Went to the cash station, I mean gas station today. Asked for a fill and did not want to even look at the pump. $4.15 a gallon with a 24 gallon tank sitting on about 1/8th. After a little while and hearing this odd sucking noise the attendant hands me a receipt and asks if I need more, he says there is a $75.00 limit and the pump stops automatically. It was probably so close it did not matter but I refuse to double dip the card to fill my car!!!

Thanks George and Company!

I filled up just yesterday. $4.29.9 for Premium. $66 to fill the tank.
Same tank, same fill June '98: $21
Same tank, same fill June '07: $46

So that war for oil is sure working out nicely.

I've cut way back on my driving. Although I drove 50 miles last Saturday(!) to photograph an event, I didn't drive for the next five days. (Had to drive today to pick up some photo prints.) Living near downtown, close to things I can walk to, and near good public transit, was a conscious choice I made when choosing a place to live, before the current skyrocketing gas prices. I do feel bad for people who have to drive a lot, though, but I do think some people could choose a lifestyle/workstyle that doesn't require as much driving.

Andrew

Plus the DOW is down 400 points today, a barrel of oil is at an all-time high (up $10 over yesterday and expected to reach $160 a barrel by July 4), and unemployment jumped from 5% to 5.5%, the single largest increase in 20 years.

Thank you George W. Bush. I know the Republicans are going to say “it’s not his fault”. Well, when Jimmy Carter was president and the economy was in the tank, who did they blame? It sure as hell wasn’t the tooth fairy.

Wait a minute.

Mr. Bush wants to drill more oil, not the leftists.

Mr. Bush wants to use coal, wood, nuclear, plus liquified natural gas and is willing to allow for their development.

Not the left.

You're barking at the wrong guy. Given the left's insistence against using our natural resources, Mr. Bush even went over to the Saudis to have them open up the spigot some more.

If you want to blame someone, it's not Mr. Bush's fault. Blame the radical left who are laughing whilst you twist in the wind.

Herb

P.S. Mr. Carter's answer was to turn down the thermostat and wear more sweaters.

What's Bush's answer? Oh yeah, his answer is "you're welcome" (to the oil companies).

"Mr. Bush wants to drill more oil, not the leftists."

I for one am grateful Bush does not want to drill leftists.


"P.S. Mr. Carter's answer was to turn down the thermostat and wear more sweaters."

Still a very good idea.
He also had solar panels on the Whitehouse.
Panels that Reagan had removed.

Herb, I need some facts.

When George W took office

1.) What was the cost of a barrel of oil?
2.) What was the unemployment rate?
3.) What was the Deficit?
4.) What was the dollar worth compared with the Euro?

And Today

1.) What is the current cost of a barrel of oil?
2.) What is the current unemployment rate?
3.) What is the current Deficit?
4.) What is the dollar currently worth compared to the Euro?

C'mon, Darktemper, you know the economy was going just great until that damned Democrat Congress came in and just ruined everything...

Andrew

"Herb, I need some facts.

When George W took office..."

Wait a minute. It's the Congress who signs the checks and approves stuff, including this war.

If you're mad at anyone, look to your liberal democrat representatives who never saw a pork-laden spending bill they wouldn't pass.

Herbert Milhous Kissinger the IIIrd

Lets start with numero uno.

January 2001 a barrel of crude was $23.58. So compared with today's $138.75 means that during George W's watch oil has gone up 588.44%.

That's impressive. Now how about the other three Herb?

There's more pork being spent in Iraq than all other pork projects combined. And that's pork that Bush and the obstructionist, filibustering GOP has signed off on.

Herb, that's a cop-out and you know it!

I suppose you blame Clinton because the cost of dry cleaning went up to!

"Wait a minute. It's the Congress who signs the checks and approves stuff,"

Not with an imbecile vetoing every bill that won't line both sides of the Cheney family pockets.

Herb, you're twisted logic fits the profile of every right wing authoritarian that ever walked the planet. Here it is again in case you missed it the first time:

": Faulty reasoning — RWAs are more likely to:
Make many incorrect inferences from evidence.
Hold contradictory ideas that result from a cognitive attribute known as compartmentalized thinking.
Uncritically accept that many problems are ‘our most serious problem.’
Uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs.
Uncritically trust people who tell them what they want to hear.
Use many double standards in their thinking and judgments.
2: Hostility Toward Outgroups — RWAs are more likely to:
Weaken constitutional guarantees of liberty such as a Bill of Rights.
Severely punish ‘common’ criminals in a role-playing situation.
Admit they obtain personal pleasure from punishing such people.
Be prejudiced and hostile against racial, ethnic, nationalistic, sexual, and linguistic minorities.
Volunteer to help the government persecute almost anyone.
Be mean-spirited toward those who have made mistakes and suffered.
3: Profound Character Attributes — RWAs are more likely to:
Be dogmatic.
Be zealots.
Be hypocrites.
Be absolutists
Be bullies when they have power over others.
Help cause and inflame intergroup conflict.
Seek dominance over others by being competitive and destructive in situations requiring cooperation.
4: Blindness To One’s Own Failings And To The Failings Of Authority Figures Whom They Respect— RWAs are more likely to:
Believe they have no personal failings.
Avoid learning about their personal failings.
Be highly self-righteous.
Use religion to erase guilt over their acts and to maintain their self-righteousness."

When George W took office"

1.) What was the cost of a barrel of oil?

A. $28.66

2.) What was the unemployment rate?

A. 4.0%

3.) What was the Deficit?

A. $5.8 trillion (national debt, not deficit)

4.) What was the dollar worth compared with the Euro?

A. 88 cents buys 1 Euro (the Euro didn't debut until 1/02)

And Today

1.) What is the current cost of a barrel of oil?

A. $138.54

2.) What is the current unemployment rate?

A. 5.5%

3.) What is the current Deficit?

A. $9.4 trillion

4.) What is the dollar currently worth compared to the Euro?

A. $1.55 buys 1 Euro.

Seriously, Andy_brown, one could just as easily ascribe many of those identical behaviours to partisan liberals.

I'm not the bad guy here. As long as we fight terror and save babies, I'm often a 'get along' kind of conservative. I'm even flexible on some (though not very many) anti-2nd Amendment laws.

But mean-spiritedness is on both sides of the aisle. Look at Mrs. Clinton's recent behaviour towards Mr. Obama.

Herbert The 'K'

Andrew I agree that personal lifestyles will come into play. Like you we live in area where we can and do lots of walking. Working from home dramatically changed our driving habits. Being a one-car (van) family has also played a vital role.

You do have some control over your lifestyle and even your work.

Herb: "coal, wood, nuclear, plus liquified natural gas"

Probably some the worst things you can do environmentally. However I won't blame Bush all that much for oil prices he really doesn't pull the string on that, however his clueless understanding of basic economics makes the gas prices that much harder to take.

Then there is this.

http://www.goodnewsdaily.com/show_story.php?ID=8603

Hey Vitalogy, Thanks for knowing what I meant not what I said on that National Debt and not deficit thing....perfect!

So Crude up 588.44%, unemployment up 1.5%, 3.6 trillion increase in debt, and a huge loss in the value of the dollar. Impressive on a resume don't you think.

Chris: Bush deserves more blame for gas prices than you're willing to give him.

1. There's about a 20% premium attached to oil thanks to the Iraq war and other middle east instability he's caused.

2. High oil prices are also a reflection of a weak dollar, thanks to Bush's economic policies.

Not everything is in his control regarding oil, but he's played an integral part in where we are today.

Chris, timber is America's renewable resource.

And I'm for anything the terrorists aren't for, namely a strong America with plenty of power behind it.

I'm okay with solar, wind and alternative fuels, too. But it's going to be a while until they're up and running.

Herbert M.

Vita- It's really a combination of factors that have Bush's signature on it one way or another. I do agree with you on that.

But there is clean tech energy available now and has been available for years that big oil has kept out of the public eye. Solar, wind and alternative fuels are here and now and they are big business.

Herb they are up and running. You really need to get out more.

I think we're all agreed that giving the Saudis our money to fuel terrorist schools is not in the best interest of the US.

What really fries my taters, though, is Iran making plenty of money to fund terror via their sales to China and India.

Herb

How come I used to have a carburated GEO Metro that got 45mpg and you can't get a non-hybrid car today that gets better the 35mpg? I had a carbed plymouth with a 2.5 litre that got 35mpg and my wifes car with a Toyota 1.8 litre fuel injected motor only get 28mpg. The current oil company regulated emissions standards might have something to do with it I guess.

Gonna buy me a Chevy Volt at 150 mpg next year when they roll out...then some GM stock too...

"Mr. Bush wants to drill more oil, not the leftists."

Mr. Bush filed for bankruptcy after being unable to find oil in Texas.

Mr. Bush bankrupts the country after being unable to find WMDs in Iraq.

Now who wants to join Mr. Bush in finding [name it here]?

The last time that I filled up, I paid a little bit over $40 to fill up the tank on my Hyundai Excel. I believe that this is the first time that I have broken the $40 mark. The first time that I paid over $30, I thought that I was going to have a heart attack!!!

The people whom I could never understand are those who buy houses in areas where they end up having a 20-30 mile commute each way! For instance, in the mid 1990s, I was working an internship at Advanced Micro Devices, which is in the southeastern part of Austin. A number of my full-time co-workers had bought homes in the "trendy" upper middle class neighborhoods of Pflugerville and Round Rock. These people had to drive 20-35 miles to get to work each morning!!!

Alfredo-
That commute just isn't worth it today.

More companies are now going to 4-day workweeks at 10 hrs a day. They are offering some employees the chance to work from home. I think you will see this trend more and more. You will also get happier employees I think if they can work from home.

Who knows they may like it so much they might find the extra time in perusing other interests and hobbies that they could in the long run turn into full-time self employment.

What I don't understand are those who live in the burbs' who commute 20-35 miles and leave these beautiful homes empty during the day. Then they'll go on these 2-3 week vacations. They never really "live" in their houses.

How many actually use every room in their house? Some of those homes have so much wasted space that they are real energy sucks.

I'm thankful my wife and I have simpler tastes.

Thank you George W. Bush for going to Saudi Arabia to rescue us – several years after the price of gas goes through the roof. Just like HR “BOB” Halderman used to say, TL squared – too little, too late. I thought old George’s war was going to help increase the flow of oil onto the open market. Guess not. And then to support industries like the petrochemical industry, nuclear power industry, and coal mining. We gave the petrochemical industry $18 billion in tax cuts and what do they offer in return, $4.20 per gallon gasoline. The nuclear power industry couldn’t manage its way out of a paper bag. They’ve been so asleep at the switch that nobody with half a brain would trust them. Coal – let’s throw our support behind an industry that has engaged in some of the most egregious labor and environmental practices in modern history. To trust them would be like asking a child molester to babysit your kids.

As for the liberals and pork, I’d like to remind our conservative friends it’s was George W. Bush and a Republican led US Congress for nearly 6 years. And it was during this period that deficits ballooned because George W. Bush, supposedly a fiscal conservative, never met an appropriations bill he didn’t like. Not to mention the cost of the war, which according to Mr. Bush would run $50 billion dollars. Nearly $700 billion dollars later and no end in frickin’ sight, the only spending package he’ll sign is more war supplements. And then he has the gall to defer payment on the war.

You gotta love him, George W. Bush, the biggest bozo ever to lead the free world.

You gotta love him, George W. Bush, the biggest bozo ever to lead the free world.

WOW!
The best sentence ever about our OUTGOING pRESIDENT.
Nixon is tied neck and neck with DUHbya though. But at least DUHbya wasn't a bigot.... That we know of....

What about Carter? He sure was a POS president!

I doubt George W. Bush will ever win the Nobel Prize for Peace. Perhaps though a RAZZIE for his portrayal as our nation’s first appointed commander and chief.

Carter had the wrong people behind him and that was his fault. For that he is right behind DUHbya and Nixon.

"How come I used to have a carburated GEO Metro that got 45mpg and you can't get a non-hybrid car today that gets better the 35mpg? I had a carbed plymouth with a 2.5 litre that got 35mpg and my wifes car with a Toyota 1.8 litre fuel injected motor only get 28mpg. The current oil company regulated emissions standards might have something to do with it I guess."

More likely the problem is the added weight of the newer cars. And safety regulations(indirectly by adding weight), not emissions.

My 01 VW diesel gets about the same MPG as a 1980 VW diesel(mid 40s), but at twice the weight and (more than) twice the performance(and probably twice the cost!).

The fuel has gotten crappier too. E10 has become almost standard, and that has nibbled away at mileage.

"My 01 VW diesel gets about the same MPG as a 1980 VW diesel(mid 40s), but at twice the weight and (more than) twice the performance(and probably twice the cost!)."

Your '08+ VW won't. Higher pollution standards for diesel power vehicles in '07 obsoleted many diesel engines, including VWs. There was no '07 diesel VW. The new '08 VW diesel engines are coming out this Fall and I betcha hard bucks that they'll be slower and get less MPG than your '01.

We've seen this in pickup truck diesel engines across the board, especially in GM's Duramax. The MPGs on the late models are waaaayyy down from the early 00s when the engine was first introduced.

Tal & Dark,

I've been asking that question too, about carb engines and MPG. Totally agreed on weight, but it's not the whole story.

That metro (I had the sprint and it could actually hit 50, if one was careful), weighed less than 2000 pounds. Cars today are fat ass, by comparison.

Still, I've two data points that make me seriously wonder if the carb isn't still better for mpg.

My manual trannie ford futura could exceed 35 mpg, and it was made Detroit steel style, heavy as hell. I regularly got 30 in the thing, mostly city. It had a carb.

My current car gets 42 on the freeway, weighs about 2500 pounds (corolla 89), has carb, and also gets over 30 in the city.

Of course those numbers assume that one does not hammer the car. If you max it out, subtract 10 from the above numbers.

I think fuel injection offers more performance and precision in fuel delivery. The carb won't compete on those two metrics.

However, a carb will do some interesting things when driving low RPM, and at cruise, that I think are significant where getting great MPG is concerned.

One thing I've noted is that at low RPM, with the right engine timing and moderate octane fuel, most engines will tolerate being driven under 2K RPM with moderate loads and at moderate speeds.

In this city, being able to do this reliably, say going 35 in 5th gear, means a huge increase in fuel economy. When I drive a fuel injected car the same way, it just does not perform the same.

Having done this with heavy cars and lighter ones, and only seeing very significant differences on the carb engines, there is something to that, beyond just the weight.

One thing I really want to try with a fuel injected car is a variable duty cycle on the injectors. When cruising at low RPM, stagger the fuel from 50 percent of normal, to 100 percent of normal, on an alternating pattern, that would keep engine balance, but just cut overall power delivery and consumption.

Bet it makes a difference huge, but it's gonna take a micro controller and some time one day to actually try it.

Another thing I want to try, with the carb engine I have, is O2 injection, combined with some control over the O2 sensor. In moderate demand conditions, which is most of our driving, a seriously better burn could be achived, meaning a big boost in MPG and an improved power curve at the lower RPM drive cycles.

I suspect an O2 aggregator wouldn't be all that hard to build. Mount a delivery control on the shift stick, and use it when it makes sense...

E10 kind of sucks Ed. The non-gas portion has about 90K BTU / some unit. Gas has 120K BTW / same unit. (I think it's gallon)

This means, the lower overall energy density results in about a 3 percent by volume fuel savings, yet the cost does not reflect that reality. E10 is a tax as far as I am concerned, and a waste of time overall.

The corn farmers like it though...

The E10 blend is often not present in plus and premium grade fuels. I've been testing the differences and the price to determine if the plus and premium buy is worth it. For my car, it is.

On the E10, I see about a 5MPG drop. This is very significant. This is 50 less miles per fill, which equates to about $5.00, at the 10 cents per mile average my car sees.

If the difference between plus grade and E10 blend ordinary grade is say, 10 cents / gallon, that's only one dollar difference in fill up price. One dollar only buys 10 miles, making the E10 a loser having lost 50 with the lower overall efficiency.

That sucks, IMHO.

Also, your average octane boost can be had for about $2.00. Many engines will perform significantly better at lower RPM. Less potential to ping, and better power distribution over the cycle = stable delivery and good economy in that condition.

If you see 3-5MPG difference, that 2 dollars is money well spent.

Having done this with E10, it's a solid compromise as most of the MPG loss disappears with the additive.

PITA though, to put something in the tank each time to mitigate the changes. I'll just buy plus.

Also, the average price of plus seems to be 10 to 15 cents difference, sometimes less. As the numbers go higher, and that difference seems to hold, it's less of a difference overall, meaning it's growing increasingly worth it to just buy better fuel.

Broadway, if that Volt will do 150MPG and it's not just under some BS conditions, it may well be disruptive technology, given the higher cost of gas.

I could actually consider a new car in that case. I'm eager to see!

Otherwise, overall cost in terms of dollars per mile traveled, is way better with a used car, that can get 35 - 45 MPG. I make all my transportation decisions on dollars / mile these days. Add up insurance, payments on vehicle if present, fuel, oil changes, and repairs.

My current car, 270K miles corolla, falls under .20 / mile for everything! A Prius is more than this and that's mostly because the MPG is not disruptive. (not significant enough to pay off over the cost of the car otherwise)

The Volt might flip that equation, and if so, is a damn good thing.

In terms of dollars per mile, the best bang for the buck happens to be the very late 80s and many early 90's cars. They have great engines, many have carbs, their weight is low, and obtaining them is usually just a one time cash transaction.

The Sprint sits at the peak, with nearly 50 MPG, and very low additional costs. Metro comes in a very close second.

"Cash Station" -- Love it!

Added to playbook!

"Cash Station" is the name of the ATM's in the Chicago area! (I suspect it applies to the gas stations there too!)

I just did my first over $100 fill up last weekend! $102.25 in the company Durango. Then had to put another $99.75 in it on Friday! Man, I'm glad that I'm not paying for that one!

Missing, I know that in my Cruiser, which gets 8 mpg on regular gas, that if I put premium and dump a cam of octane boost in it, I can get it up to almost 10 mpg. Percentage wise that a pretty big improvement, over 20%.

I also notice a fairly big improvement in performance as far as pick up and acceleration.

I haven't figured out if it's worth it cost wise though. With 20 cents per gallon more for the gas and about $3.50 for the octane booster, it probably isn't worth it.

Although, I really only drive the Cruiser when I'm going out to play in the hills, so the additional cost is negligible.

I almost exclusively use public transit. I get a monthly bus pass which takes me anywhere I wish to travel within reason. As for the recent problems on public transit, I haven’t had any problems. The most important thing is to know how the route systems work and giving yourself ample time to travel from place to place. It might not be for everyone, but with gas going through the roof, it’s a great alternative to driving your own vehicle.

well Skybill, $3.50 gets you about 6 miles. If you see 2Mpg on a 15 gallon tank, that's easily worth the additive. 30 miles!

If you shop, those things can be had for about $2.00

Talpdx-

That's the way we should have been thinking 20 yrs ago. My wife and I have been looking at electric cars at a place called Eco-Motion. They are beginning to run some TV commercials.

We live in an area where we have easy access to mass transit or we can walk to most places or ride bikes. But we've been doing this for many years and not just now.

It's a mindset.

The only driving I did today was from the street to the driveway. We had a load of free bark chips delivered on Friday and today my wife and I played in the yard all day.

Tomorrow it's an early walk to the PO Box. A walk to gym and then yes I will have to drive to a gig but it's only a couple of miles away. Should be the only driving I'll have to do on Monday.

I've said it before and long before gas prices spiked. A really good day around here is when the van never leaves the driveway. More so than ever.

Skybill, you'll get much better fuel mileage if you put the landcruiser on a trailer and tow it with, well, just about anything.

random thoughts


Mr. Carter's answer was to turn down the thermostat and wear more sweaters.

Mr Obama is leaning that way as well....

How low should I turn it? Utilities are all up.
thermostat averaging 62 last winter and 55 when no one was home for the day.......

Here is a plan to chase out the speculators.....
Require them to take delivery on any oil contract purchase....

BOOSH also has lousy people behind him....

Repoobs kept pushing hard for power to show their fiscal responsibility, then dropped the ball when they had it....

Screw the slight increased carbon footprint. bring back the 3 cylinder metro. All the new whiz bang gadgetry on the new cars adds profit, makes it tough to fix your own, but doesn't improve mileage. Take out the SUVs that upward mobiles had to have and cars seemed to have gone backward in fuel economy.

remember, Clinton hiked the Fed gas tax.......

always open to dispute, but the NECESSITIES have to have price controls because increased costs in them creates hardship......

Utilities, accessible healthcare, food, and yes gasoline and diesel because the economic welfare of the country depends on on it. Not credits for lower income people, controlled prices. drill it if you got it! There are enough watchdogs that the drilling can be done with minimum impact. We can't go back 200 years to a wonderfully green happy happy, wondefully non polluted time of 10 million farmers.....Greenies need to compromise a bit, and the money people need to get a bit of the goodwill toward men thing......

"Greenies need to compromise a bit"

Unfortunately, its out of their hands. The planet has the final say.

When a house is on fire, the fire department can't be negotiating with a public utility worker for an uninterrupted water supply.

Roger-

The USA consumes more than any other country on the planet. However China and India are getting a taste of our type of consumerism.

If every country consumed like ours you would need 3 planet Earth's to handle it.

It's about being smarter in our consumption and waste management.

Herb writes:

Mr. Bush wants to drill more oil, not the leftists.

HE WANTS TO DRILL MORE IN ALASKA SO HIS OIL EXEC BUDDIES CAN SELL IT TO CHINA!!!!!!!!!

Are you ever going to get that? We don't see half of the oil coming out of Alaska now because those crooks know they can make more selling it overseas. You want to drill in the wildlife refuge FINE. But you better damn well make sure that oil stays in the US. Don't insult my intelligence this way.

Save a family, bag a CEO.

I like the thought of drilling a lot of oil from Alaska and North Dakota and making the Saudis beg us to buy their oil.

Herbert Milhous Kissinger Nixon IV

Will never happen.

Drill, not drill. We will be buying from them until we change our energy policy.

OK, new US policies:

1.) Any natural resources extracted within the US stay within the US until reserves are at full capacity after which any surplus may be sold to foreign countries.

2.) Imported goods are taxed in order to allow our US factory workers to keep their jobs and so that it just makes since for corporations to quit using offshore labor.

3.) Disband the current radio monopolies into smaller more competitive groups in order to restore creativity, originality, and the quality of that product.

I still think the Iraqis should thank us for saving their bacon by giving us a deal on some cheap crude.

Herbert Milhous Walker McCain III

Easy for you to say in your nice, safe comfy home.

DT, I agree. US oil should stay here and we should only import whatever amount is needed to make up the difference between what we can produce and what is consumed.

Drill where the oil is, as long as it's done responsibly.

The Alaska Pipeline has not decimated the caribou herds like the tree huggers said it would.

There was just a big Democrat proposal that the Republicans defeated that would have imposed a "windfall tax" on the big oil companies.

While I don't like paying more than $4 per gallon as does anyone else, all that tax would have done is push the price higher. If you tax a corporation, they are just going to pass it on to the consumers.

I'm glad the bill was defeated.

That being said, there was a second bill that Republicans defeated that I don’t think they should have. There were tax breaks in the bill for alternate energy research/production. I wish that those had passed.

There was also a part of the bill that would have repealed tax breaks for the oil companies. That part is good. I don't have a problem giving them a TEMPORARY tax break on say, a new refinery, or capital investments (in the USA) or something like that. But when the big 5 oil companies have made $36 BILLION dollars profit in the 1srt quarter of this year alone, they don't need any tax breaks.

Here's the article; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364846,00.html

The bill was not defeated, it was filibustered by a record breaking filibustering GOP obstructionist Senate minority.

And Bill, you seem to contradict yourself on your stance on tax breaks for oil and a windfall profit tax. Loss of a tax break is a tax increase, and based on your logic, this will be passed on to the consumer. So, why would you support one but not the other?

If the tax break is short term, temporary and VERY limited in scope for something like research or alternative energy and not to just gain political favor, then I don't have too much heart ache with it.

Short term and temporary are the key words here.

But yeah, they’d just pass that increase on too.

Basically I don't think there should be many tax breaks at all. And subsidies for dairy farmers, tobacco farmers, etc (not picking farmers, they are the only ones that come to mind right now) is fodder for completely different thread!

just filled up on my Corolla...now up to $45!!!

WHEN IS THIS GOING TO QUIT!!!

I don't think it will quit anytime soon.

Personally, I'm bracing for $6-8 dollar per gallon gas.

There is no short term deal for us.

It's going to peak at about $5/gallon and then the Fed will have to raise interest rates which will deflate the commodity bubble.

Think it will hold steady or drop?

It's going where MK predicts: $6-8 by Labor Day.

Dammit Mrs M! We need to be wrong here. This isn't helping!

Ok folks, really happy hour has ended! The beer lady went off shift, leaving lots of glasses everywhere she could! Now it's time to just settle in, polish them off and maybe catch a bit of tube.

---should have hit the wine! Might have a better buzz right now.

$4.70 by end of Summer. $3.90 in late October.

I want to believe, I really do.

$3.45 by Christmas

I'm not the bad guy here.

Not true Herbocrite...
YOU ARE!

Missing - Sorry for the ancient reply, but...

"The E10 blend is often not present in plus and premium grade fuels."

This jibes with my GF's recent experiments... she gets similar mileage buring Portland super unleaded or Canadian regular (with no ethanol).

How did you come by this info? I thought the E10 requirement was for all grades?

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2008/05/oregons_ethanol_requirem ent_lo.html

It's a deduction, based on millage metrics I've kept.

Looks like I'm going to run some fuel obtained in Vancouver to compare.

I thought the E10 requirement was for all grades?

In Oregon E10 is in all grades....

verry interesting.

FYI it's a 07 Prius and shouldn't have any need or interest in super unleaded. I'll try to get a tank of Ethanol-free vancouver regular and see how it performs. The trick will be identifying the E-free stations(and the one mentioned in the article is a bit out of the way for me).