It's Over

Feedback.pdxradio.com message board: Archives: Politics & other archives: 2008: Apr, May, Jun -- 2008: It's Over
Author: Vitalogy
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:26 am
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Today is the last day of the Clinton presidential campaign. Obama will win both South Dakota and Montana tonight, and will secure enough delegates to win and we will watch Hillary concede the primary tonight.

I'm so excited that I was one of the early Obama supporters and can't wait to see him win in a historic landslide in the fall. My first exposure to Obama was when he spoke at the 2004 Democratic convention, and I thought to myself "why isn't this guy running?" Well, now he is and I couldn't be more pleased. There is light at the end of the tunnel after the most miserable 8 years our country has suffered through in modern history!!!

Author: Skybill
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:27 am
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The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train.

Author: Amus
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:48 am
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I have a couple of observations that I think bode very well for those of us who are eager to move the country forward in a positive direction.

1. Barack Obama has succeeded in doing something the Republicans have never been able to do.

Defeat the Clinton's

2. Barack Obama managed to beat the Clinton's while the Republican establishment worked to help Hillary win, because they were heavily invested in running against her.

Think about it.
He beat BOTH the Clinton's AND the Republican's!!!

To quote Flounder from Animal House:

"Oh Boy This Is Gonna Be GREAT"!!

Author: Andrew2
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:55 am
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There are not enough delegates at stake in today's primaries to secure Obama a majority of delegates. He still needs a dozen or two superdelegates to swing his way. But that could happen in the next few days.

Terry McAuliffe has indicated that Clinton will not drop out of the race tonight - but maybe he's still BS'ing to save face.

Andrew

Author: Amus
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 12:02 pm
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I suspect they'll suspend as opposed to dropping out.
I don't think they want to announce either while there are still the 2 primaries to be completed.

Author: Roger
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 12:27 pm
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....This Is Gonna Be GREAT"!!

no, I think it's just going to be mediocre.

Repubs will have to walk on eggshells to avoid the racist accusations. Dems want to promote "change", but can't afford programs that will further empty american wallets. Dem's will Boosh bash, Reps can only counter with accusations of ineffective dem proposals and weak congressional leadership.......

Big Mac Cain focus on EYE RACK, Barry O'Bama focus on improving the worlds poor... Who is looking out for YOUR interests?

In answer to Mr. Obamas comment of keeping the thermostat at 72 year round. Mine spent the bulk of winter in the 62-65 range. With fuel costs soaring, I am going to have to increase my carbon footprint by running the fireplace year round. will use less gas, but my bill will still be higher because of increasing rates. I think he misses the point, we are not all driving SUVs wantonly, eating 24 oz porterhouses daily, and keeping every light in the house on 24/7. If he believes that, he runs in the wrong crowd. Wonder if he would consider shopping at the bread thrift store for his family. Doesn't have to. Won't see a presidential motorcade made up of Cobalts and Prius' either.....

So it took this country 200 years to get to where we are with our level of prosperity. China, India and the middle east have had how many thousand years to reach the same level and aren't there yet.......

Seems like bad management. Can't penalize the other team for that......


A strong U.S. economy benefits the world more than a weak one. Improving the economic standards in the developing world while lowering our own standards won't sit well with the average joe.

I still think U.S. politicos spend too much time improving the world at the expense of our own success.

Anyone else want the same healthcare Sen Ted got?
you paid for his........ most of us would find it tough to cover the cost for the same care..... You can die, but we owe it to a lifelong public servant with a large bank account, despite his advanced age, history of alcohol abuse, and surely fatal brain cancer. no cost is too much.

Sorry, average joe, your cat scan isn't covered under your insurance....................


OBservation over........

Author: Motozak2
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 12:38 pm
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deleted

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 4:51 pm
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I would have to disagree with Roger. Elections come and go, but this election is a defining moment for the country. There are huge matters of state that need addressing, including paying for Social Security and Medicare longterm, growing federal deficits, repealing the Bush billionaire stimulus package, further shifting of responsibilities to states from the federal level, universal health insurance, the war in Iraq, apprehending Osama bin Laden, inflation, shifting economic structure – further globalization and a new and comprehensive energy policy.

For the past eight years, we’ve lived under the rule of our deliriously twisted “war president”. He’s accomplished very little in relative terms. His domestic agenda is paltry at best and his international agenda has severed to further isolate the United States from the rest of the world. And to claim the mantle of “fiscal conservative” is a joke. This man is the porkiest porker when it comes to appropriations legislation. The Republican Congress under George W. Bush filled their legislation with more junk than any of his recent predecessors. Then he has the audacity to veto insurance for poor children, calling it too expensive but asks for repeated war supplementals – to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

This election is a defining moment for this country. What is accomplished in the next four to eight years will impact us for decades. And it’s imperative we elect a president with intellect, creativity and a strong sense of vision, something our current chief executive sorely lacks.

Author: Herb
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 5:02 pm
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If Mr. Obama is smart, he will figure out a way NOT to run with Hillary Clinton. Talk about a scary person to have around as VP. She makes Mr. Cheney look like Santa Claus.

Mr. Obama's main problem will now be dealing with the 1/3 of Hillary backers who insist they'll stay home in November.

Herb

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 5:32 pm
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It’s going to be hard to ignore a Democratic primary candidate that has received nearly 18,000,000 votes this primary season. To dismiss her and her supporters would not be politically prudent. That doesn’t mean automatically offering her the vice presidency, but perhaps offering her a role in the fall campaign. And again, as to the issue of the vice presidency, Obama needs to find a candidate that speaks well to Clinton voters. We tend to forget that he’s only garnered a few more thousand votes than Clinton this primary season. She deserves a place at the table. I realize that some find her difficult, but Obama is going to need her supporters to win in November.

I find it puzzling why some in the Democratic Party are so dismissive of her yet she’s won nearly as many primary votes as Senator Obama. People need to remember that there is an entire political universe outside of the Pacific Northwest. If I were to have judged the political calculus in 2004 factoring in yard signs and bumper stickers in metro Portland, John Kerry would have won hands down. Her message resonates well with bread and butter Democratic voters, older women (who vote in huge numbers compared to women under 40) as well as the Hispanic community.

One last thing on the subject. I wasn’t a big fan of Bill Clinton until the Democratic convention in 1992. But the feeling was nearly electric watching him accept the nomination. It was a wonderful moment in the world of political theater. And I sincerely believe that once Obama is formally nominated, the magic will resonate with the totality of the party.

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 5:47 pm
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Dick Cheney is probably the most dangerous human being in government, period. Blood lust is his passion. Along with George W. Bush, Dick Cheney has the blood of thousands killed and injured on his hands for a cause that history will deem a grand perversion of the early 21st century.

Author: Vitalogy
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 6:12 pm
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I think Obama can win without Clinton on the ticket, but with her support. I'm up in the air on whether she would be a net gain or a net loss to Obama's chances overall though.

Author: Chickenjuggler
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 7:01 pm
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It's hard to let old habits die. But since, for me, this is what much of Obama represents, I'm willing to try.

The old me would have been fine with having Clinton as V.P. to expect republicans to spend their time going after her - as V.P.. It would be a waste of time and a distraction.

The new me wants Obama to rise and succeed on his own merits - attacks from the right and all. I want to see my team win without having any handicap.

Clinton being on the ticket would bring in votes that only Clinton could deliver. ( I mean to say, there are folks that would only vote BECAUSE she is on the ticket ). I understand that. Everyone has their own reasons and that's just of a valid one as just about any other.

However, Clinton is not the only one who can deliver votes from the VP slot. ( And The VP slot is often given to someone who can deliver a state ).

Clinton could be offered a Cabinet position that would allow her to run in the future AND be effective.

Leaving Joe Biden to be VP.

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 7:49 pm
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I was thinking “who would make a good vice president” in an Obama Administration? I would start with Bill Richardson. He has plenty of executive experience and is very well versed in international affairs. Another good choice might be Dianne Feinstein of California. She’s very smart, politically savvy and is slightly more conservative then Obama. Plus she works well with Republicans. Others have said Ted Strickland of Ohio might be a good choice. I don’t know much about him but he served in the US House and trounced his Republican opponent in his election for governor of Ohio. Too bad Jennifer Granholm of Michigan was born outside the United States or she might make a good vice president. Obama needs to carry Michigan in order to win in November – which I’m sure he will, and handily. I’ve heard Sam Nunn mentioned, former Senator from Georgia. He might help Obama in Georgia, but I’m not confident Obama would do well there even with Nunn on the ticket. Joe Biden might work, but you’d have to rein him in as Vice President. He tends to be rather winded at times and has made verbal gaffes which might embarrass the Obama team. Then too is Chris Dodd, but I bet he'd rather stay on Capitol Hill and craft policy than take the vice presidency. Who knows?

Well, Obama has a few weeks to a month and a half to consider it. Hopefully, he’s tactful as to how he interviews candidates. I think back to Walter Mondale parading candidates through Minnesota prior to the Democratic Convention in San Francisco in 1984 – not a good way to do it.

As for the Republicans, I’m not sure who John McCain will choose. I can’t see him bringing on Romney given how they behaved towards one another during the campaign. And Huckabee would alienate moderate/swing voters. People would run for the doors if McCain brought Huckabee on board. I think he’ll do himself a favor and choose a governor with little taint from the GOP/Washington establishment. The GOP brand is toxic right now, so someone as far away from the stench of the White House or Capitol Hill would make sense.

Author: Magic_eye
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:04 pm
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"As for the Republicans, I’m not sure who John McCain will choose."

My money's on Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal.

Author: Trixter
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:26 pm
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The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train.

And it's going to run over McSame at 300 miles an hour.

Author: Skeptical
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:10 pm
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"Dick Cheney is probably the most dangerous human being in government, period."

Amen.

"Leaving Joe Biden to be VP."

I could buy that.

Author: Vitalogy
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:42 pm
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Bobby Jindal is 36 years old. If McCain is going to play the "too young and too inexperienced" card against Obama, he can't choose someone as young and inexperienced as Jindal.

Overall, it doesn't matter. After watching both McCain's and Obama's speeches tonight, it's clear to me that McCain is in serious trouble. McCain looked old and tired like he could barely read the teleprompter. Obama will destroy McCain in a debate. If McCain is smart, he'll avoid all one on one debates with Obama.

Author: Talpdx
Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 11:11 pm
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I don't place much faith in debates. Jimmy Carter was made to look rather foolish by Ronald Reagan in 1980. Reagan's "there you go again" remark stole the show. And Carter's remarks about his daughter Amy and her concern about nuclear proliferation seemed rather canned. In 1984, Reagan threw Walter Mondale off with his comment about Mondale’s “youth and inexperience”. I should note that Reagan’s first debate against Mondale made people question whether Reagan was too old to be president. But Reagan fared well enough in debate two and the rest is history. And in 1988, who can forget Bernard Shaw asking Michael Dukakis a hypothetical question about the rape and murder of his wife and whether the perpetrator should receive the death penalty. Michael Dukakis’s response was wonkish and left him looking rather emotionally austere. Bill Clinton seemed uncharacteristically understated in his first debate with George H. W. Bush and Ross Perot. Perot clearly stole the show in both the first and third debates. Clinton did better in the second debate because he knew the cost of foodstuffs purchased at a grocery store. To be honest, the 1996 debates are a blur. In 2000, George W. Bush fared better than expectations would have figured while Gore seemed more calculating, trying to throw George W. Bush off by invading his space on stage. And John Kerry may have beat Bush on the merits, but was rather uninspiring.

Then of course we have the famous Dan Quayle episode where Lloyd Bentsen makes Dan Quayle look like a complete lightweight. I will NEVER understand why George H. W. Bush went with Quayle, but that’s ancient history.

With that said, I think that the expectations for Senator Obama will be VERY high when he debates Senator McCain. The pre debate spin will be lowering expectations of both candidates. The post debate spin will be both sides taking shots at each other, dissecting their remarks and highlighting any rhetorical errors.

I’ve learned that in the debate setting of today, the smartest candidate (at least in my opinion) does not always come across as one might expect.

Author: Missing_kskd
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:56 am
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I'm rooting for Bill Richardson. There are many others too, so it's not like I'll be disappointed.

Clinton is a real polarizer and I see that as new-school politics -vs- old-school politics. I want the new-school --the guard to change significantly. That's where the action is, and if we are going to wager on a new approach being better, I think a big bet is in order so that we get the big payoff.

Bet small, win small. No thanks. That's just entertainment and I need more than entertainment.

On one hand, if Obama chooses Clinton, and the two of them can actually unify everybody, that's going to be powerful. I think that will come at a price though. The Clintons will make a lot of noise and bring with them a base of power that will check what Obama will want to do.

I think that check should be in Congress, not the Executive.

On the other hand, not picking her leaves the door open for a solid Executive, free to follow it's vision, but challenged by divisive politics.

Given how Clinton has performed, I'm not entirely sure she's all for the greater good of the party. I see some entitlement issues just not going away, and if that's true, then there will be some fighting and some payback.

Clinton mentioned RESPECT a lot these last few speeches. Obama has shown that huge in how he has handed the race, but that's just not enough and it really should be. I'm worried about that.

On the matter of debates, just look at the two recent speeches made by Obama and McCain. Obama is going to clean McCain's clock! Agreed that managing expectations will be a factor in this, and lord knows there will be a lot of powerful interests working their asses off to prop up Grandpa McCain.

Obama is skilled and has the high ground right now though. So far, he's managed to keep it and do the right things. If that continues, I think it's going to be extremely difficult to set expectations such that it won't be a factor.

Author: Brianl
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 7:21 am
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Richardson would make a lot of sense, I agree.

He has a lot of experience in the executive branch, having been in Bill Clinton's cabinet. He has been an ambassador and was a key diplomat in the Clinton adminstration as well. He's much more moderate politically than Obama, and obviously he would help reign in the Hispanic vote.

Clinton would be a disaster. I don't see a uniting bone in her body.

Author: Warner
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 8:23 am
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If Hillary does the right thing and concedes, AND urges her supporters to back Obama, then the election should be no contest for Obama. Anything less from Hillary and it could go either way. After the last two elections, I have very little faith in the voters.

Author: Roger
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 2:55 pm
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What's all the talk about the supposed Michelle Obama "whitey" tape..... heard mention of it half a dozen times today............

Author: Herb
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 3:18 pm
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I like Mr. Richardson, too.

He brings a lot to the table.

If he were pro-life, he'd steal a lot of republican votes.

Herb

Author: Warner
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:19 pm
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Uh oh, Herb and I are agreeing again. I think Richardson would be a great choice.

Author: Talpdx
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 5:48 pm
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Sounds like Senator Obama and Senator McCain might follow the lead of what was to have been during the 1964 presidential campaign had President John F. Kennedy not been assassinated. Talk was President Kennedy and Senator Barry Goldwater were to have engaged in a series of joint appearances across the country discussing matters of state. I think this is exactly what the doctor ordered. I must say I’m not a huge fan of the standard presidential debate format because campaigns go out of their way downplaying their candidates performances -- well in advance of the event. No gaffes and a few zingers make for a successful outcome. True discussion and analysis seems to have been lost. A real discussion of issues, and more than just three appearances in a highly structured format, might work well. It should be interesting to see.

Author: Chickenjuggler
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 7:50 pm
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In the short time we have to look back before we gotta look forward, I have to say, that Presidential race between Obama and Clinton was AWESOME. I believe that the rest of the world watching, for the first time in a LONG time, showed them AND us what we are all about. The sheer engagement of the Democratic race was stunning and flushed out all sorts of important things to me. I loved it. Every bit of it.

There. That's my 44 seconds of looking back and giving ourselves a pat on the back for doing things the way it's supposed to be done.

Now, onto the general election so we can put this plan into action again...and again.

Author: Vitalogy
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 8:08 pm
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I think Obama's toughest race is over.

Author: Marvin_the_martian
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 8:23 pm
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Its official, America would rather have a half white half black man as president then a half women half man.

Rick rocks Hillary

Author: Talpdx
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 9:10 pm
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I didn't realize Marvin_the_martian was running for president. The pant suit with a tie was a dead giveaway.


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