This is a start:

http://www.cq.com/flatfiles/editorialFiles/temporaryItems/2008/20080515-tom-davi s-memo.pdf

Let's all take a read and discuss later on.

The guy writes a helluva memo. I can't argue with much.

What I don’t get is how the Republicans could let things get so out of control. They had it all, one party rule, campaign money, an increasingly conservative electorate. And then, they let it get go to their heads. Rather than acting like the party of fiscal responsibility, they’ve spent us into the poor house. Plus their foreign policy is a mess. Too, heavy reliance on the south makes it difficult to create public policy initiates that resonate with the majority of the country.

Like most things, party control changes. But to get hammered like this speaks of political leadership with VERY tin ears. I guess Karl Rove’s dream of a Republican majority is up in smoke.

Most of the memo dealt with perception problems, not actual execution problems.

This is telling in that they've not reached any real level of change yet.

It's danger time, limit the damage and move on.

After the election, maybe.

Talpdx, this lack of understanding of how and why harm is occuring is why they are out of control. They still believe most of the stuff done would actually work if it were not for others getting in the way, caught, meddling, etc...

"And then, they let it get go to their heads."

Yup. Remember "mandate"? Heh. They've nobody to blame but themselves. At least Nixon had a landslide win, but even he didn't think he had a "mandate."

(Note: the Nixon comment is relative to this thread.)

The GOP blew it because their ideology is inherently flawed. They pissed on their own green grass and now it's brown.

Blah, blah, blah.

In another fours years nobody will care or remember what happened during the past 8. Republicans will rise to power again.

Democrats will nominate Chelsea and loose another election. its how the world wants it to be.

Its how the world wants it to be.

And then EXTREMIST RIGHT wing loons will INVADE the White House again and fuck it all up for 8 years. WONDERFUL!

The bottom line is that George W. Bush killed the Republican party. It might have been saved if the congressional Republicans held the reign on him, but we know they didn't. The war is a mess, the spending is out of control and our standing in the world is in the toilet. WPE.

Ya, but Americans are stupid. We easily forgive people. Hell...Look at all the people that want to play golf with OJ!

Hell...Look at all the people that want to play golf with OJ!

But just think of all the people that want to put a bullet in his head as well....

What about all the heads HE wants to put a bullet in?

"The GOP blew it because their ideology is inherently flawed."

And your Marxism isn't?

Well, it isn't Marxism, and it isn't flawed.

We are at the pinnacle of "government does not work, privatize all we can so the market will take care of us" ideology implementation.

Result: Worst President Ever.

I would say that's a loss across the board, given the staggering number of corrupt scandals in the private sector after they were granted a very loosely regulated environment in which to "take care of us" (cough), I mean exploit us for maximum value to the share holders.

A growing majority of Americans are now beginning to understand that Governments make markets. The rules set insure those markets serve us with a greater quality of life, through competitive goods and services.

The goal of the corporation, unless it states otherwise, is to deliver max value to it's share holders. That means nothing else matters. People don't matter, the environment does not matter, it's own employees don't matter.

Unchecked that's ugly stuff.

Some say that competition helps to check that, given we will vote with our feet to get the best overall value. I would agree, given the whole thing operates within our system of government.

Problem is, it doesn't anymore!

(Which is why I don't like most of the trade agreements.)

The other problem is that without regulation, the default is to consolidate and litigate, thus removing competition, leaving us exploited beyond what is healthy for all of us in the longer term.

Some regulation --a setting of the rules such that business is constrained enough to force competition and limit exploitation is a role that government plays for our greater good.

IMHO, the key here is for all of us to vote our self-interest. The interests of the common man are very different from those of the very wealthy and powerful. The means available to both are very different as well, which brings balance too.

The pro-corporate traditional media bias we have today is a good investment for big business. If we hear that message framing all the time, it's very easy to come to a state of mind where we all are very concerned about the very wealthy making as much as we can.

We think this will bring us up too, Reagan style.

(not true)

A look around at the loss of our ability to build wealth, here in this nation, tells all the average American everything they need to know about how unregulated business works.

A booming stock market, powered by off shore exploitation, does us average working Americans ZERO good.

What we need is to build wealth here, with our labor so that our wage actually has buying power and that buying power then can bring security and quality of life.

This isn't Marxist --it's American and it's clearly demonstrated in the quality of our middle class seen pre-Reagan.

A return to those ideas would put a lot of people to work and build a stronger economy, meaning we can pay our national debts off, and with that bring our currency back into a position of real strength.

We can't compete globally on a service economy here. Doing each others laundry, nails, etc... does not a great nation make!

That's not building wealth, but a mere exchange of wealth for minor deeds.

Real wealth is innovation applied to labor over time for profit.

That's American business and we are damn good at it. The problem is that we apply innovation to labor overseas over time for profit that does not stay here and is not leveraged here.

That hole has impacted our middle class huge and the economic trouble we see today is a direct result of that.

Yeah, and Clinton went with the flow on this too. Bastard. Just so I'm being fair across the board.

A Marxist would carry that to a collective state of things where Government is a source of wealth. That's not the position of anybody that I know.

Socializing some things isn't being Marxist, and this too is a distortion. Why? Big business sees that as competition --tough competition because these things we choose to socialize run at low overhead and are not run to deliver max profit to share holders, but instead max value to all.

If big business allows that value expectation to get set, then people will see the reduced burden of it and expect it, thus pushing the burden to add real value, ie: real innovation applied over time, back onto them.

This, of course, is exactly what is needed to compete globally and actually bring the entire nation up, not just it's wealthy and powerful elites.

You see, most people have zero problem working for their dollars. Working hard means more dollars and that brings quality of life. It's damn tough to actually find work to earn those dollars from, when we've outsources damn near everything we know how to do.

What's left here?

Movies, music, toilets...

Go to the store and just try and buy American! Support your fellow, hard working citizens. Tough huh? I think so and I'm sick of it.

Got that stimulus check yet? Want to support the economy? Think about where those dollars are going.

They are going out of the country to pay for the wealth built by other nations, who now have the skills we pioneered, and are now enjoying the fruits of that, leaving us left exploiting every last bit of value here, such as houses, to pay for what we used to build right here at home.

If we don't check this, we will end up being a very sharply divided nation, with most of the divide being American citizens living third class lives with little hope for improvement because they have no viable means to build wealth for themselves.

And, what wealth they do accumulate is taxed right out of their pockets through currency devaluation.

Again, not Marxist at all. So, let's just keep that in perspective huh?

And your Marxism isn't?

How about YOUR elitism?

So, let's talk about markets some.

What about the markets here for labor?

Those are pretty horrible right now. Wage pressure downward is very high. This is due to there being very little demand for skills of many kinds. Sure, there are niches, but those move and shift.

I myself have had to move and shift multiple times.

Really sucks to build up skills, market them to better ones own self, only to see them moved off shore. How many times do we all want to do that?

Most people I know don't want to keep doing that, unless it's an upward trend, not just treading water buying power / hour worked wise.

(which is the case for the majority of Americans right now)

I don't know about you guys, but despite building personal value that equates into fairly regular and solid wage gains year over year, my buying power has not kept up!

That's regular and substantial wage cuts! Nobody wants that either.

So that's a pure labor perspective. Now let's talk about being an entrepreneur! I'm ready for this. It's the American dream, right?

(I think so)

Guess what? The "I have mine, go and get yours" neo-conservative ideology has made this very, very difficult and extremely risky. Not to mention intense competition from big business, who pays to litigate away the little guy regularly.

Not saying it can't be done, but it's extremely difficult. For me personally, it's health care. The only thing that keeps me from building my own business right now is that.

If I get it through an employer, I'm ok. If I were to get it on an individual basis, I'm just hosed! The way things are structured right now, employer based health care is solid, if expensive. At least one cannot be canceled due to actually needing the health care!

Individuals trying this will find themselves priced right out, or just dropped unable to acquire new policies because of conditions. Nice huh?

And what do most employers think of this? They hate the cost, but love the lock in. The result again, is not good for the average American.

That's just one factor, there are many others both regulatory and economic that prevent the growth of new business here.

Patents out of control are another one. Again, big business can patent damn near everything, claiming their various intellectual fiefdoms, locking out the little guy looking to innovate and see their own American dream come to fruition.

A good friend got burned on that one. Started a business, saw big business patent something that used to be obvious or outside the privy of patents, such as software and business processes, and literally had to close up shop for fear of big business litigation.

That's not good for us either.

When we compete with attorneys and buying law, the average guy loses, and as a whole, we lose as a nation, again suffering in an environment where it's very difficult to actually get out there and build real wealth through real innovation over time.

Most people I know want to get out there and work for their dollars. When they get them, they want to buy stuff, and invest to improve their lives.

That's what I want to do too.

The thing that makes this most possible is not some Marxist vision of the state being the fatherly provider of all. It is instead a robust and vibrant commons where we all work, play, grow and build wealth.

This commons has been diminished and the burden of maintaining it has been pushed largely off onto the little guys as well, meaning we are literally paying for the big business to then over exploit us.

Loser for us.

Additionally, a growing portion of this commons is being shifted into private hands. These are monopolies created by the government and have no real competition, yet do still have the drive to make profit.

That's a loser too, where elements of the commons are concerned. It's not always a loser, depends on if it's a luxury item or not.

Having outsourced everything we know how to do, we are now selling the nation itself!

Selling roads, resources, whatever we have to maintain the flow of buying power that left with all the skills and jobs.

The commons is rich with value, having largely been built up over time, with very substantial building occurring with New Deal type thinking and effort.

We have foreign nations owning that commons, one road, bridge, utility, you name it, at a time.

What are they buying them with?

Our dollars!

Why?

Because they are rapidly growing worthless for anything else!

Is that Marxist? Absolutely not. It's rational economic problems caused by fundamental mis-conceptions about how things really work and what trade really means.

This started mostly with Reagan, and has continued, through Clinton BTW, up to present day WPE Bush.

Again, I'm flat sick of it. Seen enough. It does not work, won't work, and is putting us in grave danger economically, if we are not already there.

How much is enough for the power elites? How much of the nation must we sell before we decide to actually start building here again?

If we sell too much, we lose our sovereignty in that we can pass all the laws we like, but our freedom to be Americans will have been sold to the lowest bidder.

I want a robust labor market for my kids. For that to be a reality, we need a solid commons for them to work, live and build in. We've already sold a huge chunk of their future. Again, how much is enough?

The only good news I see in this is that we are a strong and innovative people. If we check some of this crap, I don't think it will take all that long to build up and start creating wealth again.

With that will come a sharp reduction in trade deficits and with that comes a situation closer to parity where settling our debts is concerned.

All it takes is a shift away from this government can't work ideology that has left us raw, naked and over exploited.

One more perspective.

Let's say we are building a business. What's are the biggest challenges?

Risk and capitalization.

Those are the killers. The usual approach is to keep overhead and risk low. People are usually the most expensive element here, so wages matter. However, for a lot of businesses, energy is expensive too. Moving goods or people to deliver services is rapidly impacting any ability to remain competitive.

Now that commons becomes important too.

Say one of those people gets sick and is currently enrolled in the McCain fend for your self health care plan. So we lose that person and with them goes the value they bring, the knowledge and the relationships they had.

A part of the business literally dies and with that goes the stability and the viability associated with it.

Risk then goes up.

If we do the work to maintain a robust and stable commons, risk goes down.

The big secret that NOBODY talks about is that we pay for risk in terms of dollars.

Going on the cheap means taking higher risk. It then is a gamble that the more it's exploited the more people will fail. Take too much and we see collapse.

Look at the state of the major financials right now for a shining example of that! Risk was converted into dollars, making a big ass bubble, that's now coming home to roost.

Pay now or pay later, risk must always be paid for. So, we either distribute it for stability, or we push it off onto segments of our population so that some can profit at the expense of others.

Sound familiar? Does to me.

The average American today is living with a higher risk burden than ever before. Wonder why we see so many people in debt, bankruptcy, business failing, etc...?

This is why.

An investment in the commons benefits everybody, be they big business or smaller business.

The reality today is that big business wants all the dollars with as little of the risk as possible. They paid to make that happen because we said money is speech.

Now, you know why I think Obama is a good President! Money is speech and he's figured out how to leverage our speech, one small donation at a time.

(and that's why we see all these efforts to change how the net works, BTW. It's competition for big business who really does not like the idea that we have some parity in the money is speech arena.)

If we all vote our self-interest, this stuff will go away. It will be checked as it should, and the nation will run better as it should.

The end result will be big business making a bit less and paying for more of their share of the risk we all carry. They will still make a ton of money, as they should, but the little guy will make more too and overall quality of live, represented by the health of the middle class, will rise, leaving us strong and viable as a nation.

That's what I need to see for me, my kids and my fellow Americans.

Not Marxist at all. 100 percent American man.

Getting back to that small business... Building that up in an environment where the commons is robust means a lower risk environment. If the risk is low, the need to capitalize the business is lower, meaning the barrier to entry is viable for a greater share of potential business owners.

Result is more innovation potential to be applied to a more rich and skilled labor pool. The labor pool is more rich because it makes more sense to invest in them, build skills, or for them to invest and build skills because the RISK of seeing those devalued is lower for EVERYBODY.

The neo-conservative ideology has pushed risk off onto everybody but big business. That has crushed our middle class, our small business and our ability to innovate here.

We need to fix that huge.

Finally, let's take a hard look at that memo now.

Notice it does not address any of this. The battle in the minds of the Republican party core is over the perception that this bull shit ideology can work, not over how to get the nation to work better for all of us.

Until this is addressed, the Republican party numbers are going to continue to fall. They will continue to fall because no matter how much effort is spent on trying to create the perception of success, the real measure of success involves getting up in the morning and facing the lives we all live.

That disconnect has been growing for some time. It's taken years for it to reach a point where it's critical and we are here now, right now, today.

When we see Republicans, interested in building a better America for their constituents, then we will see solid growth in the Republican brand again and it will not be a dirty word any more.

We are not there yet.

It's gonna take a very solid smack down for it to happen and ideally this coming election will deliver that.

From there, we will ideally see some serious and long overdue clarification over what is conservative and all this other axe grinding crap being used to take us off course.

As it stands today, the Republican party invites everybody with an axe to grind to the party, but fails to actually deliver. That's the magic formula!

To get this neo-conservative ball rolling, a game of Rope a Dope was played and it worked! Worked very well actually. Problem is the ideology didn't! So here we are today.

Everybody knows what happens when too many people vote Republican.

The core of the party is composed of:

power elites, filled with greed,

bigots,

racists,

dominionists,

pro-lifers,

nationalists,

theocrats,

and everybody else with some core character flaw that prevents them from just getting along and working with everybody else to play a game of fair ball.

The strategy was simple. Pander to these "nothing else matters people", promising them their law, norm, acceptance, validation, whatever they need to get through the day, in exchange for support of these absolutely misguided economic policies.

That was combined with deregulation of the media to form a noise chamber and permit a strong corporate bias to bolster the perception that this is all really good for us.

Want that Christian Nation? Vote Republican. End Abortion? Vote Republican. White Supremest? Vote Republican. Believe that Men rule the earth? Vote Republican. It's all there, largely embodied in the 23 percent die hard Republican base.

These are all issue voters. Pick some core issue and combine it with a poor world-view and a healthy dose of just not being all that well educated or informed enough to leverage that education, or maybe just structure the policy to keep those so educated from really feeling the impact until it's too late, and get votes and change policy.

That's the party right now and it just sucks. This is why I'm not a Republican right now. Can't stand the idea of actually having to admit I was one, that I bought the bull shit hook line and sinker. Complete dumb ass.

Well, now I know better and will gladly support Real Republicans and Real Conservatives, who share the common goal of making this nation strong, robust and vibrant for all of us.

I've zero interest in playing this shit game anymore. No issue is worth this crap. NONE.

Deane, please explain why you are calling me a "marxist". Do you even know what the term means?

While there are many theoretical and practical differences among the various forms of Marxism, most forms of Marxism share:

* a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[4] of workers by the owners of capital
* a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production
* an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations
* an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable
* a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change

Calling someone a Marxist is awfully Joe McCarthy to me. With that said, having reasonable controls in free market only make sense. If we didn’t, it would be chaos.

But back to the Republican vs. Democrat issue. Republicans have squandered a great opportunity to be the majority party. They got greedy and made some rather absurd decisions about how to move forward as a party. Plus they’ve been in total denial about the state of the economy and how it’s impacting the lives of working Americans. Where is George W. Bush on the economy? He needs to be more aggressive and yet he behaves like Calvin Coolidge.

I’m looking forward to having a president and a Congress that address issues of real import in a way that takes into account the lives of the American people – and not solely how it’ll impact American industry. There needs to be a health balance, and quite frankly, this administration has sided almost entirely with industry. And the only thing industry cares about is making their shareholders happy. It cares less and less about this country – just look at how it’s shipping more and more jobs overseas. And our government promotes this notion – it’s really pathetic.

If we want to stay competitive, the government needs to play a constructive role in helping us transition to a global economy. Quite frankly, both parties have dropped the ball on this matter. But I’m convinced the Democrats would do a better job in making the transition successful for the American people. The Republicans hold to this idea of doing it on your own (pull yourself by your own bootstraps bulls*it), and that isn’t going to work. People deserve help when it’s necessary, and we are in the midst of those times.

"I’m convinced the Democrats would do a better job in making the transition successful for the American people."

What, in your view, can the government do?

The first thing is paying for lifelong learning. The current retraining programs for displaced workers SUCK. And I know that from personal experience. If we want to stay competitive, we need to be able to seek training at will – and the government should take the lead in paying for it.

The second area is health care. Where in the developed world do they have such an inconsistent strategy in terms of offering health care to its citizens? And why should companies be startled with paying such oppressively high health insurance rates when their global competitors don’t have such a burden. It would make sense to find an alternative to the current structure.

The third area is factoring in the impact of job losses when negotiating trade agreements with international trading partners. The trade agreements our country routinely ratifies do little to weight the impact of job losses in this country. And the terms of the agreements favor the other participant in the agreement.

That's a start.

Deane, anybody could have googled "Marxism" and copied and pasted what you did in about 10 seconds. I know what Marxism is. What I want to hear from you is WHAT beliefs of mine do you classify as being "Marxist". Please compile a list.

Personally, I believe I hold no beliefs in agreement with Marxism. Therefore, what you said is about me is a lie.

"Please compile a list."

Do you really feel you're worth that much effort?

Talpdx, who's going to pay for all of that?

Well, we're shelling out $12 billion a month for the war in Iraq. Today, we've paid out nearly $700 billion dollars for the war in Iraq. That doesn't include the billionaire tax breaks that haven't done squat -- except drive the deficit through the roof and benefit the wealthiest among us. The trickledown theory sold to us for years is a pile of s*it. My first order of business would be closing the loopholes in the tax code. That would save hundreds of billions. Then of course ending the war in Iraq.

I have no compunction about paying for programs that make sense. It’s necessary and other countries in the developed world do a much better job of providing not only lifelong education, but health care as well. Our current system is pathetic – and needs major reform if we want to stay competitive. Why is it that businesses can reinvest in their operations (often with the aid of government through tax incentives) all the while government isn’t supposed to do didly squat for it citizens when it comes to an economy in transition.

Plus we have major infrastructure needs that if we don’t start paying for now, our network of roads, highways, freeways, airports, and rail lines will fall into total disrepair. Our capacity to move people and products around the country becomes jeopardized and leaves us in a bit of a pickle.

Remember all the critics that said the war was going to hurt?

Well, Bush put it on the hurt later plan.

The cost to build the nation is going to hurt now, as we will pay for that cost, or continue to suffer a growing economic strain.

We could have done these things and not even felt the cost, given we didn't hose up Iraq so badly.

Seems to me, all those making big bucks from that clusterfuck can easily afford to pony up for our own nations benefit.

"Do you really feel you're worth that much effort?"

Yes. If you level such a ridiculous charge, then I expect you to back it up. But, as usual, you're all potatoes and no meat.

Actually, I think he more closely resembles the serving spoon. The kind with the holes.

"Well, Bush put it on the hurt later plan."

Call me bitter, but I think Bush needs to personally share some of this hurt. Here's hoping for a miserable post-presidency and if I may dare say, pulls a LBJ and have the weight of a botched presidency lead to a premature dirt nap.

DJ said>>>
Do you really feel you're worth that much effort?

You DJ, certainly are NOT!

"DJ said>>>
Do you really feel you're worth that much effort?

You DJ, certainly are NOT!"

Are you ever going to move beyond these third grade responses?

Pot, meet Kettle.

Are you ever going to move beyond these third grade responses?

YOU first

What the HELL is this below????
Do you really feel you're worth that much effort?

WOW!
Your the brain trust!