http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24457199/

The people or person responsible for shooting 6 sea lions who were trapped in a cage should be put in that same cage and shot dead themselves. Anyone who willingly shoots dead an animal that is trapped and unable to defend itself or escape is a coward beyond belief.

>>unable to defend itself or escape is a coward beyond belief.

I see your qoute so close to the innocent unborn!
Human life is snuffed out daily by Planned Parenthood Clinics all over America! Are we upset about that! At least a bullit is more merciful that having your limbs torn from you by an vacuum abortive. Sorry Vitalogy...you pushed a button...I'm asking for mercy for everything living...I've even stopped stepping on bugs except when my wife says to sqwash...

Broadway, go F yourself. Take your abortion talk somewhere else. This situation is NOT comparable to abortion unless one of the sea lions was pregnant.

Life is Life....simple as that. I would appreciate you keeping your profanities to yourself...a real telling of what's inside you.
Vitalogy...you need a God of mercy in your life.

Broadway, so you agree with Vitalogy's first post?

Broadway, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't hijack a thread that has NOTHING to do with abortion. If you want to preach your stupid beliefs, go find a street corner to make a fool of yourself, or better yet, go hand out condoms to teenagers if you're so concerned about abortion.

yes...accept the part about putting the shooter in a cage and shooting him! Are we devaluing the innocent unborn human to lower than animal life?
I go into orbit when I hear the stories on the illegal dog fights and how horrible that is (and yes it is wrong) and yet in our cities there is literal slaughtering of human life called abortion on demand...real "potential" humans that we once were!

Great. Now we know where you stand. Now if you really want to win someone for Christ, back off your Holy Roller shit, you hypocrite.

Vitalogy, I remember seeing a guy in Camo getting interviewed when they were crating the Sea Lions up. Why he was there, I don't know. He didn't seem to have anything to do with the operation. He was just there to watch it. I thought it was odd.

Now this though. A tad extreme. 5 bucks bets that whomever did it is caught.

Pardonnez moi?

"Anyone who willingly shoots dead an animal that is trapped and unable to defend itself or escape is a coward beyond belief."

coward /kow'er:d/ pl. cowards noun. A person who lacks courage. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coward)
Syn. S: Chicken, gutless wonder, scaredy cat, yellowback, yellow-belly.
NS: Crybaby, faint heart, Nervous Nellie, sissy, softie, wimp.
Ant: Hero
(http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wikisaurus:coward)

coward /kow:erd/ n. & adj. -n. A person who is easily frightened or intimidated by danger or pain. -adj. poet. easily frightened. [ME f OF cuard, couard ult. f. L cauda tail]
(Syn.) -n. poultroon, craven, baby, mouse, milksop, archaic scaramouch colloquial sissy, yellowbelly.
("Oxford English Dictionary & Thesaurus American Edition", (ISBN 0-19-509949-4) Oxford University Press Inc, ©1996, p. 325)

Okay, so if the person allegedly shooting the sea lions was allegedly a "coward", as defined above, what was s/he afraid of? That the sea lion would attack them or endanger their life?

How is shooting a caged animal make someone a "coward" given the dictionaries' definitions? This is kind of a stretch I guess, but I could see it if the animal is about to escape from the cage and attack the person or otherwise put him/her in danger, instilling a sense of fear and invoking a "fight or flight" response in the shooter......this apparently was not the case.

Jeez....people do weird things with words..........

Broadway, could you please explain how this even remotely has anything to do with abortion?? I really don't see any valid connection between the two topics.

Vitalogy...you need a God of mercy in your life.

But YOU are NOT the one to preach that to him. If he finds his way it will be on his own!

Broadway, could you please explain how this even remotely has anything to do with abortion?? I really don't see any valid connection between the two topics.

I'll take a stab at that (no reference to OJ Simpson!) and I don't presume to speak for Broadway.

The way I see what he is referring to is not that killing the sea lions has anything to do with abortion.

I think the point he is making is that people are getting all upset that someone shot the sea lions but yet killing of innocent babies happens all the time and there is little to no uproar about that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the moron that shot the sea lions. I think the person that shot the sea lions should spend the rest of his/her life in a cage the size of the one the sea lions were in. Shooting him/her would be too good.

That's my 2 cents worth.

The difference, of course, is that the groups disagree on the definition of "baby".

As far as "innocent" goes, one might argue that the sea lions in a cage are just as innocent and/or helpless as a (post-birth) baby.

They most certainly are.

They only thing they are guilty of is eating salmon, which by the way, I am guilty of too!

Be a hero, save a whale.
Save a baby, go to jail.

Herb

Moto, A courageous person would have found another way to prove his point. A coward shoots them in a cage at night and remains unidentified.

I'm thinking a person veering a thread off topic is to shove an agenda down our throats is a COWARD.

Broadway, start your own abortion thread, otherwise f off with shoving abortion bs down my throat. This is a seal lion thread.

Sorry I started your week off so horrible that you have to curse other boarders...and did such a shame-full thing of "veering a thread off topic"...which never happens on pdxradio!!!

Skybill...your right on...thanks for your million bucks...ah...2 cents for life.

If whomever shot the animals is not a coward, then they should have no problem coming forward and taking the credit for it, eh?

Yeah.

That's what I thought.

shame-full thing of "veering a thread off topic"...which never happens on pdxradio!!!

That's Herbs MO

And caring more for a sealion than an unborn baby is the left's MO.

It is what it is...unless you're Bill Clinton...Then you'll attempt to parse what the word is, is.

Herb

Tell you what, when a baby eats salmon out of the river and gets shot in a cage, then we'll talk. Until then, bringing THIS back to abortion isn't exactly a convincing argument.

I cannot STAND the mind-set that can't deal with it's own example and has to try and tie things back just to further an opinion. That kind of stuff is dangerous - you'll push more people AWAY from God and Abortion with Broadway's and Herb's style. It's not like someone is going to read what you have to post and go " Oh. Well that's a convincing stance. Maybe I'll reconsider my own opinion." It has the opposite effect. It's ineffective, loutish, boorish and makes you look really stupid.

Both of your sisters are ugly.

"you'll push more people AWAY from God and Abortion with Broadway's and Herb's style."

Exactly!

I just can't get over how liberals have to demean others and their families that have contrary views...stuping pretty low among these sharing of ideas. Talk about not adding to the debate and "makes you look really stupid."

I and a few others on this board are very content with knowing the truth, life, and the one true and living God, Jesus Christ.

Right. And you know what? I agree with you. But you still look stupid when you compare abortion to killing a Sea Lion.

What is it that you want, exactly? What do you hope bringing abortion into THIS conversation will do on ANY level? Really. Specifically. Name it. Say it out loud instead of some loosely posted thread that you cling to. It's not a rhetorical question. I'd like and answer to that.

You want to have a discussion about abortion? Start a thread about it. I did. Post in there.

You see, I believe you are a hypocrite, Broadway. That bothers me. Now, I am too. But not because of things I try to ram down people's throat that I myself believe, but cannot admit that I fall short on or about. I've got a million reasons why I feel I am a hypocrite. But I TRY not to flaunt it and then excuse it by saying " You need Jesus."

You want to have a theological discussion? Let's! But show some ability to have a conversation first.

>>What do you hope bringing abortion into THIS conversation will do on ANY level? Really. Specifically. Name it.

Thanks to Skybill..."I think the point he is making is that people are getting all upset that someone shot the sea lions but yet killing of innocent babies happens all the time and there is little to no uproar about that."

These threads have always been a "moving breathing changing" concept...sharing of ideas to which I log into this side of pdxradio once in a while to chime in if my dander gets motivated then I leave for a while cause of the caustic spirit and there is more to life.
Blessings...

Okay I'm trying to put the sea lion/abortion connection together.

................................Still trying............................trying...........

..........hmmmmm...........uh............blank stare..............

"I think the point he is making is that people are getting all upset that someone shot the sea lions but yet killing of innocent babies happens all the time and there is little to no uproar about that."

Really. First of all, that is simply not true. Do I need to really paste links to show the uproar about abortion? Heck, I could start with about 50 from this message board alone.

Secondly, to use this thread to talk about abortion is just as pertinent as bringing up abortion in my " STEAKS " thread.

" These threads have always been a "moving breathing changing" concept."

Now THAT is true. But it has been being breathing towards Abortion and Nixon for so long already. I just get tired of it. OVER and OVER and OVER. The smjallest amount of similar vocabulary ( death ) and then it all becomes about abortion. Pretty soon I'm just going to become completely deaf to it. Is that what you want? Because that's where it's headed. And I do not believe that I am alone.

Show SOME restraint. You may actually gain a little value when you DO decide to bring it up.

The lofty rhetoric about the unborn merits attention, but why then does the pro-life movement go to such great pains to ignore children living among us in need today? The hypocrisy of the pro-life movement calls into question deep ethical questions about the moral relativism of their stated position. Shouldn’t all of God’s children be treated with equal care?

I find displeasure with both sides in the abortion debate, but I’m particularly sickened by the pro-life community’s unwillingness to take their fight to the next level and seek compassionate relief for children of all creeds and colors. Quite simply, I find that they lack moral credibility. Children are suffering and they seem to care little about those who live on the margins.

I think they lack moral credibility as well. And someone who lacks moral credibility has no bidness telling me what to do. Besides, had it been a living baby playing on a jungle jim in a park who got shot, I'd be even more disgusted than than the sea lion shootings. However, when it comes to the government mandating that women who become pregnant must deliver their baby, that disgusts me the most. Using the term "killing unborn babies" is just a ridiculous statement. It's an embryo that is not viable without the host body's support, and I side with the rights of the host body, not a government or some crazy bible thumper who believes in talking snakes and imaginary people with magic powers!

What's wrong with shooting sea lions? These guys broke the law, and should be dealt with accordingly. But their actions are not that far out there. Shooting sea loins who threaten salmon runs is a common practice, although it's being held up in the courts right now.

News flash for you, Sea Lions were eating salmon long before we were.

the only difference is that they eat them to survive while we sell them at expensive restraunts.

" What's wrong with shooting sea lions? "

Super. Why don't you ask the whomever shot them? If there is nothing wrong with it, then they should come forward and celebrate it. Oh, that's right. There IS something wrong with what they did.

" These guys broke the law, and should be dealt with accordingly."

You answered your own question...but I helped.

I won't hide behind that it's a legal infraction. Heck, I don't even know what the motive was. Maybe it was a love triangle. OH NO! THE SLIPPERY SLOPE HAS BEGUN!

Release The Kraken! ( dot com, btw )

Broadway sez, "I go into orbit..."

Keep going.

Forget orbit. Head towards deep space.

Its pretty amazing the blindness of some of the readers regarding my point...ok...again

sea lions killed...one time incident...outrage from public and members of this board...ok

innocent unborn "potental" persons killed daily at the LoveJoy clinic in Portland...wheres the demonstrations...where's the massive outcry of loss of life anywhere in this city? EVERYDAY life is taken in this city alone!

hijack of this board/topic...guilty...

2 simple answers to abortion...adoption and marriage...more to that later...

Take it somewhere else. Another thread, or better yet, another website. Or get off your computer and head to Lovejoy. The lone guy out front could use your help. Unless that's you.

Your tactics have lost me and turned me off. Just like Herb who goes way before you.

Again, like Herb, no matter how hard you wish, you don't, and won't ever have, a uterus.

Maybe Herb shot the sea lions. Sounds like his MO.

"Maybe Herb shot the sea lions. Sounds like his MO."

Why do you think that?

Broadway-

If you're outraged by abortion, then you should be equally outraged by the 30,000 children that will die today from preventable starvation.

You should be equally outraged by the sex trafficking that puts young women, girls really, in dangerous and deadly circumstances.

If abortion makes your blood boil so should the fact that over 4000 women will die this year from physical abuse from their husbands, boyfriends or domestic partners.

You should also put your anger toward the adults who physically and sexually abuse children daily in our country.

And what about the working poor?

Adoption is certainly a good alternative. However those agencies are losing more funding each year due to the war and other Bush policies.

With marriage at a 50 percent divorce rate in America that is not a viable alternative for many.

These are the living!!

I don't like abortion as an option. I also feel its woman's choice...not mine. Like Mrs. Merkin alluded too, I was born with a different set of plumbing. But it seems white, middle aged men with authority want to control woman and not take the responsibility.

You want to stop abortion? Stop the pregnancies.

"Okay I'm trying to put the sea lion/abortion connection together."

It's not difficult.

The left cares more for a [any animal here] than an unborn child.

Dogs have more rights than a baby in the womb. PETA and their liberal pals pour blood on themselves because they don't like fur, with nary a peep about pre-born infants.

Sure it's an act of cowardice to slaughter sealions. But in their zeal to protect animals, the left's self-imposed blindness causes them to avert their gaze from the slaughter of little kids.

And Chris, by admonishing pro-lifers for not doing it all, remember some are the hands, some are the feet. We are all the body.

The connection's clear: Some humans are more equal than others. I thought that went out with slavery, when an African-American life was worth a fraction of a white person. Talk about leftist Orwellianism.

Herb

Chris,
you know I am outraged by all the human devastation you mentioned.

>>You want to stop abortion? Stop the pregnancies

http://www.stopthink.net/approach.html

these guys are trying...as for adoptions...just google "christian adoption agencies" and you'll get over 250K hits...adoption is still viable.

>>These are the living!!

come on...you know your were once an unborn child and a very innocent potential radio guy that was and is very living!

My whole point here is that there is a "Holocaust" right here in our own cities/country of hundreds of thousands...the most innocent among us...lets not forget.

I do admit that society needs to change it's attitude regarding their personal sexual activity...having sex demands responsibility and it truly is ment for marriage but we are sadly living in a very promiscuous era most of which is fueled by pornography which was sadly/wrongly condoned by the first ammendment.
(Founding fathers rolling in their graves)

"we are sadly living in a very promiscuous era most of which is fueled by pornography"

Uh Dan you've forgotten some of the stories in the bible? There are some x-rated passages about who is entering into whom. The language has been softened over the centuries to make it easier to read. It's not fueled by pornography; sex is used to control people and is used as a means of power.

Being promiscuous has been with us since man met woman.

Herb writes:” The left cares more for a [any animal here] than an unborn child. "

Boy Herb can you bring the BS!! You truly enjoy building walls and creating division. It think it's your specialty. By doing so you seem to attempt to put yourself and your value system above the rest. God how I disdain your egocentric tactics.

Check out this episode of one of my favorite podcasts;

Radio Lab from WNYC.

Detective Stories
Show #201
Sunday, July 29, 2007

"Forensics, archeology, genealogy, and genetics are devoted to figuring out what really happened. In this hour, we hear surprising stories of playing detective and finding that what really happened in the past is not at all what you’d expected. We start at a trash dump in Egypt, where we find Jesus, Satan, sissies, and porn."

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/07/29

"But in their zeal to protect animals, the left's self-imposed blindness causes them to avert their gaze from the slaughter of little kids."

Embyros are not "little kids", just like a foundation is not a house, a sappling is not an old growth tree, and wort is not beer.

And if we're going to bring up slavery, it's a form of slavery to force women to give birth when they don't want to.

Face it: So-called pro-lifers, who really aren't pro-life at all, are only concerned about controlling people's behaviors. They don't give a DAMN about "little kids" as they turn a blind eye when it comes to supporting the "little kids" once they are here on earth and viable.

And, last night on the news, they interviewed several fisherman who said they were glad someone shot those sea lions. I'll bet the sick bastard who did this consider's himself "pro-life" as well.

Nice link!

Oh man, I read this stuff with morbid interest.

"It's a holocaust right here, right now on the unborn!"

Ooohh! Scare me more, so the popcorn tastes better.

Truth is, I'm struggling. Lots of people are struggling, and struggling big. It might sting, but the truth is actual people, viable people are worth more than proto-people.

And that makes this issue not the most important thing we have to deal with right now.

This is why nobody really pushing hard on the pro-life issue wants to talk about EDUCATION, EMPOWERMENT and ALTERNATIVES COMBINED.

If we actually did those things, and most of the heavy hitters have been aired right here, this problem would end up being MINOR LEAGUE, and that's why we hear this ENDLESS, divisive crap, day in and day out.

With me guys, the mind share is gone. It's an important issue for sure. Don't get me wrong on that. It matters.

But, how much can it really matter when most of the effort is spent on trying to make it all way harder and more horrible than it needs to be at our current level of technology understanding today?

That's a lie. It smells bad, like a cheap sell smells bad and that dog just doesn't hunt anymore.

Really think it's a holocaust? Really think it's so damn important that we've got to let the world burn until it's fixed your way?

Great, come meet me down the hall where we can cut it to a small FRACTION in FIVE to TEN years.

Until then, it's not that important. Think about that, hard.

Every time you do this blatent digression, you underscore just how unimportant it is, because if it actually REALLY mattered, then there would be SIGNIFICANT motivation to actually work on it right now in ways that actually will have an impact.

I care about this. I care deeply. I know it can be fixed solid, damn quick, with few hassles.

The fact that you pro-life alphas won't step in and help get it done, just chaps my ass like a used car salesman chaps it when pulling the slimy quick sell to make his month.

Now, back to health care, energy, foreign policy, food, disease, economy, civil liberties and other things that are hammering me RIGHT NOW TODAY.

That's where my mind share is, and it's this divisive stuff, mostly from Republicans, that got it there. Now deal knowing a growing majority of Americans feel exactly the same way I do about this and every other lame ass, divisive issue we've been tortured with over the last 7 years.

God, Gays, Flags, Fags, Guns, Girls, Porn, Creation, etc....

Fuck all of it. Call the whole ball of wax personal choice and responsibility and let's get our house in order so we have the luxury of actually debating and working through those things.

"Some humans are more equal than others."

Absolutely!

This is news?

We go from potential / proto people, a few cells and possibilities to viable unborn, to newborn, to kids, young adults, adults, mid adults, late adults, old, older, elderly, dead.

There are a ton of scenarios where some combination of those is worth more. Comes up all the time and we all make choices all the time.


Remember the petri dish bit Broadway? (Sorry, I addressed my post wrong!)

For the kids at home, let's review ok?

You are in a room in a burning building about to collapse, killing everything inside. You have time for one and only one action. On one side of the room is a petri dish with 20 blastocysts, and on the other sits a 2-3 year old girl.

Which do you save?

Everybody I know grabs the young girl, leaving the cells to burn.

If you are a real, staunch, go the distance, nothing else matters, pro-lifer, then you have to go for the dish because saving 20 lives is better than just saving one life only.

Boy, some sad things being said here...

I'm so glad I know a God of mercy, compassion, love and grace to me even when I was first concieved. He has always considered me and all of you a person that He gave His only Son for to die on a cross for our sin so that we could have eternity in heaven.

Bottom line...I'm just encouraging righteousness...right-choices...abortion is a heart issue...the decision comes from the heart from unplanned pregnancy to having the abortion...all a matter of the heart...from the inside...and thats where the change needs to happen.

And caring more for a sealion than an unborn baby is the left's MO.

YOU caring more for unborn life than women and children who are living now is the EXTREME RIGHTs MO.
As soon as a human is born the EXTREME RIGHT could give two shits about life.

" And caring more for a sealion than an unborn baby is the left's MO."

I can't do both?

I can't do both?

CJ..
They can't so why should you???

Broadway/Dan-

Let's make this a bit more personal. I think Missing is on the right track.

Dan lets say you get the 35-year old church secretary pregnant. Never mind the reasons why at this time, just go with me on this.

First off you have to do some explaining to your current wife and kids what happened. So not only are you dealing with a pregnancy but with marital issues.

You and the secretary, while in counseling start talking the best course of action based on the situation. As it turns out this 35 year old secretary is a single mother of 3 kids all 10 yrs and younger. She makes ends meet by catering on the weekends. Her days are long and the money is short and adding another mouth to feed is beyond her means.

In your discussions you ask that she bring the baby to term and put it up for adoption. She thinks it over and comes back to you stating that doing so would mean doctor visits, time away from work and kids and eventually a financial strain. Abortion this early in the pregnancy seems a viable choice.

Dan, this is where you pick up the story. What now becomes your course of action?

I proposed this kind of scenario to Herb and to his credit he answered honestly.

It's your turn now.

Actions have consequences...you reap what you sow...why is the innocent unborn to blame for anything? Do you kill all your "inconveniences" in life? Back to your scenario, the inconvenience of the doctor bills,etc...I would get a 2 job for a while and support my responsibility. Oh yes it's easier and less embarrassing to abort but 2 wrongs don't make it right.
EVERYONE DESERVES A BIRTHDAY!

>>Some humans are more equal than others

The phrase lacks credibility... as it is first of all grammatically incorrect. One can not qualify equal. It either is or isn't. There's no degree of such. Also, it has been decided by the Supreme Court that all are equal. No more considering others as 3/5th human. So, it's not only illogical, it's not a legal theorum and it is mutually exclusive.

Why is it that Ronald Reagan, the foremost pro-life president in the history of our republic, went to the mat for the unborn but when it came to the treatment of black South Africans, he felt their treatment by Afrikaners didn’t warrant condemnation codified by legislative edict. Life everywhere should be treated with equal regard. But here again, the pro-life lobby ignores the living and wraps itself in a cloque of faux morality. The double standard speaks volumes about a movement which lacks any degree of moral consistency.

And to the issue of some humans being more equal than others, again, the pro-life lobby talks a big game but falls seriously short as a respecter of human life outside the womb. They ridicule efforts to support the most vulnerable among us, taking on a survival of the fittest mantra best identified with Charles Darwin. Over and over, the conservative Christian pro-life movement shots itself in the foot by aligning itself with radical terrorists with a single minded obsession that fails to address the neediest among us. Again, their approach is more akin to Charles Darwin than Jesus Christ. The pro-life movement, like the Emperor, has no clothes.

Dan I think it's great you would take some responsibility on your end but the fact remains; the decision is ultimately the woman's no matter how good your intentions. Which was Herb's answer, albeit it was with reservation.

It was a rather unfair hypothesis I subjected you too but not unrealistic. What seems to be a clear-cut solution in your mind isn't always so clear. You have rather pat answers that for me show a lack of compassion for the woman who has to make this decision.

I have known a handful of women who have had abortions. One of those women used to cut my hair for 16 years. Each handled their situation the best way they could considering their circumstances. Each has looked back with different perspectives on that decision.

I can applaud your staunch position however what you and Herb lack in my opinion is true compassion, something my Lord and Savior would give unconditionally.

Oh and Talpdx…..that was a slam dunk post!

Obviously your circle/loop of information is different than mine. The Christian community that I and many are a part of is very humanitarian..pre and post fetus. I have been part of a group that feeds/resources twice weekly the homeless in my town for many years now and I also hang with at risk teens/20 somethings weekly to try to speak wisdom into their lives. Again...Christians are not perfect...just forgiven...we should live Christ-like. That's what Christian means.

I don't think there are any radical terrorist in my town to align myself to. If I did I would invite him/her to grab the soup and help serve!

The christian community you are a part of is a sect. You're not all that different from the sect on Texas, just breaking a few less laws I hope. But, you are identical in the brainwashing that's occured for you to arrive at your viewpoint.

"You have rather pat answers that for me show a lack of compassion for the woman who has to make this decision."

Exactly. Could not have said it better myslef. Those with narrow minds can't think broadly.

Dan-

In no way was I demeaning your stance on the volunteer work you perform. It's admirable and actually a mandate in many ways because of our faith.

I was keeping with the abortion issue only. Since you were the one who brought up this issue please try and stay on task or at least on topic (even in it's current hijacked state).

You've come into this thread with guns a blazin' and really ticked off a lot of folks including myself. But I'm sure you don't really care because it was a pretty safe place to do so. You would have gained a whole lot more respect had you started your own thread and used it as your own personal statement about this thread. We do that all the time in here.

I try and live as Christ-like as I can. Looks like that is being manifested differently in you and me.

I realize that Christians feel they are forgiven once accepting Christ into their heart. I have no issue with your belief, in fact I applaud it. But being forgiven doesn’t give a person the right to behave like a cad. It speaks to an arrogant faith which calls its followers not to carry out acts of Godly compassion but rather swearing a loyalty oath. You are then allowed to behave as abhorrently as you wish, only then to die and reap untold rewards.

I take serious issues with the right wing Christian ideologues who preach the virtues of wealth and feel good theology while seeming to ignore the reality of Christ’s life on earth. These hypocrites seek to exclude rather than include; whether it is the Reverend Phelps and his hate filled conservative Christian philosophy or the villainous Dr. James Dobson, whose love of money and political prestige reeks of a latter day Pontius Pilate.

Folks, Jesus is about love. Where in the world did He discriminate? And to say that non-Christians will not enter the Kingdom of God has to be the biggest failing of the born again, right wing Christian philosophy. If God is about love and compassion, why would He banish the unbaptized to an afterlife not on par with the baptized? Why would He send His only son to die for our sins but exclude those ignorant of His word to an afterlife in heaven? It’s elitist and is completely contradictory to the life of Christ. Anyway, the ritual of baptism follows the terms of a document written and rewritten that its true contents are conjecture at best. In any event, it simply does not make any sense, and no verse in the Bible will convince me otherwise.

Many Christians like to cherry-pick which tenants of the Christian faith to which they will adhere. Again, it’s completely hypocritical. Christ did not surround himself with the establishment elite, but the disenfranchised. He spoke a message of love and tolerance, yet if you listen to most right wing Christian ideologues, you hear little love or compassion in their message but choruses of vengeance and hatred. Intolerance and fear is the hallmark of many of these individuals – all contrary to Jesus Christ’s life on earth.

I seriously believe that if Christ returned to earth today, He would be dismayed by what has been rendered in His name. From wars to for profit hospitals acting at the behest of Christian charities, it’s completely contrary to the word of God. I mean did Jesus ask the blind folks whose sight he restored if they had health insurance?

"I seriously believe that if Christ returned to earth today, He would be dismayed by what has been rendered in His name. From wars to for profit hospitals acting at the behest of Christian charities, it’s completely contrary to the word of God."

To take this point further, I wonder what kind of a God he is by letting this stuff go on. Most certainly not any kind of God I'd be interested in worshipping.

The way God's children behave TURNS ME OFF!

Broadway sez: >>Some humans are more equal than others

The phrase lacks credibility... [snip] So, it's not only illogical, it's not a legal theorum and it is mutually exclusive.

Taken literally, agreed!

However, the greater figurative point is easily seen and discussed, and that is the proper context for my posts.

That context is simply that we have no consensus on when we are talking about a person as opposed to a potential person.

Some of us believe it all starts right at the beginning. Others don't. The only thing we do know is that somewhere in there we have a person and somewhere in there it becomes a viable person.

Technology actually has pushed viability back considerably. That same technology also has significantly improved our ability to control conception, along with our ability to see a person earlier.

So, with ongoing debate and discovery, we end up with both greater understanding and control.

Now we get to: "you reap what you sow"

Ahh... Classic teaching people a lesson crap.

Here's my beef with all of that.

We do, in fact, quite often reap what we sow. You won't hear me talking down that chestnut. However, it must be considered in the full context, not just cherry picked for emotional impact --as in "the change comes from within".

Translated, that means if we can be made to feel bad enough about something then we would consider not doing that thing.

Mostly this just works for stupid and highly impressionable people. Just a note there for consideration. Consider it a KSKD FYI.

Now, let's look at that greater context!

Most all pro-lifers I know are fully supporting ANYBODY that even hints at a chance to overturn Roe V Wade. They want the idea that choice is not ok, not to be accepted and with that idea comes a lot of crap. It does not appear to matter how much of a nut-bag these Roe V Wade killers are. They can be completely full dominionist nut-bag alphas from hell. No problem, so long as they are willing to step up and get at that decision.

Some of that crap, that comes along for the ride is:

-sex is for marriage

-contraception is simple enablement for sinful behavior ie: sex outside of marriage

there are lots of others, but that's enough for now.

A contrasting view might be that contraception is empowerment for women, and men now it seems, in that they can exercise greater control over their reproduction and thus make sex choices on their own terms.

And that goes on and on too. Some see sex as dirty, sinful, pleasurable, natural, whatever. This is a personal choice, period. Where one stands is just where one stands. (I personally favor sex before marriage because there is absolutely no reason to marry somebody for life, if it does not fit! Sorry, that's human and I'm quite human!)

Getting back to my primary point then, I find it completely indefensible to support people, who would let the world burn (American citizens being exploited, war, famine, disease, hunger, you name it), just so they get a shot at limiting choice, (in the land of the free no less!) just so they feel better about lording it over other peoples life choices!

That's the reap part. Here comes the sow!

Having engaged in this, and that's the current state of the 23 percent Republican base, there is some push back. That's my post and all the anger and frustration in it!

Having talked this out here and elsewhere, I have found NOBODY is PRO ABORTION. We all think it's horrible. Men and Women equally feel a distinct unease when talking about it.

In that, there is a very strong incentive then to not do it, BUT...

There are times when it is a valid choice! This is not to be denied. Take my two favorites, Rape and Incest! Both of these result in a woman suffering through no action of her own that she should be accountable for.

Better, no action that she could possess the understanding required to act and thus be accountable for.

To deny her the control in this scenario is essentially giving her animal like, "hey, it's just gonna happen" kind of options. Which is NO option.

Again, technology has brought us both understanding and control. So that woman KNOWS there are options and needs to choose. Denial of this to her is an insult and devalues her person hood to the lowest degree.

Not cool. I know I've one hell of a lot more self-respect than to engage in willful-ignorance about how the world works. I'm inclined to show the women in the world the same thing in like kind! No daughter of mine will grow up thinking she is powerless, when she is in fact not powerless. That's just cruel. Think about that.

That contradiction wears thin. All the shouting and endless mentioning of this issue, in even the remotest contexts, is sowing some very bad fruits.

A growing majority of Americans now understand what the cost of that is and are no longer willing to pay.

You can extend that same reap - sow equation to religion and your God of choice as well. Throw God in the face too often and you marginalize God.

Happens just like that. Same for abortion and many other issues as well.

Suddenly, you are out of the game. Marginalized, ignored and actually creating a strong motivation for those so impacted to work against your cause!

Ever wonder why there are so many ACLU -vs- Religious nut-bag cases going on! That's it right there. Reap - sow. Nice and simple, mister Pimple!

That's a net loss for everybody involved, which is where we are right now.

Again, I know absolutely if we worked hard at education (and that's all education, not just some cherry picked stuff), empowerment (contraception, consuling, self-help, support groups, etc...), and alternatives (adoption, assistance, etc...), we would bring the number of abortions down to very near the number that REFLECT ACTUAL VIABLE DEFENSIBLE CHOICES to a majority of people.

From there, we continue to explore understanding and our technology and improve at a rate that is related directly to how hard we work on it.

That's fact man. Absolutely will work, could happen, needs to happen.

It isn't happening because a significant fraction of us is stuck in all or nothing, power of god, we are sinners, dirty, whatever your brand of willful ignorance happens to be.

That's going to end. It's going to end in that the majority of us, being rational people, are going to tune out and stay tuned out for a VERY LONG TIME.

We know better. We know the actual size of the problem today, we know why (and this is a BIG PART OF WHY), and we know what the actual size of the problem could be, IF WE COULD JUST GET OVER OUR CONTROL ISSUES.

So, I'm here, right down the hall, solutions in hand, willing to go to the mat for them, wanting the world to be a better place, the whole deal.

Door is open, high ground taken, up to you all or nothing types to step up and get to work.

That's what you've sowed.

Continue this crap and be marginalized. That's spoiling the very idea of God, one pissed off rational "heard enough" person at a time.

Come back down to reality, where we actually live and breathe, and you will find everyone you meet, willing and able to share both your God and your conviction about this matter and your desire to address it.

There will ABSOLUTELY never be a binary, pass a law, fix. Won't happen. There will only be progress toward that goal.

Work together and it's quick and effective progress.

Fail to do that, and it's slow and bloody. (literally and figuratively)

Reap what you sow indeed.

"Folks, Jesus is about love."

Yep.

Between you, Talpdx and Chris, I remain optimistic that religion will see better days than it does right now.

Frankly, the all or nothing fire and brimstone crowd scare the crap out of me. You guys remind me that we can be good people, have our faith, share it, grow from it, be better for it.

Thanks!

Edit: To underscore the post above, I really am not particularly religious right now. Frankly, I can't stomach the idea that I might be linked to this kind of willful ignorance. Sorry.

>>however what you and Herb lack in my opinion is true compassion

Chris...if you can't see that what I am declaring here is that there needs to be "true compassion" for the millions of unborn...again...you and I was once there...then you might need to do more research...most of abortions are on demand...used as birth control for unwanted/unplanned pregnancies...rape, incest and health of the mother abortions are about 3-5% if that. Snuffing out "proto people" to rid of their "mistakes"...which it's not...it's a person as Dr. Laura always says.
The reason many of you are getting all hype up about this issue is because the truth might be ringing out. Chris...I just don't think there is anything compassionate about the horrible act of an abortion to which I think I don't have to describe or show pictures of.

Answer this: Is the unborn fetus a real person?
A simple yes or no will do.

"Answer this: Is the unborn fetus a real person?"

Answer me this: Is the woman a real person or not who is trying to decide on an abortion or not?

In all your posts NOT ONCE have you shown me compassion for the woman having to make the choice. You've made it for her and it may not be the right choice for her situation. This is where I believe Jesus stands in the gap. His compassion would be to comfort her no matter her choice. This is where my right leaning brothers and sisters lose me.

Dan believe me I know where you're coming from and I truly believe you feel you're right. But with you putting credence in the wisdom of a Dr. Laura, sorry she does nothing for me.

I will not answer you with a simple yes or no because the question is not as simple as you think it is. When you have your sex change operation and can finally see things from a women's perspective then maybe I'll answer your question.

"I wonder what kind of a God he is by letting this stuff go on. Most certainly not any kind of God I'd be interested in worshipping. "

Skep thanks for continuing to keep me honest on those who are where you're at. There are some very good people within the Christian circles I run with. Some deeply compassionate people, including pastors, who accept people where they are at and not where they want them to be.

It's those people who shine the light Christ in my own life and are just down to earth quality people. They keep things real.

It's sad that there are those within Christianity who disgust you. They disgust me too.

You have been very kind to me over the years and for that I am thankful. I hope I have given you the same amount of respect.

It's sad that there are those within Christianity who disgust you. They disgust me too.

The MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY GANG is downRIGHT disgusting the way they RAM their message down everyone's throat. Jesus NEVER did this!!!!!

Again, "Doctor" Laura is NOT a doctor.

She is a vile, cruel, rude, hateful woman and thankfully NOT a representative of the majority of the female population. I feel sorry for the people who agree with her or worse, take her advice in one of her 2 minute one-sided rants. She belongs in Hell with (M)Ann Coulter. Icky!

"Doctor" Laura is NOT a doctor.."

EDUCATION

BS, Biological Sciences, SUNY Stonybrook, Long Island, NY

MS, M Phil, Ph.D. (Physiology), Columbia University (College of Physicians and Surgeons), NY

Post-Doctoral Certification in Marriage, Family and Child Counseling, Human Relations Center, University of Southern California, Los Angeles

Licensed Marriage, Family and Child Counselor (MFCC), California, formerly in private practice for 12 years

Past member of the Biological Sciences faculty of the University of Southern California (five years) and the graduate Psychology faculty of Pepperdine University (eight years)

UCLA and UC Irvine Extension course instructor

http://www.drlaura.com/about/

"She belongs in Hell..."

How judgmental and intolerant.

Herb

"How judgmental and intolerant."

LOL.. from Herb!!
ROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOLROFLOL!!

>>NOT a representative of the majority of the female population

how do you explain she's on the number one station in town now?

Thems fighting word's Herbert.

Look.

People of faith are routinely called judgmental and intolerant on this board.

It's intellectually dishonest for secularists to give a pass to those deeming others worthy of hell.

Herbert M. The 'K'

Let me re-phrase:

She is NOT a Doctor of Psychology.
She IS a Doctor of Physiology.
Granted, she was an Extension Course Instructor; now there's an esteemed accomplishment!




Re: "Judgemental and Intolerant"

Oh puhlease, YOU are the *undisputed* title-holder in that department here, Pa Kettle.

Herbbocrite:

Now who's being "judgmental and intolerant"?

How dare you insinuate that I am anywhere near being secular or a "secularist". I'm sure even God is gagging on that one right now.

I'd love to see the look on your face if you actually end up "downstairs" too.

Well, Hell is were most Hypocrites wind up! Hypocrisy, the Devils bedfellow!

Secularist: "The view that public education and other matters of civil policy should be conducted without the introduction of a religious element."

Since you're not a secularist, I'm glad to hear you're for vouchers!

Herb

I'm a secularist.
And PROUD to be so.

If you want religion in government and school, move to Iran or some other 3rd world country.

Or just join the US Military. Religion is everywhere in the military.
Just watched a show on OPB called carrier and was surprised to see it as much as I did.
Good for them. Serving God and Country!

sec·u·lar·ism (sky-l-rzm)
n.
1. Religious skepticism or indifference.
2. The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education.

secu·lar·ist n.
secu·lar·istic adj.

Me:
1. Not guilty of indifference. Skepticism, meaning questioning is a healthy part of religion and is not a bad thing.
2. Guilty

WTF? What does this have to do with vouchers? I have a 2-year old. Vouchers are not on my radar yet.

Vouchers nothing more than a trojan horse for religious education on the public dime.

Yep.

Won't have it. We pay tax dollars for core education that is as fact based as we are capable of.

Opinion is on our own dime.

With regard to Dr. Laura, Josef Mengele was a doctor too. Maybe they'll spend the afterlife doing a radio show together.

Hey Herb,

Since you don't have a problem with religion being involved in Government, are you equally OK with Government being involved in religion?

"What does this have to do with vouchers?"

Please read your own post:

"The view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or PUBLIC EDUCATION."

Herbomatic

"...are you equally OK with Government being involved in religion?"

Government is mandated to protect our freedom of worship. And in spite of what leftists want, that's a good thing.

Herb

Herb
I see your words but when I read them all I get is Wah, wah, wah, wah...wah, wah, wah!

Here's the deal..

If You are going to allow religion to take an active part in Government, unless Government takes an active role in regulating religion, you're going to have to accomodate Government involvement by everything from the Church of Satan to the 24 Hour Church of Elvis.

Are you OK with the Government deciding what qualifies as a legitimate religion?

Why don't we get this thread back on track.

The sea lions might have wounded each other. They aren't sure still either way.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90GVPN00&show_article=1

"Are you OK with the Government deciding what qualifies as a legitimate religion?"

It already does. The US military has recognised freedom of worship for wiccans.

This is where a vet's input could help shine light on the issue.

Nwokie, come home. We miss you. Even the left misses you...if they had the heart to admit it.
I guess the libs have spent too much time defending black-hearts like their buddy, fidel castro.

Chime in anytime, Nwokie. I've got your back.

Herb

More details...

Six Sea Lions Found Dead Weren’t Shot

POSTED: 11:22 am PDT May 7, 2008
UPDATED: 12:27 pm PDT May 7, 2008


PORTLAND, Ore. -- NOAA's Fisheries Service said that the cause of death of six sea lions found on two traps at Bonneville Dam Sunday remains unknown, they were not gunshot wounds as originally reported.

The necropsies did identify numerous shallow puncture wounds in one animal that are consistent with sea lion bite marks, according to NOAA. An investigation is ongoing by the agency to determine how the animals officially died.

The carcasses of two California sea lions and one Steller sea lion were each contained in two closed traps, said Rick Hargrave, a spokesman for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife.

NOAA is investigating how the doors to the traps could have been closed because in the trapping operations, the traps are left open so the sea lions get used to them. When wildlife agents are ready to remove the sea lions, they close the traps.

Seven California sea lions were trapped on the Columbia starting April 24 after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals approved their capture. One died during a medical inspection before transfer to a Sea World park.

Anyone with information that may assist in this investigation is asked to call the NOAA Enforcement Hotline at 1-800-853-1964.
Copyright 2008 by KIROTV.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved.

George W. Bush and his Faith Based Initiative Program is an example of the incumbent president trying to placate his religious right friends by offering them government handouts with little oversight. It has little to do with providing help to those in need but rather paying off right wing Christian bigots like diamond merchant, preacher/television personality Pat Robertson as well as others of his ilk.

I’m sure that if you were to some investigating, you’d find most of the money funneled through this program has done little to help the poor, but instead further enrich those in the religious right community.

No Herb, I do not want ANY religion allowed in public schools. If I PAY or get a scholarship for Baby M to go to a private religious school, that's a different matter.

And no vouchers, which again, I did not mention, you did. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you DO read your own crap, as has been asked here by others. Maybe you need a hand mirror to read and examine it as you pull this stuff out of your butt.

Unlike leftists here using scare America talking points, I not only read what I write, but also write what I write.

Herb

P.S. Given the debacles in Florida and Michigan, democrats can't even run their own primary, much less a country.

Even with seating the Democratic delegates in Michigan and Florida in question, the simple fact remains that the John McCain the worst Republican candidate for president since Barry Goldwater. I honor John McCain’s service to this country, but he is unfit to be president. And with George W. Bush being the most despised man in America, there is little chance a Republican will win the White House in November. 7 years of high crimes and misdemeanors by the Republican cabal will end January 20, 2009. At long last, these years of tyrannical rule by the merchant of death and deceit will FINALLY be over.

The Democratic primary is being run just fine. We are seeing who is the better candidate AND continuing to add new Democratic voters to the rolls.

Better pay attention to Newt, he knows what's coming.

Seeing how the left deals with Florida and Michigan will disgust half of the left, ensuring they'll stay home.

McCain-Huckabee '08.

We'll have the supreme court packed for decades.

Roe v. Wade will go the way of segregation [where democrats opposed the Civil Rights Act] and partial birth abortion [which true radicals like Mrs. Clinton voted to uphold that barbaric practice].

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?con gress=108&session=1&vote=00051

A dark period in the history of the Democratic Party. But it took the courage of a Democratic president to move the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act through the legislative process and into law.

After the passage of the Civil Rights Act, many of the old school southern Democrats abandoned the Democratic Party and became Republicans as part of Nixon's southern strategy -- ala Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott among others.

IMPEACH NIXON NOW!

Can we get back to the sea lions now? While 100% guilty, I'm so sick of these threadjacks that go to Abortion, Nixon, Clinton I.

I don't agree with what has happened, but as a Salmon fisherman, I have to admit the thought of killing them as certainly come to mind. Especially after seeing many a nice Salmon get chomped just short of getting them in peoples boats! Saw one guy once try to bash one over the head with a boat oar, he was smashed of course and almost fell in, but it was comical!

Back on topic . . .

Asa it turns out, the sea lions may have not been shot after all.

Stay tuned.

>>NOT ONCE have you shown me compassion for the woman having to make the choice.

Do you have compassion for anyone who murders a living child?

I'm wondering what the ramifications of this whole sea lion ordeal will be? Is someone's head on the block? Are 'they' embarrassed? Is the media at fault for blowing this whole thing out of proportion? Is it a PR disaster?

>>the sea lions may have not been shot after all

well this is interesting...an initial premious from a false-truth.

From Wikipedia

Norma Leah McCorvey is best known as the legal pseudonym "Jane Roe" in the landmark Roe v. Wade lawsuit in 1973. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that abortion is a Constitutional right, overturning individual states' laws against abortion. Years later she recanted her support of abortion. In the meantime, McCorvey had not aborted, but had given birth to the baby in question. In the case, she claimed that her pregnancy was the result of rape. She now claims that to have been untrue.

In the 1980s, McCorvey revealed herself to be the "Jane Roe" of the famous case, and that she had been the "pawn" of two young and ambitious lawyers (Sarah Weddington and Linda Coffee) who were looking for a plaintiff with whom they could challenge the Texas state law prohibiting abortion.

Broadway -

Is it even remotely possible for you to stay on topic ONCE?

My God, you're worse than Wayne.

Sort of makes me think of NWOKIE. He had that same problem.

Now, were these beasties shot or what?

I've got your back too, Broadway.

Oh they sure talk a good game, but true to Marx and Lenin, leftists are never happy with a diverse range of opinions.

If you're not a fellow traveler, they'll try to quash all dissent going as far as the gulags a la Aleksandr Solzehnitsen....or worse.

It's either 'my way or the highway' with these anti-1st Amendment and anti-2nd Amendment rapscallions.

Herb

the title of this topic...

An Act of Incredible Cowardice

Those instrumental in the death of the most innocent unborn among us...

An Act of Incredible Cowardice

for not fessing up to the reality of life.

I rest my case.

This is my last posting here.
Will actually start a new exciting posting and topic later with full high-jacking first ammendment rights.

I don't think I'm really that horrible of a person many of you might think. I'm just a 35 year veteran radio guy doing mornings here in Portland.
I've just been rubbing shoulders/done a lot of interviews with the pro-life community and really think they've got a convincing argument that has not gone away and won't.

Life...what a wonderful CHOICE.

Spot on, Broadway.

As with slavery, the Right to Life can never be diminished.

It will keep coming back again and again. Because it's true, right, good and the natural law.

Herb

Say.
How 'bout those seals?

---

quote:

May 7, 2008, 6:21 pm
Officials Say Sea Lions in Oregon Were Not Shot
By Robert Mackey

On Monday we looked at the apparent shooting of six sea lions in Oregon, just outside of Portland. On Wednesday, The Associated Press reports that an examination of the dead sea lions suggests they might not have been shot after all:
Federal fisheries officials now say the six sea lions found dead in traps on the Columbia River apparently were not shot to death.
Spokesman Brian Gorman of the National Marine Fisheries Service said Wednesday that preliminary results of a necropsy found no evidence of recent gunshot wounds but found numerous shallow puncture wounds in one animal consistent with sea lion bite marks.

Gorman says X-rays found metal fragments in soft tissue near the neck of two animals.
He says a metal slug was found in the blubber of one animal, but neither the fragments nor the slug appear to be fatal and may have been from old wounds.
Over at The Seattle Post-Intelligencer’s Dateline Earth blog, Lisa Stiffler explains:
NOAA officials said they would continue to the investigation “to determine how the animals died and how the doors to the traps on which they were found could have been closed.”
The trapping was put on hold following the deaths of the four California sea lions and two Stellar sea lions. A seventh animal died following a medical exam after it was captured.
Ms. Stiffler also reports that the Fisheries Service is asking “people with any information on the sea lion deaths” to call the Enforcement Hotline of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration at 1-800-853-1964.

---

I am still hijacking along side Broadway so my apologies.

I too am a 30 year radio veteran who has done morning radio in Portland on serveral occasions.

Just this morning I was at Gresham High school part of a Modern Media Class. One student asked me " What's the most meaningful thing you've done in radio?" What a great question.

In a nutshell: Circa 1995 during my time at Z100 we used to do a Sunday night show called "How's Your Love Life?" I was filling in for a few weeks for Tony Martinez who normally hosted the show.

We had a therapist who took on all the hard questions. On this evening we got a call from an 18 year man named Chris. He said he was gay but was a Christian. He wanted to worship at his church but felt unwanted and was told in not so many ways he was going to hell.

The thearpist looked at me with a questioning look. I told this young man about a book I had read that really helped me undertand what he was going through. I also suggested several organizations to contact so he would have a caring community he could share his feelings with.

A week later I was on the air again at Z100 doing my normal weekend shift and this young 18 year old called me up. He said he had bought the book and read it and it had changed his life. He thanked me for making a difference in his life.

That young man would be in his early 30's now and I've wondered from time to time how he's doing.

Broadway/Dan-How would've you handled that kind of call?

Again I apologize for the additional hijack.

How did this thread get to be 217' wide?

Or is it just my computer?

It ate Cheese Cake for breakfast and a few two many Thrice fried beans!

How did this thread get to be 217' wide?

Amus' post on Wednesday the 7th.

Wow.

This has to be the most hijacked thread in eons.

Leave it to Chris to still make the read worthwhile. That is a great story. I hope you run into him again someday.

In the interest of bringing us back around to topic, here is an all-time Oregon bumper sticker favorite:

Sea Lion Caves!

"Amus' post on Wednesday the 7th."

Really?

Damn!

Appologies to all!
I hate that!

Alas, we never got to visit Sea Lion Caves because my Dad did not want have to remove one of those bumper stickers from the car. We begged every time to stop there, and begged even harder for the alluring and fabled PixieLand and/or Pixie Kitchen, all to no avail.

That's why I like Mr. M; We got to stop at every single Mom & Pop drive-thru tree in the redwoods and at the giant Paul Bunyan and Babe statues!

Mr. M HAD to ask every single tree owner if "anyone ever got their car stuck in there". They all just rolled their eyes at being asked that question for the 6000th time. Good Fun!

Wow. Turns out it was Global Warming that killed the Sea Lions.

http://www.katu.com/news/18948424.html

Everything about this whole ordeal stinks. Heat exhaustion? At night? In 60 degree weather?

Yeah, there's something rotten in Denmark with that.

P.U.

P.U. Is that what a cover up smells like?!

This whole thing smell's fishy if you ask me! You suppose some fisherman poisoned them just for the Halibut?

I thought it was Salmon.

Herman is considered a "Sturgeon of Interest".

It's the second lead story on Fox 12 tonight. Methwatch/Cops Killing Someone Else was the top story, of course.