GAS prices are going up and up and up!

Thanks DUHbya!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23550921

Yeah, blame it on Bush, not on the oil companies who are making RECORD profits.

Get real.

Sorry, but you can't blame it on Bush because he said he hadn't heard anything about $4 a gallon gas.

And if he says it, it must be true.

Sorry, but you can't blame it on Bush because he said he hadn't heard anything about $4 a gallon gas.

Yeah, I had to shake my head at that comment too!

Cheney hasn't approved the $4/gal gas yet so hasn't informed Bush.

It's tragic that after 9/11, the American president didn't put America on a crash course to wean America off of foreign oil by, say, 2016 or something like that. Think what effect that would have had on the cost of oil even now, as by now we'd be using less oil and reducing demand just a little bit. More importantly, the oil market would know that US demand would be dropping or at least slowing its increase.

Nothing but a failure of leadership at the top.

Andrew

It was only to insight the EXTREME RIGHT....
I only blame Bush for everything else....

Blame the automobile companies for being so late to get on alternative fuel concepts, Blame the oil companies for record profits, and mostly blame yourself for driving your SUV.

Trixter, Bush will be out of office soon, you might want to think of new ways to butcher the next presidents name and place blame.

Actually we have had answers to this problem for some time.

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/trailer

We could regulate the oil companies better if we had been working on alternative infrastructure like Brazil did.

Hey, there is an upside! Lots of clunkers will be off the road very soon. $4 - 5 gas will make them even more worthless than they are now.

There are two main reasons why oil is so high right now. First off, there is about a 30% premium built in thanks to our foreign policy in the middle east. For this, we can thank Bush.

Secondly, oil is a commodity, and when economies go into recession, commodities tend to rise in price as a hedge against inflation. Bush also shares blame for this as well, because it's his economic policies that are causing economic pain here in the US, which is spilling over to the rest of the world.

I think the Oil companies are making a last really big run at money for one reason; The know they can and they know we'll pay it.

Heck, maybe some of those same companies will be the ones that end up announcing a big alternative breakthrough ( and no, it won't be ethanol [ read; Boondoggle ] ) in energy.

And by the way, Ben Stein had a good commentary on how The Oil companies need a hug. I wouldn't have heard this perspective had it not been for Glenn Beck -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/business/02every.html

"Lots of clunkers will be off the road very soon. $4 - 5 gas will make them even more worthless than they are now."

Not just clunkers, but nice SUVs as well. You can get a Suburban for 10 cents on the dollar.

It's cheaper to drive a $2000 "clunker" that gets 15 mpg than a $25,000 hybrid that gets 50 mpg. When you figure payments, insurance, depreciation, and maintainence, fuel can be one of the smaller expenses of owning a car.

True enough. Dollar per mile is highly likely to be lower.

This does not change the hybrid up-side down return, but may well encourage trade ups to the better vehicles.

I've a 10 gallon tank and that's hitting $35.00 for the better gas. (yes, it does make a significant difference) $70 or so, for the same approximate range is gonna start to hit people hard enough to really look at their vehicles.

Somewhere around 30mpg is the sweet spot, IMHO.

Depends on the amount of driving too.

If it's back and forth to work, small distances, probably does not pay to upgrade the clunker.

Any significant miles though, and it's gonna pay quick --and deliver a cash flow benefit many will find worth it.

Oil companies are not setting the price of oil, the free market is.

Money is flocking towards commodities. Commodities are seen as a safe haven by investors during uncertain times. This is why oil, gold, wheat, and corn are skyrocketing in price.

Can anyone say "stagflation?"

Exactly. Dont like the price of gas? Stop driving.

I'm not defending the oil companies. I'm only trying to show people that the price of oil is not determined by demand alone. Other factors are at play, and right now, oil prices are being pushed higher due to other market forces that are not in the oil companies control.

I can't find the tread where I talked about the '92 Geo convertable on eBay, but it finally sold for $1650. 48 bids.

It was a non-running car.

...............................................

Here's another one. Although it runs, it needs major engine work and has tranny issues. The bid is currently $1300

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-GEO-METRO-LSI-CONVERTIBLE-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220208837239QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220208837239

When I think clunker I'm thinking under 500 dollars.... 2 grand is a healthy chunk to drop for a clunker!!!!

Autos seem to be an item that defies the law of supply and demand. Everyone has multiples, there are full car lots more numerous than McDonalds and Walmart, so given availability, so a running used car should start in the 200 dollar range.........

Here is one for ya:

http://www.pacerfarm.org/other12f.jpg

I heard a segment on OPB over the weekend about the current price of oil.
Seems that a lot of what's going on with Oil prices now is that there of speculative trading in oil as other commodities become more unstable.

I don't recall the figures but speculation in Oil was up in the hundreds of percents over just a couple of years ago.

All of which means the price of oil could collapse like the housing bubble.

Personally, I'd rather it stay high to make other alternatives more cost effective.

MC...
I'm ONLY doing to DUHbya what the EXTREME RIGHT did to Slick Willy till his last day. HELL EVEN NOW!
Sticking up for Slick Willy???? NO WAY!
DUHbya has done stuff that is equal or worse than Slick Willy. It just didn't invole having his dick sucked. But when you think about it.... I'm sure even DUHbya's wife wouldn't even do that for him....
Round and Round ...
What goes around comes around....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/11/markets/bc.apfn.as.fin.mkt.oilp.ap/index.htm?pos tversion=2008031110

"This surge to new records is driven by the speculative and large funds moving money into commodities. It's primarily a U.S. dollar and inflation play by financial investors," said Victor Shum, an energy analyst with Purvin & Gertz in Singapore.

Many analysts believe speculative investing attracted by the weak dollar is the primary reason oil has risen so far so fast in recent months. Crude futures offer a hedge against a falling dollar, and oil futures bought and sold in dollars are more attractive to foreign investors when the dollar is falling. And expectations are growing that the U.S. Federal Reserve will cut interest rates at its policy planners' next meeting March 18.

"Lower interest rates would mean increasing liquidity, which means a further weakening of the U.S. dollar and rising U.S. inflation," Shum said. "What that means for investors is that they therefore move their money into commodities as a hedge against inflation."

Many analysts believe the rise in crude prices is not supported by the market's underlying fundamentals, noting that supplies are generally rising while demand is falling.

"Crude oil futures' relentless advance is a price bubble and certainly, a sharp pullback cannot be ruled out," Shum said.

Has anybody here altered their driving habits/purchased a more efficient vehicle as a result of this recent run-up of gas prices? What works for you? Or are most of us caught up in the "frog in the boiling water" syndrome?

My employers have. Neighbors have.

I run efficient cheap ass stuff now, so I won't be changing up soon.

Did modify driving habits however. Driving like a human, really raising the bar for "in a hurry" saves a lot of stress and gas.

We've been a one-car family by choice for 15 plus years. But we also work from home so my daily commute is downstairs. We live in a part of town where we can walk to most places. We do use MAX from time to time.

We drive a 1996 mini van. I take it in for it's FREE 3000-mile check regularly. Has probably saved us $4-5000 over the years. Not the greatest mileage but it does run nice. We will buy in the future a hybrid of some kind but for now paying gas for one vehicle is fine. Insurance runs $500-600 yearly.

We know we have it good and have worked very hard to be where we are now. I have to give my wife loads of credit for being such a forward thinker in many of these areas.

Yeah, blame it on Bush, not on the oil companies who are making RECORD profits.

Get real.

Dear Skybill;

The reality is as follows:

Bush=Big Oil

So you can blame Big Oil and most of us will blame Bush.
Either way, it's our beloved capitalism run amok.
There are ways to control this but Bush wishes not to.

I bought a new car, gets 35-40 mpg, but I hardly drive, I use max and c-tran, spend 3-4 hours a day getting to and from work, but with a laptop with internet anywhere capability, I get a lot done while commuting, plus I get to watch all the crazies.

Just make sure one of those crazy's doesn't relieve you of your laptop!

As I've said, I'm into classic/vintage cars. My daily driver is a '67 Dart with 225-six engine, gets just under 20mpg. The last two collectibles I've owned have been sixes, one a 223-six in a full size Edsel (good mileage, crappy performance) and then sold it to buy my '60 Comet (sister to the Ford Falcon) with a 170-six. When I get it tuned up right it should get in the low 20 mpg range.

My latest move was to get rid of a full size Chevy van (350 V8) and a full size Chevy truck (350 V8) and replace both with a full-size Ford crew cab with a 300 six and four speed. This cooked two cars down to one, and the six, even in the big crew cab, will get 18-19 mpg.

I know that these are not major mileage numbers, but I have always done all my own maintenance and these older cars allow me to continue doing so. Plus no car payments, and insurance is cheap - especially on the collectibles which are maybe $200 per year total for all four that I have. Plus, I just think the older iron is kewl.

Hey, going from 10 mpg to 20 mpg is a pretty big leap!

Edit add: Anyone ever checked out CA-40? It's getting lots of good press in the automotive circles, and is really supposed increase mileage and reduce emissions. I'm probably going to order some soon.

I've also heard that adding a small amount of acetone (1-3 oz per 10 gallons) to your gas will help mileage and reduce emissions as well.

I have not actually tried it myself so I can't vouch for it but there are tons of hits on Google, mostly in the positive, if you search for "acetone in gasoline"

Some guys on the ih8mud.com Land Cruiser board were trying it, but I never saw the results of their tests.

Here's a link to one site describing their tests;
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Apparently MythBusters did tests with it and they proved the myth as "busted" but there are several sites questioning their testing methods.

I'm thought I give it a try in the spring after I give the Cruiser a thorough tune up.

Heck, even if I get a 25% mileage increase (which I highly doubt) I'd only be up to 10 mpg!!

In response to Jr_Tech's question, yeah, I've not driven the Cruiser as much as I used to. I have a company vehicle that I'm not really supposed to use for personal use, but I do somewhat. It is not a strictly enforced rule.

Edit Add: Here is a link to the thread on the ih8mud board with some of their comments;

http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/93723-acetone-added-increase-mpg.html

Another link: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/524517/double_your_gas_mileage_2x/

I drive approximately 1000 miles per month. My car gets 20 miles in the city, which is most of my driving. So, this puts me at about 50 gallons per month. Unfortunately, my car requires premium, so I pay more. I saw premium for $3.70 today, so my monthly gas costs as of today is about $185/mo. If gas went down by $1 per gallon, it would save me only $50 per month. $50 to my bottom line doesn't make or break me, and I can't drive any less than I currently do, and have always strived to be efficient with my trips regardless of prices, as time is worth than the gas saved. So in a nutshell, no, I haven't changed my driving habits, nor will I change my car, because I love my car.

Tried the acetone. Got little to no improvement. IMHO, that's busted.

Ed: Please do report back on the CA-30. I'm always on the lookout for these kinds of things.

A simple octane boost can be a great additive, depending on your engine characteristics. In my older straight 4 Ford, it boosted performance, but did not significantly increase MPG.

In the Toyota, it has a significant impact on in town MPG. Engine will perform much better, little to no ping, at low RPM.

Most times, in town driving can happen one gear higher, under light load. Big difference, if you can make it happen. I changed my engine timing to improve ping on low RPM. The trade off for this was a slightly lower efficient cruise on the freeway. (63-65 -vs- 70 or so)

Running plus gas + octane boost is best case overall milage in town gain. Super + octane boost was a waste (performance was peaked, but consumption went way up!), and regular gas was marginal to no improvement.

"Has anybody here altered their driving habits/purchased a more efficient vehicle as a result of this recent run-up of gas prices? What works for you? Or are most of us caught up in the "frog in the boiling water" syndrome?"

I sold my 4x4 1 ton gasser dump truck and bought another just like it only with a diesel engine.

We're also driving the Geo convertable a bit more (because the SUV threw a timing belt -- yep, bent valves.)

SUV...Timing belt???? What's up with that. Don't they still use chains? OH Wait, you gots one o them thar foreign jobs?

Yea...a Suzuki Samurai doesn't count as an SUV

Yesterday, I had to fill up. The gasoline was $3.419/gallon (gasp!!); it cost me about $36 to fill up the tank on my 1992 Huyndai Excel. I had never before paid that much to fill up. As a matter of fact, when the gas station attendant commented on the gasoline price, I told him that I nearly had a heart attack the first time that I paid more than $30 for a fill up. One saving grace of this car is that it can get about 34mi/gal on the highway. Its other graces are low insurance rates and a lack of car payments. Nonetheless, I am the kind of guy who likes to complain about stuff costing too much. I was going to give the Hyundai a vacation, but I ended up driving to work this morning when the folks a KPAM told me that there was rain in today's forecast.

The issue about high gas prices being the result of commodity prices going up is very important because that means that there is virtually no way to escape rising transportation costs. The reason for this is that any type of fuel can be treated and traded as a commodity. It doesn't matter whether that is biodiesel, ethanol, etc. "What about electric cars," some might ask. These would also get more expensive to run because the cost of electricity would go up. Many power plants use fuels (coal, natural gas, nuclear) to generate electricity, and the electrical generation capacity itself can be traded as a commodity, as Enron used to do.

As most of you know I don't drive. I am however a consumer of groceries and have noticed the rising prices of groceries in the last 3-6 months. I shop almost exclusively at Winco as their prices are nearly half the price of virtually all the same products at say an Albertson's or Safeway. I have switched brands to buying certain generics and notice how comparable products prices change from month to month. I have started to save my reciepts and track my monthly purchases and noticed something interesting this months grocery trip and that is that the grocery prices have stabalized but I doubt for very long.

I've had my checkbook in Quicken since '94.

Approximate groceries in 1994: $2,676
Approximate groceries in 2007: $5,597

I also weighed 30 lbs more back then and ate a lot more food.
I buy less volume now, but do buy higher quality than back then, which skews the numbers a little. I already posted my gas fill up prices somewhere in another thread.

When I started driving I could fill up my 61 Volvo's tank for what the cost of one gallon is today. Less, in fact. Probably about $3.00. Thirty years later, money hasn't multiplied that much. The minimum wage back then was $1.30/hr. My Dad paid me $3/hr to work in his store. Clearly energy costs have risen higher and faster since 1974 than anything else I can think of.
College costs are what, maybe 4x in the last 35 years. In 1969:

A loaf of bread cost.................. $ .20
A gallon of gas cost.................. $ .30
A gallon of milk cost................. $ 1.10
A Fillmore concert poster........... $ 1.25
A new car cost cost approx...... $ 2000.00
Average income (1 person) was.... $ 6,500.00
A new house cost approx............... $ 40,000.00

RE: suv

Its a Ford Escape with a 4 banger (22mpg). It had 130k miles when the belt broke.

We also have a Chevy Tahoe (12 mpg) but it is mostly used when we pull a trailer.

Andy_brown wrote:
So you can blame Big Oil and most of us will blame Bush.
Either way, it's our beloved capitalism run amok.
There are ways to control this but Bush wishes not to.


Well, let's put it this way. It's big oil and what's Bush doing about it? He has already said he would veto any bill passed by Congress that would intervene in high gas prices such as a windfall profits tax. There's plenty of blame to go around here.

Look if you want to save money on gas, park your gas guzzler. I love the fact so many Americans think they are entitled to cheap gas. We are just now catching up with the rest of the world. When I was in London a while back, I told a cab driver we were paying $3.50/gallon and he thought that was CHEAP! Use public transit. When I go to Portland or Seattle, I often use Amtrak and either rent a car in town or use Max or what ever is available. There are ways around this.

Even if you don't drive, I don't think there is a way to get around the high gas prices. Public transit systems will raise their fares to cover the higher fuel costs. Prices of goods will also go up, as the cost of shipping these goods goes up because it costs more to operate the trucks, trains, airplanes, and ships that move the goods.

Check the price of gas around the country...

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

Alfredo, that's the bigger worry. Thanks for the perspective Andy! BTW: My first home, purchased in '91 was 49K. The same house, with a nice face lift sold for 230K last year. Is that just NUTS or what?

If gas goes from where it is now to $5.00 / gallon, it's still a good deal overall. Impact on day to day driving is not that big.

Having that multiply through our cost of goods is gonna get very ugly.

Would pricing ordinary consumer gas at a higher rate to help curb this help somehow? If so, that would be a deal too --pretty good one. I know, problem is those cost savings would very likely be kept as profit. Still, if there was a way to deal with that, I would be for it.

People like to complain about the cost of fuel, but in reality they probably spend more per month on cigarettes, coffee or other nonessentials.

Given the amount of energy stored in a gallon of gas, it's still a bargain. We just need to stop using it so wastefully.

Tdac point well put. If we were to pay what it actually costs to produce a gallon of gas it would be nearly $10 a gallon.

Does anybody have their electric bill handy? Yesterday, I was looking up figures on the energy contained in a gallon of gasoline. The figures that I saw were in the range of 33-36 kWh.

When I filled up on Tuesday night, I paid $3.419/gallon. This comes out between 9.50¢ and 10.36¢ per kilowatt-hour of energy. Although I can't recall the typical residential rates that PGE charges, I do know that they are less than this. I also did a miles per gallon equivalency calculation on the efficiency figures cited for electric vehicles and came out with a number on the order of 150 miles/gallon.

Unfortunately, the batteries for an electric car are so costly that the energy savings cannot, yet, make electric vehicles cheaper to own than gasoline vehicles.

1 joule = 2.77777778 × 10e-7 kilowatt hour
1 gallon of gasoline = 1.3x10e8 joules

so 2.78 x 10e-7 kwh/j x 1.3x10e8 j/g = 36.14 kwh/g

My bill last month for energy charge, transmission charge, and distribution charge is $63.62 for 628 kWh or 10.13cents/kwH.

At $3.50/gal of gas / 36kwh/g you get 9.72 cents. It's a wash.

First 250 kwh = 4.429 cents/kwh
above that....... 6.204 cents/kwh
Transmission charge 0.201 cents/kwh
Distrubution charge 2.841 cents/kwh
misc adjustments.. 0.134 cents/kwh

Close to the same as gas price/kwh.