http://www.youvebeenleftbehind.com/

P.T. Barnum would be proud!

These clowns claim to be ready and willing to deliver stuff to your loved ones after you've been swept up in the rapture.

I'm gonna give them a 10 for sheer, morbid genius.

They get a zero on trustworthiness though. What better way to collect up a bunch of records to exploit a few years, or months from now?

Even I think this is weird stuff...theres enough important decisions to focus on now!

Totally.

Just when you think there are no new scams, there it is! Right there, fresh and sucker ready!

Some of us really are just bastards.

And all this can be yours for the low, low introductory price of $40.00!

Dang! What a deal!

The sad thing is, somebody's gonna do it.

I'm going to start selling carbon credits!!!

Send me your bucks and I'll send you a piece of paper with your "credits" on it.

Low introductory price: $100 per credit.

Talk about a crock of caca!

"They get a zero on trustworthiness though."

Sorry, but the only ones who get a zero are those who deny God's Word.

And the suckers are those who buy satan's lies, for God's Word is true. Jesus Himself said "I am the way, the Truth and the life...no one comes to the Father but by Me."

This sums it up: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp

It's the Gospel Truth. The Holy Ghost is a gentleman and won't force anyone to accept God. Salvation like any gift, can be rejected. On the day of weeping and gnashing of teeth, just don't blame God for your rejecting Him.

Herb

OK - fine - how about a " 1 " for them then, Herb? Is that better?

It's not up to me.

I don't know if God grades on a sliding scale.

But if there's no judgement and no hell, then Mr. Stalin and Mr. Hitler got off with nary a worry.

Just as God has made a Heaven, His justice demands a hades. But again, that's not my call. I go with the Word of Jesus, who spoke clearly about the hot place. Thank God He conquered death and hades, so we need not be afraid of either if we're right with the Almighty.

Herb

Herb. Stop it. You are freaking me out.

No Shit!

Are you telling us that you might actually sign on to that snake oil pitch, or that it has some validity of ANY kind?

Of couse he would, it wouldn't be the first time his kind purchased the snake oil.

"Are you telling us that you might actually sign on to that snake oil pitch..."

To compare the Gospels to a the works of charlatan is to call Jesus a liar.

Even the devil acknowledges Jesus. So you can refuse His gift, but not me. Only the foolish would walk away from such a gift...and that's precisely what the Bible calls such behaviour.

No thanks.

Herb

The foolish believe in made up stories and allow themselves to be controlled by them.

Hilarious!

Man, this is a scam, BIG. Has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than some clown looking to make a quick buck on the suckers.

The way you put it Herb, it's looking like you have an account!

Do you?

Seriously?

"The foolish believe in made up stories and allow themselves to be controlled by them."

Exactly.

http://leestrobel.com/videoserver/video.php?clip=CCNT1731

http://www.charleswood.ca/reading/evolution.php

http://www.carm.org/atheism/entropy.htm

Herb, none of those three links prove anything. Get me a link to god's website where he will confirm the crap you guys are saying he says, and then I'll be a believer.

When your ideas don't stand up, admit it.

God works in wonderous ways...not according to the whims of Vitalogy..or Ol' Herb, for that matter.

Herb

What a gimmick. I’m surprised Paul and Jan Crouch of TBN fame didn’t come up with it. Given their love of the almighty dollar, they could have added internet fleece artists to their broadcast and real estate empire.

If not Paul and Jan, then perhaps another terminal pessimist, the great Hal Lindsey. He’s been predicting the end of time since the 1970’s – this sounds like a perfect gimmick for him.

>>Get me a link to god's website where he will confirm the crap you guys are saying he says, and then I'll be a believer

Jesus (God in man form) walked on this earth 2000 years ago proving He was God and they crucified Him...all documented in the most sold (history) book of all time called the Bible...so how can any web site prove anything more other than God just "zapping" His proof upon you like He did Paul in Acts....read it...great story!

Ok, the point is that we don't have God on the public record. It's all faith. Either a person buys it, or they don't.

From there, it's as real as you want it to be.

This thread was absolutely not meant as a slam on religion of any kind. It was morbid appreciation for somebody reaching new and, IMHO, unique lows in scamming people.

Jeeze..

There's a reason why the scammers target the religious folks...they're easy targets.

Every Sunday morning while attending church I sit in a pew next to some ordinary and not so ordinary people. Brain surgeons, lawyers, carpet cleaners, computer geeks, you name it they've done it and in some cases have seen some things in life I will never experience.

Some like my wife who chooses not to attend church, find worship while gardening, engaging with a neighbor or attending a yoga class. (Something my wife is encouraging me to do)

I love the variety of people. I love all the different elements they bring to each Sunday. Some bring strong conservative evangelical backgrounds sitting right next to someone who came from just the opposite background. All coming to some common ground to share an experience that for those attending is meaningful.

These are not mindless followers who can’t reason or think independently, these people have real lives with real issues and faith plays a central role.

And Missing I will take just a small issue with your “Either a person buys it, or they don't.” I think in many there is a stirring. You yourself have often mentioned this or at least that’s how I’m understanding it.

I don’t think believing or not believing is really the best way to approach the issue of faith. I will agree with Herb that you can’t surround human terms to God. I think Herb, Broadway and myself do agree is that Jesus turned things upside down in the religious world when he showed up. He did a new thing and backed it up with in ways we are still trying to understand 2000 yrs later.

Now with that being said, it’s quite obvious Herb and Broadway approach their faith lives differently than I approach mine. I don’t see that as an issue because all I have to do is look at the 12 Disciples Jesus handpicked to realize that differences occur within in the church, and working through those differences will be challenging at times if not monumental.

Where my issues lie with Herb and Broadway probably has more to do with style and approachability and how we interpret scripture. But again I’m okay with it because it allows me to sharpen my own faith.

I’m not a fan of the whole “Left Behind” theology and I believe it does more harm to those who go about their Christian lives under the radar doing what they feel God has called them to do.

They don’t actual hear God’s voice or “the Lord told me” type of thing, but just a clear vision for their own purpose in life.

Got off topic a bit but what’s new.

"He did a new thing and backed it up with in ways we are still trying to understand 2000 yrs later."

Which is why certain people need to keeps their thoughts to themselves instead of assuming to know what it all means.

When in doubt, shut up. (That's you Herb. Nobody does a better job of turning people off to Jesus and God in this forum than you.)

It doesn't qualify as a scam if the system is set up to do exactly what it claims to do in the hypothetical scenario it speaks of. If the technology is really set up to notify recipients with your message after 7 days of the proprietors not logging on, then it is not a scam, and it's not "snake oil" because it is set up to live up to all it's claims. They're doing nothing illegal. You are a moron if you give them $40 though.

It's actually pretty typical of hard-core fundamentalists to assume they have the monopoly on truth. If the rapture happened in the way they claimed, wouldn't everybody suddenly believe? Wouldn't that be the hard physical evidence that atheists and agnostics claim they would need to believe? I think people who believe in this rapture do actually assume that non-believers are so "lost" that they would continue to not believe even after a billion people physically vanished from Earth at the same time, and they all happened to be Christians! Hey, forget fox holes, there would be NO atheists in a post-rapture world!

The whole rapture idea gained popularity in the 1800's, and again in the 1970's. It cherry picks metaphorical Bible versus and interprets them literally.

"And Missing I will take just a small issue with your “Either a person buys it, or they don't.” I think in many there is a stirring. You yourself have often mentioned this or at least that’s how I’m understanding it."

Have you considered that that "stirring" could be the result of having the concepts of God and hell pounded into our brains growing up, as so many of us did? I'm sure people from Muslim cultures feel a "stirring" for Allah when their faith fades and someone starts to remind them of the things they've been conditioned to believe all of their lives.

Chris, of course it's more complex than that.

However, at any point in time, one either does buy it, or not, with not being an incomplete, or partially realized faith.

There is also the wanting to believe, vs actually believing. That could apply to me, from time to time, and I'm sure that's where we connect on that level.

Shane, agreed!

And I can trace a lot of crap back to childhood garbage. It's all too common, IMHO.

>>.” I think in many there is a stirring. You yourself have often mentioned this or at least that’s how I’m understanding it

The Bible calls that "a still small voice"...or your conscience or God just nudgeing you to Him!

Shane good points.

I never got God pushed down my throat even though my dad is a pastor and my mom had a master's degree in Christian Education. I grew up in the church but I never felt shame or guilt into believing. Guess I was one of the lucky ones.

People don't need to be told how bad they are. For the most part people are keenly aware of their failures. Some deal with it better than others.

It's not my place to tell people how they should live their lives. It's far more important I live my life based on my value system.

What's great about America is different belief systems can co-exist next to each other. And that was my point about those I attend church with.

The "stirring" has many facets and may take years to manifest itself in someone.

Shane:
"The whole rapture idea gained popularity in the 1800's, and again in the 1970's. It cherry picks metaphorical Bible versus and interprets them literally."

Nailed it!

The Gospel is by its very nature offensive.
The Truth hurts.
So does sin.
Deal with it.

Herb

No way. If the message is offensive, then that lies with the messenger, period.

Nobody likes to hear anything from the holier than thou types, and if they have even a small measure of self-respect, will step up and tell them that.

Sorry, Herb. The truth does hurt.

"If the message is offensive, then that lies with the messenger..."

Classic atheistic, leftist approach. You're going to judge the Almighty? Such folly.

God hates sin.

It doesn't matter what you think.

http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/hatessin.htm

No. I'm judging you directly. Not God, not the message, just you.

And I find a lot of what you say on this topic very offensive. That's what you say, nobody else, and it's on record here repeatedly.

The most offensive and arrogant postings are courtesy of Herb when talking about religion. There is nothing worse that someone who so ardently believes in something that can't be proven, yet acts like he's got a monopoly on the truth. The fact is, your beliefs are as true or as insane as anyone elses when it comes to the SPECULATION of god, religion, and the so-called afterlife. You may think you know, but you don't. You hope you know. And I'm sure the thought of not truly knowing scares you so much that you've conditioned yourself to accept what you think you believe to be the truth, because you can't handle any other outcome. Because deep down you're a weak minded, fearful person who need a crutch to get through life.

>>Because deep down you're a weak minded, fearful person who need a crutch to get through life.

God is a pretty decent crutch to lean upon...you can to when you need Him...He's always there waiting for you to recieve Him in your heart.

>>SPECULATION of god, religion, and the so-called afterlife.

All creation SHOUTS that there is a Creator...just look at the heavens on a clear night to the goings on in your own body every day how it all works...a miracle!

"The fact is, your beliefs are as true or as insane as anyone elses when it comes to the SPECULATION of god, religion, and the so-called afterlife."

You can kill the messenger, but I simply stated what the Bible says. Jesus is either who He says He is, or He is a liar.

The problem is that the atheistic left wants a 'feel good' Gospel devoid of hell and judgment. Sorry.

As C.S. Lewis wrote:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. – Mere Christianity

Herb

"I simply stated what the Bible says."

Of course you did, but that doesn't change credibility of what you're saying. And last time I checked, CS Lewis does not have a direct line with god or jesus, so you're simply citing another mortal man's opinions. Any idiot can do that.

I suggest you watch the outstanding film 'Shadowlands.' You may be more open-minded, and open-hearted, than you ever realized.

Herb

Herb a few years ago PBS did a show on CS Lewis and Darwin. It was a comparison of the two and their philosophies. It was well done especially the actors who portrayed each. Did you ever see that or know of it?

I haven't seen Shadowlands. Might need to check it from the library.

I didn't see the PBS production, but Shadowlands easily makes Herb's top 5.

That film opened my eyes, mind and heart unlike any other.

Herb

Well if I see PBS running it again or find it somewhere I'll let you know the name of it. It was a fascinating contrast and comparison and course it was well done.

Saw a good film on Bonhoeffer too my dad recommended.

Sorry to hijack. Now back to our quarreling.

Okay Herb I found it. It's called "The Question of God."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/questionofgod/twolives/index.html

The Bible, God as seen from the perspective of man.

Hmm? Think about it. It could have been written by a bunch of Herbs. Might want to wait for the real thing.

You crack me up Skep.

You are certainly correct to some extent. The words in the bible maybe inspired but they aren't God's actual words. Nonetheless, for me it's still a compelling book.

Who wrote the Bible is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book. If indeed it is the Word of the living God, then no other book gives us more insight into our lives, more hope for our future, and a true path to a relationship with God.

from...

http://www.allabouttruth.org/who-wrote-the-bible.htm

Dan I posted this on another thread but you may have missed it. This is a long time pastor friend of mine that is currently an interim pastor in Washington State.

Here's what he says about the inspiration of the Bible.

I believe much of the confusion over the status of biblical inspiration is thinking that the expression the Word of God means words of God.

In my Evangelical Free Church upbringing, we were in essence taught that inspiration meant that the Bible was the product of God being the author, and the biblical writers being merely scribes. Actually it wasn't just Evangelical Christians who thought this way, many Orthodox Jews had this picture of the way the Torah was formed. The writers went into kind of a trance and "channeled" God's thoughts through their various means of getting language onto stone, clay tablets, papyri, etc.

Beginning in the 19th c., and first in Germany and later in England and the United States, analysts began to a) learn how closely the biblical literature resembled literature from virtually all cultures in the Middle East during the times of biblical composition, and b) the ways it appeared that even if some of the embedded stories were ancient, they'd been "massaged" or "edited" over years to reflect various perspectives of significant groups such as priests, the royal court of the Davidic kings, etc.

It further became evident that, even if the original story may have come from a period far removed from the ones working to shape it into its current form, that form was heavily impacted by events that were current at that time such as the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, the Babylonian captivity, etc. Further, even the canon of the Hebrew scriptures (our Christian Old Testament) apparently wasn't finally established until around the time of Christ. The various documents had been circulating for years, but which ones would be included, and in which order, was a fairly "late" decision.

Finally, even with the New Testament documents, it became more and more difficult to believe that the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses to the Christ event, or that they weren't shaped by the respective authors' hands. Further, it became difficult to imagine that some of the events depicted in the life of Christ were not, in fact, inventions of the authors to serve the faith needs of the communities of faith for which they were writing.

So much for direct Divine inspiration.

So, where does this leave us? With the perspective that while God did not "write" Scripture via stuperous scribes who put down just what they were told, that there was Divine inspiration present in the shaping and preservation of these documents, to and including the final decisions by church councils long after Christ's death as to what should be included in -- or excluded from -- the canon of the New Testament as we have it today.

Further, in Reformed theology, the "magic" is not in the words on the page. They are just words as would exist in any other book. Their Divine Inspiration comes as the Spirit works through the reading of Scripture in the community of faith and in preaching based upon that Scripture. Even when the preacher is known to be a scoundrel, or a lazy exegete, or...., the faith is that God can work through her or his words.

Further, inspiration that merits being called The Word, is not limited to Scripture. Scripture is considered to be the Word written, Jesus is considered to be the Word Incarnate, and the body of Christ -- the Church -- is considered to be the Word lived out in the world as it takes what it has heard and experienced of the faith of the church and lives it day-to-day.

The Bible was written by man and man is SERIOUSLY flawed.

"Nonetheless, for me it's still a compelling book."

I won't disagree. I'm just saying some other people here need to think outside the box (the Bible) before commenting. Allow for some man-made misinterpretation of God's words along the way.

The Bible is perfect for one's private relationship with God. But when one opens that book out in public, it might not have been what God intended. So, when in doubt, don't!

Rapture-schmapture... can I still get a "Mean Gene" Burger there? Does KLYC's signal reach into heaven?

>>Does KLYC's signal reach into heaven?

When I was working in AM radio in the valley years ago I had a National Guard friend that flew training missions 50 miles out off the coast and could pick up most of the valley 1kw stations during the day...5000 ft high at 100 miles...not a bad trip!...but not heaven!

Speaking of far away signals, anyone able to DX KBCH from Lincoln City?

Herb

Skep to be honest I don't think the Bible has man made misinterpretations God. But it has been through many revisions through the centuries. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

Also it's a book. It's meant to be read like any book written. A person’s relationship with God is personal but rarely private.

I'm certainly not private about my faith but the difference is I'm not telling you, you need to believe the way I do. I share life from my perspective and you share it from yours. Cool stuff.

Sometimes the "messengers" on these threads have poor communications skills and that's what is so upsetting.

I honestly don't think it's communication skills. It's a worldview and personality problem.

Some of us need authoritaritan figures in our lives because not having a clear resolution to difficult choices is a problem. Can't really think for themselves, so they look hard for others to do the thinking for them.

That's the problem.

I think they communicate it very well, and often, because the need is always there.

>>The Bible is perfect for one's private relationship with God. But when one opens that book out in public, it might not have been what God intended. So, when in doubt, don't!

Do you use that same logic for the constitution?

Broadway did you read my earlier post concerning Biblical inspiration?

Broadway: The Constitution and it's creators are well evidenced and supported. The document itself is written in a living language, English, that's understood by most folks in the country, should they choose to read it.

Unlike the Bible, which has been translated and interpreted by the educated elite for the uneducated, unwashed masses for centuries.

No comparison.

From whom am I supposed to find faith? A man who hides in his house claiming the mantle of born-again Christian, memorizing Bible verses, reciting prayers and condemning the greater world or an atheist who feeds the hungry, clothe the naked, and works with the homeless?

"When I was working in AM radio in the valley years ago I had a National Guard friend that flew training missions 50 miles out off the coast and could pick up most of the valley 1kw stations during the day...5000 ft high at 100 miles...not a bad trip!...but not heaven!"

RF propagates well over sea water.

Propagation to heaven is a bit more confusing. It requires navigating a tricky set of Hilbert transformations that filter out talk radio, pop music, smooth jazz and other meaningless modulation. Artful music and meaningful conversation are allowed to pass through. Then they face the Herbium filters which redirects whatever small amount of content deemed suitable for the small part of heaven where the few conservatives that actually make it there tend to hang out. The large majority of the transformed material having been rejected by the Herbium filters is channeled to the larger part of heaven where it is remodulated on more logical carriers and broadcast to the larger majority of heavenly residents not trapped in the far right Christian guilt band reject filter created by the Herbium filters.

Classic.

>>feeds the hungry, clothe the naked, and works with the homeless

That I do weekly downtown in my city as a Christ follower along with a team of Christians. James 1 blew me away when I read it from The Message version of the Bible...

Anyone who sets himself up as "religious" by talking a good game is self-deceived. This kind of religion is hot air and only hot air. Real religion, the kind that passes muster before God the Father, is this: Reach out to the homeless and loveless in their plight, and guard against corruption from the godless world.

Chris...yes read both recent and earlier posts...did not really get much from it. Please paraphrase/would be helpful to me.

>>The Constitution and it's creators are well evidenced and supported

I would say the Word of God could possibly apply here. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.

from...

http://www.allabouttruth.org/who-wrote-the-bible.htm

So Broadway how do you account for so many interpretations of the Bible and different meanings for almost every book by HUNDREDS of faiths???? Is that what God intended? Which book is right and what faith is right???
Old Testament from whom? New Testament from whom? Baptists? Catholics? Jehovah's Witness? WHO is right????

My born-again Christian cousins love Bible prophecy, as interpreted by the lunatic born-again Christian ministers on TBN. For years, they’ve claimed the end is near. They even had a bumper stick on their car about the rapture – “In case of rapture this car will be empty”. Too, the other bumper sticker read – “We’ve not perfect, just forgiven”. It seems like every generation of evangelical is planning for the second coming in their lifetime. Too, you can’t forget the anti-Christ. Again, every despot fitting his or her image meets that criteria anti-Christ.

Another favorite of theirs is the Proctor and Gamble logo being satanic. And of course the whole issue of the international banking system -- another born-again Christian red herring. But I can’t forget about the issue of micro chips being implanted into humans. That of course being apart of the whole 666 matter. They eat this stuff up. Plus they donate what little money they have to Paul and Jan Crouch of TBN. What a couple of charlatans. They own millions in real estate, a broadcast empire worth over a billion dollars and they fleece the poor like a couple of 19th century snake oil salesman. But I guess that being they are not perfect, just forgiven gives them the license to behave in such a way with impunity.

http://www.youvebeenleftbehind.com/

This was the correct answer to the "Fool the Listener" segment on NPR's Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me this morning.

>>Which book is right and what faith is right???

The Bible and I read/love the many versions/paraphrases

My bent/upbringing/study/faith is Christianity

>>WHO is right????

One thing you've all got to understand about Christianity is that it's all about what Jesus says/does and you believing that by faith in Him...without that I understand the way most of you respond. I don't care a whole lot about what man says about God if it is his opinion but only what God's Word says about Him. John 14...Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. He's the target...the "bullseye" study His life...read His word...in it all you'll find the true meaning of life that many millions have for thousands of years. Again...gotta have faith and an open heart toward Him.

Need proof...just think...every heartbeat inside you is a miracle...going on every second...a miracle in your life!

broadway sez: "every heartbeat inside you is a miracle"

A miracle? Really? There's a scientific explaination for it that is fairly easily understood by even a layman. Its not "proof".

One could easily say the same thing about most everyday common occurances -- Earth attracts apples from trees! A miracle! Bright object in the sky melts butter! A miracle.

The only people using the term "miracle" are either simpletons or con artists.

The Roman Catholic Church requires two miracles, among other things, for sainthood. I guess we’re all half-way there.

>>The only people using the term "miracle" are either simpletons...

God has had it with the proud, But takes delight in just plain people 1 Peter 5:4

Does that mean God doesn't like smart people?

God's people think He doesn't like those who question authority. Not so.

IMO, God is powerless. He had any kind of power at all, he'd silence his "people".

God didn't make us to worship Him. He made us to enjoy being alive and to live a constructive life. Man is misusing the idea of a God to control people.

Our society allows for a personal relationship with a God if they wish, but to the Jerry Falwell (thank God he died), Maurice Grammar (dead), Rev. Phelps (hurry up and die) and Herbs of the world, they can just shove it all back in the out hole.

Skep the Bible is filled with stories about God's people questioning God's authority. There are stories in the Bible of God's people who made some horrible decisions thinking they were doing the Lord's work.

Worshiping God can be manifested in many ways. And one is to enjoy the life you've been given. So yes I do agree with you on that point.

I also agree with the notion God is not about controlling people. I have never felt "controlled" by God. What I have personally felt is grace and mercy. Sometimes it's disguised through unlikely people and circumstance.

I believe that if God is a real entity in your life you will find your own way to worship.

Not to begin a discussion about what's in the Bible, but are the misguided people today thinking they're doing the Lord's work able to recognize that they are one of them as well? Or are they simply ignoring that section of the Bible?

Heres another site on topic from my theologan brother...

http://www.rapturetransfer.com/

his comments on the initial site....

That was a funny website. The Rapture has sort of built its own cottage industry. Another website has a service that transfers your funds to your "Left Behind" relatives so that the Antichrist won't be able to take it after you leave (http://www.rapturetransfer.com/). Another company is suppose to be looking into Rapture insurance that will pay the damages done when the speeding car you're raptured from crashes into somebody. Pretty funny stuff.

>>simply ignoring that section of the Bible?

what section are you refering?

Worshiping God can be manifested in many ways.

Evangelical EXTREME RIGHT Christians manifested into something VERY evil.

Jesus is an extremist radical.

Herb

Jesus is the SON of God Herb.... Of course he's going to be and extreme radical. But what YOU don't understand is that he is the KING of LIBERAL! His actions are EXTREME LEFT! If you don't see it then YOUR as blind as most on the REICH.

>>Evangelical EXTREME RIGHT Christians

Just the people who founded this country but sadly now our country is a post-Christian Nation.

The people who founded this country were NOT Evangelical! They were God fearing people and that is all! They loved there God. They were NOT my way or the highway people.
The pursuit of happiness not the pursuit of Evangelical Christianity!

They were mostly God fearing Evang...ok I'll take out the evangelical word out...does'nt matter...God fearing Christians that had a vision (I believe from Almighty God Himself) for all people to worship or not worship God as they please...plain and simple...and so important they wrote it down in the constitution.

Our nation was NEVER a Christian one. It was an American one, where anybody of faith was free to practice it as they saw fit.

The only people, who don't get this, or have a problem with it, are those that think their faith is the right one!

Of all the crap I read, this chaps my ass huge.

Did'nt mean to to any chappin...just sharing how I was raised and educated...

Oh, nothing personal Broadway.

It's just that particular misconception is really damaging.

Frankly, I was told the same thing in Sunday School as a kid, then went to ordinary school and learned the hows and whys behind how the nation was formed.

The disconnect is significant.

Easy for anybody to say, "I wish my faith was the official one." People do this because they need the endorsement, the affirmation, for others to have to recognize they are right!

It's a battle of mind share.

The problem with this then is that everybody else that believes differently is then forced to live a lie, and that's not freedom in the sense our founders sought to bring to us.

Our faith is different from our law. This is a basic thing that insures each of us is completely free to worship, or not, as we see fit.

We don't have to live lies here because we recognize that a persons religious beliefs are important to them. And we recognize there are a lot of beliefs!

Making one of those national, endorses it and is discriminatory to everybody else in that their faith is not favored then. Freedom is lost and that's not American.

So, it might be some "little" thing that is easy to lament about --and that's silly because it's flat out futile to lament the loss of something we never had, but that's another discussion...

That is how it seems, right? Just a thing we say to others who believe as we do?

Wrong.

It's a whisper campaign designed to get the idea that we are ruled by the bible out there and widespread in the hopes that it might actually be made into a reality.

That's an insult to every rational American.

We have church for that, not Government. Please think about that before spreading that lie any further!

I never heard in my Sunday school classes anything about the Constitution. I heard plenty of bible stories and took lots of field trips to the local park to experience God's creation.

From the historical stuff I've read and learned in my education, there was no doubt these framers of our Constitution had a deep faith in God. However they also had to think in broad terms about the scope of all the people this important document was meant to protect.

All these men were white, and rich (in most cases). Though many died penny-less at the end of their lives.

As much as some conservative Christian's want you to believe that this nation was born a Christian nation I would disagree.

That doesn't mean that those who were Christian's that help create the Constitution and signed the Declaration of Independence weren't influenced by their faith. But they saw an even bigger picture and were forward thinking in order for this society to survive. I find that astonishing.

I do too.

I think their faith drove a lot of the elements of our founding --as did their differences! More than anything, I believe they wanted to get it as close to right as they could, and that meant considering the implications their differences bring with them.

The ideas of self-governance, where that authority comes from (and it ain't God), equality, democracy and checks and balances are all heady things!

It would have been a good time to live and be part of those discussions.

"All these men were white, and rich (in most cases)."

And they all laid it on the line under risk of death so that we may also be free.

Herb

Yeah, so respect that and quit trying to promote the Christian Nation lie, so that their work actually means something.

Nailed it Missing!!!

Bash Bush.
Hate Jesus.
Bash Bush.
Hate Jesus.

Same old same old around here.

Herb

Repulsed by self-righteous evangelical Christian whimsy.

Further repulsed by the biggest miscreant to be president in American history, George W. Bush.

How did we get to hate Jesus?

Oh, I get it. You feel the push back and think that's somehow not got anything to do with you.

Sorry. It does Herb.

Question? Do you hate Bush MORE than you want Obama for prez?

I don't hate Bush. I do hate what he has done to the place though.

Big difference.

This comes up every coupla weeks. Basically, expressing extreme disregard for his performance is not hate. Most often, the word hate is brought up in an attempt to marginalize the criticism, as if it's some blind thing, not thought out and not to be given consideration.

That's not the case here. Hasn't been for a LONG time.

Don't know about Tal, but for me, that renders your question moot! Sorry.

I do not hate anyone in the administration.

I am disgusted, dismayed and disinclined to spit or take a tinkle on them if they were on fire, but hate is a strong word.

I want Obama for President.

I think Jesus was a great man.

I could see Jesus hating this administration.

I've been busy praying for the least of these, so you ought to ask him about it.

"Does that mean God doesn't like smart people?"

Yes.

God doesn't like smart people.

God loves smart people.

And he's here all night folks!

Get your drinks from the nice lady in red.

I'm looking forward to an Obama presidency where hope is its hallmark. There is much to be done and the time is NOW for an Obama presidency. Not a continuation of the fatalistic rapture obsessed pinhead we have in office.

As to whether I detest George W. Bush, it has more to do with his policies than him as a person. But his lies have led to the deaths of thousands and the injuries of hundreds of thousands. In my humble opinion, he treats human life with cavalier disregard.

Bash Bush.
Hate Jesus.
Bash Bush.
Hate Jesus.

HORSESHIT! Herbocrite if ya don't like it you where the boat to Cuba is. Or even North Korea. You and Ill will make good friends. MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY Club.....