http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24582429/

Former Republican Rep. Bob Barr launched a Libertarian Party presidential bid Monday, saying voters are hungry for an alternative to the status quo who would dramatically cut the federal government.

His candidacy throws a wild card into the White House race that many believe could peel away votes from Republican Sen. John McCain given the candidates' similar positions on fiscal policy.

Barr, 59, quit the Republican Party two years ago, saying he had grown disillusioned with its failure to shrink government and its willingness to scale back civil liberties in fighting terrorism. He has been particularly critical of President Bush over the war in Iraq and says the administration is ignoring constitutional protections on due process and privacy.

Barr's okay, but I think Ralph Nader would make a better president.

Herb

Neither Barr nor Nader have a chance, but, I think Barr could steal some votes from McCain more so than Nader will steal votes for Obama.

Naw.

No one knows who Barr is.

Everyone knows Ralph.

Run, Ralph, Run.

Herb

When I think of Bob Barr, I think of Larry Flynt’s Republican men of character – philandering cheats with a Bible in one hand and the room key to the No-Tell Motel in the other. Bob Barr treated his ex-wife like crap, but paraded around Washington like a paragon of virtue. If Clinton was a cad, then Bob Barr was cad to the tenth power. Bob Barr, just another example of the Republican Hypocrisy Machine, speaks about “family values” but sure as hell doesn’t live it.

Given that a lot of Republicans don't like McCain, do you think some of them will support instead Barr, one of the leaders of Bill Clinton's impeachment?

Andrew

The Republicans now have their own Ralph Nader.

Democrats can now say: "Run Bob Run!"

Are we talking about Bob "sometimes fills in for Rush" Barr?

I knew it couldn't be Sandy Barr or Candy Barr.

Not Bob Barr-ker? "Come on down!!!"

Sadly, I think Bob Barker would get more votes for president in 2008 than Barr will.

Andrew

"The price is right, bitch!"

What about Roseanne Barr?

And as Bob Barker and Drew Carey always say, "Please spay or nueter your pet."

> Barr's okay, but I think Ralph Nader would make a better president.

Please list some of Nader's proposed policies and explain why you support them. Do you support his open opposition of nuclear power?

I disagree with him on plenty of things, as I do with Mr. Bush.

However, I think Mr. Nader would clean up the corrupt lobby system.

Herb

In other words, Alfredo, HerrB has no idea how to answer your question.

He's a master of 'The Art of Vague'.

I can be nice to just about anyone, but care little about the ramblings of hardcore ham-fisted, hand-wringing, aclu-supporting, naral-backing, anti-defense, anti-2nd Amendment leftists.

Herb

What's your point? Who are you referring to? Me?

Sorry, but as usual, you're wrong. I've never ever participated in "hand-wringing", I don't have ham fists, I'm not really hard-core about anything except the Grateful Dead (in my younger days), I've never sent NARAL a dime, I don't really care that much about the ACLU, and we have a locked safe full of guns. And "rambling" is way more your forte' than mine.

Then maybe you're not so bad after all...and I don't recall you ever defending nambla, either.

Herb

Duh, those perverts should be removed from the face of the earth. Is there anyone here who doesn't agree with that?

Card-carrying members of the aclu.

Herb

"Card-carrying members of the aclu."

Totally debunked on several previous threads...

ignore time

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm

Like the little kid who turns over the checkers board while he's lost, or put his hands over his ears while yelling, run from the facts all you want.

The left is concerned about their defense of pederast organisations being closely examined.

Herb

I am against NAMBLA. Even the 8 year old article cite.

There. Now you know.

...By the way, the Libertarian Party's annual business convention, where they select their Presidential candidate, takes place next week in Denver. I am going to be a delegate at the conference. However, I am only there through lunch on Sunday, so I might not be around when they vote on the Presidential candidate.

Hey man, congratulations on participating on a level that many us never will. I'm impressed.

Did you know that there is a person from the Portland area who has been running a campaign to become the Libertarian Presidential candidate? His name is Mike Jingozian, and he operates an Internet advertising company called Angel Vision.

I suspect that Barr has the best chances of getting on the ticket because his name is the most recognizable. To minor political parties, it is a really big deal when a career politician from one of the major parties joins them.

Interestingly, while the other Libertarian Presidential hopefuls were sending out letters, doing speaking engagements, and visiting the business conventions of state-level affiliate parties, Barr lay low. I am eager to see how the different delegates and attendees feel about this surprise annoucement.

Then maybe you're not so bad after all...and I don't recall you ever defending nambla, either.

NOBODY and I repeat NOBODY has EVER and I repeat again EVER!!!! defended NAMBLA on this board!
EVER!!!!!!!!!!

"NOBODY and I repeat NOBODY has EVER and I repeat again EVER!!!! defended NAMBLA on this board!
EVER!!!!!!!!!!"

Wrong yet again.

By supporting the aclu which defends nambla, you're supporting nambla.

It's like defending satan, then denying one is defending evil.

Herb

I find that ironic. Given Herb's logic, he must support white Supremacists, neo Nazi, Jewish/African-American hating Christians – given their support of the Right to Life movement. I guess since these groups have accepted Christ into their hearts and are anti-choice, it’s ok for the Right to Life crowd to climb into bed with such vermin.

"...he must support white Supremacists, neo Nazi, Jewish/African-American hating Christians – given their support of the Right to Life movement."

Wrong.

Trixter is intellectually dishonest in denying the defense of nambla on this board. The fact is that the aclu, a group supported by the left, has chosen to defend them.

If white supremacists and neo-nazis were to support the right to life movement, [and ironically, the aclu defended the neo-nazi march on Skokie, Illinois] I would not deny that they happened to support the right to life.

But it wouldn't cause me to support their twisted agendae and it sure wouldn't make me add a bunch of exclamation marks in denying any such obvious support, either.

The reality is that neo-Nazis aren't a good fit for the Right to Life movement, anyway. That's because little black babies are being aborted at a far greater rate than little white babies and Right to Life defends the right of all babies to life, regardless of their heritage or skin colour.

Instead, neo-nazis would likely support Margaret Sanger's group....the radical so-called 'planned parenthood'...because she was an outright racist and wanted to abort minority babies.

http://blackgenocide.org/negro.html

http://www.acts1711.com/sanger.htm

Herb

To claim that because a person may support the work of the ACLU, they must support groups like nambla or neo-nazi’s. Absurd. That's as absurd as accusing the Right to Life movement to being nothing more than domestic terrorists and murders -- given the conduct of some of its followers.

The ACLU never defends organizations, they defend principles. Like the First Amendment, but some people are either stupid or intellectually dishonest.

As usual, this this thread has would up talking about the A-word, but I digress.

But given the lack of emphatic repudiation for terroristic and murderous conduct by some Right to Life members, I’m left to wonder about the relativism of the Right to Life cause as a whole.

Herb is both stupid AND intellectually dishonest. Clearly. Nobody here supports NAMBLA. To infer otherwise is complete bullshit.

It's like defending Satan, then denying one is defending evil.

So you defend the Devil. You side with DUHbya and the EVIL Bush administration and the fact they're in bed with Saudi Arabia.
YOU my friend are defending Satan and defending EVIL!
NOBODY but perverts defends NAMBLA.
You FULLY support the killing of INNOCENT women and CHILDREN and UNborn babies in Iraq.
Herb by all rights you are ONE DISGUSTING human being.
SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

" By supporting the aclu which defends nambla, you're supporting nambla. "

No I'm not. Watch me.

There.

Done.

You, Herb, like to pretend that you don't have the ability to operate in any grey area, unless it suits you. " He was flawed, but I am a Nixon man." You do it all the time. But if anyone else does it, they are Satan worshipers.

Got it.

And I think that I am going to remove you from all the things you get in my way about.

There.

Done.

I'm magic. Are you going to burn me at the stake now?

I think you need to be humbled. And I think you will be, quite soon.

I love your style man.

Sweetness.

I think you need to be humbled. And I think you will be, quite soon.

God takes his sweet time with certain people....

Say, by the way, I meant that as a reflection of impending election results. Not a personal threat. So if someone comes along and hits Herb with a car and causes a fender bender, it wasn't me.

Classic liberal approach.

Wish evil to befall those with whom you disagree.

This is America, whether you realize it or not.

Herbert Milhous Kissinger

Yeah, I wasn't doing that. In fact, I made an ADDITIONAL post to make sure you fully understood. THAT'S a classic liberal approach; Having to guard against Conservatives' willingness to ignore facts - but willing to spin them and twist them into something unseemly. But no. You only take away what you want and never the actual truth. How quaint.

Fine. Since you are going to take something harmful away from it, I may as well just say something like that, eh?...But no. Because I don't actually feel that way about you. No matter how much joy it would give you to wish evil to befall you, I don't feel that way. Does that make any difference to you? Of course not. Because you like to feel persecuted and pretend you are some Holy Victim. You'd RATHER I attack you on some level like that because you believe it gives you some kind of moral high ground. Nevermind that I, before you even posted, reiterated what I meant to say. Nope. It's a big game of " gotcha " to you. All pride. No heart.

Fucking pathetic.

You are such a little baby sometimes.

And in Herb's America, only Right to Life members are allowed to hold public office. Sounds much more like a theocracy then a democratic republic. Paid for by the committee to elect Randall Terry President; Herbert Milhous Nixon, Treasurer.

Nothing to do with a theocracy.

That would be like saying the abolitionist movement was only about religion.

This has to do with not killing the innocent.

Nice try, though.

Herb

Apology accepted.

Herb, you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Most notably, your reference to the abolitionist movement. Obviously, you don’t hold African-Americas or people of Jewish heritage in high regard because you constantly fawn over and defend one of the most notable racists and anti-Semites in 20th century political history, Richard Nixon. I don’t know how anyone should take you seriously.

Nice try at trying to have it both ways.

Mr. Nixon was deeply flawed.

However, he helped save Israel.

Nixon: The Anti-Semite Who Saved Israel

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=20065F8B-5EF2-48DA-86E1-178B60DC9A46

Any anti-semitic statements made by Mr. Nixon were wrong and against his Quaker upbringing.

And in addition to helping save the Jewish state, he also brought in VERY high-level staffers into his administration who were Jewish.

Like Mr. Clinton, Mr. Nixon clearly was sometimes his own worst enemy. But I'll take some stupid comments with a guy who gets the big things right over appeasers who want to surrender portions of the nation of Israel via death by a thousand cuts.

Herb

I appreciate Mr. Nixon's good works on behalf of Israel, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a terrible bigot. Praising him like you do would seem to call into question your better judgment, including on issues of race and anti-Semitism. I guess the adage "birds of a feather" must apply to both you and Mr. Nixon.

Nice ham-fisted generalisation there.

If 'birds of a feather' applies to me, then as I was saying, the left has an albatross named nambla around its neck.

You can't have it both ways.

Herb

Nobody that matters supports nambla. Nobody.

This is not a partisan issue at all, debunked, move on.

(debunked HUGE, repeatedly, BTW)

Nice ham-fisted generalisation there.

That's ALL you do Mr.

NOBODY supports NAMBLA here! END OF STORY! That's like saying that YOU Herb are a Hitler supporter because YOUR for YOUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY! Isn't that what Hitler did? THINK LIKE ME!
WOW! The EXTREME RIGHT LOVES Hitler's practices.
Don't YOU ever listen Herb?
NAMBLA is supported by NOBODY on this board. Thinking otherwise is just IGNORANT.

I love it, NAMBLA lovers. Herb's favorite boogie man. When he can't think of an apt retort, he calls you a NAMBLA lover. What he’s really trying to do is accuse the pro-choice element or “the left” of being child molesters. Even for Herb, that’s really pathetic. It just goes to show that his claim of moral superiority is baseless and reinforces the perception of the Right to Life crowd as just plain sleazy.

A very high percentage of people don't even know what NAMBLA is.

Nixon Americans Manage Boasting Lovingly Always.

"You can't have it both ways."

You're wrong.

Notoriously Angry Man Behaving Like an Ass.

Ooohh got my ass kicked on that one.

Nicely done sir!

Ooh Ooh...
No Argument Makes for Blatantly Lame Accusations..

I think Herb might know Nambla better than we all think.

Classic Clinton 'nuts and sluts' manoevre.

Those who are fine with aborting kids whilst supporting the aclu's position with nambla, then try to slime those pointing out such dastardly acts.

Slime on.

Herb

You somehow neglected to get Nixon, the Pope, and Ham-fists into that post.

I also think you are WAY too familiar with NAMBLA. You are the only one who EVER brings it up here, and you have been doing it consistently. For years. I've had enough.

As you yourself stated recently "GET SOME NEW MATERIAL."

It also gives me the impression that you don't give a rat's hiney about the girls, at least until they ovulate. Just the boys.

Classic Herb rhetoric, accuse those who disagree with him of being child molesters. Priceless and so very Christian I might add. Speaks well of his faith and morals (or lack thereof). In the end, his remarks cheapen the pain felt by those victimized by child molesters. But that’s OK in Herb’s book, because making such claims is thoroughly justified in his zest to ferret out those with whom he disagrees. Sounds like we having the makings of another J. Edgar Hoover.

Were I to support such dastardly groups, I'd try to shift the focus, too.

Shine a little light on 'em and watch 'em scatter, indeed.

Herbert M. "the K"

" Were I to support such dastardly groups, I'd try to shift the focus, too. "

Well that explains why you do it so much then.

*Ouch*

*Plonk*

*Set, game and Match*

Hell of a return CJ.

Remember the next-to-last scene in Fargo? That is where Herb's foot needs to be.

Given Herb's unhealthy infatuation with children, it explains why NAMBLA is such a favorite topic with him.

I think I need to quit giving herb any attention. Once again, I fell into his self-absorbed trap of stuff he doesn't even believe. I really blew it.

Herb, let's just call a truce and not try and have a conversation about anything anymore. You know where I stand on things, and I you. I think we can be human enough to recognize that, at some point, it's kind of unhealthy.

But for the record, I won all our debates.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Herbert Hoover Milhous

damn, you people are mean. Just cause you dont agree with him politicaly you want him thrown in a wood chipper?

No. I want to kiss him.

"I think I need to quit giving herb any attention."


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90% of the topics here(100% of Vitalogys) are directed at Herb. There is no reason to get mad when he only says what and how he feels.

Would you feel better if he just went along like the other sheep and agreed with the status quo?

Just cause you dont agree with him politicaly you want him thrown in a wood chipper?

No, that's not the problem -- people are allowed to have their own views -- its just we're tired of this broken record being jammed down our throats. A wood chipper would give Herb a taste of his own medicine.

Mc74, I still don't know how you went downtown and failed to see 72,000 people. You didn't pull a nwokie, did you?

Sorry but when I see people post topics in here and people then call out Herb to see what he says and or thinks you lost all your right to complain about him sounding like a broken record.

What about the 72,000 people. How did you miss them?

There is no reason to get mad when he only says what and how he feels.

Abortion, God, Gays, Guns and Nixon. That about covers what Herb feels. And that EVERYTHING should be his way or the highway.

His way or the highway? Does Herb come to your house and tell you how to live your life?

No, he just logs on a message board to vent like everyone else here.

And tell us that we're Devil worshipers, Commies, NAMBLA lovers, Godless humans and whatever else isn't HIS way.

Can 72,000 people ALL be wrong? No.

Sticks and stones...

What the hell do you care what some guy you would never talk to outside of this dumb place cares or says about you?

I would talk to him.

It's always better to find common ground and build from that, than it is to judge and shun.

We could talk about our adopted kids, for example.

This place is special. We get to just get stuff out there and push hard if we want to. That's all good, given it's kept in perspective.

"And tell us that we're Devil worshipers, Commies, NAMBLA lovers, Godless humans and whatever else isn't HIS way."

You left out pagans, along with naral and aclu supporters. However, in your defense, they're all reasonably close to the devil worshipper category in the grand scheme of things.

Herb

Spare us. There is no such thing as the devil. You sound like a blooming idiot when you talk like that.

>>whatever else isn't HIS way

Interesting statement. You are acknowledging God and that He has an opinion about life that is different than yours. Think of it...God...you...differing opinions...more trust in your human reasoning than God?

"Pagans are...close to devil worshipper...".

WTF?

You are out of you mind, and so wrong. Go polish something.

Does Broadway receive telephone calls directly from God while the rest of us are left with a busy signal? Perhaps it’s e-mail’s or daily faxes? If God tells Broadway one thing and me another, then what is He telling the other five billion people on planet earth? I’m sure it’s not a carbon copied message – that would be way too convenient.

I am on my way back to Portland from the Libertarian Party convention in Denver. I am running behind schedule because I stuck around until the conclusion of the Presidential and Vice-Presidential voting. This took all of Sunday because of the voting procedure used, wherein voting is done repeatedly to eliminate candidates until somebody achieves more than 50% of the vote.

The ticket ended up being Bob Barr (President)/Wayne Root (Vice-President). This outcome upset many of the more puritanical members of the party because of both men's prior affiliation with the Republican party and because of Barr's voting record. The negative opinions ranged from concerns that Barr and Root do not "get" Libertarian doctrine to suspicion that Republicans are trying to undermine the party.

The Presidential candidates that made it through the elimination (nominating) round to the ballot were:

Bob Barr
Mike Gravel
Michael Jingozian
Dr. George Phillies
Dr. Mary Ruwart
Steve Kubby
Christine Smith
Wayne Root

Dr. Ruwart came in second and Root came in third. For the Vice-Presidential voting, both Wayne Root and Steve Kubby joined, along with three people who were specifically seeking the Vice-Presidential office.

The decorum of this part of the convention left something to be desired. At one point, a cavalcade of Bob Barr supporters interrupted the meeting by parading around the convention floor with Bob Barr signs, showing disrespect to the delegates and the chair. Another lowlight was when Christine Smith was eliminated, and she was given a chance to speak, she used the opportunity specifically to attack Barr, rather than to endorse a candidate or to thank the delegates.

Alfredo how did Glen Jacobs speech come off on Saturday night? Glen Jacobs plays the part of Kane in WWE and is a longtime Libertarian card carrying member.

From what I got by watching just for awhile on C-Span was that the Libertarian party was being hijacked by Barr and his neo-conservative supporters who weren't "real" Libertarians.

Libertarians have some good ideas.

But until they deal with their unelectable positions on drugs, illegal pornography and how to deal with nations with evil intent, they'll always be a fringe group.

Besides, I like Ralph Nader better.

Herb

What is the libertarian position on drugs and illegal pornography?

From today's TIME magazine:

"Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally," Ruwart wrote. "When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will."

Ruwart's is a classic libertarian take — a defense of free will (even for "child performers") and an attack on government prohibitions of any kind. It's also political poison. As libertarian blogger Steve Newton put it, Ruwart and her allies run the risk of turning the party into "the poster child for NAMBLA and the aluminum hat brigade."

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1808384,00.html

I think you have some sick attraction to NAMBLA.

Libertarians are now NAMBLA members.

K.

I believe another lightning bolt from God is overdue.

Glen Jacobs might have been one of the speakers that talked during the mid-session lunch break or during one of the "breakout sessions." I don't remember seeing him, so I will have to check my convention schedule. Neal Boortz was also supposed to do a breakfast talk, which I was really looking forward to, but he canceled it due to knee surgery.

Did C-SPAN have commentators who said that the party was being hijacked, or did you get this impression from the coverage of what happened on the convention floor? There were a lot of attendees who shared this "hijacking" sentiment. There was a rumor that Barr had arranged for two buses to transport delegates to the convention. This is somewhat of a moot point, in my opinion, because the number of delegates that each state gets is determined by the number of Libertarian Party members in that state. However, Georgia did vote overwhelmingly for Barr. Despite that, in the early rounds of voting, Barr and Ruwart were almost tied--less than 10 votes out of about 160 per candidate separated them.

Right before I left, the delegate sitting next to me told me that the Washington Post had written up a smear piece on Ruwart that talked about her--um--highly theoretical views on the issue of child pornography. Her views do not represent those of all Libertarian Party members. Out of coincidence, while driving out to the convention, I heard an interview with Dr. Ruwart on AM 980 out of Yakima, WA. Their signal can be heard for a while along I-84. I was not impressed by what Ruwart said on the radio. She said that she wants the party to have a reputation for being extremist and that any attempts to make the party appeal to more voters is a compromise of its principles. This is why I did not support her. She may be a scientist and a highly intelligent person, but I think that she is wrong on the issue of what stances the party should take.

Bob Barr is a philanderer and failed conservative politician looking for a platform. Sadly, he seems to have high jacked the Libertarian Party and will use it to promote himself leaving true libertarians high and dry. What were they thinking?

Fact is, the left has links to nambla.

Herb

So does the right. So what?

>> If God tells Broadway one thing and me another,

How are you recieving messages from God? What is He saying to you? How are you responding to His voice and are you obeying His requests/commandments?

I think the point is that you are not receiving messages from God. But by all means, address the conflict between the scenario presented - and do it without answering a question with a question. It's rude.

That's your claim...my question remains...
Be a man of liberal ideaology...answer the question.

>>It's rude

again...crudities, vulgarities, and profanities directed at others on this board and I ask a simple question and get called rude. God help us all PLEASE!

Answering a question with a question is rude. Yes, that is my claim. I take it that you disagree. I can explain to you why I think it is rude, if you'd like. Or you can figure it out for yourself. Or you can get help. Either way, it's rude to pretend that the answer to the question posed lies in your questions without ever actually answering the question. That is rude.

Hey, I obtained a direct line to God over the weekend. (He's not the asshole some say he is.)

He says we need to focus on the basics:

-equality. We are all created in his image and have no business judging one another. That's his job.

-Republicans. He's got a very important message for you guys. You don't own the faith! Enabling the nut-bags to get power in his name is over stepping your bounds. God says he has enough power; namely, all of it! That's his business too.

-His Will. That's between him and everybody on an individual basis. Remember the judgement thing? Yeah, that's right. We are not perfect and he said so. That means we all need to shut up and focus on being the best people we can.

-The Bible. Basically, he says we've hosed that up beyond repair. Normally, he would just part the skys and give us a remedial lesson, but he also committed to free will for all of us, so that's out.

Now, you all prove I didn't have that conversation.

See how that works?

Thought so.

Alfredo

As usual with C-Span there was no commentary during the convention coverage it was just the impression I got from crowd responses to certain blurbs within the speeches and the response to Christine Smith's speeches.

"Answering a question with a question is rude."

Jesus did it all the time.

It makes those with errant reasoning, or less than noble motives, think.

Herb

"Fact is, the left has links to nambla."

Horseshit.

I'd bet that statistics would show many more children have been abused in conservative households and churches than anywhere else. All anyone has to do is look at the Catholic church, FLDS sect, Boy Scouts, and youth ministries and they are filled with right wing nambla wannabes.

" "Answering a question with a question is rude."

Jesus did it all the time.

It makes those with errant reasoning, or less than noble motives, think." " It also let's people who CAN'T think, hide. I do not believe Jesus did that. I do believe Broadway does.

But fine. When Jesus registers an account here, I'll accept that. Until then, Broadway's attempt to answer a question with a question was actually just bait for him to sit in judgement of whether or not the method used to speak to someone else was worthy of being from God. Because, you know, he knows the mind of God. Broadway ALONE knows what people need. He says so ALL the time. Then when he gets called on his arrogance, he feigns outrage.

And do you know how I know all this about Broadway?

I'll give you one guess. Actually, someone ask God how I know this about Broadway and relay God's answer back to me here. Let's put it to the test.

Broadway, you claim to speak for God all the time, just read your own posts. Perhaps you possess indigo sensibilities but are sworn to secrecy? Who knows?

Well, it took a while, but I finally got through on the God line.

Did you guys know he is working on a ton of universes? Yep, He was worried about Einstein big time letting that cat out of the bag, but right at the last minute he bagged on it, worried about the implications.

Good thing too, because we've got enough worries in this universe without people wondering about the other ones, how to get there, etc...

Anyway, on Broadway. God was sympthetic really. Handled it pretty well.

It seems that we've a pretty big problem with people getting the logic backwards! Some of us think that if we are good, and that we believe in God, that God then speaks through us to the others, we think are not so good.

This is one hell of an ego boost, BTW. God has that just on the edge of the sin list, but not quite as he understands egos. Having created them, for the entertainment factor, he's going to always give a bit of slack.

Now, the bigger issue, according to God, is these people representing him poorly. Word up folks! There is only ONE GOD. Thomas Paine was right on that, even if "Age of Reason" did sting a little.

The real logic is exactly the other way around.

We all can talk to God and each of us is wherever we are, be that good or bad. God says it's the conversation that's important. It's hard to expect anything more from imperfect beings. He totally understands and feels we can do the same.

Most of you complicate life way too much. God spoke to people all throughout the Bible in many different ways and even through a donkey in the Old Testiment in Numbers 22. He mostly speaks to His people through His Word called the Bible which is best understood by having a relationship with Him by accepting God's Son Jesus Christ into your life and turning/repenting from your sin/crud life which by the way millions and millions have done over thousands of years.

John 3...This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, His one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in Him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in Him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust Him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.

Have you done that? Trusted in Christ?

God also speaks through His People one to another in love and He speaks through life circumstances/situations.

God speaks to my schizophrenic brother in law too. As does satan.

He created communication...satan takes advantage of it through being the great deceiver/lier.

Dan you are burying yourself here bro.

Broadway, our resident psychiatrist.

Rather than treating the mentally ill using conventional methods, we should send them to church with Broadway. Nothing baptism and a few round of speaking in tongues won’t solve.

I’m sorry Broadway, but your remark, “He created communication...satan takes advantage of it through being the great deceiver/lier”, sounds like something straight out of the Middle Ages.

I recommend taking Christine Smith's speech with a grain of salt. In the Libertarian Party, there are some ongoing tensions between long-time party members vs. new people (especially former members of either of the two major parties) and between those people who long for utopian society based on strict adherence to libertarian political theory vs. people focused on specific issues.

The feeling that I got after taking in all of the debates and speeches is that this was primarily a pep rally. Although I should have expected this, I was disappointed in that I would have liked to know more about why Barr changed his stance on key issues such as The Patriot Act, drug laws, gay rights, and the War in Iraq. For now, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he uses his candidacy to talk about the problems with the Patriot Act, why the war must end, etc., I think that this would be a big boost for the party.

On the other hand, had Dr. Ruwart gotten in, the message that would have come from her (based on what she said in her radio interview and the debates) would have been something like, "we're radicals, and we can't compromise on that!" In one debate, Ruwart attacked Neal Boortz, author of _The_Fair_Tax_, as not being a real Libertarian because he is advocating replacing the existing taxes with a different tax. In Ruwart's view, real Libertarians are those who call for the abolition of all taxes. Had Ruwart gotten in, I think that the puritans in the party would have been happy, but there would be little hope for the party attracting new members or for it performing better in the ballot box.

Alfredo-

You listed other candidates in an earlier post. Did any them impress you?

The other candidates that I liked, in order of preference, were Dr. Phillies, Steve Kubby, and Mike Gravel.

Phillies was the most articulate of all, and he was very energetic. The only drawback with him was that there was a certain geekiness about him that would not play very well on TV or in a public appearance.

Kubby was a good speaker, although he didn't seem as impressive that weekend as he was the first time that I saw him speak. Kubby's handicap is that people tend to see him as a single-issue candidate (medical marijuana).

Gravel had the advantage of being a recognizable name, and I think that he could connect well with mainstream voters. He has a "grandfatherly" quality about him. However, I am a bit uncertain what ideas he would propose if he were pressed for details. In my opinion, a Gravel candidacy would have had a greater potential of alienating party members than a Barr candidacy.

In the earlier rounds of voting, I supported Jingozian because he has been building a very good working relationship with the Washington County party. I suspected (correctly) that he wouldn't last long in the voting. I then supported Phillies, who was shortly eliminated. At that point in the voting, the likely contenders were Barr, Root, and Dr. Ruwart. I went with Barr. In the Vice-Presidential voting, I supported Kubby for strategic reasons, as did many others (the strategy here was that Kubby's reputation as a medical marijuana activist would balance out against Barr's previous tough-on-drugs voting record).

Thanks Alfredo. I was hoping to hear your opinion on Mike Jingozian whom I know personally.

I think that he is a good man, and I think that the advertising agency that he runs would have been a very valuable asset to himself (if he had won) or any candidate that he chooses to assist. Having heard one of his first campaign speeches over a year ago and comparing that to last weekend, I could tell that he put a lot of hard work into developing his public speaking skills and into fine-tuning his message into something that would resound with the audience.

>>you are burying yourself here bro

Trying to be simple here.
God created humans that communicate right?
The Bible states that satan is the great deceiver. The serpent talked to Eve in the garden...remember the story? People are believing lies, lot of em from that great deceiver everyday thus what is truth? Jesus Christ said He is truth in John 14:6...Jesus said, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one can go to the Father except by Me.

>>we should send them to church with Broadway

The church as been rightly labeled as a "hospital" for healing of the body, mind and spirit but the focus is Jesus Christ whom the Bible states as the Great Physician...He's the healer! He knows us the best because He created us! You are all invited to a Bible believing church this sunday! Dig that!

Dan- It's not the message so much, it's the messenger.

Broadway, if there is even 1% of you that is even hinting that a person who suffers from schizophrenia can be cured by going to church, you're a nut ball. Heavy medication and 24 hour supervision are what's required, not sitting in church praying.

Fact is, it is a tiny minority who is atheist.

You're the one on the fringe.

Spin that.

Herb

I think Broadway is just parenting back what he's heard all his life. Dan truly believes what he is saying I don't question that.

Phrases like "Jesus is the answer" and "the Bible has all the answers" are common place in the types of churches Dan has been attending. These are good people and I know many of them.

But unfortunately it's all words for the most part. But by quoting scripture Dan is getting heaven points which looks good on his spiritual resume. Forget about creating a relationship with a person, all they NEED is Jesus.

Over simplified Christianity in my opinion.

Yeah?

The majority of people are stupid and ignorant too. Go look at our history. It's always been true, always will be.

No Herb, the nut balls are the ones that pray for their kids rather than take them to the hospital for medical care. And the people that give those nut balls a pass are also nut balls.

And by the way, I'd like some clarification from you: Are you saying that people that suffer from schizophrenia can be cured by religion? This is a yes or no answer.

This theological discussion has absolutely NOTHING to do with Bob Barr's Libertarian Presidential bid. It should have its own thread.

>>Forget about creating a relationship with a person, all they NEED is Jesus.

just trying to use this blog thing to spread some "good news". Hey, I'm all for relationship if we could all get together face to face but how when and where? We have a forum here for communication...just taking advantage of it.


>> the nut balls are the ones that pray for their kids rather than take them to the hospital for medical care.

Actually I agree with your statement. Would not call them what you did...just very misguided and very unwise to now miss the joy of raising that child...also very sad. That church needs to be literally torn down and rebuilt without their foolish/deadly doctrine. Children are our future in every way. I am the proud father of 2 20 somethings, my boy and daughter in law making me a very proud grampa recently. Would do anything for my kids/grandkid.

Absolutely true. Guilty as charged.

Sorry Alfredo.

Alfredo- My apologizes as well. I was enjoying your take on Mike Jingozian.

I also know Broadway/Dan personally. I do run in some very eclectic circles.

Fact is, it is a tiny minority who is EXTREME RIGHT Bible Thumper.

You're the one on the fringe.

Spin that.


Trixter

>>You're the one on the fringe

Yes..."fringly" right...but wait...theres more...you may qualify for the title too...but "fringly" left.

My words/life/views based on God's Word...yours based on???

Alfredo-
Mike Jingozian runs his company from a holistic style of management. Very different and non-traditional from other management styles I'm accustomed too. But it's very effective and he has seen his company grow steadily over the years.

When he first announced his run he was a pretty weak public speaker. He would talk on and on and on. However he did hire some people and started video taping his speaking engagements and he did get better.

His attempts early on to use humor in some of his advertising missed the mark with me because I wasn't sure what his points were. Sounds like he worked on that too.

Trixter apparently thinks he's smarter than the Almighty, because his words/life/views are based on the gospel according to Trixter.

Herb

Alfredo / Chris,

Do you have a link to this management history?

Are you asking about the history of the holistic management style?

Actually, both!

Just curious as to how it came about, and his particular success employing it.

Doug-

Check out Mike's web site and maybe you'll find it there.

www.angelvisiontech.com

I haven't found anything about the holistic management style on the Angelvision site yet. However, the "compost" section of the site labels some newspaper articles written about the company as "useless information." I realize that this section is supposed to be a bit sarcastic, but I would have imagined that any entrepreneur would welcome the free publicity of a newspaper article. I was also surprised to see that Jingozian's interest and activism in politics goes back all the way to when he was a high school student.

Alfredo-

Mike is an interesting guy. When I first met him through another work relationship, we sat in our home studio and discussed at length his approach to managing people.

Of course at the time he had very few people to manage and his company was struggling to meet payroll. But that conversation was several years ago and I can't recall anything that jumped out at me.

Maybe it's hard to actually put into words what exactly is a "holistic" approach to managing. Mike is no longer apart of the day-to-day operations of his company. He has some very skilled young people handling those duties.

Mike is now able to peruse his passion of changing the world.

Trixter apparently thinks he's smarter than the Almighty, because his words/life/views are based on the gospel according to Trixter.

Kind of like the bullcrap you spew forth here as well.

Don't be surprised when you're called on stuff that you make up as you go along.

Plonk, indeed.

Herbert Milhous McCain III

You should read your posts more often. Maybe if YOU were called on stuff you make up you'd get PLONKED more often.
We just feel sorry for you instead.....