Looks like someone has finally utilized my idea to compare McCain to Bush.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/mccain_mcsame_as_bush_de mocrat.html

They are a lot alike, both were good fighter pilots, both actually served their country. Both support a strong defense, neither support taxing those that work, so the proceds can be given to those that dont work.

Sweet!

He can say "change" all he wants to. The reality is the GOP has to either continue with the same brand of crap, or lose the base of nut-bags that keep them in the running.

He's not an option for anybody tired of the direction we are headed in.

That's most of us, BTW.

"both good fighter pilots"

LMFAO Clearly the military records say otherwise according to every reputable news agency on the planet, so don't give me your "got any proof" crap.

"both actually served their country"

The comparison isn't even close. McCain is a true hero. Bush is a yutz that flew a few hours at his own convenience and never completed his orders that were issued.

"neither support taxing those that work, so the proceds[sic] can be given to those that dont[sic] work"

If you had written taxing everybody except those whom are wealthy and believe the burden of supporting the country and the miscalculations and errors of the administration should fall on the backs of the middle class work force, you would be accurate. What you have written is so far from the truth it defies even the logic of conservative. All Americans are subject to taxes.

"McCain is a true hero."

Absolutely.

I would further say that no one on this board, especially me, is worthy to tie his shoelaces.

It would be an honour to have Mr. McCain as our president.

Herb

But not just because he is a hero, right? Being a hero doesn't make you anything but a hero - which is a lot. But not enough for me to vote for him.

Mr. McCain is a hero.

His opponents are not.

Vote for the hero.

Besides, the left ought to like him. He's against waterboarding and for legalizing undocumented aliens. In addition to that, he's the only candidate with significant military experience, so he knows the consequences when our troops are sent into armed conflict.

Enough already, leftists. Either vote for the hero or admit you're simply socialist shills.

Herbert Huckabee McCain

The hero doesn't know squat about economics, and that is a bigger issue amongst many voters. A good balance care about getting the hell out of Iraq and focusing on terror. The hero wants to stay in Iraq until there is peace. Yeah right. This is the middle east. Sorry.
Don't need the hero, don't want the hero. Besides, war hero president's tend to expand executive power (think Teddy R.) and
Bush and Cheney have already succeeded in maxing that out.

Out with old ... in with the new. Obama or Huckabee. Oh, wait, the Republican machine drove him out like they did the hero 8 years ago.

From: The Washington Post Date: February 5, 2000 Author: Thomas B. Edsall; John Mintz | Copyright information
Texas Gov. George W. Bush, abandoning all pretense of running a nice-guy front-runner campaign, lashed out at John McCain's reform credentials today, charging that the Arizonan has hypocritically used his position as chairman of a Senate committee to raise money from lobbyists and to travel on corporate jets.

"I'm not letting Senator McCain get away with this Washington doubletalk," Bush told reporters here. "He has been in Washington long enough to earn a very important committee chairmanship. He has used that position skillfully to forward his campaign."

Bush, who in the last few days has fallen behind McCain in South Carolina polls in advance of that state's Feb. 19 primary, previously ...

I'm a socialist shill.

I feel so liberated now.

...oh brother. Only vote for war heroes. No matter what. Got it. Otherwise I am unpatriotic and being deceived or something. I couldn't possibly have any valid reason for casting my vote the way I see fit.

The harder you rail like that Herb, the more you just lose. You were going to vote for Huckabee. He's not the hero. McCain was. Why were you ever going to vote for Huckabee if voting for a hero was all that matters?

Your hypocrisy is very deep right now, man. You are too emotional about something - I don't know what. But it's really coming off as a bad thing.

"Only vote for war heroes."

That's not what I said.

My main guy has been Huckabee all along. But he's no longer in the race and now there are three. Out of them all, one is a bona fide Hero with a capital H.

Voting for the Hero is not all that matters. But when you have a field of three like this, it's inexcusable to ignore his credentials and vote for wannabes. Given the need to combat terror, you're going to go with those who have either sold secrets to the Chinese, or wish to befriend Castro and his ilk? Please get real.

Herbert Huckabee Milhous McCain

He was in the race when there was 4 though. And you were going to vote for the person who was NOT the hero. So someone else can't have that same system today?

Weird. I thought I could.

?!?

Hey, I'm gonna vote my self-interest, just like everybody else is.

That's just American. Call it what you want to.

I think McCain is old, weak and a suck-up, with no real measure of self-respect. Sorry, but that's not really inspiring me to cast a vote.

Now I would gladly give him a pass on old. Everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt. No problem there. But OLD, WEAK, and HAVING NO SELF-RESPECT is just too much to pass on.

Why bother?

Nothing that matters is gonna happen with that kind of leadership. Heck, can you even call it leadership?

I can't.

I'm just gonna put it on the table right now.

McCain is a war hero. Gave a lot for the nation. Great guy, makes great food too.

I like that part, really do. It's totally possible to give him his props for his service, and recognize where he is today.

What I see today is kind of scary. Hero or not.

Leading the nation is serious stuff! It really matters. It matters enough that we just can't give any passes.

Doesn't matter what the accomplishment is --it could be really great --the best ever.

What does matter is what we see today, and more importantly, what we think we will get.

This guy got thrown under the bus, big time, and is now back kissing the GOP ass, hoping it might be a big enough schmooch to carry him through to the Presidency.

That's not how a really great American President behaves. It's more like a tool behaves. You know, one of those people the establishment can stand up there, prop up if they have to, and just lie, cheat, steal, and manipulate behind.

What's a wuss like that gonna do about it? Hell, he will have sold himself out completely getting there. Owes more favors than he has chances to pay on, and they are the guys that threw him under the bus!

Owned man. From day one.

So, he's just not the guy. It's ugly, but that's just how it is. War Hero or not, that's a big part of what we are looking at today.

In fact, the only reason this is up for discussion is the other guys were worse!

Think about that!

McCain is the best of the worst! Look at the other wannabes! How can we say he's the best, when he was up against the Dominionist Nut Bag Huckabee, Fred "the sleeper" Thompson, Ron "Children of the Corn" Paul and Mitt "Utah" Romney!

It's a freak show and everybody knows it.

Paul is pretty good actually, but scary because he's just not gonna play ball on a lot of stuff we all value. He's a changer though. Give him credit for that. Just not the right kinds of changes.

NO way am I gonna vote for a puss, particularly when terror is involved. All I see in McCain is a washed up, tired, not wired, puss, who let himself get thrown under the bus and LIKED IT enough to keep kissing the asses that put him under there in the first place.

This is certainly an interesting development from the wonderful wacky world of polls:

Obama almost as big with GOP as McCain

"Republicans like Sen. Barack Obama nearly as much as they like their own likely presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, according to a new Fox 5/The Washington Times/Rasmussen Reports poll.

The survey determined that a quarter of self-identified Republicans rated Mr. McCain most likable, but nearly as many - 23 percent - chose Mr. Obama as most likable. And among all adults surveyed, Mr. Obama was rated likable by more people than Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Mr. McCain combined, underscoring the Illinois senator's appeal to voters across the political spectrum.

Mr. Obama brings more than just likability. He was rated smartest by 26 percent of those polled, more so than Mrs. Clinton, who won 22 percent, and Mr. McCain, who garnered 17 percent. Mr. Huckabee, a former Arkansas governor, was fourth with 10 percent.

Even among Democrats, Mr. Obama was rated smartest by nearly half, a full 10 percentage points more than Mrs. Clinton.

Mr. Obama also was wildly popular among independents and third-party members, 41 percent of whom rated him most likable."

Washington Times

Obama smart, then why did he need affirmative action to get into college?

Nwokie, do you believe he NEEDED affirmative action to get into college? The question is not " Why did he take advantage of it? " It is " Do you believe he NEEDED it to get into college?"

Look, I can deal with it and am trying not tolose my cool with you ( it's not a threat - just want you to know ) but you are purposely pushing buttons. So if I or someone else starts pushing back, I'm sure you'll understand why.

Now, if you could answer my question, I'll continue to keep it civil.

Did he need it, I have no idea, I haven't heard one detailed plan out of him. He's big on oratery and looks, but as far as brains, I haven't heard or read anything he's written, to make up my mind on it.

He was smart enough to get a realtor to sell him a house at a big discount, and give him some land from next door, a realtor that needed help in the Illinois house, and who by the way is in jail now.

"Obama almost as big with GOP as McCain"

I've got some shoot-from-the-hip theories about this:

1) McCain's negatives are a huge deal to the GOP base (listen to Coulter and Limbaugh), putting him on par with the Democrats in desirability.

2) Obama is the Anti-Hillary, but being a man of color, Republicans can support Obama without feeling like they are doing it for only sexist reasons. "I may not be voting for the woman, but I'm willing to vote for the black, so if I'm sexist at least I'm not racist"

3) Obama is a fresh start all around, for both parties. Hillary and McCain each have huge positives AND huge negatives within their parties, and either candidate leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Obama is a blank slate, potentially beneficial to both parties.

4) The GOP is as tired of Bush's leadership as the Dem's, but won't go against Bush so as to avoid rooting against the home team (Loyalty is first and foremost with Bush). Now they can finally express how they feel

5) McCain is Dole '96 Redux. His age, long senatorial stint, war record, remind the GOP too much of the drubbing they got when Dole ran, and are predicting the same with McCain, so are deciding to jump ship early.

6) Barack Obama is overwhelming evidence that another Senator from Illinois, Abraham Lincoln, was right all along about freeing black folks.

"I haven't heard one detailed plan out of him." - Okie

Did you check out the thread Deane started? Have you gone and read his published information?

He's not pushing the detail on the mainstream traditional media channels because it's no longer the right venue for that. Doing that actually puts people to sleep these days, and the under 40 crowd is now very focused online. Not all of them, but a growing number of them, so the trend is clear.

You get your detail on line now. Obama gets it and is using each venue to his best advantage.

That's gonna seriously differentiate him from the rest of the crowd on TV, and that shows some serious smarts.

Ended up with a silly Daily Show on the PVR, so I watched it. It was about the flag lapel pin bit. Obama isn't gonna wear one because he's not willing to step into their little, "I have a flag, and so do my buddies" grade school, "who is cool and who drools" games.

Obama is doing a very good job at keeping the high ground and not baiting the others while he's doing it. He's got charisma and that's huge for TV.

Want to know why the others are calling him out on lack of detail? It's because they don't have that charisma to the degree he does. It's a loser ploy and Obama knows it.

If he steps down and buys into the fact that "detail" is part of the TV discussion, then he loses the advantage perception he has right now and why do that when it's perfectly reasonable to go online to get the detail?

As for the real-estate bit, let's again look at the end game.

Does that disqualify Obama? If so, what are the alternatives? Should we then just go McCain, because he's a war hero?

C'mon Nwokie, that's just BS.

At this point, you gotta be asking who would be better than Obama and why. He's got the high ground solid, and appears to be smart enough to keep it.

To get anything other than an Obama vote out of me, it's got to be something like Clinton gets the nod, in which case, she gets that vote.

The GOP isn't going to get those votes because they are responsible for most of the crap that most of us are voing to change.

Every time this comes up, just ask where the end game is? Do we give up on Obama for [something], or not? If we do, what does that mean?

It means either Clinton or McCain, is what it means. Most Bush / GOP supporters remaining, really don't want Clinton, so that leaves McCain.

All comes down to why McCain is BETTER than Obama, not how much worse we can make Obama look.

Ed, I think most of your post is gonna prove out nicely. Agreed.

Nwokie, you asked " Obama smart, then why did he need affirmative action to get into college? "

Well Chaka, I'll answer that for you since you obviously can't.

He didn't.

There.

Go ahead. Ask me anything you want. I will answer it for you.

Now what was your point? That people that use affirmative action aren't smart?

Nwokie, stop pretending that you have the mental ability to assess anyone's intelligence. You cite The Onion as a news source, wonder why you have to pay more than 2 cents for a Microsoft product, say shit you can't prove, avoid questions about topics that you yourself bring up, say shit you don't even believe just because you heard it somewhere and it sounds pretty and can't even hold up your end of any conversation.

Nwokie, you may be a decent person. But you obviously have a head injury ( am I wrong? I bet I'm not ) of some kind that prevents you from thinking beyond the capability of an 8 year old. And that's being generous.

Quit asking questions that have obvious answers. And when you get them - spelled out to you like a child - try and retain it for once.

Bend Over America, McSame same as the first!

http://www.spectrumz.com/z/images/bush_cannon.jpg

If McCain was so smart, they why did he get caught and become a prisoner of war?

See how absurd that sounds Nwokie?

Great stuff, Ed and Doug!

As for the real-estate bit, let's again look at the end game.

Does that disqualify Obama? If so, what are the alternatives?

In fact, I think all the Rezko business does is prove how difficult it is to be in politics without knowing rich slimeballs. There is a history of corruption in Chicago?! Katie bar the door! Remember, a truly great President came out of a cesspool of urban Democratic politics to heal our nation and free the world. His name was Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

I would point to the legislative record of Obama both in the Illinois Senate and the United States Senate as ample evidence that Obama has done absolutely nothing to help campaign donors or special interests. Well, unless you count Veterans, sick people, children and the poor as "special interest" groups.

Since that blonde lobbyist has vanished for over two weeks now, does that mean that McCain was involved with her? Does it mean he peddled influence? Is her absence guilt by omission? I assume she is safe and sound, not silenced by some goons, but should I be worried Nwokie? Even if the Rezko story is as bad as it could possibly be, it is still far less disgusting than the Keating Five scandal. He has a long record of this stuff and Obama does not.

The grim truth for the haters is that Obama is shaping up to be the cleanest candidate in this race by a mile. Hell, he might be the cleanest guy to run for the office since Lincoln. It is hard to get in a great deal of trouble when you work all day to make life better for your neighbors, sleep at home with your wife and kids, and go to church every Sunday. He reflects the American ideal of the activist, lawyer, professor and politician: A hip square.

If McCain is so smart then why in God's name did he allow the DUMBEST President EVER to endorse him?
It doesn't look good for my guy....

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS26 4US264&q=dumbest+president+ever

I almost always avoid these political threads these days... but what I'm wondering is if the Republicans are expecting a Democratic split, where half of the Democrats in the country vote for Obama, and the other half for Clinton.
Assuming the general masses don't educate themselves about the real choices out there (outside of Ds, Rs, and Nader), we'll get Democrats getting the most popular vote... but again a Republican wins the election because no single Democrat gets enough Electoral College votes.

Huh? Looks like you missed a day or two in high school.

Heck, it really was not that much of an endorsement.

Jon Stewart covered that last night. (last night for me anyway)

Hilarious! McCain goes to bat for Bush, and he gets a hot-dog dinner and a slap on the shoulder, "honored to have him as my friend".

What a puss!

Those two are just a couple of "Wieners".

"What a puss!"

That you would name-call an honourable man who nearly died in the defense of his country is beyond despicable.

No need to wonder why America knows the left has a problem with despising our brave troops. That's an albatross around their necks that isn't going away and we see it here every day.

I would like to have seen you say that to Mr. McCain's face before his injuries from spending 5.5 years in a Vietnamese hell-hole. Talk is cheap. Then we'd see who the real so-called 'puss' was and you would have been spitting teeth.

You've just reached a new low for PDXRadio.com.

Herb

I may be wrong in reading that post but wasn't he referring to "W" and not Mini McMe?

* Mini McMe ©® *

It actually applies to both.

Listen, I think McCain is weak in this area. Who he is now is not the same as who he was then.

If he gets elected, he's gonna be a GOP figurehead. We don't need that.

One very important element of the Presidency is ability to persuade. McCain does not demonstrate that to the degree I feel will get good things done for us. He got thrown under the bus huge, then proceeded to endorse the heck out of the person that did it, and when it came time to return the favor, he didn't even get that same consideration in return, and he appears to feel good about that!

Sorry, but that's weak --very weak and not indicative of a solid President.

Has absolutely nothing to do with his service and pain he went through to deliver it. Good man for that. Honorable.

Fair enough.

Say he's going to be a 'GOP figurehead.'

Say he's 'weak' in different areas.

But calling him such an inappropriate perjorative is outside the bounds of civility. He and men like him gave their blood for this country. They are twenty times the man I am, or anyone else on this board...at least among those who never went through what they did.

But since John McCain is not perfect, either, it's entirely fair to call him on his flip-flops, pretzel-like positions and/or bad decisions.

But in my view, to call Mr. McCain certain inflammatory names after what he's been through, is akin to tripping a blind veteran, or taking the wheel off a veteran's wheelchair. Some things you just don't do.
Here's why, on one level, it's akin to doing that:

JOHN McCAIN COULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM A HORRIFIC COMMUNIST PRISON, YET HE CHOSE NOT TO GO IN ORDER TO DENY THE COMMUNIST VIETNAMESE A MORAL VICTORY.

Who among us wouldn't have JUMPED at the opportunity to leave such a horrible prison?

In the same vein, I wouldn't call Mrs. Clinton the 'B' word or Mr. Obama the 'N' word, no matter what I felt about their positions. Let's save the dastardly descriptions for evil-doers like Stalin, Hitler, Mao and satan himself.

Thanks for reading my post.

Herbert Huckabee Nader McCain

NO way.

He's a puss, period end of story. Nigger and bitch are different.

Both play on immutable elements of a person. One is either black or they are not, same with being a woman.

Being a puss is something a person can change.

The difference is making somebody feel bad about something they can't control is inappropriate.

Applying that same social pressure to something they can change isn't!

If McCain would feel bad about that characterization, he has choices to do things differently. If his supporters feel the same way, perhaps a frank discussion about the matter would do some good.

If he really wants to be President, he needs to work on that big time.

Also, tripping somebody who is blind, is similar to calling them on being black, woman, etc...

Not something they can control.

Are you actually saying McCain can't control that today? If so, he really, really shouldn't be running for office. And I mean that rationally.

Oh, and I very likely would have jumped at the chance to leave big time. He deserves his props. Let's be fair here. I don't have that in me, at this time in my life, just to take the holier than thou bit off the table.

Seriously, if you are making the case that this is something he can't control, I'll take it back and feel bad about it.

If it is something he can control, well... I'm just not.

"He's a puss..."

You clearly still don't get it. Either you have an outright hatred for our brave men in uniform, or you're simply one who talks big.

Even with his age at 71, I'd love to see you say that, in a boxing ring, to Mr. McCain's face. I would be cheering as you landed flat on your behind.

Don't be such an ingrate to those who risk their lives for our freedoms. It isn't becoming.

Herb

Ok, how about brown-noser, suck up, yes man, etc... Those are all things a puss would do.

He's demonstrating a very low level of self-respect. That's what I am getting at.

And I may well be on my ass too. Can't box worth a crap, and would tell him that anyway. I would also tell him, he's better than that too, and make sure I said it before the first punch landed.

His past says so.

So, how come it's not happening right now? That's a big beef I have with this guy.

Has nothing to do with old either. That's not a factor here at all. Old does not impact this discussion at all. That would be saying feeble, and I don't think that applies, or maybe it does?

And that's where I'm asking if that's something he can't control. If so, I'm in the wrong.

I don't understand why someone who has served in the military get's a pass on things that are valid reasons to not vote for them for President. McCain can't be weak in any way? Missing can't note that?

Do you really think Missing is talking about something physical with McCain?

What if I hated Obama? Would I be a racist? There is a disconnect ( or an attempt to connet ) things that shouldn't and don't go hand in hand, Herb.

Do you like EVERYTHING about McCain, Herb? No. You don't. You've said so. So why is it ok for you to say it your way but not Missing?

Pick a question - any question.

Fine.

Brown-noser, suck up and yes man, while definitely perjorative and ad hominem, are not nearly so personal and vicious.

And at least they're not all-out attacks on Mr. McCain's manhood. One so brave has to be given credit for that much.

Memo to Democrats:

You might consider that while Mr. McCain wasn't the first choice of many voters, unless a good argument is made against his POSITIIONS, the left will have to be deft in not coming off as attacking a true hero.

Mr. McCain can be beaten. But just like not attacking Mrs. Clinton on her femininity, or Mr. Obama on his racial background, some areas will most certainly backfire.

Herbert Milhous

"Pick a question - any question."

I shall.

"McCain can't be weak in any way? Missing can't note that?"

Not at all. Mr. McCain can be weak in PLENTY of ways, and it's perfectly fine to note them. But if you expect the right to be marginally civil to your candidates, bash him on the issues and we'll bash you on the issues...not some 7th grade approach. Inflammatory rheoteric does little except to make the left look weak whilst rallying the right behind their hero.

Think.

I realize it's harder to do than such ad hominem and questionable name-calling which assails a brave American. But it makes for a better discussion.

Herb

OK. I honestly misunderstood what you were saying. You just don't like or appreciate the term " Puss " applied to McCain.

I can deal with that.

Fair enough.

Herb

Inflammatory...

I'll grant you that Herb. Just check out some Dictionary and Thesaurus references. This word is more inflammatory than not.

In my circle of people, this word is often used to indicate a distinct lack of strength and self-respect. Not so much the more common, "woman like" that appears to be the greater norm.

(didn't know that)

Fair call.

I'll go with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant

That takes the insult of the person off the table, which again, I think is a fair call. We then are left with the elements of behavior I was trying to get at in the first place.

That's very fair.

And for the record, as duly noted by Chickenjuggler, I have plenty of concerns with Mr. McCain on the issues myself.

Herb

So, is Tim McVeigh a hero? He served our country before he cold bloodedly murdered 100+ people in Oklahoma City.

Serving in the military does not automatically give someone a pass on their behavior. The way Bush treated McCain in 2000 and seeing them all chummy together makes me want to barf. What kind of a man with a shred of self respect would ever shake his hand or take his endorsement?

Also, did anyone know that McCain was a ripe age of 42 when he was chasing the skirt of his current wife at the tender age of 24? Typical Republican pig!

Or " hero " - like say, Hugh Hefner.

What kind?

Well, we've got all of these left!

Thesarus entries for sycophant:

adulator, apple polisher, back scratcher, backslapper*, bootlick, bootlicker*, brownie, brownnoser*, crawler, cringer, doormat*, fan, fawner, flatterer, flunky*, footlicker, glad-hander, gofer, groupie*, groveler, handshaker*, hanger-on*, lackey, lap-dog, lickspittle, minion, parasite, politician, puppet, sniveler, spaniel, sponger, stooge, toadeater, toady, truckler, water boy, yes-man

Plenty to choose from.

Last time I checked, the cowardly McVeigh didn't have a 5+ year hitch where he was tortured, whilst constantly writhing in pain and bleeding for his country...while having an opportunity to leave before his turn.

And though there may not be many things that 'undo' one's heroism, and McVeigh is no hero, what McVeigh did IS inexcusable.

But is that all you've got? You wanna compare murdering innocent civilians with skirt-chasing? How desperate can democrats get? Bring it on, man. Oh, SO bring it on.

And like I've stated repeatedly, Mr. McCain is not perfect. But attempts to deny his heroism only make the left look pitiful and petty.

Herbert

There has been no denial.

Really, it's all about not letting it impact rational assessments of his current behavior. Remember, we get what we get today, not what was in place years ago.

Let's do it this way.

I've got this car for sale. Back in the day, it was unbeatable. Won tons of titles, a real screamer. Everybody in town knows this car.

Today, you gotta take it easy though. Needs some serious work. Hasn't been all that well maintained. Could clunk out.

On the other hand, I've this other car. It's a screamer too.

Still can go the distance. It's in good repair, but didn't win the titles back then.

You got to drive this car to work, every day and your family depends on how well that car does it's job.

Gonna take the used to be screamer that's kind of a wash today, or the one that is known to run good right now, looking solid?

My point being the hero bit is not a primary selling point in this election cycle, just like all the street race wins are not the primary selling point for the car that needs a lot of work.

I'm not comparing McCain to McVeigh. Is that all YOU got??

I'm making the point that military service does not give a pass to what one has done outside the military. Whether it be murder, skirt chasing, or being a puss.

You've got a problem, because human beings are not cars.

But Mrs. Clinton is trying to sell us one.

And let the record show that I'm not besmirching used car dealers, which compared to certain politicians, is an honourable profession.

Herb

No I don't.

Being a hero then, does not assure of us that same person being a hero now.

McCain is not hero like these days. I SEE NO INDICATION OF BEHAVIOR BECOMING OF A HERO.

Sorry man, it's just not a primary point of interest, given the overall behavior we are seeing right now.

"Being a hero then, does not assure of us that same person being a hero now."

Unlike those who support the Clintons, character indeed matters, and always has. That's different than perfection, which neither you or I will ever achieve in this life. Nor will our candidates. That is, unless you want to define what the word "is," is.

But go ahead an twist yourself into a pretzel saying that honour and heroism don't matter. Come November, that dog won't hunt.

After if you were to get what you think you want, you'll see how it indeed matters, and in spades.

Herb

"You wanna compare murdering innocent civilians with skirt-chasing? How desperate can democrats get?"

Do my eyes deceive me? Is Herb saying that a war that has killed thousands of innocents is MUCH WORSE than a tryst with an intern? Herb to Conyers: bring on the impeachment charges!

Heh...

If character matters, and I believe it does. Then the points I raise about McCain are totally valid!

He's a [lemme see, let's pick from the list of remaining alternatives..} footlicker! That's close enough.

McCain's current behavior does not match up to the character he possessed when he was doing heroic acts.

And say what you want, nobody wants a president that will let somebody devalue him, then suck up to that person huge, then tolerate not getting the favor returned.

Can you imagine what the world leaders are gonna think about that?

Oh, and I want somebody of character.

That's Obama, from what I can see. He's kept the high ground, isn't very dirty at all. They've got next to nothing on that guy.

You said character matters right. Obama is kicking McCain ass all over the place huge, in that area.

Man the Swiftboats!