A couple was celebrating their golden wedding anniversary. Their domestic tranquillity had long been the talk of the town.
"What a peaceful & loving couple!"
A local newspaper reporter was inquiring as to the secret of their long and happy marriage.

"Well, it dates back to our honeymoon," explained
the man. "We visited the Grand Canyon and took a trip down to the bottom on the canyon by horse. We hadn't gone too far when my wife's horse stumbled. My wife quietly said,
'That's once'."
"We proceeded a little further and the horse
stumbled again. Once more my wife quietly said,
'That's twice.'
"We hadn't gone a half-mile when the horse stumbled the third time. My wife quietly removed a revolver from her purse and shot the horse dead.
"I started an angry protest over her treatment to
the horse, while I was shouting; She looked at me, and quietly said,"

'That's once'.

"And we lived happily ever after."

Here is a funny toast I found that is "NO SECRET" to a happy marriage!

To our wives and lovers...may they never meet!

The secret to a happy Marriage???

Being married to YOURSELF!! Not being tied down is the secret to happiness.

Absolutely 100% agreed Justin!

*starts singing*
'Tis a gift to be single
'Tis a gift to be free........... ;o)

Im not even married and I'm living in HELL with a woman who is driving me crazy! Being single is so much easier. I have friends that got married when they were 19 and 20. I always thought they were CRAZY. And they were crazy because most of them are divorced today and MUCH MUCH happier.
The old ball and chain thing doesn't excite me.
Men were never bread to be manogamous, its not in our genes, plus most guys cheat on their wifes. Statistically that is true!

"Im not even married and I'm living in HELL with a woman who is driving me crazy! Being single is so much easier. I have friends that got married when they were 19 and 20. I always thought they were CRAZY. And they were crazy because most of them are divorced today and MUCH MUCH happier."

I dated a girl several years ago and she absolutely drove me nuts. I am not going to go into any real detail about our relationship, other than the fact that carnivores (myself) and herbivores (her) are *completely incompatible*.

Oh yeah......if you *do* want some little between-the-lines details, Sublime seems to have summed it up in rather uncanny (almost surreal) accuracy in their cut "Summer Time".............

Thank the Gods we never got married. Either I'd probably have put a bullet through my head by now or I would be spending each day getting really, really stoned, dude....... ;o)

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My girl is a vegitarian also, and that has also put a HUGE STRAIN on our relationship. We can never go out to eat because of the limited Vegitarian items on the menu.
I agree- Carnivores and herbivores are not compatable!

She can go eat her Tofu hot dogs while I GO OUT AND EAT A HUGE GREASY CHEESEBURGER!!!

Justin, hopefully your girl doesn't know you post here, and doesn't know your author name. If so, you may find a large cucumber inserted in a place you don't want.

Just sayin'

Well having spent 30 years single and been happily married for many years now, I can certainly understand where Justin is coming from.

My 20s were trying to figure it all out. Sowed my wild oats, did my stupid stuff, dated some good women and one that was pretty intense.

I wasn't "looking' to get married when "SHE" walked into my life. The difference between the women I had dated and was serious about and my wife was the way my family and friends reacted to her. They were falling all over themselves telling me "she's a keeper."

I still know the date and approximate time of day we were introduced. It was just under 3 years later we were married. And it's been the best ride of my life. Not without it's challenges mind you, but we seem to have the capability to handle those times and then move on.

Ironically 8 months after we got married my wife broke out in hives and my friends were kidding me that she was allergic to me. Eventually we both ended up seeing a naturopathic doctor who completely changed our diet since we both were dealing with a nasty yeast infection. I dropped 16 pounds I didn't know I was even carrying.

So here's the deal Justin, at least what I've learned. My wife brings out the best me and I try to reciprocate. Mutual respect is big with us. Negotiate and compromise is all apart of any important relationship. The word Love is spelled W-O-R-K. That's a direct quote from my dad who was married 55 years.

And Word up Warner. Be careful where you vent.

That 's my 2 cents.

In the mid 1990s, I tried to do the vegetarian thing, but I found out that in the real world (aka outside of our college's dormitory cafeteria) sticking to a vegetarian diet is not always feasible. Furthermore, I got scared away from vegetarianism by vegetarians and vegans who held the attitude that "doctors and dietitians don't understand the vegetarian lifestyle, so they're not worth listening to. Just don't eat meat and as long as you're not getting sick, you're doing the right thing."

Oh and by the way, my wife was 19 and I was 20 when we got married. This coming November will mark 34 years. So it can be done. Not easily mind you, but it can.

Of course, we are both meat-eaters...

That's just it. Carnivores should marry carnivores and herbivores should marry herbivores, but combinations rarely (if ever) work out. Kinda' like trying to mix oil with water.

Especially true if you are a carnivore dating a vegan (or vice versa.) That is where I have first-hand experience! (She launched into a huge tirade when she came over to my Folks' house for Thanksgiving 2004 and discovered that--horror of horrors--they were actually serving REAL TURKEY! That may have been the "coup de grace" of our relationship right there, if I don't count the big "T-Bone Steak Scandal of Summer 2005" as a factor among other unrelated problems we had.

*Tisk tisk tisk tisk tisk.......*

Oh yeah--sometimes you get workable combinations, such as omnivores marrying herbivores but from what I have seen happen in my little "circle of friends" it ain't always gonna work..... ;o)

Well I'm about 90 percent vegetarian. No red meat for sure, but chicken and fish if I need too or am in a position where the choices are slim.

I guess I haven't been around those hostile vegan/vegetarians.

We had Thanksgiving at my house last year and my girl was INSISTING that we have a TOFURKEY for thanksgiving. I Told her there was no way I was eating a Tofurkey. Well after she broke down in tears, I finally gave in and we had the damn Tofurkey. Lets just say it was the most disgusting thing I have ever eatin in my life and my parents(who are not vegitarians) HATED IT!

Thanks for the kind words Chris. And by the way if you have any names of any good naturopathic doctors I love to hear about some becaue I'm breaking out with hives all over my face. I think its a sun rasch, but I'm not sure. Is there certain foods you should exclude from your diet that can cause hives??? Just curious. (Please don't say meat!)

Eating TOFURKEY would rob one of the tryptophan-induced drowsiness that is associated with Thanksgiving dinner. Isn't that supposed to be part of the Thanksgiving experience?

Hives happen for many reasons Justin. It's the result of your body under some kind of stress. Could be dietary or something else or a combination of things.

Our 15-year-old daughter currently is battling hives due to bad eating and staying up way too late.

One of the things we do is go on a very strict diet. No sugars, or yeast. That means no fruits and most bread. There are some substitutes but you may not like them.

Also we take what's called acidophilus in liquid form. I usually get the strawberry flavor with the brand name Nature's Life. A few ounces of this stuff really help your digestion.

How I understand it there is good and bad yeast. When we have too much bad yeast it eats all the nutrients from the food we eat. It feeds on sugars and fats. It can over take your entire digestive track. By putting in good yeast or enzymes they kill the bad yeast.

Along with the hives you may be feeling lethargic or run down. I had a really bad yeast infection a few years ago that I was getting really bad cramps from my intestine. It was doubling me over. I went to Fred Meyer's nutrition center bought some acidophilus took some and then laid down. Almost instantly my cramps faded. I watched what I ate over the next 3-4 days and came out on the other end, literally, feeling great.

I do have a naturopathic doctor I can recommend. Feel free to email me and I’ll get you the information.

Good info! Thanks Chris.

My wife has been vegetarian for almost 20 years and it has effected our marriage very little. In restaurants it only challenges her to find something she can eat and we pick accordingly. At home I don't eat much meat but more salad based foods and don't miss meat much till I have some but I know it's more healthy to limit it. The only real disaster was in Europe where there are no-zip-zero-nada vegatarian-non smoking restaurants...hoorible for 2 weeks there!

I worked with a gal who lived a vegan lifestyle -- and that was fine. But what I found appalling was her decision to put her cat on a vegan diet as well. Crazy.

People that don't eat meat are weird. Humans are not designed to be strictly vegan.

Broadway I will concur about the European dinning experience. You have some very intelligent minds over there but for some reason they allow smoking in restaurants. I witnessed moms and dads smoking right next to little kids. The second hand smoke made the dinning experience difficult.

When I was in Denmark last year everything had a heavy cream or dairy product. I don't drink milk anymore and stay away from cheese. Limited on meats. Plus they drink coffee at every meal and I don't care for coffee.

So at this one little town in northern Denmark we were visiting a 95-year-old relative of my dad's and were served heavy pastries, coffee with heavy cream and cheese. A woman was smoking in the small apartment while we were having this gathering.

In order to show courtesy I allowed them to pour me some coffee and I took the food they gave me and put it on my plate. During the course of the conversation my older sister whispered, "Give me your cup of coffee and food plate." We did this when no one was looking and it made me look like I had enjoyed the meal.

Vita-if I try to eat beyond what my body can handle I feel like crap. Over the years I have been able to find wonderful alternatives to foods I used to enjoy. I'm healthier now than I was at 25.

No booze, no coffee, no dairy, hardly any meat...yet I eat very well with fruits and veggies from my wife’s edible landscaping along with other foods from New Seasons and Trader Joes. I am eating foods now I would have never thought I would have a taste for.

Recently discovered a wonderful vegetarian cafe in the Beaumont District called the Blue Moose Cafe. Going there for my birthday with the family.

If I go very long without meat, I start craving it. Same goes with milk and cheese. And if you are craving something, doesn't that mean that your body is missing some sort of vitamins that are in meat???

The other day I was craving meat so I had to make an Emergency stop at Burgerville.

I don't think I could be a vegitarian even if I wanted to (which I don't) I have been eating meat for all my life, I think my body would go into shock if I stoped eating all red meats.(Seriously)

There is a lot of protein in meat, and I think it would be hard to get the same aount of protein on a vegitarian diet. Yes I know there are some protein items for vegans like Tofu, but I would bet the protein content is not nearly as high as a steak. And you would have to eat twice as much to get enough Protein as in a big JUICY PRIME RIB.

Sorry Guys I can't live on rabbit food like most vegans, Im a steak Potatoes type of guy. Always have been and always will be.

I worked at a restaurant in SE Portland -- Hawthorne area that made excellent vegan pastries. They pastry cooks did a good job of making a variety of items that sold well to vegans and non-vegans alike.

Every body is different. (Classic understatement)

Sometimes cravings can be for certain proteins or lacking vitamins but not always. Some of the same proteins can be found in non-meat products. It's just getting educated.

Being vegetarian is certainly not for everyone. My sister-in-law can't even cook meat because it makes her sick. Her daughter became vegetarian but she found herself getting sick because the meat offered some of the proteins she needed. She doesn't have meat with every meal and certainly not everyday, but has added it back into her diet.

I usually eat meat if I'm out doing a DJ gig where my choices are limited. This past weekend I had some really great salmon, which is a staple at many wedding receptions. I just stayed away from the steak and wedding cake. The bride and groom wanted to make sure I had enough beer, but I told them I don't drink alcohol, but the water and punch was perfect.

You know your body better than anyone. But it doesn't hurt to look into other alternatives. As I've gotten older my body has changed along with my appetite. I don't need to eat as much, portion wise. I do more grazing throughout the day thus I eat less at mealtime.

Since I'm a fitness freak I need to be drinking lots of water. But I will drink some juices and make killer non-dairy smoothies.

A good Naturopathic Doctor can give you some good information and you can glean from it what you want.

Chris--

Part of what you mentioned (stuff about smoking) I have never been able to understand myself:

How is it that a guy who is seemingly healthy and very active, in his 40s can have a heart attack and die at that age, while the guy who smokes a pack a day, sits in front of the TV constantly and consumes the fatty foods, alcohol and such can live well into his 90s?

(Seriously--my Great Uncle on my Mum's side fits well into the latter category--he will be 97 in a week, smokes like a chimney and drinks like Norm Petersen--whilst my Dad's Cousin, never smoked or took alcohol a moment in his life, just died two months ago at 43 of a heart attack. What's their secret??)

Genetics.

Its Called having good genes Motzak2!! My grandpa is 90 years old, in perfect health eats RED meat like crazy, smokes and is a heavy drinker. He was blessed with good genes. Some people are fortunate to live a life of excess and live to the ripe old age of 90, some are unfortunate and live to 50 and die of a heart attack.
I firmly believe that genetics IS more important than life style. Im not saying that you should be able to eat anything you want BUT if your ancestors, grandparents are living into their 90's with no health problems, chances are you will too., regardless if you're living on a Mcdonalds diet or not. My 90 year old Grandpa eats Big macs almost everyday, and has been for most of his life, those Big Macs haven't killed him yet!

"No booze, no coffee, no dairy, hardly any meat..."

Chris, I love ya like a brother and all, but that sounds like my version of Hell.

Moto- Justin and Vita are spot on.

I took a test through my naturopathic doctor that can check your genes for possible problems down the road. This was not available until the last year or so.

The gene test is a roadmap that can look ahead for possible problems. You can start doing preventative measures now. Sometimes it may be a supplement or dietary change.

My family has both longevity and poor health issues. So I'm not taking any chances. I take supplements through my naturopathic doctors advice. I get tested monthly to make sure I'm on course. We make adjustments as needed.

I just try and be as informed as I can and then make the right choices. Nothing is guaranteed, but I want to give myself the best opportunity to live a long and healthy life.

We live in a time of great medical advancement, so I'm taking advantage of it.

"Chris, I love ya like a brother and all, but that sounds like my version of Hell."

My prior eating habits made it a living hell for me. Thus the change. Man do I feel great. And I'll kick your butt just to show off!! (wink, wink...cyber hug)

I'm sure you could, so let's not go there!

Okay, I'll cut back on the meat, coffee, and dairy.

3 out of 4 ain't bad, eh?

I've lost over 40 lbs and although I am technically still a carnivore, I limit my meat. When I get the urge, I certainly don't indulge in cheap fast food meat. I'll buy Oregon Country Beef once in a while and limit my portion to about a 4 ounces serving. Or a Lean Cuisine that has an even smaller portion.

I eat chicken and turkey, keeping the portions under 6 oz.

And I mostly eat seafood. Salmon and halibut, mostly. 4 to 6 oz portions.

Lots of fresh vegetables. I currently have too much lettuce in the garden ready for eating ... anybody want some?? ...

I ride my bike 5 days a week when possible ... about 70 miles a week. I jogged for 14 years but my legs started cramping after an injury, so I've been on sabbatical for about a year, biking instead.

Lifestyle is what you have to change if you want better longevity unless you are blessed with the most robust of genes. My Dad died young (54), my Mom died old (82). They both smoked cigs, Mom for 65 years. I've never smoked cigs. Yet, I realize that is no panacea for other challenges that can take you out.

I wish I had started in sooner, but better late then never.

And it's a battle that doesn't end. Lifestyle changes are just that.
Not a temporary inconvenience. Not a fad diet.

I was a naysayer until I finally found a way that works for me.
I've used and heard all the excuses for not changing bad eating/exercise habits. I started in exercising a long time before I made the necessary dietary changes that made the exercise regimen pay off. For most it takes both.

My two big risk factors are Parkinson's Disease (mom's dad) and Alzheimer's (dad's mom). This is why I heavily favor stem cell research. Other than that, we're all average to below average weight and live long. No cancer, no heart attacks, low blood pressure, low cholesterol. Oh, being fair skinned I do have to be careful in the sun.

It's been proven over and over again that liberals are best off eating a lot of fat beef and doing no exercise.

Okay Deane that got a good chuckle out of me.

"I finally gave in and we had the damn Tofurkey. Lets just say it was the most disgusting thing I have ever eatin in my life and my parents(who are not vegitarians) HATED IT! "

Timberfake- I don't think this is the soulmate for you. Give in just ONCE like this, and it's all over for you. She'll never, ever respect you again. Never. Maybe Tom Leykis is correct here.. maybe you should dump that bit**. . .

Personally, I would have served tofurkey for the crybaby, but also a huge 24+ pound glorious brown, meaty and steaming turkey for meat-eaters in the family.

What's the biggest cause of relationship troubles: selfishness. Sounds like your crybaby has plenty.

Well selfishness is but one key to failure in a relationship. There has to be give and take.

Food seems to be a weird thing to argue over. You should both respect what the other prefers and not put the other person down for not eating what you like.

But when you're involved with a person intimately you're also involved with their family. That is the true test of your love for the other person. Sometimes it clicks other times......

Food does seem to be a weird thing to argue over, but some vegans are just militant about it. If you are a carnivore, you must just be a shitty human all the way 'round. Unlike many vegetarians, vegans are unwilling to accept or offer compromise to solve the food dilemma, and you're either with them, or against them.

Avoiding any and all animal products does certainly take vigilance and is a lifestyle comparable to trying to keep a Kosher kitchen (two kitchens, in that case) in the midst of a non-Kosher household.

Not a challenge I'd care to take on! Where's that Prime Rib?

"but some vegans are just militant about it;"

Exactly. Just like the pushers of religion, if it was so great, people wouldn't have to be convinced or recruited to "join up."

>>Just like the pushers of religion

don't do...just recommending the Living God to accept in your life when your ready...He's always there for you....

Please don't start preaching religion broadway!!! I respect the fact your religious, but please respect the fact that some of us are atheists(Like myself) and don't want to hear about it.

Good point Beano.

Even in developing relationships as we are doing on this message board, there is decorum or at least issues of respect for all opinions.

I don't understand atheists myself, however it's not my place or position to argue their value system.

It's kind like my crazed Boston Red Sox neighbors across the street. I'm an Orioles fan, but they are my neighbors and in order to maintain civility I allow them to exist.

Allow them to exist!

Classic!

"I don't understand atheists myself, however it's not my place or position to argue their value system."

I'm not sure there are too many full blooded atheists here. Perhaps many are just agnostics. As Vitalogy mentioned, if God is so great, why should we need to be persuaded to join up? But also, and more importantly so, especially for the Broadways and Herbs of the world, your behavior pushes many of us further way.

I was named after a saint and subject to the full Catholic upbringing. Just about everything they do and everything they stand for pushes me further and further away from believing in God. The likes of Broadway and Herb greases the track AWAY from God.

Why the heck would I want to be part of these nutty people and their nutty God? (He may actually not be so nutty, but as described by His nutty followers, I've no reason to think otherwise.)

So, for the Herbs and Broadways of the world, nothing you can say will reverse the damage you caused. Only a direct word from God Himself will do the trick. If you continue to try to be a middleman for God, I'm praying that you become chopped liver. Amen.

Right at this moment, I believe Religion is an artifact of our state of being. We didn't evolve, or simply learn the skills necessary to capture our origins well enough to carry our story forward.

The result is we are a race without a past.

This void within all of us needs to be filled, and that's really the core of theology. It's the same kind of void filled by science.

However we got here, came to be, were deposited, part of cycle, etc... we need to know stuff. We look for meaning.

Given this, I do not believe it's possible for us to know absolutely our origin either. Too much was lost.

A rational value system isn't that hard to understand. In many cases it's the same value system, just expressed differently. Some people need a beginning to reason from, others don't.

I'm one of the latter. We simply don't know our origins, and that then carries forward with clear implications. It also limits the scope of absolutes; namely, in those things that would require truth in our origins to reason through to some rational end.

There are things we know to be absolutely true, there are things we believe to be true and are well supported enough to be considered true enough. Finally, there are just things we believe.

Those things are choices. There isn't enough information to nail it down, so all of us must choose something, or ignore very large segments of reason trusting others instead to do this for us.

This all means, we must reason with some degree of unknowns. That's the 'fuzzy' thinking that some choose to talk down about.

I am at a complete loss as to why people cannot simply make their choice and have others deal out some respect for that choice.

Choosing something, means being able to believe ones thinking is "not fuzzy", but that really is a self-lie. This splits the mind, leaving compartments.

Example: If you do it just once, your mind is split once. There is everything on one side, and everything, minus those things related to the lie, sitting on the other!

Managing that consumes a bit of ourselves, and it cultivates fear as that management is likely to be less than perfect. If caught in the less than perfect state, that lie then is challenged, brought to attention and we must then deal with that.

If we have defined a good portion of ourselves on that lie, then that threat becomes personified and that drives many of the irrational behaviors surrounding these topics.

Better to understand we all get to make choices and move from there. I believe our founders understood this, even if at too low of a level to just out and state it. Perhaps the social needs of the time didn't present an opportunity to do so.

I don't know.

From my point of view then, religion breaks down to a simple division:

those that have chosen to believe, and who recognize their choice as such and who have strong faith and conviction that their choice is the right one

(for these people, it simply is, BTW)

those that come to believe and in the process of doing so, deny that it's a choice, but some absolute instead.

The former group practices healthy, rewarding religion. The latter group is authoritarian, in that believing they have found the absolute, they then project authority onto it and this manifests in the extreme tendency to control others, based on that imaginary authority.

These people do not practice healthy religion, and I consider them a threat to all that do.

The rub for a lot of people comes from trying to figure out how to have faith and strong conviction, while at the same time recognizing it is just a belief.

I don't have the magic answer to this, other than I do believe absolute and total honesty with one's own self makes this possible. There are probably other things involved, again I don't know.

To me, this is a lot like people choosing their favorite color, or something. Nobody knows really why a given color is more favorable to a person. We say a lot about it, have linked colors to emotions, personality types, etc... but at the end of the day, some of us just like red more than blue!

If there is a soul, then it is simply that which makes us unique and is something special, to be valued and enjoyed.

Following through then, accepting Jesus is something that does no harm, may be very rewarding and is a choice all of us remain completely free to make.

We might NEED to make it, for the same kinds of low level human reasons, we NEED to like red better than pink. Being honest about that shows in the lives these people lead. It's a lot like really liking purple, but saying blue because social norms frown on guys liking purple.

How stupid is that really?

Acceptance of these simple things then, lets one see humans for what they are, tolerate them in their many colors, and enjoy sharing with them those things we believe to be true in the world.

And that's the core of my value system! It has clear implications and can be reasoned from quite fully, giving direction on most things, not unlike those directions that come from an artifact. Different too, because it does not require some artifact, but is just acceptance and understanding of the natural world we live in.

I don't think any man made thing holds the answers to this world. I do think our ability to reason, does, but only if we all work hard at it, and work together.

Conversations are valuable, but only if they are real. When they are real, we grow, we inspire, we learn, we bond, we become. When they are false, we fracture, die, un-learn, we fight.

The world then is what we make of it. This impacts how we raise our kids, how we behave around others, why we accept the authority of law and government, and how we see ourselves.

(cont)

Being completely free, and less than perfect, means we need some regulation to get along. We do this so that together we enjoy the maximum degree of freedom possible, leveraging our work as people, to better ourselves and survive.

Doing those things that diminish this, doesn't just harm those we impact at the time. It also impacts us personally, as we must then compartmentalize our being into those bizzare fragments that each can manage to justify away the bad things, leaving the perception of good.

So, being polite is motivated by wanting to be in a world where people can casually meet, talk, do business, and help one another.

Not stealing means living in a world where property can be maintained.

Not living in excess means a world where there is enough to live, thrive, enjoy, love, build, and express ourselves and leave works for others to come after.

and it goes on from there.

I also think it takes considerable strength to be a realist of this kind. Having once made the choice to accept faith, I find it easier to go that route and compartmentalize the ugly parts as being "god's will", and not just manifestations of our less than perfect selves.

I greatly admire those that can choose their faith, whatever it may be, and hold conviction about it, while at the same time recognizing that our freedom to choose in these things is something that exists beyond a doubt.

My own journey that lead here is a direct result of no longer being able to tolerate authoritarian religion. It does not resonate with the natural world and those things that I've come to realize though simple observation, introspection, and conversation.

To not be threatened by what others believe is precious. It's honest and it's not something done easily.

I believe pursuing this state is as rewarding and healthy as any religion is.

Vegetarian - An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter"!!!

The secret of a happy marriage? Getting REAL lucky and knowing it. It makes it kinda hard to intentionally or carelessly mess with it when you get it.