Did anyone else hear the news about the protests that were staged against the Church of Scientology on Sunday? They took place in numerous cities around the world, including Portland. The protests were regarding the tactics that the church uses against people who try to "expose" the organization. Due to an experience that I had some years ago, I think that there is some truth to the point that the protesters were trying to get across.

I've been following that.

For a very revealing look, google operation clambake.

Some info here:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/%22Anonymous%22_plans_to_protest_Church_of_Scientolo gy_on_February_10

From /.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=449724&cid=22385678

Here's the video link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nO_kcUCQSl8

[full posting deleted --follow the link]

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/index.html

Was doing some reading this evening... WOW!

Just as nutty as the other fake religions. Protest them all I say.

IIRC, the Church of Scientology's HQ is in Clearwater, FL.

When I lived in Tampa (1980 to 1983) there were several times when stuff would pop up in the newspaper about them.

I don't remember exactly what all of it was or the details, I just remember there being shady property deals and people going missing after speaking out about the "Church".

By all definitions of a cult, they fit.

On of the protest photos from the "anonymous" protests link above sums the criticisms up very well: A person is holding a sign that reads, "Faith should be free." People shouldn't have to pay exorbitant fees to reach "enlightenment," nor should religious organizations micromanage aspects of their members' lives. I am now expecting a knock at the door for posting this!

There is a fool born every minute and two to take them.

Skybill, where did you work in Tampa.

I was there 78-81

In this country we have freedom of relegion, that is the right to worship or not worship as anyone sees fit.

If you don't loke Scientology, don't join or contribute to it. Same with Babtist, Catholic or Wiccen.

The church of Scientology has a residential 1 to 12 grade school just outside of Sheridan called The Delphian School to train your young ones if you're so inclinded.

Radioblogman, I worked for Westside Communications (a paging company). Our office was located at Spruce and Dale Mabry just north of Dale Mabry and I-275.

I don't know if it is still there or not, but we put up a 200' Rohn 80 tower there.

Where did you work?

Tampa Tribune as a copy editor before going into radio support

Any cult claiming to be a religion that previously did not exist should have to be around for a lot longer than the Scientologists to get exempt status from the IRS, otherwise the door is open to just about everyone.

We can form the PDXRadiologists ... no, too close to the medical specialty .. how about PDXbroadcastologists ... we can meet every February 8 to celebrate the death of radio. And we can file for IRS exempt status. We can collect dues, invest them, and someday buy all the licenses that come to auction by outbidding whomever owns Clear Channel at the time.

Father Brown, Brother Radioblogman will join you. Can I have an Amen?

I'm in too! Amen Brothers!

Thy ideas of idolatry to the fallen alter of True Radio is pleasing, and with much merit; but if in thy thoughts and actions one must begin to scribe in these threads before us in the manner that thou doest read at this moment, it would be most vexing and laborious. Lo, how I would pray for even the nonsensical musings of djfrresh if this were to be the future of our prose! Think twice then upon your wishing. And peace be to those who stand against the Satan of Conglomeration!

I would predict that the first schism in the PDXbroadcastologist faith would be whether one should be celebrating or mourning on Feb. 8.

There could be other schisms as well:

Should voice tracking be considered a sin? Is it a deadly sin?

Is discontinuing AM Stereo operations a virtue? Or, is it sinful? Is it a deadly sin?

Oh heck, we can have an old testament and a new testament.

In the beginning there was only the wave and all was good in the world.

Everything was beautiful, if one were to only just look with naked eyes and listen with naked ears.

Each wave, undivided in all but time and presence from the others brought the true form of the world to us, limited only by our will to perceive and our ability to appreciate.

All of man shared in this glory, and it was harmonious.

....

Then came the first bit! Brutal in form, with nearly all the waves lumped together, without form or character into a simple either, or proposition!

The cry, "Blasphemy!" was heard, but the bits came and came, endless, harsh, unyielding to natural sensibilities. Their raw power was not to be denied! Neither was their simple and inelegant nature.
...

And then the world fell into madness as man embraced the bit, unaware of his folly.

Natural beauty was lost, only to be replaced with the mere perception of beauty! Thousands cried, "What have we lost?" They were silenced as old men are often silenced, the mature world thinking they have moved past the bounty of their experience.

A new breed was born then, bringing with them all manner of witchery, voodoo, and illusions!

These tricksters and their bits wove their wiles throughout the spectrum! Bits everywhere, noise to all but those who pay pence to see through new eyes and hear through new ears.

Despite the world being there for all to see and experience for naught, these bit weavers promised more, for a price! And men paid.

Bits, a mere proxy to the natural world, bleed forth, impure, yet compelling!

Slowly we all began to live via proxy, forgetting the real and embracing the unreal --the altered!

And our souls were lost...

...

There will come a time of redemption!

Bits, backed by the less than pure nature of man will color the world grey --dim, unappealing. Troubled souls will seek a greater truth --that which lies between the bits!

There is a path for those who seek enlightenment! Shed those false eyes and ears, return to the world and it's natural beauty and 'ye soul can yet be saved.

All you need to is look, listen, experience and share.

This thread is very scary, informative and best of all, funny! Thank you all!

Brethren, I think that we should start by putting a big temple out on the soon to be vacated Burden property. :0)

"In this country we have freedom of relegion, that is the right to worship or not worship as anyone sees fit. "

The issue with COS is that they are *not* a religion in any conventional sense. They have no diety (other than the demigod of L. Ron), worship nothing (other than money or perhaps celebrity), and their only beliefs read more like a scifi novel than religious doctrine. They don't even have churches, chapels or temples... they have "Celebrity Centers".

In fact, the COS states that you are free to continue following the religion of your choice *after* becoming a Scientologist- no conversion required.

They are a very-much FOR-profit "self-help" business masquerading as a religion for tax purposes.

When I was a wayward youth, my bored friends and I once went to the COS for their "free personality test". While we were waiting for our tests to be "graded", they put us in a small back room to watch some COS propaganda film.

While we were in there one of my friends started "investigating" some documents stored there, including a memo from the "church" organization to the local centers (which were referred to as "stores"), pushing them to bring in more people and how to extract more money from them. It even referred to the potential new Scientologists using the derisive carny term of "marks". It showed no interest in helping these people, only getting them to spend as much money as possible on books, seminars and auditing.

Oh how I wish he/we had kept those documents, but even then we knew that the COS was one scary organization, and he burned them soon after.

You know I'm just not that afraid of much. Not a brag, just fact. We people have this incredible ability to just deal, which properly managed, really takes a lot of fear away.

I FEAR THESE GUYS, TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY.

Won't even enter a center, worried about driving past one. The psychoanalyst in me really, really wants to go take their goofy test and just hammer them cold, but... I'm worried about the implications of being "on the radar" --noted as hostile, or something worse.

It's probably a good idea you guys tossed what you did. Who knows what could have happened?

The thing that drives the fear is the combination of extreme financial and psychological duress being applied, with the implied reward of one being superior, able to solve problems, have powers, etc...

That's EXTREMELY difficult to walk away from. Call Hubbard what you want, but he absolutely just nailed it, where creating aggressive cults with a sincere interest in remaining viable down to nearly the last members.

If a person has bought in, they must surrender their very self image to get out --and accept a greatly diminished one, and deal with the implications of being an outcast, while knowing the mindset of those they must then deal with!

Normally, when one redefines what is and what is not rational thought, you get various manifestations like those seen in the various religions. Some people are able to compartmentalize it in a healthy way, others just integrate it into their reasoning as it brings answers and helps with value judgments. Some get a little carried away with it, but throughout, the normal human boundaries largely remain --so does pretty normal empathy.

With this, it's pretty damn ugly. If one buys into the training and goes through the pain, physical, mental, financial, social, they are really committed! The resulting value judgements are on par with those made by the most dangerous sociopaths.

The basic value of people is changed and with it comes this false empathy. Nasty, scary stuff.

Kudos to those who got out. I absolutely know that's just not easy at all.

You could just substitute the word Mormon for Scientologist. Same deal.

Sorry 'Merk, but you're talking out the wrong orifice there.

I'm no fan of the LDS church, but they are IN NO WAY in the same league as the COS when it comes to dirty tricks, deceit and outright criminal activity.

If you try to leave the Mormon church, the worst you have to fear from the Mormons is having them come to your door with a plate of cookies. With the COS you may wind up locked in a reeducation camp or worse.

Actually, Tadc, in their early days they were more like the Rashneeshees (sorry for the spelling) in Eastern Oregon. I was in Tampa when they started taking over Clearwater with dirty politics and threats. That was long before they got guys like Tom Cruise to make them seem more legitimate. They are a cult more than they are a religion.

Sorry Tadc, I stand by my opinion. It's a lot more than a plate of cookies...you forgot the the Jello™! (Usually Lime flavor with shredded carrots and raisins).

You also forget the huge plate of anti-depressants for the perfect housewives. UT has (had?) the highest Anti-D and tranquilizer use in the US. Same with sugar and hairspray. And of course, the aforementioned Jello.

Seriously I still think MK's post is spot-on and applies for LDS, maybe not to the same awful extreme as COS, but it is difficult to leave and they do sumbmit/sacrifice a lot of their self-image and self-expression, especially in vocalizing any doubts. It is definitely not easy to leave, especially in the Mecca of UT. I've also heard that it's very different, much less pressure, spying, control and it's easier to leave here in OR.

Like Missing_kskd, I have been too chicken to step inside the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centers for fear of the manipulative techniques that might be used there. The brush that I had with the Scientologists went like this:

I helped to produce a cable access show for United States Atheists (ok, feel free to call that a cult and snicker for my hypocrisy), and one episode of the show was an expose on some of the doctrines of and techniques used by Scientology. Until former Scientologists started going to the media and writing about their experiences on the Internet, some of these doctrinal teachings were only known by high-level Scientologists who had paid big money to the church for many sessions of "auditing" and enlightenment. Naturally, the Scientologists don't like to see these teachings presented for free, and they certainly don't like to see people airing out the church's dirty laundry.

The week after the Scientology episode played on Portland Cable Access, a representative from the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre Portland showed up at the U.S. Atheists' meeting. Though she maintained a professional demeanor, it was easy to tell that she was not amused. She stated that the creator of the xenu.net Website that had been referenced on the show was a "lying sack of shit," and if memory serves me correctly, she hinted that some of the things said on the cable access program could be grounds for a slander suit. She then left her card and said something like, "I came out to your meeting, so you should come down to our Celebrity Centre and see what we're really all about."

Here's a very interesting development:

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/02/27/l-ron-hubbard-plagia.html#comments

Did L Ron plagiarize Scientology?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351287,00.html

Star Exits Scientology

Ruggedly handsome actor Jason Beghe was best man at the wedding of "X Files" star David Duchovny (his childhood pal) and actress Tea Leoni. In 1998, he starred as Demi Moore’s love interest in “G.I. Jane.” He’s been featured in numerous TV dramas such as 'Criminal Minds,' 'Numb3rs', and 'CSI.'

In 2005, Beghe appeared in promotional spots for the Church of Scientology.

But now Beghe has escaped the Church after taking courses since 1994. He’s made a video that’s up on YouTube.

This is what he has to say:

“Scientology is destructive and a rip off.”

He also says: “It’s very, very dangerous for your spiritual, psychological, mental, emotional health and evolution. I think it stunts your evolution. If Scientology is real, then something’s f——ed up.”

You can see from the video that Beghe does not mince words. But his refreshing candor about the religion he joined in 1994 should shake the Celebrity Center to its core.

“It ain’t deliverin’ what it’s promised. It sure has not. “

The video is billed as a three-minute teaser to a longer interview with Beghe that’s on its way. But the short video packs a powerful punch. Beghe still uses a lot of Scientology lingo like “OT” and “clear.” Still, it’s quite easy to understand the point he’s making. After 14 years and a tremendous amount of money, he’s seeing Scientology in a different light.

Beghe has completed so many courses that he’s considered a top Scientologist, or “OT 5”—similar to Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kirstie Alley. But Beghe reveals: “The further up the bridge the worse you get.”

He adds: “I don’t have an agenda. I’m just trying to help. I have the luxury of having gotten into Scientology and after having been in it, been out. And that’s a perspective that people who are still in and not out do not have.”

More to come…

Interesting . . .

Scientology, FLDS, LDS, Seventh Day Adventists, Jevohah's, Baptists....all the same crap, different brand.

Right, Mr. Ham-Fisted.

That's like saying "Hemlock, potatoes, tomatoes, rutabegas. All plants...all the same thing."

Just because some are poison doesn't mean you go without the others.

The key is if a religion needs more than the Bible. If one is required to buy into an 'extra' book, or only their specific translation to 'understand' their take on God's Word, then it's a cult.

These include Mormonism, various forms of Catholicism and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Herb

No. That's not the same. Vitalogy's examples were of religions. They all have the same ultimate goal. Plants don't.

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)

I rest my case.

Apology accepted, Herb.

A more correct analogy would be: poison oak, poison ivy, stinging nettle, blackberry bushes, and rose bushes....all plants, some beautiful, but all capable of causing pain and irritation and may require medical help.

"The key is if a religion needs more than the Bible. If one is required to buy into an 'extra' book, or only their specific translation to 'understand' their take on God's Word, then it's a cult.

These include Mormonism, various forms of Catholicism and Jehovah's Witnesses. "

Of course, using that criteria, from the Hebrew perspective, all of Catholicism relies on a book that came after The Bible, i.e. The New Testament. Now, I myself, do not agree with Herb's above mentioned tenet. Clearly, Catholicism is a religion, not a cult, however it does rely on a volume penned thousands of years after The Bible/Old Testament. What reason has Christianity that allows its add on book to be included as part of The Bible but no one else's? Mass adoption. (like that play on words?) So, you see, Herbie, you can't just make dumb statements like that in a world that is not owned by any one religion and expect to get any credibility.

So , Muslums are a cult? Jews use a bible and the Torah, does that make them a cult?

Old Testament = Torah = Hebrew Bible

One document.

"...Catholicism is a religion, not a cult..."

Read what I wrote.

"...various forms of Catholicism..."

Herb

Herb, God writes in many languages and many books. If you cannot accept that, then you are the one in a cult.

"Read what I wrote.

"...various forms of Catholicism..."

You avoided the point, Herbie. Using your analysis, your tenet, ALL of Christianity uses a book that Jews may consider to be an add on to the original Bible. The key difference here is that most of us are tolerant people, YOU ARE NOT. Intolerance is YOUR defect, not the defect of those around you that wish to allow others to believe what they want. YOU have the propensity to
wag your tail and say "G-d will punish you" for thinking/saying that like some little kid in Sunday school. Herb, grow up.

So, what is the difference between a religion and a cult? I like the Michael Shermer definition: The difference between a religion and a cult is one hundred years. If a belief system or a movement is less than one hundred years old, then it is considered a cult. If it manages to last for a hundred years, it will have gained enough mainstream acceptance that it is generally considered not to be a cult.

They're all cults. Some have just been around longer.

COS doesn't even qualify as a cult. It's just a giant con... posing as a church for tax purposes. There's no "religion" at all.

"...The key difference here is that most of us are tolerant people, YOU ARE NOT."

Actually, there is a big difference between tolerance and acceptance.

I'm plenty tolerant and believe everyone has a right to their opinion. I simply believe Jesus over those who deny Him. That's what gets deniers so upset.

Like C.S. Lewis stated, Christ is either who He said He is, or a fraud. There's no PC middle ground. Everyone is free to deny Him. But let's not change what He said:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

That closes the door to the syncretic view that blends religions whilst saying they're all the path to Heaven. Jesus said they're NOT. There is ONE way, and it is through Him. In this way, the words of Jesus are very INTOLERANT. It is a badge of honour to be hated for believing our Saviour.

Herb

There are many ways to the truth. Hopefully someday, Herb, you will realize that.

Herb in no way does anyone hate you for believing in Jesus. You are opposed for attacking those who doe not hold your strong beliefs or support your lack of tolerance other religions.

Herb in no way does anyone hate you for believing in Jesus.

This is true but it seems that Herb wants EVERYONE to think his way and his way ONLY!
The "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" thing is old and moldy Herb.

Er, ah, make that 'mouldy.'

Herb

Like Honour instead of Honor?

By jove, you've got it.

Herb

Darn socialists!

What if Eve Fuller and Larry Bohnsack are Scientologists?

Oh, the horror!

But in Herb's book, it's a lot better than being gay or pro-choice. Can you imagine if they were all three? It could KILL him.

"What if Eve Fuller and Larry Bohnsack are Scientologists?"

There's always hope when it comes to Eve & Larry.

Herb

heh-heh, heh-heh, you said Bohnsack.

Yeah. huh.huh- it's a sack!