The definition of the meaning of life is quite simple. It is to please God. The meaning of life is to glorify, honor, and love God ( Revelation 4:11, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."). This is why God created us. He created us to love Him and worship Him. He created mankind with a soul that has the capability to love God just as God loves us. He desired for His unique creation, mankind, to freely love Him. The reason we get confused about the meaning of our lives is that God gave us a choice to freely love Him or not to love Him. God gives us this freedom to choose because He wants us to freely love Him. He has to give us free will in order for us to love Him. It is precisely our free will that gets us confused on what is the meaning of life. We get caught up in all the different choices in life. Should I go to college? Should I pursue this career field? Should I marry this person? With our free will we think there are all these choices in life (the meanings of life). The bottomline is to not get confused by all these temporary choices. In all the hustle and bustle of life, you have one eternal purpose and two choices. Your one purpose is to love and worship God. Your two choices are to love God or disobey God.

from...

http://www.access-jesus.com/Revelation/Revelation_4_11

God's thoughts/issues...your input?

So are you doing it?

Cant disobey something that does not exist.

"The Meaning of Life" is hilarious - perhaps not the classic that "The Holy Grail" and "Life of Brian" became, but still a very funny movie. Who can leave the theatre and not be humming, "Every sperm is saaaaay-cred! Every sperm is graaaaate!"?

Monty Python - the funniest comedy troupe ever!

Andrew

Broadway, you may have answered it before. I can't find it and can't recall an answer;

How does a person get into Heaven?

Through the "Son".

Right. But a person has to DO something. And what they have to do varies among branches. I'm curious which way Broadway believes.

Broadway said:

Your one purpose is to love and worship God.


A God that is vain enough to require the people he created worship him isn't worthy of being worshiped.


The meaning of life is the HERE and NOW. This is it. You're in HEAVEN NOW. Make the most of it, because when you die, there is nothing else. That's it. Zip. Zero.

If you do believe in a God, do what you need to do to please him NOW, not prepare for an afterlife.

If it were simply about worshipping and glorifying God, then it should be a 24/7 effort. We should be building monuments 24/7, ala crazy Mrs. Winchester of 19th century California. The building should never stop. Our whole economy should be around supporting a theological infrastructure – making money to build statues, sanctuaries, churches, steeples and supporting a theological class. Kind of reminds me of the Star Trek episode “The Apple”. Very scary stuff.

Just what Jesus would want I'm sure.

I have considered something like that to be true. It fails my standard of truth ( which, admittedly, is not infalliable - barely accurate and certainly not set in stone ) so I gave up on that theory. I would have to ignore, dismiss and lie to myself about too many things that are tangible and real to give that idea any credibility. Perhaps I could sell it to someone. But then again, I wouldn't want to have to convince someone of someone like that. Plus, if I did, visiting hours are too limited. ( At least I could stay in Salem ).

I do wonder about whether or not another ( 3rd ) book is being written or compiled to join the Old and New Testament. And if it is, I wonder if the authors know that they will be published.

Which brings up another question that I do not know the answer to; Who assembled the various books of the Old and then the New Testament and presented them in the form we now know? It had to be a human. Who was it? There HAD to be a few left out or rejected. Who decided that? Were they destroyed? Did they go on to do Television on HBO?

And much like authors of today that write books about God - are there other more ancient texts that were circulated as, you know, self-help guides.

Why is there so little humor in The Bible? Surely these people laughed. There is Joy shown. But not laughter. No Bethelehem's Funniest Home Tablets or anything. They don't seem to show that side very often. Maybe that was Jesus' teenage years that are missing and sold to Castle Rock Productions and is in development.

I have found some sublime lyrics addressing the return of Christ by secular artists;

"Jesus and his lawyer
Are coming back" - Eels ( Although E probably saw it on a T Shirt on Venice Beach worn by a 27 year old skinny kid juggling chickens on the boardwalk for 30 pieces of gold. He saw the sign - but missed the messgae. Now I can't even go back to Venice beach to correct him ).

Novocaine for the soul, indeed.

That one was always remembered by me.

>>How does a person get into Heaven?

take the test...

http://www.needgod.com/

>>A God that is vain enough to require the people he created worship him isn't worthy of being worshiped.

from original post:
He desired for His unique creation, mankind, to freely love Him. The reason we get confused about the meaning of our lives is that God gave us a choice to freely love Him or not to love Him. God gives us this freedom to choose because He wants us to freely love Him. He has to give us free will in order for us to love Him.

God is the perfect gentleman. He is not forcing us to serve/worship Him. We do so by our free will and faith in Him as the Almighty Creator God of love to us as revealed in His Word called the Bible.

>>If it were simply about worshipping and glorifying God, then it should be a 24/7 effort. We should be building monuments 24/7, ... The building should never stop

Knowing Christ is not as much as doing but as being/living/serving...a changed heart thing...from the inside-out. Pleasing/obeying God but helping out your neighbor too...

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

" How does a person get into Heaven?"

take the test...

That test seems to indicate that you get to Heaven through works. Do you believe that is an accurate summation of that test, Broadway?

Actually I don't think the questions have much relevancy or perhaps there are better questions to ask. Or maybe instead of asking questions, listening might be in order.

If there is a heaven, and we get to go there, we only go there, if we know absolutely that we deserve to be there.

If we have lied to ourselves, hidden stuff, suppressed, rationalized away those things that are not worthy, then we stay put until we have no longer done those things.

That's purgatory.

If we deny all of it, refusing to surrender self and soul to the greater good, then we burn.

That's hell.

In my twisted vision of things theological, every person in hell, will have went there on their own. No being forced down the tube, just acceptance that you are an evil mo-fo, who can't do the time in purgatory to change it.

This video I think gets a bit carried away, but does make an interesting point.

Purgatory is something you don't hear much about anymore. I wonder why.

But Broadway, do you believe that works plays ANY part in your salvation?

If belief means "works" to you yes but it's more of a decision/choice...a want to...but the Bible also states that faith without works is dead so their should/will be a witness of your faith/should be lived out/shown to all around you.

Chickenjuggle, I like your questions...to be honest you're stretching me (along with Chris!)but that's ok

The video post is a gross mis-representation of what the Bible truely says and they are very clearly twisting it to state their agenda.

Chickenjuggler, you should do some reading on the Protestant Reformation. Basically, in the 1500s, Martin Luther led a movement away from the Catholic Church that has led to most if not all of the protestant Christian churches of today. Protestants in general believe not in "good works" as a path to Heaven (as Catholics traditionally do) but in accepting Jesus into your heart and living a Christ-like life as the real path. Purgatory I believe is mostly a Catholic concept. And Catholics and Protestants are miles apart in many of their beliefs.

Andrew

It is from the Catholic church. I find them interesting because of all the structure and secrecy!

Nobody knows what the meaning of life is. It's the world's oldest unsolved mystery and always will be.

Anybody claiming to know the meaning of life is simply guessing.

Agreed, Andrew...and God bless Martin Luther, a giant of the faith.

You are exactly correct that Protestants stress God's grace, rather than works...also known as earning your way into Heaven. The bottom line is that while we are to follow God's Word, no one is 'good enough' to make it on their own works.

The closest that Protestants get in 'earning' their way to Heaven is in the following Scripture:

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22

However, compared to the Romanist church, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, who all have added or altered at least one document to fit their works agendae, the Protestants are pretty much Sola Scriptura, or use the Bible alone. We're told in the Bible not to add to or subtract from it. That's how cults get started.

Herb

It's how your cult got started too. They all start from something...

Thanks Herb and Andrew for the helps/explanations! As you have probably surmised I am no theologian here...just a lowly radio geek like most of you who has not nor need to know nothing different than faith in a living-loving God all my life and have an assurance of an eternity with God as promised in His Word. Last I checked 10 out 10 people will die during their lifetimes...where will you spend eternity???

>>It's how your cult got started too. They all start from something

Cult means a sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

Cult is man made...Christianity is relationship with the Creator God...but it starts with faith that He exists....just look up!

>>Nobody knows what the meaning of life is. It's the world's oldest unsolved mystery and always will be.

Prove that there is no answer to the meaning of life.

If God created man in his image, who's image were dinosaurs, Neanderthals and Cro-magnon man created after?

Republicans!

Christianity is a cult and was made up by man to control man. All religions by definition are cults. Some cults are more accepted than others based on how long they've been around and the number of people that believe in them. You have belief in things that are could be considered to be false or extremist (no way to prove them).

>>God created man in his image

for years I thought that from the Genesis 1:26 scripture but it's so much more than physical appearence. God experiences much of the same emotions and thoughts as us humans...wait...He created us so that's where we "acquired" all to be human.

And if God created man in his image, does that mean that God has a belly-button?

And why?

So...was God just practicing when he created the dinosaurs and decided he wasn't happy with the way things were turnin' out...T-Rex's arms were too short, that kinda thing...so he decided to give it another try yet the Neanderthals weren't exactly what he had in mind so he went back to the drawing board and felt, though certainly an improvement, the Cro-Magnons were still not quite right. Then he tried again and came up with modern man? Is that right?

Yes.

"does that mean that God has a belly-button? "

CJ that is actually a question that many students in seminary are asked as part of their final and formal education as they literally stand before other pastors. (At least in Presbyterian circles)

The actual question is "Did Adam have a belly-button?"

Simple question. Theologically deep.

Herb and Andrew nailed it with Marin Luther. I do come from a reformed tradition in my Presbyterian tradition. Grace plays a huge role. It’s about the changing of the heart. Which I believe was what Jesus was most emphatic about.

The Heaven/Hell issue I leave to the theologians and biblical scholars. Jesus called Heaven “paradise.”

Also don’t be mislead that the scriptures are some easy read down salvation lane. There are some things written that are very disturbing and x-rated, especially in the Old Testament. But they are a necessary background and grounding when Jesus appears in the New Testament.

I always shudder slightly when people say, “Just read the bible and all your questions will be answered.” For me that’s pie in the sky theology. You have to grind scripture out. Wrestle with it. Question it. Research beyond the pages of the bible.

Herb and I have our favorite theologians, CS Lewis, Bonhoeffer. I like Karl Barth, William Barclay, Peter Marshall and others. These are people who studied the pages of the bible not just for some light reading, they took it on intellectually especially CS Lewis. “Mere Christianity” is a good start to introduce you to Lewis. Herb may have another suggestion.

Broadway/Dan I appreciate your honesty in sharing what is a real thing in your life. I don’t deny that your faith in Christ has been at the center of your life. But each of us comes from very different backgrounds and life experiences and like Jesus we need to hold those differences with respect. Even those who feel what we believe are a cult, or a fantasy or a huge myth.

Remember the words of Jesus in his first public speaking engagement from Luke 4:18 “…(God) has anointed me to preach good news to the poor…”

He said these words (right out of Isaiah) in front of his home church. In front of the elders that knew him as a child. He went home to start his ministry.

CJ,

Though I'm still waiting for Broadway's response, in the meantime, thanks for clearing that up.

(And, I don't know if you know, but God was actually from Australia, too.)

Shut up.

What will happen to all those Saudis who worship Allah when they die? Where will they go?

!!!

Laughing hard at CJ. I asked that as a kid, REPEATEDLY!

Was always fun discussion.

My favorite follow ons:

If they actually say yes, which is really asking for it IMHO, then why does a perfect being need one of those things? Does God then have a father and mother, if so, who? And are they eternal, if so, well then why have a birth, do eternal beings even do birth?

About that belly button again...

Heh..

On topic, I think the purpose of life is to exist, grow and reproduce, period.

If we get to have some fun along the way, great, but that's a total bonus.

By the same token, does God have an Adam's apple? and if so, what did he call it before he created Adam?

Why don't Women have an Eve's apple?

Or do they?

Amus, Eve had an apple. She fed it to Adam.

CJ, The belly button question is a good one.

Thanks for your insight Andrew and Chris. I disagree somewhat that Protestants have a less fiery hell than Catholics. The rhetoric of "fire and brimstone" is popular with many faiths. Some Protestants also believe that putting the folks they do not agree with through hell is noble and just. Still, it is hard to ignore the fact that Catholicism actually mapped hell, so they do win on that point.

Broadway, I have a challenge for you. Chris shared a short and solid list of theologians. I think that writers and philosophers are a good resource too. Do you like Tolstoy? He is a literary giant to be sure. If you have not read What I Believe or The Kingdom of God is Within You, I have provided free copies. This might give you a bit of insight into what God means to me, and I suspect, more than a few other folks.

Here is a deluxe Monty Python thread hijacker. It includes a sing-along, a moment of solemn reflection and a classic mash up. Oh, what the hell, here is the Meaning of Life too.

You might hit Missing up for some popcorn.

I can't believe nobody said "42".

The problem is we don't know the question!

Missing Douglas Adams, and yes I do know where my towel is.

Ford Prefect rocks!

"Nobody knows what the meaning of life is. It's the world's oldest unsolved mystery and always will be."

Well, I was going to say it but from the looks of things, Missing beat me to it..........

What the Bible truely says.

Which Bible???

I just know that living simply and honestly makes for the best policy for me. I’ve seen a good deal in my years, both good and bad. I’m not sure if it was God, good luck or a fortunate set of circumstances that got me through some rough spots. But I made it through and things continue to improve. I do struggle with the religion issue because of the hypocrisy I see in people who preach one thing but live another. Too, I find way too many holes in the Bible – and it makes me rather uncomfortable. I cannot conceive of following it literally; that just doesn’t make any sense. And the thought of all those who have died at the hands of others in the name of Jesus Christ doesn’t sit well with me. I find it all so complicated – and rather frustrating because I want to believe in some higher form of life.

It IS very complicated and complex, Talpdx. At least for some it is. I feel like if there is a God, he has helped me be part of who I am. I take some responsibility and even blame. But there are core issues that for as long as I can recall, I feel I belong to and they me.

A little backstory;

I wasn't raised in a home that ever went to church. I was interested, even led, to seek out and kind of shop around for a church when I was a Sophomore in High School. I wasn't coming from a place in which I felt empty, wounded or bottomed out. I felt quite comfortable with who I was at the time and felt relatively blessed to be seeking God from a position of being genuinely grateful for just about everything in my life. I've always tried to show gratitude and knew, just on a human level, about the risks of taking things for granted. I wanted to seek out whomever was causing me to not only be so fortunate, but thank whomever made me FEEL it. That sounds overly pious. It's not.

So after some shopping, I found Beaverton Foursquare with Ron Mehl at the helm. He made sense to me. He was folksy and his sermons were detailed and well, complete. I learned how to actually LEARN about God. It's something I wanted and was thirsty for and found myself, yet again, grateful to have been shown.

After some time there, I had an opportunity to go to Multnomah School of The Bible in Portland. I took the shot and majored in pastoral studies. It's not that I wanted a church of my own or to be a pastor, I just wanted to know what a pastor knew. It interested me on an intellectual level and filled me on a spiritual level. And while I can't say that I have any regrets, I did come to realize that humans, speifically men in power of teaching, often got in the way of my developing relationship with God. The environment at Multnomah was overly burdened by man-made rules that just plain felt wrong. No matter how empowered they felt they were, or anointed they thought they were, or stubborn, I just could not shake the feeling that Multnomah was invoking rules just for the sake of rules. Control. Now, I had never had any problem with authority - until then. So here I was, feeling led to a place, and yet living in an environment that treated me with very little trust. I felt I was open to being led, entertained and even just plain old schooled - but I was treated like someone who had very little to offer unless it was to serve the man made agenda implemented by Multnomah. By breaking with them was over something quite mundane, but emblematic of the scene there; I, as an adult, who had saved to go to the school and had been accepted and had a wonderful resource of living at home in Beaverton while I hit the books, was asked to give up all of that so I could live on campus...at a significant additional expense, of course. I felt like the only reason for that was to exercise control of my environment. I disagreed with that rule and finally left after a year and a half of battling. I think they would have been fine with me fighting it and continuing to attend thourghout my time there. While outwardly gracious of them, inwardly I found it to be hypocritical. It bugged me enough to follow my own heart and make a change.

Now who do you suppose put that splinter in me? Frankly, I believe God did. And as soon as I left, I felt rewarded by a closer relationship with God that has never been surpassed. I spent a long time thinking about why I went there and why I left. And not to sound like some sort of chosen one, but after I left, I developed what felt like something that some call " Discernment of Spirit." It's not a parlor trick. But it feels like it sometimes.

I have been able to rely on that gift in so many cases that it has saved me pain and suffering and possibly even my own life on a couple times. The times in which it has failed me, without exception, I can trace it back to me ignoring my instinct to do something else. Or to being closed minded on another's perspective. Or just being tooproud and wanting a different path or result for myslef or possibly others too.

And this is the very thing that I claimed to hate. I was now the hypocrite.

The lesson I learned was that I do not know everything. But I am quite content with a quiet relationship with God. And he, with I. I can have private beliefs and never share them with anyone with words or telling someone else " I know what you need. You need God. And you need ME to show him to you through my own prism. My prism is singularly focused and without flaw or fault."

Anytime I spend my thoughts about some kind of debate issue regarding the Bible, I get the feeling that some of the minutae involved has become so distorted, by humans, that God is telling me to not get worked up about that. I feel like I am being told that I know enough to get into Heaven and if there is a Heaven, I will be there. No matter how many times I failed the test cited by Broadway.

But I'm not living to get into Heaven. I'm living because I have been convinced living this way is better than not. The virtues spoken about in The Bible do not make me FEAR God. They make me grateful that I can live my life, quietly and without being perfect and know that others who claim to have a relationship with God, will respect that and understand that that is MY call.

I could support that belief even further - but this is enough for me now.

So my take is that I am doing fine. If I wasn't, or rather, when I'm not, I have tools and resources available to me to work on those things. And they don't always come from The Bible. Often the come from others' actions. Humans, as flawed as they are, can be quite inspiring.

Is that not a large part of the goal?

I got a little loose at the end there. I don't feel like editing it though. Sorry in advance for any headaches induced by a Chickenguzzler post.

"I'm living because I have been convinced living this way is better than not."

This resonates with me, big time. There is a whole lot of stuff that gets you to being able to say this. Stuff I agree with at a very low, primal level.

Well, I for one, am happy you posted it. Interesting stuff. Thanks.

Hey Broadway, nice thread man. Well done.

If we end up here sometimes, it's all worth it. I value hearing how and why others got to where they are and if it matters to them and why. It helps in a lot of ways beyond entertainment.

>>I feel like I am being told that I know enough to get into Heaven and if there is a Heaven, I will be there. No matter how many times I failed the test cited by Broadway.

CJ...appreciate your candidness regarding your spiritual journey/history which I am glad you shared which is I think a very good one...Ron Mehl is a very gifted teacher/pastor who still "lives on" on local radio daily...sorry about the bible school experience...ya know...my wife at home even has a few "rules" of the house so there just always there so we find ways to deal with em. If you have given your heart to Christ during these previous years you have "passed the test"...especially if you feel that you are at peace with God.

CJ-

Great post. Honest and sincere. I love to read about people's journeys.

I am familiar with Beaverton Foursquare and Ron Mehl. Never did hear him in the pulpit on a Sunday morning but those that did were very impressed. He was one of the few evangelicals I came to respect.

I also have some ties with Multnomah Bible School. They had a radio show for years on KPDQ (not sure they still do). For almost two years I produced the daily 30-minute program without the help of today's technology. Spent many an evening in their recording studio finishing up projects and or duplicating the program.

I went to Whitworth College (now university) in Spokane WA. It was a 4 year Christian Liberal Arts Education. It was there I found out that there was this division of Liberal vs. Conservative theology. Even though I had grown up with a Presbyterian pastor for a father, we were always encouraged to ask questions and challenge authority, in respectful manners.

Whitworth was a great environment to explore not just theological thought but all aspects of faith, work and social justice. It was also loads of fun as well.

Control is a big issue especially with fundamentalist evangelicals. My wife has told me story after story of the abuse of power that was preached every Sunday in her home church. And how that weaved into some personal choices that would eventually cause great pain and suffering for her. She was able to break free from those chains and now has a really strong faith in God but has no need to be inside a church every Sunday.

Yes I see the hypocrisy within church walls. Don’t even get me started on church politics. What you see in today’s church is what you see in life everyday. This idea that church people (Christians, Jews, whomever) should hold some higher standard because they believe in God is a fallacy.

In my Presbyterian tradition the common ground is we all have shit in our pants and we all have to deal with it. There are no magic words, no waving of a wand that makes you become a “better” person. It’s the journey through life. You want meaning in life then live life and sort it out as you go. If you should recognize God along the way then so be it.

Choose to celebrate your humanity in all its ugliness and beauty. The Bible has some thought provoking and in some cases life changing messages to offer. But its not an answer book, it’s filled with stories of people’s journey’s not too terrible different than our own.

What makes Jesus so real to me is his humanity and for me that’s where it starts. He was one of us while at the same time divine. It’s often the cause of great discussion if that is actually true or not. I’ll leave that for you to decide.

>>Which Bible???

this one...

http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

>>so he decided to give it another try yet the Neanderthals weren't exactly what he had in mind so he went back to the drawing board and felt, though certainly an improvement, the Cro-Magnons were still not quite right. Then he tried again and came up with modern man? Is that right?

I believe in the Genesis account in the Creation of man/women. What's interesting to me and I'm no expert on the human skull but pictures they have of Cro-Magnons/Neanderthals skulls look pretty modern man to me.

This is a hard concept for me to grasp...God is perfect and has not nor will not make a mistake.
We need to understand that He is a supernatural being but understands each of our wants/desires/hurts/needs with His love to us as express by His Son Jesus Christ and we understand Him most fully by faith in Him.

GOTTA HAVE FAITH (hey...thats some song?)

>>This idea that church people (Christians, Jews, whomever) should hold some higher standard because they believe in God

Amen...Christians/Christ followers are not perfect...just forgiven/redeemed from their sin life and accepted for eternal life in Heaven with Him...all by faith.

>>The Bible has some thought provoking and in some cases life changing messages to offer. But its not an answer book

Oh-No...a book written by man all inspired by God to be "life roadmap" for mankind...inspired by the Almighty Creator God of the Universe...think He can answer lifes questions from His word give to us.

He's real, intimate, knows our every thoughts and desires and loves us even in our sin/crud life.

Well, here's a question then.

If we can have a relationship with God, why does the Bible need to be the answer book?

We have free will, therefore, it needs to be a guide, entry way, attractor, and it does that. Claiming it has all the answers doesn't resonate with the other elements of this discussion.

Broadway I think you're attempting to answer questions no one is asking.

Also the thread title might be better served if it was "Life has meaning."

If God is pefect, and we'll all born in His image, why then are well not all perfect? I can only assume it's not a carbon copy image.

Ugh,God-drek.
/turns and runs

“The Bible has some thought provoking and in some cases life changing messages to offer. But its not an answer book

Oh-No...a book written by man all inspired by God to be "life roadmap" for mankind...inspired by the Almighty Creator God of the Universe...think He can answer lifes questions from His word give to us”.

This I find rather confusing – but that’s in keeping with much of what Broadway adds to the theological dialogue. What’s not to say that any number of later day prophets are not inspired by God in the same way as those who authored the Bible as it is currently constituted? In all fairness, why should we dismiss them out of hand? I frequently hear and read material which speaks to my heart and could be easily interpreted as “divinely inspired”. Why it is inconceivable that a religion created today would not better reflect the wisdom of God? To blindly hold to an ancient religion might keep us from discovering an even deeper sense of the true meaning of our existence.

I must say that the only faith I have ever known is that of the Christian faith, as practiced as a Roman Catholic. But I’m at a point in my life where intellect and faith diverge. In good conscience I cannot take the Bible literally. There are too many holes in its text which make me question its legitimacy -- and I don’t say that lightly. But I can't imagine God hating me for that or denying me an afterlife in heaven. Wasn't I created in His image? Why would He take retribution on one of his own creations?

Thank God some real nutsos never had a hand in the writing of the Bible. Or did they? How do we know? Oh God, how come you never answer the REAL IMPORTANT questions asked of you?

The only important question to ask is do you know without a doubt that when you die wlll you go to Heaven?

Although most people say “yes” or “I think so” when asked “Are you going to Heaven?”, many are sadly incorrect about their ultimate destination. Most believe they qualify for Heaven because "I'm basically a good person" .
When you say you believe you are a pretty decent person, keep in mind that it is because you are comparing yourself on man's scale, not on God's. If you compare yourself to Hitler or Charles Manson, certainly you seem to be "good". But what if you compared yourself to Mother Teresa? Most people fall somewhere in the middle of these two extremes.
The Bible teaches that no one is good (Romans 3:10). Not you. Not me. Not Mother Teresa. Not the Catholic saints. Not even the Prophets God sent to earth in centuries past. Only God is good. (Luke 18:18-20)

Do you realize that it is impossible for a good, holy, perfect, truthful God to have in His presence anyone who has even made one mistake? Since that is the case, we have a problem: how can we come to live with a Holy God?

What is the answer?

When this life is over, we will each stand before God on Judgment Day and give an account for our life. No matter how good we tried to be, our best efforts will all be as "filthy rags" in God's sight, that is, if the sin separating us from God has not been removed.

God, who is holy and just, and therefore must punish sin, is also loving and merciful and does not want to punish us.

To solve this problem, God sent His only Son Jesus Christ as God incarnate, fully God and fully man, to pay our sin debt for us.

Learn more about Jesus Christ!
The only way to get to Heaven is to put our faith in Jesus Christ. Why is Jesus so important? He is the only one who lived on earth a sinless life. As fully God and fully man, he was tempted as we are yet was without sin.
A fellow sinner could never set you free from God's judgment by taking your penalty on himself. Only Jesus could qualify to do that.

With the sentence of death upon us, 2,000 years ago, God came in the flesh, stepped into our courtroom, and paid our sin debt Himself. Like a compassionate judge giving his own life to save the guilty, Jesus Christ took upon Himself the sins of the world - the just dying for the unjust.

This GIFT is absolutely FREE. Like any other true gift, it is not earned or deserved.

The gift of eternal life is received by faith.

Realizing that we cannot save ourselves, and that we deserve God's judgment for our sins, we come to Him by faith. With a heart willing to obey God, fully dependent upon Him, we place our faith and trust in Jesus Christ alone for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

"For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2

from...

http://christiananswers.net/gospel/goingtoheaven.html

Hmmm...

The Christian Scientists believe we are embodied in God, Matrix "there is no spoon" style! Our perception of being here, in this place, is an artifact of our limited capacity to grok the full nature of things.

God is everywhere in everything at all times.

They also, do not believe in hell and I'm confused as to what heaven means. I think it's a state where we trancend our perception here and experience something greater or closer is probably the word they would use.

In that context, free will is a very interesting discussion...

"The only important question to ask is do you know without a doubt that when you die will you go to Heaven?"

Even though I grew up in a Christian home, that question was never asked. What was asked, "How are you going to make a positive difference in your world?"

Why spend so much time trying to figure out where I will end up after my life is over and totally miss the adventure that IS life!!

Many Christian conservatives seem to drop the old "Do You..." on people. They are in a telling mode. This is where you need to be. This is what you need to do....blah blah blah.

People are told enough things in their lives without some Christians adding more "Do yous."

It took Jesus 30 years to actual start his ministry. We don't know a lot about his childhood, but there was a reason he just didn't come flying out from the Heavens.

Jesus had to live life, engage in his culture, study what other boys in his day were studying. Play games and be apart of life. If anything Jesus is about living the life you are given to it's fullest.

However Dan you keep bringing up death and what happens after we die. It's more scare tactics and to be honest not at all how Jesus dealt with people. Just look who Jesus hung out with. Certainly not people I'd want at my house or for that matter in my church. But the thing is, they are in my house and in my church but I just don't know who there are.

If you want to make a difference in the lives of people then be Jesus to them. Make a difference by simply being their friend or sharing a meal.

I was asked to do the 5-minute children's sermon in church last week. It was about knowing who Jesus is. My question to the kids was "how do you get to know someone?" One answer was "You need to spend time with them." Which is my point of this post.

When I read your posts Dan they come across as a hands-off version of Christianity. You really don't want to engage with them on a personal level, that's Jesus job. Nothing can be further from the truth.

It's like some kind of goofy lock in!

Do X, Y, Z and you are then certified "known good" as opposed to the heathens, not certified "known good", and that kind of sucks!

Why?

Because the whole thing carries with it a holier than thou element that implies that the other person is some how less, without having established that the criteria for judgement is valid, and or that if valid, even matters!


Personally, I like to start from good and work on better. This puts everybody on an equal footing, which is where I believe we are anyway, and also encourages everybody to work together, building one another up, rather than trying to break them first.

(IMHO, that's just never, ever, good!)

Chris, I think what you just wrote applies to a whole lot of things in life and is worth consideration on that basis period, whatever, if ever anyone's faith may be!

"The only important question to ask is do you know without a doubt that when you die will you go to Heaven?"

No it's not. By your own measure and standard, it is not.

I don't believe in an afterlife or heaven, so it's not in the least a concern for me.

I do care about what happens after I'm gone, though. I don't have a family and probably never will have kids. So what will I leave behind? As I've reminded you here repeatedly, I'm a photographer. If I have a "legacy" I want it to be my photographs. I don't mean to exaggerate my own sense of self-importance to claim that the thousands of photos I've shot all all great and must be seen - I'm certainly no Ansel Adams - but I still want people to be able to see them after I'm gone, as they do now on my website.

So right now, my server runs 24/7 at home in a spare bedroom - my connection to the world. When I die, eventually someone coming into my house will ask, "What's this computer doing on - can I just switch it off?" Then that's it - no more pictures or website. So, I'd want to figure out how that is handled.

Beyond putting notes that say "DO NOT TURN THIS OFF IF I'M DEAD, Please keep paying the bills, thanks!" I'd like to figure out seriously what happens to my web content after I'm gone. You can't host (non-simple) websites for free. Who pays for it? Maybe I should just donate them or make them all public domain after I die, so anyone who wants them can have at it.

Perhaps it sounds silly, but it's one of the few things I worry about in regards to dying. I won't have family to come to my grave site (assuming I outlive my parents) so I don't care about any of that.

Andrew

Jesus Anderew, after reading your post, Im now getting very Depressed. Time to go double up on my Zoloft.

There is this:

http://www.myeternaljournal.com/

I also wonder what a serious query to the Internet Archive would generate? Who knows, there just might be somebody willing to host the stuff tomorrow for the traffic dollars today.

Might not be a bad idea to write the stuff to some enduring media, maybe a few copies, and arrange for some legal means for others to obtain it.

Actually, my content does generate enough traffic to be self-supporting I suppose - for the moment. But if my server crashes, what are my survivors supposed to do, conjur me up with an Ouija board LOL?

("What's the root password? Apache 2.2 has a required security patch to install!!!")

Bunsofsteel, sorry to bring you down. We're all going to die sometime. Why worry about it? Do what you do while you're hear on earth. As for me...I think I'll have a muffin, even though it might spoil my dinner. Why not?

By the way, one interesting exercise people sometimes do to look at their lives is to write their own obituary. What do you want it to say? If you would not be happy with your obituary as written today, perhaps its time to change your life.

Andrew

>>Why spend so much time trying to figure out where I will end up after my life is over and totally miss the adventure that IS life!!

life is short in the light of eternity (which is pretty long)

James 4 says...What do you know about tomorrow? How can you be so sure about your life? It is nothing more than mist that appears for only a little while before it disappears.

Important decisions for eternity can be made now plus we can enjoy this life too!

2 Cor 6...Indeed, the “right time” is now. Today is the day of salvation.

John 10... My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.

The meaning of life....


LIVE IT!

I believe that when you cross the threshold from this life to the next God will ask "Did you enjoy the life I gave you?"

Besides Dan you're preaching to the choir with me.

Just responding to your comments Bro...

>>"Did you enjoy the life I gave you?"

The parable of the talents applies I think here...From Matthew 25...

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.