I think we need to put this one to rest. Also up for discussion is conservative in general.

I hate labels. I hate them because they are slippery, subject to redefinition, and because of their indirect nature. Why use a label when more direct language can be used instead?

One good use of labels is to identify groups, or in place of more complex language. All fine and good. This is something to be encouraged, if carefully.

When the labels go bad, and by bad I mean redefined such that multiple significant definitions exist that are conflicting, then we really should examine them and avoid them for a time. Maybe for all time, but that's not often practical.

So, we live with the labels, but that does not preclude having a robust discussion about them.

Right now, the prevailing association is that conservative = Republican. This really does people a disservice. Being a conservative person does not mandate membership in the Republican party.

Parties are defined by the people that have the most influence on them. These days, that's money and really that's not a conservative idea at the core is it?

It's completely possible to be conservative and be Democratic, Green, Labor, Republican, Independent, etc... Clearly then, the idea of conservative is different than Republican.

Some good conservative associations:

conservative = low risk
conservative = small government
conservative = states rights
conservative = individual rights
conservative = strong American values
conservative = frugal -- efficient
conservative = humble
conservative = plain
conservative = traditional
conservative = polite
conservative = responsible
conservative = god fearing

All pretty good stuff. I'll bet each of us has some conservative leanings! I know I do. I like frugal, see plain as having serious merit at times (like clothes --solid colors, no logos are my style, for example), traditional is good too, and there are others.

I like to manage risk. Too much risk and bad things happen. Have had some bad stuff happen and my typical response is to be a bit more conservative to MANAGE my risk going forward.

Most people do this.

The interesting bit here is that these things remain true, no matter what your party affiliation is!

Take smaller government, for example. Both Democrats and Republicans generally favor smaller government. Neither really wants too much of it. There are differences, like military -vs- social programs, but nobody really wants a lot of both.

Really we want the right balance, and simply disagree on what that balance is. That disagreement may depend on how liberal or conservative, radical, or realist, etc... we are.

Now, let's look at what Republicans stand for:

(factoring out just conservative things)

Republican = War
Republican = Privatization
Republican = Big business
Republican = Corporate
Republican = Discrimination
Republican = Theocracy
Republican = Corruption
Republican = Nationalism
Republican = Wealth

That's enough for now.

These are the things we get when we separate conservative from Republican! It's not a complete list, of course, but it's inclusive enough to clearly differentiate the two.

The net result is a false choice! Most discussion is on one axis, maybe two at most, leaving us with few options. Most of this is because of the labels and this divides us, when the reality is we are highly likely to have a lot more common ground than we think we do.

If we buy into the crap going on today, we have to take all the Republican things, with the conservative things because, somebody somewhere, says Republicans are the conservative party, when the reality is Republicans share very few things in common with the core ideas associated with being or acting in a conservative way.

I could go through and do the same for liberal and Democrat. Maybe somebody else will. Would make for an interesting comparison, no?

The point being we are here because of divisive politics. Gross labels are being used to divide us along lots of lines. Wedge issues, such as the G's, or flag burning, terror, etc... mean having to prioritize our values in order to get things done.

I am realistic in that I think that cannot be avoided --we have democracy for that reason and it's good.

However, I also think it's been perverted in such a way as to artificially weight those priorities in ways that convince us --each of us, to not vote our best interests.

Over time, this has lead to a whole lot of things not working in our best interests, leaving us in the mess we are in today.

So, let's also talk about what those common interests are!

(continued)

For me personally, the holistic view of the state of things today is just crap. I've my bright spots, but have worked on really thinking through what is worth what and what beats what in the overall scheme of things.

In my case, these are the things that are not good --or maybe just not as good as they need to be and this does not mean good to the max, just simply not quite good enough:

---overall buying power

Note, this is not gross wages, nor is it living beyond my means --I've scaled back on both, worked to get gains in wage, am still falling behind by as much as 1 percent per day! (and yes, I've done the math on that --it's not pretty.)

I am conservative on this and perfectly willing to work for stuff, to build stuff, so this isn't looking for a handout, but to stop the bleeding so that hard work means more than month to month.

--overall risk burden

Insurance is expensive and comes with a lot of outs, high deductibles, conditions, and dependencies, like health care tied to employment which neither I or my current employer like.

Big corporate America works hard to push risk onto consumers and it's working. Lots of things can happen, and we pay for it. Big profit should carry some additional risk, or maybe just not be so big, IMHO.

--perception of safety / crime

Petty property crime is really escalating. Times are tough and people are having a hard time dealing. Lower the risk equation and this will probably fade. Who knows? Maybe a lot of guns will help too, I'm open, but only if risk goes along for the ride.

Our National bully policy sucks and that's scary to me. We are not really all that viable right now, and it's crashing fast.

--confidence in the performance of the process

There is a lot of money in our political discourse. This has unbalanced things such that an awful lot of what we hear is corporate! And big corporate. I believe this bias distorts core ideas of conservative, liberal, American in ways that again, cause us to vote against our own interests.

So I don't think the process is working all that well today. One bright spot is people to people politics empowered by the Internet, but it's not enough longer term, IMHO.

May well be the spark that gets greater things moving though. Here's to hoping!

--equitable share of the social burden

Already wrote about risk. Risk eventually = lost dollars, so it costs us in that poorly distributed risk impacts us in a negative way.

This line item is here to just put that other one in context. Everything we do comes with risk and that risk is best mitigated with the proper care and feeding of ourselves and our infrastructure.

--quality of political discourse

It's just not all that good. Maybe this is redundant, maybe there is some expansion here...

--crime

I don't think our approach to crime is balanced either. We appear to be gung-ho on many individual crime, theft, rape, murder, etc...

We are surprisingly weak on white-collar corporate crime. Sending a few corrupt CEO's to jail, wouldn't hurt.

--availability of education

College is expensive to the point where a lot of people have to go and ask if it's really worth it. If this is a fair question, and today it is, then we are doing something seriously wrong.

Ordinary public, primary education is growing more spotty by the day. Lots wrong here too.

Finally, if we are to outsource so many things, how come it's not easier to retrain and do those things necessary to adapt? This seems broken to me. If we are to go global, then we need to keep building new things to send global. Without this, we send everything and then what?

Do each others laundry for a robust economy? That's not gonna work, so where's the fix?

Either empower people, or reign in the globalization of things. Can't have both, so we need to pick one, or maybe pick one by industry, so there is balance in trade.

--innovation

It takes money to make money. It also takes money to build out new infrastructure for business to exploit.

We've really exploited the New Deal type build outs to the max, and now what? Are we done, or should we not just go do it again?

To me, this is a very interesting conservative question and I'm conservative in this. Either we manage the exploitation of what we have, thus living within our means, or we recognize that our means is not enough to compete, so we do the build outs and spend our dollars as wisely as we can to better compete, keeping an eye on risk!

Again, we are in this bizzare situation where we are not doing either one! Max exploitation, minimum build out / reinvestment to keep risk at bay!

WTF is it with that? If we all ran our own businesses, you can bet we would do the care and feeding of those things that make the money! We would do this because risk costs too much.

So why is doing this ok then nationally?

(big business wants the profit and for us to pay the risk, that's why and that's not conservative at all!)

--intellectual freedom

Separation of church and state is seeing big hits right now. Each side thinks they have it all right, but they don't. There is WAY too much blind dogma out there for my blood, leaving a rational vacuum that we better fill sooner rather than later, or we will be in trouble on this score.

--ethics / civil liberties

The increasing focus on dollars no matter what is harming us. I think this is mostly a manifestation of the other poorly performing elements putting way too much pressure on people to perform to the max, even when it does not make longer term sense.

The national example currently being set is all about power and results, ends justify means kinds of things. All not good and probably could be improved with better discourse, if nothing else.

So, that's it. These are the things that drive me and my family.

Are those conservative things? Many of them are. Are those Republican things? Democratic things?

Maybe --likely not though, which is my point. These are American things. I'll bet we share a ton of these things, so how come we can't vote our best interests on these things?

That's the main reason I took the O'Riely route and went Independent. The GOP played too much on the RADICAL EXTREME side for the last 7 1/2 years and ruined America.

When the religious right hijacked the Republican Party in 1980, it was downhill from there. The GOP can thank the likes of the late Jerry Farwell and his Moral Majority for turning the Barry Goldwater brand of conservatism on its head. They drove out most of the moderate forces within the party and began a jihadist litmus test that required you to either fall in line or get the hell out. Then they prided themselves on staging campaign events that would do Albert Speer proud. Dissention in the ranks is not tolerated or you’re a bad bunda unworthy of the GOP label.

Just don't call me a progressive. I am a Liberal god damnit!

What about the label of compassionate conservative? Lots of people who are right leaning but it really is mainly a term thrown out there and rarely actually lived by.

In my experiences the compassionate conservative are those that don't overtly wear republican or there values for that matter on there sleaves but instead actually live it on a daily basis.

Shyguy, I think I would agree. That's another label that has been distorted and perverted to our mutual poor interests.

So, everybody: what's your list?

Forget about the labels. Just list them and why. Let's see where the common ground is. If it helps to rebut mine, please to, but express it in terms of a need, your need and what drives it.