Chrisweiss posted:

---

quote:

That is a pretty normal delay for the SPS services. If you were able to listen to the realtime HD2 audio compared to its encoded broadcast signal you'd find a similar delay. The SPS (HD2, 3, etc.) is being encoded at the Importer, passed to the Exporter as packets, then fed to the exciter. The MPS (HD1) audio is encoded at the exciter or Exporter (depending on setup). The Importer to Exporter packet transfer takes a little longer.

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So "Accessible Information Radio" takes two distinctly different paths between the OPB studios and the TV and FM transmitters at the Skyline transmitter site?
Is it/will it be on the KOPB-Digital TV channel(s) as well?


THANKS Missing... my mouse was getting tired!

Jr--

Accessible Information Service (a.k.a. Golden Hours) used to be on 10.2's "Spanish" track for a while last year when OPB added its NTSC simulcast to their ATSC stream (and bumped Create and Oregon Channel to 10.3 and .4 respectively) but I haven't heard it on there since at least last Fall. I don't know what happened to it.........

I am pretty sure AIS/Golden Hours is still available on 91.5's HD3 channel. Not certain tho, as I haven't had access to an IBAC radio in a few months. (I might have to run to Radio Shack this afternoon...... ;o)

Motozak2:
For sure, it IS on KOPB-HD3, you missed the end of the other thread, we were talking about the timing differences between ch. 10 SAP and KOAP-HD3 (about 25-30 seconds)...Chrisweiss posted the response quoted above which explains why the delay (on KOPB-HD3) is longer than the "normal" 7-8 second IBOC delay.

It would seem that they would put it back on one of the digital TV "alternate audio" feeds before ch. 10 analog goes dark.

"I tried listening to the KOPB HD3 channel recently, but the levels were cranked up way too high, causing massive distortion."

I tuned in this afternoon for a short while and on normal "talk", it was cracking and distorted. They need to turn down the audio level.

When the level was down, you couldn't hear it and what you could hear sounded bad. It's much better this way!

Disagree. There's got to be a middle ground between too low and too high!

Whatever it is, so far, they haven't hit it.

Maybe they could get some tips from K-HITS.

Any word on the CBS stations? I feel like I'm being fairly patient for a kid in a candy store.

on the hdradio website, I looked for HD Stations in Nevada.K-NYE Art Bell's FM station in Pahrump isNOT listed!ART BELLdoes not actuallySupport HD Radio???if that is the case,then KEX ahould turn the HDOFF!,or else beware of UFO's

You'll see HD receivers under $100 before CBS turns on a single digital carrier in Portland.

The Clear Channel FMs should be ready for iTunes tagging soon. Importers and Exporters need software updates that are about to be released. Now, if there were actually radios available to do something about it...
I do have the right ipod though.

Thank you for the reply, Chris! It just wasn't the one I was hoping for.

Me either. Before I put the HD receiver in my truck KINK was in my rotation. It reminded me a bit of Cities 97 in Minneapolis. Now the static and multipath noise on analog-only stations bugs me too much to listen to them at all (unless I'm playing with processing).

I had no clue that this iTunes tagging feature is something that is NOT yet available. The commercials on "KOOL 105.9" make it sound as though one could do this today if one had an iPod and a HD-Radio tuner.

Think of it like the SONIC ads. Lots of people will want it, talk about it, etc...

Then when it hits, people jump on it.

That's the idea, anyway.

The Polk I-Sonic ES2 is not due out until sometime in March. This is the only iTunes tagging receiver listed so far on the hdradio.com and Ibiquity web sites. With no receivers how could you know if the tagging data is being transmitted? ...or how could I know, even.

...Well, as long as this doesn't turn into a repeat of AM Stereo and AMAX: that is, the radio stations promote it, and the receivers are out there. However, the receivers are scarce enough that finding one is more trouble than the overwhelming majority of consumers are willing to put up with.

The first time I've seen/heard an actual "HD" radio was at the Eastport Plaza Radio Shack - I was there while family was checking out the fabric store (gag). Not only did they have an HD radio, it was actually tuned to an HD feed - KNRK-HD2.
Couldn't hear anything, however... another stereo with awful sound on AM was cranked up to KXL, which was broadcasting the Blazer game going on at the time.

Thought there were some promos out there. Whoops! Agreed then Chris!

I like the iTunes bit. Have been in several situations where people, myself included, were having fun grabbing music online, looking at stations play lists, downloading what we heard, related songs, etc...

Great way to enjoy the radio and Internet at the same time. Social too. Works in an office setting well enough also. Lots of people stream now, perfect fit.

I finally talked to Brian Jones at CBS: KVMX is inteed at 100 kW ERP.

As a side benefit to providing album and label information about songs played on their streams, the upgrading of The Radio Experience software for KGON, KNRK, KYCH, KWJJ, and KRSK now means that the name of the CD from which the song is taken (if available) is now displayed on some HD radios.

I've seen it on JVC and Kenwood cart stereos so far.

ch 8 says they have the ONLY HD Studio!!!!correct?what about radio stations?

Thank you, Kent for following up on that! I'd pretty much decided it must be true when someone in Eugene reported improved reception. When is CBS now planning to move to the new antenna? I thought they were going for last August! Thanks again! 62KGW, HD Radio is just a name to make people think of HDTV and equate it to high quality. It doesn't stand for anything and shouldn't be confused with real high definition.

Some have said that the "HD" in HD Radio really stands for "Hybrid Digital," meaning that digital and analog can be transmitted simultaneously, unlike the Digital Radio Mondiale system, which cannot provide an analog signal.

As far as I know, there are no technical specifications or standards for what would consitiute a "HD" radio studio. On the television side, if they can produce video with resolution better than 640x480, they could legitimately call than a "HD Studio."

on coast to coast recentl,the say thesound isymuch better than other raddio programsandthere is mention of its sound quality being excellect and that a cc radio,with it's special speaker is needed to be able to hear it all!!??? correct?cc radio better than hd radio,when tuned to george noory Is Noory in a HD Studio??what nationalshows are NOTdone from HD studios??Limbaugh???Savage??

"HD Radio is just a name to make people think of HDTV and equate it to high quality. It doesn't stand for anything and shouldn't be confused with real high definition."

...........And that is *precisely* why I usually refer to it by some other name, like "Ibiquity Digital Radio" or even simpler yet, the more technically-accurate abbreviation "IBAC" (which also saves time and keystrokes.) Calling it "HD Radio", I think, is just flat-out misleading!!

If it stands for Hily Distorted Radio, then its not really misleading,according to what I am hearing on some high qualityanalog radios!!

"HD Radio" is the marketing name. I have heard the moniker, "hybrid digital", which is a misnomer because if the system went completely to digital transmission, it would still be marketed as "HD Radio". I suspect "hybrid digital" was coined by someone on a message board, who didn't have all the facts, not that I always do but I know what I read.

> I suspect "hybrid digital" was coined by someone on a message board...

That may, very well, have been the case. "HD" in the radio context is then nothing more than marketing guy babble.

With regards to the CC Radio, have you heard the commercials that Dr. Bill Wattenberg does for this product? He states that this radio is specifically designed for listening to spoken-word programs, not music. The bass is intentionally rolled off to enhance the intelligibility of voices.

For what it's worth, Wikipedia links to a screen shot of an e-mail from a HD Radio Alliance spokesperson that states that it means "hybrid digital" (see reference 3):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd_radio#_note-2

Some of the announcers on the HD-2 channels have been heard to say "high definition".

Ibiquity leaves it as an undefined "brand", however. (see wiki link, above).

And, from the Ibiquity site:

"Note: The 'HD' in 'HD Radio' does not mean 'high-definition' or 'hybrid digital'. It is part of iBiquity's brand for its digital radio technology."

It appears that the HD Radio Alliance has created its own new reality. This is not unlike if David Sarnoff had said that "FM" stands for "for morons" when we should have been talking to Edwin Armstrong!

Some stations should break away from that alliance and just try some stuff.

It's a good thing in that some expectations are set, but that's also bad! The expectations are too tame, IMHO.

The HD-2's and such should be a bit edgy right now. Perfect place to try out new ideas, without really putting the core brand at risk.

I notice not only does my receiver now display the name of the CD but KBPS finally lists title and composer.

The KBPS-FM title and Composer info can also be viewed on analog FM radios that have RDS/RBDS.

But Shhhhhh! I am winning a game of "Classical Name That Tune" with my wife... she does not know about this yet.

> It appears that the HD Radio Alliance has created its own new reality. This is not unlike if David
> Sarnoff had said that "FM" stands for "for morons" when we should have been talking to Edwin Armstrong!

Welcome to the world of the Marketing Guys. They are professional BSers. Remember, after WWII, Sarnoff and his marketing guys wanted people to buy TVs. Sooo, let's get that disruptive Armstrong guy out of the way and rip him off while we're at it by using his technology to transmit the sound for the new television medium*. That will show him!

* I don't know how the decision was made to use FM sound for televison, so please nobody take this as a serious allegation of a conspiracy.

In the long run, the RCA supported move of the FM band from 42-50mhz* (8mhz) to 88-108mhz (20mhz) was beneficial to the FM band, even though it was a BIG setback at the time, and perhaps lead to Armstrongs death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Armstrong

Little TV use was made of the 42-50 mhz spectrum...it is rare to find a vintage TV set with channel 1.

*may be incorrect on wiki... 42-49 mhz is the range observed on most vintage "45mhz" FM radios.

The Channel 1 history article and frequency table on Wikipedia are interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_1

I can't figure out the Channel 1/FM Broadcast overlap issue either. Does this mean that between 1946 and 1948, 44-48 MHz was shared between these two services? I guess that is possible because there were so few Channel 1 television stations and FM broadcasters back then. Also, note that in 1946, New York City's NBC station on channel 1 was re-assigned to Channel 4, possibly because there were too many FM stations in that market to fit them all into 42-44 MHz.

The channel 1 stuff also surprises me in that 6MHz in that part of the spectrum represents a bandwidth of about 13%. Somehow, back then, engineers were able to figure out how to build matching networks and antennas that worked properly over this wide a range of frequencies.

According to a ham friend, *no* TV station ever transmitted on the 1946-1948 (44-50mhz) channel 1. I don't know where he got this, but his "track record" on this sort of information is very good.

13% bandwidth required for channel 1 would seem to be difficult, but "bat wing" antennas (for example) have a decent bandwidth. Two transmitters (one for video, the other for audio) would have been combined into a single output, so perhaps the matching requirements for each were less difficult.

Chrisweiss posted:

"You'll see HD receivers under $100 before CBS turns on a single digital carrier in Portland."

http://www.amazon.com/Radiosophy-HD100-Digital-Radio-Receiver/dp/B000W2Z5M4/ref= pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204592230&sr=8-2

OK, I'm ready... CBS?

..did I mention the part about the flying pigs and the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

Wouldn't that actually be 2 horsemen matrixed into 4 channels? I'm glad to see my Armstrong reference wasn't lost on anyone. By the way, I recently purchased a DVD copy of "Empire of the Air", which goes into great detail about Armstrong, Sarnoff and Lee DeForest.

Thanks for the reference, I just ordered a copy from Amazon... oh, oh gotta go now and get those darn pigs off the roof!

HD recievers will be under 100 dollars on Dec 21 2012. A pale rider on a pale horse indeed !

Anyone else notice the horrible echo on their HD radio when KOPB goes from analog to digital?

I drive to work in a fairly fringe area and because of the delay not being in sync I can't listen to it at all. Yuck!

Yep, it sounds like they need to tweek the analog delay just a bit...can you lock your radio into "analog only" and endure the multipath ? How about AM 550 (KOAC)?

At least they are close... KBOO and KMHD are still about 7 seconds off!

I hear the echo too, but I wouldn't call it unlistenable... more like annoying.

Where can I purchase an HD table radio in Eugene?

Radio Shack, Walmart, Best Buy etc.

> How about AM 550 (KOAC)?

There was an article linked from another thread on this board that stated that the antenna system currently in use at KOAC was tested and found to be incompatible with IBOC. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of detail given on why IBOC can't be transmitted from this antenna system.

Yep, I think that the *very* old "shunt fed" directional antenna/feed system does not have the bandwidth required for HD. (nice pictures of the site however)

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2007/site-070223.html

In the suggestion above about trying 550 (KOAC), I was thinking that 550 could provide an "IBOC free" source of the same program to avoid the switching echo (if the radio could not be locked to KOPB analog only) during his commute through the fringe area. (sorry for the confusion...I should have provided more detail)

The KOPB echo seems to be greatly reduced today.

We have Turned on our HD Exciter on KKNX Today. Ted Hicks is still tweaking things. The signal is locking and it is sounding really good in HD. Let me know what you are hearing.

Thanks

Good going. It sounds good on my car radio around Eugene/Springfield. Some tweaking might be needed.

Great! The first AM HD in Eugene! Will you try HD at night... that would be interesting as the power would only be 1.7 watts (or are the rules different for AM HD power ratio, analog/HD ? )

It is HD at this moment. Sounds (on an analog tuner) like they are doing it 24 hrs.

It could be just my imagination but K103 HD1 has sounded much better the last few days! Also, somewhat off topic, I heard 2 songs in a row on there that 15 years ago, could have qualified as hard rock! One was "Far Away". I think it's by Nickleback and the other was by Aerosmith. It's the one from Armageddon. Why is the last 25 years on short-term memory?

This may have been addressed before but I just heard KPPT in HD. They have their AM on the HD2.

Neither feed sounded very good. the main HD sounded like they left the analog HF preemphasis on. very shrill.

the HD2 sounded like an MP3 feed. lofi.

Other than that it was nice having HD on the coast, no multipath solid reception for quite a ways.

I noticed it kept dropping out in Lincoln City, something that NEVER happens driving around the Portland area. I'd say something isn't just right.

The latest official iBiquity blurb:
-----------------------------------

Dear Friends and Colleagues,
HD Radio™ technology’s success at the Consumer Electronics Show in January has been reflected throughout the first quarter of 2008.Here’s the HD Radio buzz. Click on the links to get the full stories:The iTunes® Tagging capable Polk I-Sonic® Entertainment System 2 is currently available in 170 Apple stores across the country and will be available at other retailers shortly. Other HD Radio products with iTunes Tagging are anticipated to be coming to the market in second quarter.Mercedes announced that HD Radio technology will be available in several of its vehicles.
Yamaha announced the first component unit with an MSRP under $1,000, increasing HD Radio technology’s presence across a majority of radio categories.
As the Platinum sponsor of the Mobile Electronics Retailers Association’s annual Knowledgefest, HD Radio technology was showcased at six partner booths around the show floor, as well as at the “Town Meeting” and several training sessions. The HD Radio booth featured a tricked out Nissan Frontier with an Alpine iDA-X100 head unit and a TUA-T550HD HD Radio tuner with iTunes Tagging.HD Radio stations highlighted the technology at the Detroit, Chicago and New York Autoshows.
Media coverage continues strong, with articles in such publications as Twice, CNet.com, Gizmodo, EnadgetHD, Audioholics Magazine, Inside Radio, Radio World, Electronista, A/V Revolution, Radio Business Report, Radio World and others.
Today, 1,651 HD Radio stations are on the air in the US, offering more than 800 new HD2 or HD3 multicast channels. Over 60 unique SKUs are available in more than 10,000 stores and online, including Apple Stores, Best Buy, Circuit City, Crutchfield, RadioShack, Target and Wal-Mart.Factory-installed HD Radio receivers are available in BMWs and MINIs. Hyundai’s Genesis, which will be at dealerships this summer, will include HD Radio technology as a factory-installed standard feature. Ford, Jaguar and Volvo have announced that HD Radio technology will be a factory-installed standard feature in their 2009 models.Additionally, Ford has announced an accessory program with Peripheral and its dealers for a dealer-installed HD Radio/iPod system.
I look forward to seeing many of you in Las Vegas for NAB 2008. Visit us at Booth N6724. Stay tuned for more news as 2008 unfolds.Regards,
Bob Struble
President & CEO
iBiquity Digital

I look forward to the HD AM noise being elimanated BoB!!!thanks much!!!