHO. It could also be a smear job though. The only issue with this story that makes me go "uhm ok maybe" is the fact that the website has been scrubbed.

If I didn't know better. I would have thought this was the 1950's. who gives a rats ass. I don't.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory (but it is amusing!). I think a more plausible explanation is that Palin was sensitive about her appearance and avoided being photographed in poses that would make her look fat while pregnant. Lots of women are sensitive about how they look when pregnant.

Further, I've known women who did not look pregnant until very late in their pregnancies. I have a good friend who barely showed at 6 months, and I can see how she could have concealed even that with the right clothes.

If by some wild stretch this thing turned out to be true it would end her candidacy, of course. I hope not for the sake of Obama's chances. I think Palin is a terrible VP pick myself and once the excitement about her unexpected choice wears off, that will become obvious.

Andrew

Andrew's right. The best thing for Obama would be for the Mayor of Mayberry to stay on the ticket. If she is in fact taking the pregnancy bullet for her daughter, good for her. Good Mom.

Why?

I mean, why?

I'm not pretending to be daft. I sincerely don't understand why Palin pretending to be the birthmother is good OR bad.

But why is it good in THIS case?

I think it's a long shot that she is - but let me pose this question in advance of the eventual release of the birth certificate;

Let's say that Palin is not the birthmother. If that is true, one of two things is also true;

#1.During the vetting process, this became known by McCain and/or his staff. They decided to just say " That's ok. We won't talk about that."

or

#2. During the vetting process, this was NOT found out by McCain or his staff. Which means it would have been purposely hidden by Palin.

Either way - come on - major tactical error. A deal killer for anyone; Trying to hide it.

Which leads me to believe that a blunder like this would not really be even possible by The GOP. No way. Say what you will about the reasons she was picked or whatever - but there is no way Palin herself or McCain's staff would be willing to eat this one and deal with it. No way.

I think it is more likely that Palin will be asked to publically remove herself from VP consideration ( re; resign before we are forced to fire you ) - and a new VP will be announced before the convention. I'm not saying that it will happen. I just think it's more likely than the rumor being true.

And if that happens, then we can just move on.

i find it amazing that the liberals ignored how bill clinton lied under oath, obstructed justice. etc. they would say it was a private matter, between hillary and bill. etc. but if its a rep. watch out. what hypocrites.LOL

I, for one, never felt, said or believed ANY of that. But even if I did, I would be stopped with a simple " two wrongs don't make a right."

How do you explain that?

Like Stevethedj, I don't give a rat's ass.
It is a private family matter.

What this does show more and more, is that McCain's campaign was soiling themselves Thursday night after Obama's speech, and HAD to do something drastic Friday morning to interrupt the news cycle or it was going to be over for them.

They made a very rash and desperate decision to go with Palin before even vetting her.

"On Saturday, a Democrat tasked with opposition research contacted the Huffington Post with this piece of information: as of this weekend, the McCain campaign had not gone through old newspaper articles from the Valley Frontiersman, Palin's hometown newspaper.
How does he know? The paper's (massive) archives are not online. And when he went to research past content, he was told he was the first to inquire.
"No one else had requested access before," said the source. "It's unbelievable. We were the only people to do that, which means the McCain camp didn't." (...)
LINK

THE important thing about this, and the other stories starting to come out about Palin is that John McCain is proving Obama's assestion that John McCain has poor judgement when making important decisions.

Stevethedj: i find it amazing that the liberals ignored how bill clinton lied under oath, obstructed justice. etc. they would say it was a private matter, between hillary and bill. etc. but if its a rep. watch out. what hypocrites.LOL

Clearly you have no clue what the issue is here. It's not that "the liberals" are really worried about whether Palin is really the mother or not (I'm certain she is). It's whether such a wild rumor would derail her candidacy if true - and have no doubt, if this wild rumor turned out to be true Palin's political career, not just her VP candidacy, would be over.

Andrew

It's a good Mom thing to do, if that was her choice, because she's protecting her kid. That's it. Pretty strange, to me, but as a family thing, it's not ours to judge. If it's true. Which I doubt, and don't care about anyway.

What is ours to judge is McCain's decision making. The VP has two responsibilities--casting the tie-breaking vote in the Senate, and--much more importantly--taking over as President should the main guy keel over. The naming of a running mate is tantamount to selecting the next potential President, and thus it's the first serious decision made by a candidate. McCain's choice of an under-vetted small-state bureaucrat solely to appeal simultaneously to female voters and the conservative GOP base speaks volumes--and none of it good. McCain screwed the pooch on this one.

And for those who parrot the GOP talking points memo that came out on Friday morning (it was funny to hear Rush Limbaugh read directly off Dick Morris' e-mail)--no, Sarah Palin is not "more experienced than Obama." She hasn't been vetted by the media, the opposition, and the public in the most exhaustive primary campaign in history. She hasn't faced the best political minds of her generation in twenty-one prime-time debates. She hasn't galvanized a generation. She's only beginning to get the swift-boating treatment that the 2004 election lowered the bar to. She's been the manager of one of our smallest state governments, and those who see that as relevant experience that Obama lacks don't understand what the Presidency is about. The President is not the city manager. He/she defines the vision and then appoints the people who appoint the people who appoint the managers, and so on down the line.

Jimmy Carter failed as President because he treated the Presidency as a governorship, involving himself in micromanagement instead of leading and inspiring. Barack won't make that mistake.

" It's a good Mom thing to do, if that was her choice, because she's protecting her kid. That's it."

Protecting her kid from what?

I swear to you I am not picking a fight. I can understand much of this in the abstract ( " I would do anything I could to help make my kid as happy as possible." ). But reading it, on the internet, from a stranger - it sounds like it is such obvious reasoning with obvious benefits to eveyone involved. And in this case, it doesn't seem terribly obvious how this is good.

The closest thing I can think of would be that Gramma Palin may be older and have some experience. But even if this rumor is true, it's not like the birthmother is somehow in a better position now that Gramma Palin has kept this a secret.

I know I'm bouncing between the rumor and everything else possible. I'm just really trying to see what some call such an obvious solution for the better. And I miss obvious solutions quite often.

So, it's not a trick and I'm not trying to paint Eastwood into a corner. I'm being sincere;

How is this a good thing in any way? If it's just " To spare the younger Palin the sheer difficulty in raising a child with special needs. " Heck - I'm NOT oblivious to that. But there seems to be different dynamics at play here than just that. I mean, if that were the only reason, then why would she pretend to be pregnant? Why not just say " I am doing what I can to help my daughter. Raising her as my own would be better."?

At this point, if the rumor was true, there seems to be an attempt at hiding some shame ( young pregnant daughter of a Governor, special needs child, possible backlash from The GOP about unwed issues, premarital sex - the threat of being disowned by her party [ unjustly, but likely ], losing office, etc. ).

Heck Palin, if this was all true and if ANY of those reasons I listed were a motivating factor in your decisions - come on over to The Democrats. I'll show you some grace if you need a break. But if you stay in your party because you fear them, and are willing to pretend you don't, I'm sure you'll be fine over there. I need a break from being lied to.

All of this, of course, is just an exercise until the truth comes out once and for all.

" If it's true. Which I doubt, and don't care about anyway."

You don't think whether or not a child she, as a VP candidate today, claims is hers, is actually hers, is something to care about?

>>You don't think whether or not a child she, as a VP candidate today, claims is hers, is actually hers, is something to care about?

No. Nor did I care that Clinton diddled an intern and Eisenhower had a little ED problem with his chauffeur Kay Sommersby. I didn't care that JFK bounced Marilyn in the Lincoln Bedroom or that Jefferson sired a suspiciously tawny line of offspring with Sally Hemings. Someday we'll get beyond the notion that our elected leaders are somehow more than people, because it's the shoulders of people upon which we build our government, and people make mistakes.

The greater, and much more relevant, mistake here was made by McCain.

As a proud Obama democrat who almost never comes to this side of the river.. I'd like to say

1. This story is being spread and picked apart WAY too much for an unfounded rumor that's sprung up over a a three day no-news weekend. We should all just drop it until a glimmer of a fact surfaces.

Then:

2. If it's true and she thought it wouldn't be discovered, she's too dumb for the job.
3. If it's true and McCain didn't catch wind of it during the vetting, he's too dumb for the job.
4. If it's not true, we've come close to swiftboating a woman failing to measure up to our conclusions from a single picture of what pregnant looks like.

Truthiness is a very dangerous thing.

>>You don't think whether or not a child she, as a VP candidate today, claims is hers, is actually hers, is something to care about?

Eastwood said, simply - No.

OK. That is quite fair and I appreciate your answer. In fact, it'll help me re-evaluate my own positions on things that I get wrapped up in. It's not that I feel I am wishy washy or on the fence about stuff. But I'm having a hard time dismissing your answer as ill-informed or unreasoned.

And to ignore that would be hypocritical.

I don't know where I'll come out on the other end - but I will give it some thought.

So will I, Chickenjuggler. I think this low-rent tabloid stuff takes our eye off the ball, but you're right. Honesty matters.

Palin CAN sink into oblivion and or obscurity. McCain can't.

Whats worse though is that Obama and his campaign have obviously no desire to go the low road ie smearing. So this if it is indeed is a smear campaign is obviously coming from an Obama supporter but I would imagine not someone in the upper eshelion of his campaign.

For what it's worth, my cousin gave birth within days of a family reunion where no one had a clue she was pregnant! A very beautiful, average size girl, she just didn't put on much extra weight.

I'm on the no rats ass ship too, as I was with the whole Monica thing. I mean, who cares?

But lets not forget it was the Republicans that lowered the bar here. Kenneth Starr couldn't get Clinton on the legitimate charge (Whitewater) so Starr nailed him on sleaze.

Can you spell karma?

Heh. I am amused though.

Skeptical--lets review history. It was lieing under oath about monica, spitting on the rule of law. asking "define sex" of the congress. lieing on tv. that got bill in trouble. I wish he would have come on tv when asked. and said yah i did it. go to hell.and bill would have not been indited. IMO I personaly didnt approve of bills lifestyle choices.

Foxnews just had breaking news that Palin's 17 yr old daughter is pregnant and plans to marry the father of the child.

Message to BOTH SIDES..........

Vote the issues

Every candidate has dirt. If you are willing to overlook the flaws on your chosen candidate, then a flaw on the opposition shouldn't be an issue for you either. Bashing the other side does nothing to enhance your own choice or convince the unwashed to switch.

Think about it, YOU aren't voting for OBAMA because MCCAIN has more dirt, or vice versa. Maybe you are, but that is scary. I would think (hope) you are voting the issues and what you think the candidate will deliver, not how many houses a guy owns or a questionable incomplete birth certificate on a suspect website

Push your candidate's strengths not ......

JOHN MC CAIN.... HE EATS BABIES!!!!

BARRACK OBAMA HE KICKS PUPPIES!!!!

PS... both sides tell lies and promise things they can't possibly deliver.

GOD I don't want ANOTHER election of "SWIFTBOATING" and negative bullshirt......

Abstinence only didn't work so well did it?

And that's her position, along with NO abortion for any reason.

Funny too, how her daughter is probably going to get a leg up from her parents, who are likely in a position to do that. For all of those, who are not so lucky, that's a pretty tough worldview to live with.

Stevethedj: Yeah, the lie chapped my ass too. I'm there with you on his lifestyle choices. However, I could easily ignore those, as it's really not my business.

The lie is bad though. IMHO, it's impeachable --and it could have been done with Clinton in far less of a spectacular manner. It turned into a general referendum on a lot of people and that's exceeding the reasonable scope of inquiry and that was as wrong as the lie was.

If the same standard (on lies) were applied to this administration, we would easily have impeachment. Probably a removal from office too, as the lies involved more than adult transgressions. (cheating isn't criminal)

Palin is gonna get put through the wringer huge. That's part of public life and really should be given consideration where being a VP pick is concerned. Don't like it, but that's really how it is and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I'm not gonna focus on much of that. What matters to me is her policy positions and they are absolutely horrible. Red meat for the 23 percenters though. They are gonna love her for sure.

GOD I don't want ANOTHER election of "SWIFTBOATING" and negative bullshit......

Make sure you tell the Republicans please.

It's already been happening.

This is what the Republicans do. They do it because their core policy positions are not very well aligned with the majority of people. This means, if we all dealt straight up, they would lose and be pressured to reconsider those until they are more closely aligned.

Stevethedj: IMO I personaly didnt approve of bills lifestyle choices.

John McCain is a known adulterer. Will you vote for him so we can put another adulterer back in the White House?

Andrew

like i said i don't give a rats ass about there personal life. if they don't break the law, or lie about it. it's a personal matter. rep or dem. IMO if elected. polin will soon be the pres. just read any accural table. and yes I will vote the issues. And i hope after the election we try king george for his public sins, where he broke the law. and i pray that obahma or mccain dosent pardon him.

Bill Clinton did not go around telling the rest of us we should play "Hide the Cigar" with interns, or anybody else.

Sarah Palin stands for everything that doesn't work, while under age, premarital sex resulting in a pregnancy, was happening right under her nose. If her belief system worked, she nor her daughter would be in this postion. Yet she still tells the rest of us her way is best, as she hides the failure of it.

Therein lies the rub.

Best of luck to Bristol and her newly formed family.

Exactly!!

Do as I say and not as I do. Really hate that.

And that IS exactly why people are talking about this stuff. There is the private life factor where I think it's probably better to not hammer it to death. (most any of us would appreciate the same sentiment, should we serve the public)

Then again, it's tough to take people seriously when their own life experience contradicts their policy advocacy.

And yes, the daughter could simply have abstained, but haven't we already established teens are not yet adults for a reason? Yeah, that reason is why education, empowerment, openness and contraception are so damn important.

Totally agree with you Entre_nous about the new family. However it happened, I wish them well! Being a parent is great!

"Family Values" are a nice thing. But would all of the fokes on this board, like Their life put under the microscope. ?? My wife and I have been married for over 32 years. God has been good to us. Other people have not been so fortunate.
Instead of putting other people down. Why not try to help them out, where we can. And when it comes to public people. Kindly stick to the issues, it is a thankless job to be a public servent.

The thing is, I think most people would agree that teenagers defy the best of intentions, and most reasonable folks from both sides would say, "OK. Stuff happens. We accept you anyway, now how best to deal?"

The hiding is what gets me. The lie about Mono gets me. We don't live in an age where "bad girls get into trouble" and get shipped off "to take care of Aunt Josie in Idaho".

I get the protection of privacy, but if you're embarrassed, ashamed, or worried about your political career being tarnished, I call BS. It will pass, with some bumps and bruises. Lies never pass: they keep going like the Energizer bunny.

Can you hide a baby forever?

The minor girl has HERE, right to privacy. It's sad we live in a age where "girls in trouble" are still looked down upon. IMO minor children of public servents should be off limits to the media, unless they break the law. And no I'm not for censorship or weakening the first addmendment.

I don't look down on "girls in trouble"...It's their parents I question.

Like I said, stuff happens, especially when young people don't have (or are DENIED) access to the information that Missing KSKD mentioned.

Yes, she does have a right to privacy, but we all live in public, and this would out sooner or later, as it does when any girl in any high school gets "accidentally" pregnant.

It probably wouldn't have been a topic if it hadn't been hidden by an ultra conservative Mom running for VP.

What I care about is that Mom having goals to CHANGE LAWS affecting people's choices in this very situation.

I completely respect the Palin family's choices. I just don't want the government dictating how everybody else should make those choices.

"Skeptical--lets review history. It was lieing under oath about monica, spitting on the rule of law."

Again, Kenneth Starr lowered the bar to tabloid level first. Clinton lied as a response to it. True, Clinton lied, but Kenneth Starr, stooping to sleaze, what the f*ck man? No Supreme Court nomination for you buddy.

How typically Republican. The party claiming to be so self-righteous and based in family values is nominating a v.p. whose own daughter is preggers at 17 years old. What does this say about the quality of the parents and their own moral foundation in raising a family? There is no two ways about it. Privacy issues notwithstanding, after all, politicians give up a certain amount of privacy when they run for office, it's part of the package. That's not the issue. The issue is the continued two faced rhetoric of the sleaziest group of greedy bastards the U.S.A. has ever been home to, a.k.a. The GOP.

This whole affair should be accompanied by "Dueling Banjos".

Do you think Palin might feel too much heat and bail as the nominee?

I simply don't understand McCain's choice here. I've tried putting on my GOP hat and it still doesn't make sense.

And now the luggage has been opened. Private matter for sure but can you image the behind the scenes conversations.

Chris_taylor: Do you think Palin might feel too much heat and bail as the nominee?

I think social conservatives are so relieved that McCain picked a social conservative to be his running mate that they haven't worried so much (yet) whether Palin is really qualified or not. McCain primed them by hinting he might select someone pro-choice. I think if McCain had said at the outset that he would only pick a social conservative, you might have seen more expressed disappointment that he didn't pick a more experienced social conservative (e.g. Tim Pawlenty). In that sense, McCain set expectations masterfully within his own party.

Also, there is a strong authoritarian streak in the Republican party. Their inclination is not to question the VP's qualifications but to fall in line once their leader has made his choice - one they can't object to on qualifications. Competency has never been a big issue for Republicans, anyway. I think Bush had pretty much demonstrated his incompetency by 2004 yet the backing of his own party for re-election that year was never in doubt. Contrast that to 1968 when Democrats, angry about Vietnam, openly revolted against LBJ and persuaded him not to seek re-election.

Andrew

Reportedly, Bristol Palin is pregnant, due in December. So unless there is something unique in Alaska's water, she could not be the mom of Trig who was born in April of this year. Sorry, you conspiracy theorists.

"i dont look down at girls in trouble" how 1950s who said she was in "trouble" accidents happen everyday thats all it is...........

In many ways the Palin family is reflective of today's American family.

>>>"there is a strong authoritarian streak in the Republican party. Their inclination is not to question..."

Ouch. Americans have an obligation to question authority. It's what the whole notion of democracy is based on. Maybe this is why you see so few young Republicans.

>>>"Reportedly, Bristol Palin is pregnant, due in December...Sorry, you conspiracy theorists."

Fox TV passed along this announcement from the McCain campaign to refute the far-fetched Daily Kos rumor of Trig's true maternity. What should have been a private family matter suddenly a) brings new attention to the Trig rumor, b) makes an instant mockery of Palin's abstinence-only theory of sex ed, and c) costs the McCain camp precious air time just when they were hoping to sell this strange choice to the public.

>> "Do you think Palin might feel too much heat and bail as the nominee?.. can you image the behind the scenes conversations..."

You have to wonder. One more little surprise, and we might have another Thomas Eagleton incident. I'm sure McCain backs her 1000%.

I think that's exactly why we don't see many young Republicans.

" In many ways the Palin family is reflective of today's American family."

Absolutely.

My NON RHETORICAL question(s) is / are; Why does today's American family look like that?

For how long has it looked like that?

Is it something that needs to be changed?

Who is going to change it, if it does?

A Government? The actual family involved?

What if we all just decided that people are going to make their own choices and decisions in matters like these? Would that be OK with anyone? Everyone?

This is quickly becoming an absolutely poetic test of deeply held beliefs of each political party; Who wants to try and control situations like these? Will it ever be successful? SHOULD it ever be successful?

This is a MACROcosom of so many tangible policy makers. It's forcing hands and hypocrites will be flushed out. Including many hypocritical stances I thought I was on firm ground about. It's taken me a few days to see it - but MAN - how perfect an opportunity to address frustrations regarding " What should a family look like and be like? And who is going to say what is best for them? And how are you going to make a family decide which resources are available to help? "

I don't want to over-state it - but there is something going on here that is either going to make people want more control, or less control.

Absolutlely amazing timing.

Excuse me everybody but if you looked at the post I did on Friday, yes Friday, I already knew the truth and you righties thought I was wrong.

Well, we are ahead of McCain. The only reason he want's to become President is to show up his father-in-law and stop being refered to as Cindy's Husband in many circles.

It's time for the GOP to reselect another candidate or let Obama win by default. More than $40 million dollars could be saved by the government if the GOP would just default to Obama.

Based on the mistakes made over the last eight years it's the least the GOP could do.

Abstinence only education DOES NOT WORK. I present Bristol Palin as a prime example. How many more teen girls need to be burdened with pregnancy before the religious right sees the light? Abstinence only education is a FAILURE.

I would have to say that Sarah Palin is not off to a very good start. She seems to have a lot of drama in her family. She just gave birth to a down syndrome baby a few months ago, her 17 year old daughter is pregnant, and she'd under investigation on whether she abused her powers by trying to fire her sister's ex-husband after their divorce got ugly.

This is McCain's "Harriet Miers" moment. Just like when Bush nominated the eminently unqualified Miers to SCOTUS, McCain will weather some blistering attacks on his VP choice, perhaps Palin will even stick around long enough to be blown out of the water by Biden during the VP debate, causing Palin to withdraw her name from consideration for the good of the ticket. Then McCain will bring in a ringer (Pawlenty, perhaps) for his October Suprise. The way things are heating up for Palin so quickly and intensely, I can't believe she will make it to Election Day.

Does Eagleton ring a bell? Followed by "Landslide"

The ony thing stopping the landslide is the biggest criminal in US History-Karl Rove the father of the Georgia Russian War.

It is time for the World Court to have Karl Rove arrested, convicted, and placed in jail for life with other parties from the Middle East.

I too am starting to think Palin will not stay on as VP, if just because of her family. She has a 5 month old baby with Down's Syndrome AND a 17-year old daughter who is 5 months pregnant. And three other kids. Are you telling me this family can handle being thrust overnight into the national spotlight? If they had been there for years that's one thing, but they are going from almost anonymity to international scrutiny instantly. That's got to be incredibly hard. Obama may have two young daughters, but they've had time to adjust, and they seem not to have any sort of family crisis at the moment.

Andrew

A slap on the wrist from your man...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_on_Palin.html?showall

>>...And three other kids

a revision of the word "scandal"

Family drama for sure, but her political stance makes me see Bush in a dress.

Here's an email my dad sent to me. Can't confirm the actual source and some of the news we already know about, but if this is legit from an Alaskan resident, it's worth the read.

--------------

As an Alaskan, I am writing to give all of you some information on Sarah Palin, Senator McCain's choice for VP. As an Alaska voter, I know more than most of you about her and, frankly, I am horrified that he picked her.

The most accurate description of her is red neck. Her husband works in the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay and races snow mobiles. She is a life time member of the NRA and has worked tirelessly to allow indiscriminate hunting of wildlife in Alaska , particularly wolves and bears. She has spent millions of Alaska state dollars on aerial hunting of these predators from helicopters and airplanes, dollars that should have been spent, for example, on Alaska 's failing school system.We have the lowest rate of high school graduation in the country. Not all of you may think aerial predator hunting is so bad, but how anyone (other than Alaska wolf-haters, of which there are many, most without teeth), could think this use of funds is appropriate is beyond me. If you want to know more about the aerial hunting travesty, let me know and I will send some links to informative web sites.

She has been a strong supporter of increased use of fossil fuels, yet the McCain campaign has the nerve to say she has "green" policies. The only thing green about Sarah Palin is her lack of experience. She has consistently supported drilling in ANWR, use of coal-burning power plants (as I write this, a new coal plant is being built in her home town of Wasilla ), strip mining, and almost anything else that will unnecessarily exploit the diminishing resources of Alaska and destroy its environment.

Prior to her one year as governor of Alaska , she was mayor of Wasilla, a small red neck town outside Anchorage.The average maximum education level of parents of junior high school kids in Wasilla is 10th grade. Unfortunately, I have to go to Wasilla every week to get groceries and other supplies, so I have continual contact with the people who put Palin in office in the first place. I know what I'm talking about. These people don't have a concept of the world around them or of the serious issues facing the US . Furthermore, they don't care. So long as
they can go out and hunt their moose every fall, kill wolves and bears and drive their snow mobiles and ATVs through every corner of the wilderness, they're happy. I wish I were exaggerating.

Sarah Palin is currently involved in a political corruption scandal. She fired an individual in law enforcement here because she didn't like how he treated one of her relatives during a divorce. The man's performance and ability weren't considered; it was a totally personal firing and is currently under investigation. While the issue isn't close to the scandal of Ted Steven's corruption, it shows that Palin isn't "squeaky clean" and causes me to think there ay be more issues that could come to light. Clearly McCain doesn't care.

When you line Palin up with Biden, the comparison would be laughable if it weren't so serious. Sarah Palin knows nothing of economics (admittedly a weak area for McCain), or of international affairs, knows nothing of national government, Social Security, unemployment, health care systems - you name it. The idea of her meeting with heads of foreign governments around the world truly frightens me.

In an increasingly dangerous world, with the economy in shambles in the US , Sarah Palin is uniquely UNqualified to be vice president. John McCain is not a young man. Should something happen to him such that the vice president had to step in, it would destroy our country and possibly the world to have someone as inexperienced and inappropriate as Sarah Palin. The choice of Palin is a cheap shot by McCain to try
to get Hillary supporters to vote for him. when McCain introduced her today, Palin had the nerve to compare herself with Hillary and Geraldine Ferraro. Sarah Palin, you are no Hillary Clinton.

To those of you who, like me, supported Hilary and were upset that she did not get the nomination, please don't think that Sarah Palin is a worthy substitute. If you supported Hillary, regardless of what you think the media and the democratic party may have done to undermine her campaign, the person to support now is Obama, not Sarah Palin. To those of you who are independent or undecided, don't let the choice of Palin sway you in favor of McCain. Choosing her shows how unqualified
McCain is to be president. To those of you who are conservative, I guess you have no choice for president. But please try to see how the poor choice of Palin tells us a great deal about McCain's judgment. While the political posturing inherent in the choice of Palin is obvious, the more serious issue is the fact that the VP is, literally, a heartbeat away from the presidency. Sarah Palin is totally and unequivocally unqualified to be vice president, let alone president.

I know this is a lengthy and emotional email, but the stakes are high. I thought it might help for all of you, regardless of political affiliation, to know something about Palin from someone who has to live with her administration in Alaska on a daily basis.

Jackie S.

Thanks Chris.


Hmm . . . I'm thinking at this point maybe even ditzy Kathleen Harris would be a better pick.

And now ABC reports that Sarah was a member--in the 1990's--of a fringe political group that advocates for a vote on Alaska's seceding from the union.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

I'm starting to wonder if Dr. Peter Venkman said it best: "This chick is toast."

Chris, the E-mail your Father sent you is hilarious. Sarah Palin is a “red neck” and a mayor of a “small red neck town.” No wonder why liberals are called elitists and snobs. Jackie S. and your Father probably think San Francisco is the ideal American city.

It's not elitist to seriously consider if she has had enough exposure to the bigger picture stuff to be qualified to potentially run the nation.

Clearly she hasn't, or we would have heard more from here than we have to date.

All of that will come out rather quickly. Either she has smarts and some perception of the bigger picture, or she does not. That's what I'm watching for, frankly. Her ideological positions are red meat for the pro-life 23 percent crowd. No question there. Home freaking run.

Those don't decide elections though. All the other stuff does.

Betcha a cookie she says something terminal for the McCain campaign within a week.

McCain is the real elitist. He doesn't even know how many homes he owns and he's worth over $100 million.

However, Palin is indeed a redneck. Her baby and her daughter's baby will be born 8 months apart. It don't get any more redneck than that.

Vitalogy, you probably aggree with Obama that “bitter” small-town Americans “cling to guns and religion."

latest from Time.com

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837862,00.html?xid=rss-topstor ies

I don't care if she is a redneck.

I care if she is VP though.

Baby steps, eh? Literally.

Patrick I'm glad you found the email humorous. If Pailn should become V.P. or god forbid, President-you'll NEED your sense of humor.

Sounds just like a disgruntled whiney lib.

...Her husband works in the oil fields of Prudhoe Bay....

This is bad why? The key word here is works. Piss off a liberal. Work hard and stay off welfare.

...and races snow mobiles...

This is bad why? What, he should sit on the couch and watch bowling or golf on TV?

...She is a life time member of the NRA...

This is bad why? It is a big plus. The NRA does more to support our 2nd amendment rights than ANY other organization in the US.

...has worked tirelessly to allow indiscriminate hunting of wildlife in Alaska, particularly wolves and bears...

I'd like to know what the writers definition of "indiscriminate hunting" is. I'm sure the Alaska DFW wouldn't allow "indiscriminate hunting".

The only thing the writer says that is accurate is; Sarah Palin, you are no Hillary Clinton. Which is a VERY, VERY, VERY GOOD thing!!! (Especially for Sarah)

So the right-wing base is happy. That'll get you 25% at the polls. McCain's first instinct was right. Should've picked Lieberman. He may get his way yet. But personally, I hope she stays. It's been a long time since we've been unified by a landslide.

I'm going on record now, mark it down:

Sarah Palin will not be the VP nominee. There will be a change.

Yep.

What do you say? Week, two weeks? Coupla days?

I'm going on record now, mark it down:

Sarah Palin will not be the VP nominee. There will be a change.

I have to agree.

I really don't think she was a good pick. I posted that in the VEEP thread.

I also said I don't know who the best pick would be, but it needs to be a very strong candidate if McCain wants any chance at beating Obama.

What I'm tickled about is all the crap the libs are bringing up. None of it is really important, just a bunch of whining.

Well, if it really is just a bunch of whining, then she's actually a good pick right?

The person who wrote the e-mail sent to chris. sounds like a real tree hugging liberal. while that person is at it. why don't thay finish it off and call here a Born again Christian.(which she is by here own admission). the left is getting desperate. Oh and what about issues.

" What I'm tickled about is all the crap the libs are bringing up. None of it is really important, just a bunch of whining."

Wait a minute. NONE of what has been talked about pertaining to Palin being picked as VP is important? None? Does that include her qualifications? Does that include the same sorts of things Republicans have brought up about Palin? Is that whining too? And if so, then why don't you think she was a good pick?

Or are you just whining too?

Geeze. We agree that she's not a good pick. But if I say that, I'm whining?

It's not whining. It's expressing the exact same reservations in her being picked as some Republicans.

Why don't you tell me how I can express that and NOT be whining.

Go ahead.

I'll wait.

LOL!!!

Nobody is calling her born again because that has nothing to do with the issues, nor the positions she stands for.

There are liberal Christians, Gay Christians, Conservative Christians, Independent Christians, and all sorts of Christians.

To equate the two devalues Christians! That's bad form.

By the way, if the current ticket is, what - ratified? - at the convention, what's the process in place for when she drops out tomorrow? A do-over?

Then what is to be said for all those who thought it was a brilliant pick? I assume it's perfectly legitimate to discount their judgement. Since, you know, McCain knew about all of this stuff in advance of picking her.

Yeah. Tell me more about why McCain's experience translates to being such a great President again?

The Maverick and The MILF. ( Obviously not my line. But it is a new show on Fox this fall ).

Issues? Like teaching creationism in the public schools? Having Alaska secede from the US? Abstinence-only sex education? Ignoring the environment?

These are among the reasons why I turned in my GOP card years ago. Call me when you rediscover what conservatism means. Hint: it ain't Jerry Fallwell.

CJ, what I'm talking about as whining are the things like "her disabled child is really her daughters child", "Her daughter is pregnant, therefore all her morals and teachings are bunk" that kind of crap.

The main reason I don't think she's great pick is that until Friday, virtually no one outside Alaska knew she even existed.

She might be, as I've heard her called in the media, a rising star in the Republican Party, but McCain doesn't need a RISING STAR, he need a star that is already shining brightly.

Nah, just saying she's not a good pick isn't whining. It's speaking the truth.

...Like teaching creationism in the public schools?... There is NOTHING wrong with this. If they are going to teach the theory of evolution, and that's ALL it is, a theory, then they should teach the theory of Creationism too.

No they want teaching of evolution removed.

So do we get the Alaska "Scope" Monkey trials next.

Skybill I don't care for Palin because I think her political stance moves the country in the wrong direction. She will rape this land environmentally including some pristine geography in her own home state. She sounds like Bush intensified and reads like a horror story when it comes to any foreign policy. I echo your sentiments that she is not what the GOP needs.

She's no different than any other GOP candidate that was under consideration. The GOPs biggest problem is they have no Obama type candidate.

"If they are going to teach the theory of evolution, and that's ALL it is"

Are you skeptical about the theory of evolution?

How about the theory of gravity? That's ALL it is.

I predict Sarah Parah will not drop out. And she will be our next Vice President.

I mean Sarah Palin.

Creationism is not a theory. It's a fable and has no place in public education, any more than the theory of the Lochness Monster.

If you want your kid to learn the fables, buck up and pay the money it takes to have your kid professionally brainwashed.

I agree with those that say Palin won't last. McCain in is a no win situation. If she leaves, his judgment looks terrible for picking her in the first place. If she sticks around, she'll do damage as well. She's a laughing stock. As a person who deplores the likes of Palin, I hope she sticks around because she's a lightweight. In fact, I heard that upon her recent trip to Iraq, she had to obtain a passport! She's never been abroad!!

DD: Those small town losers that cling to religion and guns are among the dumbest among our population. Obama may not have been PC when he said it, but he was right. If only they were smart enough to vote in their best economic interest...but they're not. That's why they're bitter.

DD writes: "Sarah Parah"

Dang! I thought you wrote "Sarah Pariah".

Oh, man, I just cracked up reading your post the first time....it was the beautifully perfect Fruedian slip/blunder.

D'oh!

P.S. She'll be gone by the end of the week.

>>Those small town losers that cling to religion and guns are among the dumbest among our population.

very telling of your thoughts of conservative idealogy...very telling...

>>Creationism is not a theory. It's a fable

the modern day computer has disproven Darwinism.

Look it up...

>>She'll be gone by the end of the week

if that happens she was not meant to be the next VP but it won't happen. ALL conservative circles I've been around over the weekend approve of McCains choice even with the "scandals"...which don't even begin to rise to the level of real controversary.

.....ROVE, the father of the Georgia Russian War.....

....Tell me you don't really believe that......

If you truly do then here's a whopper right back at you.

When Obama becomes president, It will be the american version of the Zimbabwe land swap. White people will be ordered off of their property so that disadvantaged minorities, native americans and illegal immigrants can move in and take over. California, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and part of Colorado is to be returned to Mexico, and the Gasden purchase is to be ruled null and void with Mexico to keep the money as payment for war atrocities committed by American soldiers at Veracruz. Also as part of the settlement the american people will not be allowed to "Remember the Alamo" and a new history will be written (appearing in school text books beginning 2010) to show the Texas squatters of the 1830s were actually drunken criminals and disgraced militarists who had escaped from eastern prisons and went on a wild killing/raping spree led by ex-militiaman Jebidiah Ambruster Bush, distant relation to future war criminal, elitist, and election stealing George "the boy king" Bush.
Hey, and I'm also hearing that anyone of color will be able to own up to 6 white people!

(the scary part is some nut bag would believe every word of that as well)

Heard the fine Senator Obama say that Families are OFF LIMITS for bashing.

TOTALLY AGREE except that Bloodthirsty Oil Whore, Cheney still has that lezbo daughter. With Big Dick and the Shrub supporting the McCain ticket, that lezzie cloud ought to bring some rain this time around.

So, how's that for political incorrectness? I think I got everyone into the mix there, but my apologies if I missed any group.....

Why do we go thru this crapola every election?

Come on take the high road.

If S.P. is unqualified then so be it, but the personal dumpster diving, doesn't make the opponent larger.

Palin= underqualified.
Biden= overqualified.

Both distasteful to different people for different reasons....

Remember stick to the issues

McCain eats babies.....
Obama kicks puppies....

(btw for you newsies) the Clintons had Ohio congresswoman and state coordinator for Hillary, Tubby Steffy Jones, "Fostered" for failure to deliver the Cleveland vote to Hill

forget the undercard, Stick to the Marquee fight:

John "seven houses" McCain
...........vs.............
Barrack "baby face" Obama


Everybody sing......
Barrack, Barrack OH-BA-ME
He floats like a butterfly
and stings like a bee,
Barraky the black superman,
who calls to the other guy
I'm OH-BA-ME
catch me if you can..............

Sorry Roger but you might need to look up the address for the nearest psycho ward...God help ya.

Well, well!!

At least she brings some spark to the discussion! Man, Jon Stewart and Colbert are gonna have a field day with this woman. You just know they want Obama, for a lot of the reasons we do, but they are seriously gonna miss all that sweet GOP material.

As for the rest of it -->science and religion are two DIFFERENT things. Deal.

Creationism is not a theory. It's a fable and has no place in public education, any more than the theory of the Lochness Monster.

Creationism is as much of a theory as evolution is.

Neither one can be proven 100% scientifically.

Some folks believe that God created man and some folks believe that Mr. and Mrs. Amoeba got together and man crawled out of the swamps.

What I'm saying is that if you are going to teach one, the other should be taught as well.

>>if you are going to teach one, the other should be taught as well.

Agreed...when I was in private high school a million years ago we were taught both then...the problem is Darwinism has been accepted in the PC world/liberal education community as truth and shunned/not taught Creationism...need a change in the system.

I think both are a waste of time. Much more important things to teach in school. If you're interested in the subject matter do an independent study.

Creationism is NOT a theory. It's hearsay. Fable. It's a story made up to explain where we came from. Science and anthropology disprove it. Smart people understand that, dumb people in denial don't.

Only a fool believes that a made up person with special powers snapped his fingers and, walla, here we are!

Talk about gullible.

There is not one ounce of scientific evidence that points to creationism being reality. And the bible doesn't count as evidence.

Schools are not in business to teach rumor.

There's no proof we crawled out of the swamp either.

Teach both or better yet as Chris mentioned above, teach important things.

Like I said, smart people understand it, dumb people in denial don't.

You're an example of the latter, with all due respect of course.

walla = voila'

>>teach important things

how we came into existance/the beginning of humanity/our universe is kinda an important thing to study/know...unwise to not know/research/study.

I know how to spell voila', I used "walla" intentionally for "WT" effect. I'm not a maroon.

They should BOTH be taught in school.

Evolution in Science classes, Creationism in Religious studies.

This is where they belong.

>>teach rumor

good grief...the Biblical account of creation has long been written/around longer than any of us posters...I dog-gone long rumor if one...but it's not.

There have been plenty of things taught that turned out to be proven wrong. How long they have been taught has NO bearing on how truthful they are.

Right?

Say it, Broadway.

I've been teaching my son that being left handed is of the devil. Does that make it truthful because I've been telling him that since he was born?

No. Say it.

I'm not going to get into a theological debate with you, Broadway, because you will pull your usual " Good grief / it's above my pay grade / I'll pretend you didn't ask me a direct question and distract you from having to hear my unstable logic."

Just stop now, please.

>> being left handed is of the devil

where is there printed/documented evidence that the above statement is true/informaton around for thousands of years and read by millions?

God invented southpaws!

......."need to look up the address for the nearest psycho ward"..........

Why? Did my post go over your head?

I thought it brilliantly created the same garbage and blatant untruths that bring out the rabid dogs, The Rove comment by saveitnow prompted my imagination to create a few fables of my own. I stand by every word that I made up as a showcase for how easily politics swerves into low class mud slinging lies, and character assassinations.

BTW, I'm left handed as well.

So, Bass Walla.

So, now Sarah Palin's daughter is supposed to be 5 months pregnant, which essentially shoots down the theory that she was pregnant and gave birth to Trig instead of SP.

That's all well and good, and I hope it does put the issue to rest. However, wasn't SP's daughter sick with mono the final 4-5 months of school, which would have coincided with the time period she allegedly conceived this time?

Just wondering.

>>.the Biblical account of creation has long been written/around longer than any of us posters...I dog-gone long rumor if one...but it's not.


Including what Bill Maher calls the Talking Snake?

See, this is why conservatism is on the ropes. What used to be a common-sense political philosophy built on self-reliance, individual freedom, government only where necessary, and especially not spending what you don't have, has been taken over by fundamentalists who take literally the allegorical oral tradition of a Bronze Age civilization, treat it as absolute fact, and act like you're un-American if you just can't buy it. Unbelievable.

May we have a moment of science, please?

>>I thought it brilliantly created the same garbage and blatant untruths that bring out the rabid dogs,

Roger...sorry...I take back my comments made about you...thot about them afterwards and don't want to effect your creative writings/expressions...might want to put a disclaimer after??

"See, this is why conservatism is on the ropes. What used to be a common-sense political philosophy built on self-reliance, individual freedom, government only where necessary, and especially not spending what you don't have, has been taken over by fundamentalists who take literally the allegorical, symbolic literature of a Bronze Age civilization, treat it as absolute fact, and act like you're un-American if you just can't buy it. Unbelievable."

I give Eastwood a bronze star for that comment. True conservatism has been flushed by the Religious Right, and those of us who buy into true conservatism have flew the coop.

Thank you!

Funny though, Creationism only appeared in recent years. With God being all powerful and mighty and all, it seems He really doesn't need anyone's help in cramming stuff down people's throats. He is capable of doing it Himself. But has chosen not to. Most certainly He hasn't suggested that some of you clobber others with a Creationism bat. This is not the kind of God He is.

And why don't creationists include the brain, and the ability to use it to figure things out, among the wonders of Creation?

gee, I feel like im working again at a religious radio station. can we return to the thread subject.

>>I feel like im working again at a religious radio station

Steve...I know you wanna be...

>> He really doesn't need anyone's help in cramming stuff down people's throats

not cramming here...just expressing/responding to posters here...trying to make things fair and balanced?

>>act like you're un-American if you just can't buy it

never made that accusation...just expressing what I feel along with many millions of people for thousands of years feel is truth...and you can read it/try to disprove it for yourself...just pick up your Bible.

but also a good read...The Case for Faith By Lee Strobel

"native americans...can move in and take over"

I'd like a beach house, please!
And the 'Roosevelt Room' at Timberline Lodge.

That's all.

Broadway, you really should try to evolve. It's painless.

Leave him alone. He's due karma pain at the Pearly Gates. (Yup, God's into karma.)

Sorry Merk, Wife has dibs on the Roosevelt room, but will make sure you are on the short list for a beach house........

*******DISCLAIMER**********

for legal purposes

The above posting:

Author: Roger
Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 5:59 am.

Is a fictionalised account of political rumour mongering and the thoughts expressed within are not endorsed by the poster, respondents, casual reader, staff and management of PDX radio, or any sane rational human being.
Though written as an outlandish spoof to show how outrageously low political discussions can become, it was not the intent to portray any scenairo within as factual. The author is not responsible for any actions taken by some tin foil hat wearing loonie along the Rogue river or Idaho compound should they fail to realize the actual nature and context of the aforementioned post and decide to incorporate it into their philosophy. No animals were harmed during the writing of that post.

*****DISCLAIMER FOR REGULAR PEOPLE*****

weren't a word of truth to it except that public record shows that current sitting VP Dick Cheney does indeed have a daughter who has chosen to live an alternative lifestyle....

NOT that there's anything wrong with that.

(sorry Mrs. M guess the beach house is off)

(quietly sobbing)

Were you recently visited by people in cheap suits and bad shoes and forced to post the above?

Puss.

He was visited by the new homeland security bureau, Section 8!

Meow, purr purr.

I had the Jack Nichcolson Cuckoos Nest Lobotomy,

and now have been duly smothered by the Indian!

]:-d

Actually, people seem to get so caught up in Politics they take every word they read as truth.

Besides broadways first impression, I had two emails asking where I got my info on Obama's land redistribution plan, one chastising me for referring to Cheneys daughter as a lezbo, and one more letting me know that Sam Houston was in charge of the Texans and they were pioneers NOT drunken criminals and there was no Jebidiah Armbruster Bush.......

Hmmph!

See what I am dealing with?

I may have to just stick to threads titled "The fliers are rooming, Toast, for or against, and Wat you tink bout jammin- raspberry or blackberry".

Now there's a rumor that Palin has had an affair! Keep in mind, it's the National Enquirer, but then again, they did break the story on Edwards.

ST. PAUL -- John McCain's top strategist today denounced a report in the National Enquirer, hours after it was published, as "disgraceful."

"The smearing of the Palin family must end," spokesman Steve Schmidt said in an e-mail distributed to journalists.

The Enquirer, which exposed John Edwards's extramarital affair, cited unnamed sources in alleging that the Alaska governor had an affair with a business associate of her "fisherman husband," Todd Palin -- the story doesn't say when -- and that he found out and severed relations with the man.

"The allegations contained on the cover of the National Enquirer insinuating that Governor Palin had an extramarital affair are categorically false," Schmidt said. "It is a vicious lie. Governor Palin is the most popular governor in the country. She is a proven leader, an accomplished executive, a champion for ethics reform, and a fighter against corruption. The efforts of the media and tabloids to destroy this fine and accomplished public servant are a disgrace. The American people will reject it."

The mainstream media might well have ignored the unsubstantiated allegation, as they did for eight months in the Edwards saga. But the McCain's team quick response in defending the Arizona senator's running mate had the effect, intentionally or otherwise, of giving the story more prominence.

Schmidt, who told The Washington Post Tuesday that the news media are "on a mission to destroy" Palin, lumped the media and tabloids together in his blast against the Enquirer.

The supermarket tabloid also deals with the pregnancy of Palin's 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, which the governor acknowledged Monday. The tabloid quotes an insider as saying that the governor wanted to announce that Bristol was expecting and had set a wedding date before McCain went public with his vice-presidential choice. But, the story says, the baby's father, high school student Levi Johnston, balked at the plan.

WEEKLY WORLD NEWS SAYS BRISTOL CARRYING ALIEN CHILD. (stock photo of almond eyed alien on cover)

Sean Hannity has now stated that the legitamacy of modern day journalism has ended with all of the Palin stuff beginning with the bloggers to mainstream press with little validity.

Sean Hannity doesn't get to "state" anything with authority. He's a hack, nothing more.

No wonder why liberals are called elitists and snobs.

While McCain owns 37 houses in 27 different states that he's never been to and is personally worth more than 100 million?? Yep those dam Liberals are elitists. What's Bush worth? His Dad? Damn Liberals are all elitists!!!!

the rich "elitists" are on both sides of the isle...snobs...well...different for everyone...

Sean Hannity broadcasts more fiction than the National Enquirer could ever dream of.

And the true "elitists" are those that are born into wealth or marry into wealth. As Pearl Jam once sang about Bush, "Born on third, thinks he got a triple." They never made it on their own, they rode the coattails of someone else. Obama is SELF MADE!

>>Obama is SELF MADE

on a government funded education...just a little help.

A government funded education? Please explain.

Explain?

Shirley you can't be serious?

Please show proof of how Obama received a "government funded" education.

Of course you would never say that about anyone that's white, right? I see a little tint of racism in your comment. As in, he wouldn't be nothing if it wasn't for all the handouts blacks get, right?

>> received a "government funded" education

show us he did not....

Screw all your petty nonsense.

Look at some real feedback

Broadway, you made the claim, so prove it.

But, you won't, because you can't.

You're just another ignorant person posting BS that you have no idea about.

Broadway, will you at least define " government funded education."? CAN you define it?

You mean, like, public school? Are you saying he went to a public school?

Damn Liberals are all elitists!!!!

except for those hollywood stars and recording artists. How about some wind mills in the hills above those multi million dollar homes in the hollywood hills? Wonder if Nancy Pelosi will push for a wind farm across the bridge in Marin County? Ms P sure isn't deciding whether to skip the car insurance payment so she can cover the electric bill this month. How is poor Ted the K going to cover those expensive medical bills at his age, medicaid? Is George Clooney eligible for food stamps between films? I just shudder to think how Michele and Barrack can raise a family in that little two bedroom bungalow they call home.

Personal wealth? Good for all of them. Congrats to all of em. Now let's make sure the club remains open to all who can make it.

P.s. Oprah, How many houses do you have?

Hell when I lived in Tacoma the News Tribune ran a story on the areas biggest property owners. There were a couple of slum lords who owned hundreds of substandard houses within the city.

Curious as to Obama's 160+ Present votes.... rather he voted abstain if something in the bills was distressing. Present portrays "NO STAND"

It's all bullshit, Roger.

What matters is whether people are better off than they were after 8 years of Republican policy which has yielded absofuckinglutely nothing good. News flash: We're not.

It's all over for the GOP. 2006 was just a warm up.

Look up what a "present" vote means in regards to the Illinois legislature and then get back to us.

Present=here KEEP IT SIMPLE. So what does a majority of Present votes on a bill accomplish?
Now then what does IS really mean?.....

Sometimes I think you just look for an argument.

I've heard his explaination on why the "PRESENT" votes. I think Abstain is a more effective response....semantics really, nothing more. Don't give yourself a wedgie over something so minor.


What is bullshit? Agreed on the rest of the post (see vote your wallet thread) Nope I'm not better off either, in fact, I am so far backwards It will take years in a good economy to get even. Sad part is I'm not seeing good times ahead since the Dems got control of the house and senate either. Reps blew it when they had all the marbles. I'm not seeing the light with Dems holding all the cards come Jan. Maybe you need a few more election cycles to see what matters most once someone gets to call D.C. a second home. It doesn't seem to be you and me no matter who moves in......

Present means NO.

Not looking for an argument, just looking to hold you accountable when you post nonsense. Look up how "present" votes work in the Illinois legislature and get back to me.

I'll chime in here. This was an issue raised by Hillary during the primaries--she's given the McCain camp quite a bit of ammo. A present vote can be a way of diplomatically avoiding taking a position that would benefit one constituency at the expense of another. Chicago (one of my home towns) is a mosaic of distinct ethnic and economic constituencies that are frequently at odds, and representing them requires a balancing act. Of course that can be simplified into a refusal to take hard positions on the issues, and sometimes that may be true. Other times it's a matter of picking your battles. Frankly, it'd be refreshing to have a President who's capable of keeping everyone at the table, instead of the us vs. them mentality that pervades our politics. Like Broadway says, sad.

Here's more: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

then vote no.

No question of intent then is there?

If your conviction is no, then say no.

Don't cloud it.

So if present means no then no need to ever vote no.

Does "not present" signify a yes vote?

Representive Dave?

Dave's not here.

We'll put that down as a yes then.

Okay you jerks. A "Present" vote means I support the bill, but I want it sent back to committee to be improved.

A "No" vote means I'm against the bill and nothing can make the bill better.

A "Yes" vote means the bill is as good as it is going to get.

In most of the country you hear legislators say they don't like the bill but vote yes, because it's the best they will get.

The Illinois system is a compromise where you have to vote "no" to kill a bill, but you vote present until you get the bill you want and then vote "yes". The "Present" vote is usually on proceedure votes.

Sorry I had to do the work Vitalogy, because to many righties still feel if all of the illegals were removed they would be making $100,000 a year. Yet they won't make $100,00 because they don't know anything about effort.

I had no idea it meant that. Frankly, I didn't even know that was a term used, much less what it actually meant.

Now Broadway, say you're sorry and that you were wrong.

Oh, and I'm still waiting to see if you will answer this -

" Broadway, will you at least define " government funded education."? CAN you define it?

You mean, like, public school? Are you saying he went to a public school? "

.....I want it sent back to committee to be improved.

so it does mean NO.

Ordering in an Illinois restaurant

"I'll have the steak well."

"Here's your steak"

"This is rare I said well"

"You ordered a steak, this is a steak."

"DO you want it?"

"NO, it's not what I ordered."

"take it back and bring it to me as I ordered."

You want me to return the steak?

"Yes."

"So you do want it."

"NO, not as presented. Take it back and fix it".

"Can't do that."

"WHY?"

"You didn't vote present when it wasn't acceptable."

"Yes means you take it as is. No means you don't want it. Present means you want the steak but it has a flaw and needs to be amended."

Now I get it.


fun spoiler.

Except that you DO get it better when you send a steak back. They don't say " Can't do that." So I don't see how your analogy is accurate.

And you need to factor in in the probability that it has a big wad of spit on it when you get it back.

WOW... sometimes you are WAAAAAAAAY too serious

I vote Present on CJ. I like him, but he has to go back to committee and return with a sense of humor.......

Better analogy?

Yes.

I thought you were trying to show us how voting " present " gets the same results as voting " no." It was a whole new batch of information that I didn't know about and I missed that you didn't actually believe what you were saying.

Like I said in another thread, I can miss very obvious things sometimes.

Plus, I have so many achilles heels that you'd think I was the spawn of an octopus rasied near a nuclear plant. One of them is is my inability to be swayed by arguments that have a tone of " You believe that? You shouldn't. And here is why; It's like...blah blah blah." When it never really NEEDS an analogy. The actual case being discussed is it's own perfect example. No need to bring beef and restaurants into the conversation.

It would be like trying to show you how I have an achilles' heel by using the analogy of octopus having heels. They don't. So the analogy doesn't work for me and to try and convince you otherwise, uses logic that is shaky and has many holes.

So my point is that octopi to not have heels. I'll concede that Sigmund The Sea Monster is actually a metaphor for a Trojan Horse. But that's as far as I'll go with regards to any octopus having direct knowledge of, or experience with Greek or Roman mythology and poetry.

I rest my case.

yum, cal-ah-mar-ee sounds good right now.LOL