More women with guns!!!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...omen.guns.wtae

The video did not load for me, but Ill say this. Does anyone really need a gun? This isnt the Wild west anymore. I just dont see the sport in killing animals for trophy, food is a different matter though.

anyhow thats what I was thinking.

For some reason the link didn't copy right.

Try this one:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/09/frey.pa.women.guns.wtae


As long as the bad guys have guns, and they always will no matter how many laws are passed, we need the good guys (that's us) to have guns too!

I'm with you on the hunting. If I'm going to hunt something (or catch fish) it will be to eat them.

I have no desire to mount any animal's head on the wall, not to mention that after being married to her for 23+ years, I’m absolutely sure Mrs. Skybill wouldn't allow it!

That's one reason I don't deer hunt. I don't care for venison.

When I fish, it's mostly catch and release. However if I land a really big fish, you can bet it's going home with me!!!

I dont want to take away the guns, just the bullets....



I fish as well, but since I can not stand the taste of fish I usually throw them back.

Yeah, bullet control.

Google this and Chris Rock. Excellent bit.

How about taxing bullets? Buy the gun for cheap but a box of bullets for a Glock 9m.... $300?

How about taxing bullets? Buy the gun for cheap but a box of bullets for a Glock 9m.... $300?

And the reason for that would be............??

All that will do is penalize the law abiding gun owners.

Criminals will just steal the bullets they need.

How about we lobby the judges to enforce the laws we already have?

Or pass new laws that include things like if you use a firearm in the commission of ANY crime it is a mandatory 25 years in jail WITHOUT any chance for parole or early release.

I was just jokin'.... I'm a gun owner myself.

Criminals will just steal the bullets they need.

They ALREADY do!

pass new laws that include things like if you use a firearm in the commission of ANY crime it is a mandatory 25 years in jail WITHOUT any chance for parole or early release.

How about if you kill someone period?

"How about taxing bullets?"

But what about the powder, primer and case? I don't know about you guys, but I buy or reload "cartridges" for my firearms.

And, we already are paying federal taxes on ammunition.

It was a play off of what Missing said about Chris Rock...
GEEEZZZ!
Testy you EXTREME RIGHTIES are...
NOBODY is going to take your right to bare arms... Calm down!

I'd like to see mandatory gun registration, similar to car registration. If "law abiding" gun owners are truly law abiding, there should be no problem with that, right? And anyone caught with a gun that is not properly registered gets jail time. Registration would be free, but require the proper background checks.

"NOBODY is going to take your right to bare arms"

Great. Now I can wear my short-sleeved shirts.

"I'd like to see mandatory gun registration, similar to car registration."

Vital, here are some reasons I wouldn't

Vitalogy, I'm not asking this to be argumentative, so please don't take it that way.

How do you think mandatory gun registration would help solve gun violence?

I'll give you my reasons why I don't think it would in another post.

Let's have mandatory gun insurance as well. If you use your gun in public, be prepared to show proof of insurance or face the fine.

OOOH OOOOH mandatory gun locks too.

AND no operating a hand gun and talking on a cell phone at the same time.

Magic eye, gun registration will only affect those that are not "law abiding" gun owners. Why the fear? If you are law abiding, you have nothing to worry about. You guys seem to use that excuse for why you approve of unwarranted wiretapping...why not guns?

Skybill, the reason I want gun registration is to track the criminals who use guns and to make sure that "law abiding" gun owners really are law abiding. If a gun is used in a crime, hopefully there would be a way to trace who the owner of the gun is. Simply put, gun registration ups the ante as far as accountability goes. Plus, it's a way to separate the "law abiding" gun owner from the law breakers. Guns are serious business and should be regulated more than they already are.

How about we just let EVERYONE carry a gun? How about no need for concealed gun permits? Just Wild West it out there????
I'm just sayin'...

I like that idea, maybe there should be a govt program to issue guns to people that can't afford to buy them. And a bullet subsidy.

Strap on a pair of six shooters and go to town! Better get some boots, spurs, and a ten gallon hat just for shits and giggles. sPtttt, BULLSEYE, hit that ol' spittoon dead center! Dang, i'd be like Hoss Cartwright!

We could make John Wesley Hardin's birthday a national holiday.

If I were to purchase a gun, which I wouldn't be willing to rule out for certain, I would have no problem registering it. That's because I would be a law abiding gun owner myself...

Hey!
If you get pissed at someone you could just shoot them. AWESOME!
If your neighbor's to noisy and it pisses you off you can just shoot him....

I don't have any issue with the registration policy as it stands now.

When you buy a gun, the dealer does a FBI telephone background check and if you pass you get your gun, handguns require a waiting period. If you have a CCP you can take your handgun with you right then but you still have to do the background check with each purchase. The dealer or FFL holder keeps the registration papers on file at their location.

They are not made public nor or are they accessible to any other agency without a subpoena.

There is no need for any further registration other than this. It won't keep guns out of the hands of the criminals or reduce gun violence. I’d bet a very expensive steak dinner (Maybe at Morton’s) that NO criminal will EVER register their gun! It will simply be a burden to the lawful gun owners, the dealers and whatever government agency is saddled with tracking the records.

Which brings up another good point; which government department are you going to "trust" with that information and how are they going to be funded?

That being said, I wouldn't have a big problem if there was some kind of mandatory gun safety training similar to the hunter safety training that anyone born after 1977 has to take to get a hunting license here in WA.

The purpose of gun registration is to connect the dots between gun and owner. Just like if I run over someone in a crosswalk and flee the scene, someone will see my license plate and report it. This can then be accessed to see what person belongs to that car. Same thing holds true with a gun. I don't see this as being a burden to any law abiding gun owner. This would separate the law abiding from the criminals. If you're caught with an unregistered gun, it's a felony with jail time and you would no longer be allowed to have a gun.

As far as trusting the govnernment, if you trust them to spy on your email and phone records, why would you worry about a database of gun owners? You trust the IRS with all your info, right? And as far as funding, well, we can sell a couple of T-bills and it would be no problem. That would be a program I wouldn't have a problem borrowing money to launch because it would save lives.

But it wouldn't save lives.

Think about it; The people that are out there murdering people are not the law abiding gun owners who would have to register their guns.

The criminals and gang bangers are the ones killing people and they aren't going to register their guns no matter what or how many laws are passed.

If your gun is stolen and then used in a crime, then all the registration in the world isn't going to help find the criminal. Same thing if your car is stolen and involved in an accident.

Furthermore, registration is just one step away from confiscation.

While you may not want to take away anybody's right to own a gun, there are PLENTY of our elected officials that do.

A small list: NYC Mayor Bloomberg, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and Dianne Feinstein.

George Soros and Rebecca Peters have funneled millions and millions of dollars to anti-gun groups and have as much as said they favor a worldwide ban on private citizens owning guns. The UN is pushing for this too.

Do a Google search for "gun registration" and "gun bans" and read both sides of the argument.

Here is a good article from US News and World Report;

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/03/06/in-congress-the-uphill-b attle-for-gun-control.html

Here is an article on how gun control has worked in other countries:

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-12.html

"But it wouldn't save lives."

Yes it will. It's my belief that not all self proclaimed "law abiding" gun owners are indeed law abiding. Registration would keep guns out of peoples hands that shouldn't have them and regulate those that are allowed to have them. And, it would help in nabbing those that are using guns and breaking laws.

"Furthermore, registration is just one step away from confiscation."

That's the silliest argument ever. Does the fact that I have to register my car or dog mean either will be confiscated? Nope!

Like I said, true law abiding gun owners should have no problem with gun registration if they are as they say.

I agree with Skybill 100%. Vital, you cannot or will not see our side. So be it. Lastly, you wrote earlier, "If you are law abiding, you have nothing to worry about. You guys seem to use that excuse for why you approve of unwarranted wiretapping...why not guns?" Which guys? I resent that. Just because I do not favor firearm registration doesn't mean I support warrantless eavesdropping.

I like the indirect approach.

Why are guns such a problem? Basically because of the people holding them.

So, what about those people then? Let's classify some:

-freaks and nut-bags

-criminals

-ignorant people.

Let's start there and assume we won't have registration.

Mandatory gun education. Bust the 10 most common myths surrounding guns. Promote good safety, like we do for driving cars. I'm sure there are other education related things that can be done.

With that education comes the entitlement to own a gun legally, just like driving a car is done legally. With cars, the majority of people know how to drive and we are fairly safe with the cars as a result. Similar things could be done with guns.

The norms established here would be very powerful. Right now, norms are all over the place and that's a problem right there. Fix that, things get better.

For the freaks and nut-bags, maybe we should really screen people hard for gun ownership. We do this for lots of potentially dangerous things. Explosives, cars, radio gear, chemicals, etc...

Criminals are gonna get their guns period. I think this is established and the sheer number of guns available will not change that.

So, the norms I talked about would likely reduce general fear and with that comes a significant reduction in the advantage armed criminals have when using arms in the first place. This could pack quite a punch.

Those same norms would have an impact on up and coming generations too. Maybe that will diminish the overall escalation of force we have been seeing for some time.

Ignorance is a total factor here. It needs to be addressed big time.


I do want to revisit bullets. If we marked the materials used for manufacture of the explosive component, we could track the chains of ownership better. This can be done and should be done.

We do this for lots of dangerous things too. It harms nobody, and does help to trace bad behavior.

Home loaders could still home load, as these substances would be marked at the point of production, with circumvention carrying very stiff penalties. We've enough technology now to make this idea perfectly viable.

Imports of these substances would be subject to compliance and subject to tariffs large enough to encourage production right here at home, where we have the very best chance of making sure the core components are tagged properly and the chain of ownership records are actually recorded well enough to do the job.

From there you use whatever gun you want, loaded however you want, used how you want.

Should the stuff get stolen then it's not a huge deal. The investigation will lead your way, but it will be of little concern. Stuff happens, and honestly, it's not a lot different than the guy at the gun store remembering who he sold specific bullets to, and police swinging by to know if that person knows anything.

Bottom line, I just don't buy the "there is nothing we can do but own more guns and hope our guns are bigger than theirs" bit. We can do stuff, and we can keep the liberty in place too.

Always claiming doing anything but being completely hands off the gun owners is a cop-out that isn't doing anybody, including gun owners any favors.

Sorry, Doug, but there's a whole heaping helping of pie-in-the-sky there!

Totally!

My real point is that we need to have those kinds of discussions. Get shot down, no biggie. The why in there will lead to discussions that might not be so off the mark.

I want to work on this problem. It just feels like something we are fighting our own selves over more than we could be. That aspect does not get the attention it needs.

I like guns, when the kids are out of the house, will again own a gun or two, and hold no beef with others that own guns. Grew up with them, hunted, went shooting, etc... all good.

I also believe that fear and ignorance about guns in general contributes to the problems we have with them.

There is fear among people over the danger guns present. There is fear from gun owners worried about that fear trumping their ownership. This fear has pushed a lot of people to extremes, and that's no good. Too divisive to actually get anything that matters done.

There is ignorance about guns across the board from all sides, all kinds of people. Hell, some of the ignorance is linked to the fear! Ugly cycle.

With those two in play to the degree we see right now today, escalation of the problems will continue to be the highly likely result.

Some excellent thought food. Thanks, Doug!

" There is ignorance about guns across the board from all sides, all kinds of people."

Yep. For instance I thought that you had to register your gun.

"...handguns require a waiting period." You know, I thought that too. My brother just bought a handgun and walked out with it just last week though.

CJ, does he have a concealed carry permit?

If so, when you purchase a handgun, they still have to do the phone check, but you don't have to do the waiting period.

I've purchased 2 handguns since I've had my permit and didn't have to wait on either of them.

Edit add: You don't have to register your gun per se. When you purchase it there is a bunch of paperwork to fill out and the dealer or FFL holder keeps the paperwork. This paperwork is available to law enforcement only with a subpoena.

No. He does not.

Is he in law enforcement?

I don't think they have to wait either.

If not either the store screwed up, or might he have gone in and done all the paperwork ahead of time?

Don't know what to say.

I'm pretty sure there is at least a 3 day waiting period (the time may vary from state to state).

I know for my .357 I had to wait as I didn't have my permit then.

I also know that if I drive across the river to the Clackamas Sportsman’s Warehouse (or other gun store) and purchase a hand gun (I don't know about long guns) they have to ship it to a WA FFL holder.

Same thing if someone buys a gun at gunbroker.com.

Where did he buy it?

From some guy on a corner.

No. He bought it from a dealer in Woodburn ( south of Portland ). They did do an instant background check - then he walked out with it. It was a Ruger of some kind. He is not in law enforcement. This is the third gun he has purchased and he says he's never had to wait. All from different sellers too.

I thought the waiting period was in effect because; #1. It just plain took a few days to perfrom the background check. So then gun seller could then say that #2. It is prudent to make sure this gun is not being purchased in the heat of passion, etc.

I wonder if now that the time it takes to do a background chaeck has been eliminated, the gun sellers just went " Oh well - we don't have a real reason to make them wait anymore. "

The background check only takes about 15 min on the phone.

As far as I know the waiting period has not been eliminated, at least here in WA it hasn't.

I understood the waiting period to be a "cool down" period as you mentioned above also.

I'll check with a few people and see. Who knows, maybe it did change on 01-JAN.

Magic eye, I do see your side and want to allow people to have guns, but would like to see some sort of registration and/or licensing so we can track who has what guns. I'd also like to see stiffer penalties to those that don't follow the registration/licensing requirements. This will help keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys, because if they get caught, they go to jail! You guys claim this won't work, but I'll bet when someone is jail, they won't be on the street illegally armed! This sort of system would in no way inhibit the law abiding gun owner to own and use the guns they want. It seems most gun owners just want a free-for-all with no rules. Guns are a danger to society and should be regulated much more than they are currently, but remain available to those who can demostrate they can handle the responsibility.

And Magic eye, I'm not saying that you support warrantless wiretapping. What I am saying is that the NRA/conservative crowd has stated that "if you aren't doing anything illegal, what is the harm in the government tapping your phone without a warrant." But, when it comes to gun registration, this same statement could apply, yet the NRA crowd seems to reject it. That seems like a double standard to me.

Interesting -

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? No

No state requirement that there be a waiting period for gun sales beyond the "instant check" in federal law. Police are not given any additional time to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. There is no "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

More -

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=waitxstate

Skybill, are you in favor of a waiting period?

"But, when it comes to gun registration, this same statement could apply, yet the NRA crowd seems to reject it."

Don't know about the NRA crowd. However, I am an NRA Benefactor Life Member. It's awfully nice of you that you want to "allow people to have guns" despite the fact it's a Constitutionally protected right. (By the way, Oregon's keep and bear arms provision is even clearer than the Fed's!) Bad guys possessing guns now do go to prison for longer stretches since the laws were strengthened. Finally, you wrote "It seems most gun owners just want a free-for-all with no rules." Not true here. You must know there already are thousands and thousands of laws dealing with the purchase, possession and use of firearms. We should remove many of these ineffective laws and strengthen the good ones, but we do have more than enough, IMO.

"there already are thousands and thousands of laws dealing with the purchase, possession and use of firearms."

Based on the amount of gun violence and the number of Americans that die at the barrel of a gun each year, I don't believe these "thousands" of laws are effective. We need to do more.

And, the Constitution does not guarantee "everyone" the right to bear arms, as felons are one group that lose that right. I'd like to increase the pool of those that lose the right to bear arms to more than just felons.

And by the way, where are those NRA defenders of the Constitution on things like warrantless wiretapping and habeas corpus?

"And, the Constitution does not guarantee 'everyone' the right to bear arms"

I never said it did.

"...where are those NRA defenders of the Constitution on things like..."

Those aren't its bailiwick. The NRA is about firearms rights. It's not the National Anti-wiretapping Association or the NHCA.

Actually, it does, "The peoples right to keep and bear arms, shall be unabriged". That means everyone, now with all rights, if you commit certain crimes you forfit them.

So criminals can be barred from having arms, and the mentally ill lose a few rights.

Magic eye, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of NRA members that selectively support the Constitution...

"...I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of NRA members..."

Vital, I need a name. Do you have the name of an NRA member who only selectively supports the Constitution? Just curious.

"The peoples right to keep and bear arms, shall be unabriged".

Nwokie, actually it's "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Magic eye, Brad Keenan.

My dad.

Okay, there are two. I was wrong.

Guaranteed there's more. Ask your fellow NRA members, I'm sure you'll see a trend of selective support of the Constitution.

Vitalogy: This will help keep guns out of the hands of the bad guys, because if they get caught, they go to jail!

No it won't. The criminals are NOT going to register their guns. It doesn't matter how many laws are passed the bad guys are just not going to comply.

There are already laws on the books for criminal possession of a handgun/firearm. Enforce those.

Dark Temper: WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales? No

Actually (and I just called the Sportsman’s Warehouse in Vancouver) there is a period you have to wait but it's not a "cooling off" period or a mandated "wait" timeframe.

Here's the deal; I have a concealed carry permit so if I go in and buy a hand gun, I/they fill out the paperwork and they call in the background check. If I pass, I walk out with the gun (after paying of course!).

Someone that does not have a CCP walks in to buy a handgun, the purchaser and dealer fill out the same paperwork as I would, then the paperwork is transferred to the Sherriff’s department and they do the background check. It usually takes 5 days, sometimes a day or so less depending on the municipality.

I also called the Clackamas Sportsman’s Warehouse and asked them the same thing.

Here's the deal at that store; they do the "instant check" for anybody that wants to purchases a handgun. If you pass, you pay and the gun is yours. This explains how your brother was able to take his gun with him.

It's a different story if I go to Oregon and buy a handgun. Even though I have my Oregon CCP, they have to transfer the gun to a WA FFL holder and they have to do a WA background check.

Although I can go to Oregon and buy a long gun, they still have to do the instant check, but they don't have to transfer the long gun to WA.

The instant background check has to be done regardless of whether you are purchasing a handgun or a long gun.

Skybill, are you in favor of a waiting period?

I don't really have an issue whether they have a wait period or not. As I mentioned above, with a CCP, I personally don't have to wait as I've been fingerprinted, photo’ ed (is that really a word?) and had a thorough FBI background check done already.

One note about the instant checks. There is a huge disparity in the information flow from government agency to agency. Thus some could be deemed mentally incompetent and it may or may not ever make it to the instant check database.

This is a big issue/problem and there are lots of groups, including the NRA, working on getting it fixed.