Well my automobile is about to be 10. Having had so few problems with it, I was not surprised when the shop (the best in Portland for my kind of car) told me I had "suspension issues" as well as the need for new rear brakes (they were originals), some seals in the transmission control arm interface and some of the plastic parts around the radiator were near failure. Replacing control and trailing arm bushings and seals are not the kind of DIY I am ready to tackle on my own ... in fact without a lift the chassis rides so close to the ground you can't easily see any of this stuff in the everyday man's garage and even if you put it up on stands and poke around with a drop light you might miss some of the points of wear. I guess that's why the mechanics go through training.

In any event, the mileage on my car is low, but 10 years is 10 years ...

The bottom line over all, not counting tires and oil,
is that maintenance has cost about 11% of purchase price over
this near 10 year period.

Sounds reasonable to me. According to my research on the internet, this actually is low but so is my total mileage.

What do you think?

In the 60's or 70's or earlier, a 10 year old car would be no problem. But its very difficult yo do your own maintenance on cars built from the mid 80's and up.

Plus they have so much smog/computer controlled equipment, I don't see the advantage of trying to keep a modern car over 10 years on the road.

i drive a 89 nissan sentra 60 miles a day round trip ,still get 34 to the gallon spend maybe a couple hundred bucks a year to fix and maintain, way cheaper then a new car

Our mini van is 12 years old. The age of my son. Got 2 months after he was born.

We have received free lifetime oild and lube. About 2 years after we bought the van the dealership stopped that program. We have proabably saved $4-5 thousand dollars in that time.

We recently had 2 new engine mounts and 1 transmmission mount replaced. Now the van runs "tighter." However with the new transmission mount I feel like I have a new tiger under the hood. I have a hard idle that really purrs loudly.

Well, I still drive the '87 Bronco. (Yup, the one with the 8 track, the racing stripes and the giant Fox decal on the back. ;o) Already over 20 years old, but still gets me from place to place.

Had to have the carbuerator replaced a few months ago. I don't really know that much about it (I am a mountain bike mechanic not a truck mechanic!) other than at times, it took me more than five minutes just to get the engine to finally turn over. It cost me $800 to have done. And it was right after Thanksgiving last year...........

Although she does run way better now and I can take her to Goldendale without stalling out at least by the time I make it to Skamania!

Unless you get stuck paying dealership labor rates to replace a gold-plated part such as an automatic transmission(and sometimes even then) or you have a real lemon, it's almost always cheaper to fix it than buy new. That $5k depreciation hit you take when you drive the new car off the lot will pay for a LOT of maintenance on the old car, not to mention finance charges.

But that doesn't take into account the difficult-to-quantify benefit of "having a new car". That varies from person to person.

As for computer equipment making it difficult to do your own maintenance, that's a load. It's not harder, it's just different.

Life is short and I believe the following:

1. One should have a nice house to live in, as you spend a lot of time in it, and should enjoy it. It also makes for a good long term investment and a place to create memories.

2. You should have a nice bed to sleep in. 1/3 of your life is spent resting in it, so spend good money to have a good bed.

3. You should have a nice car to drive that you will enjoy and are proud of, because we all spend a lot of time in our cars.

So, while driving a used car may be cheaper, driving a nice newer car certainly gives me a slight chub, which is worth the extra money!

I agree, but times are tough.

My advice is to live small right now. Lots of unknowns. If things get really ugly, which they could, owning a used car that's not much trouble is way better than a newer one that costs regularly each month.

I've an 89 Corolla. 35 MPG average, 40+, if I'm careful. It's got 260K, runs like a top, does not leak. Maint is about $300 to $500 / year. Insurance is dirt cheap.

Dollar per mile, there is no beating it.

I spent on the nice bed, no monthly nut to worry about. Kids are gonna help with the house, so we can keep that.

Rather than buy up, we are gonna save, heal, and reconsider options in 5 years when maybe things are better / through the worst, and with some money to work with.

BTW: The occasional car rental, for very long trips, entertaining others, etc... is generally money well spent. It's an option if you need that occasional feel good that Vitalogy is talking about.

Us? We have found being able to do things is worth more than owning nice things. YMMV.

Oh, I don't think 80's cars are all that hard to work on. They do have computers, but they are also modular. It's just another piece that either works or it doesn't.

Through the 80's sensor requirements were low, so those things are robust and inexpensive to maintain.

Ends up being a balance between doing it all yourself, or mixing it up. I ended up getting to know a great mechanic. For maint, we talk and plan. I do some, he does some. Win-win.

For straight up problems, I look it over. Either it's worth it to spend the time, or it isn't. If it isn't, or is just too difficult, I hand that part over to him and it's easy cheezy.

The key in that is the core power train stuff. If that's solid, chances are you can do a lot of the minor things. That's water pump, belts, alternator, cooling bits, fans, brakes, etc...

Let your mechanic handle harder things, timing belts, computer, heads, etc...

Plan for some dollars every year, let the mechanic know what you are doing and that you want to just drive the car. If you have a good one, he will lay out the bigger items to be done for prevention, leaving the little stuff to you.

Risk is fairly low, and that's another key to the older car.

I'd much rather continue to ride around in a 1998 M3 that just cost me $3k as opposed to selling it as is for about $11k and riding around in a new ... wait, you can't get anything new for $11k can you?

I think it comes down to whether you consider your wheels just a means of transportation or if you take some kind of pride in your ride. I've had 3 cars over 10 years. The other two nickel and dimed me every year after their 5th birthday. They looked old, they drove old, and clearly were not in the same class as the precision machine I have now. And they definitely cost me more than 1% of their purchase price in the first decade of use.

Thanks for all the comments, guys. You definitely get what you pay for.

You've got an M3?

Keep that car. It's extremely reliable, fun to drive, and there are plenty of people, who understand that car and can appreciate one wanting to just drive it.

Plus, we chicks dig it.

Or you can just trade me the M3 for the Vega, it's super-easy to work on (so I hear).

If it works, why argue with success? Keep the old car.

Mine is a used 1999. I'm not even thinking of trading it in. My last car I drove for over 10 years and it was used. I've never purchased a new car.

If you took the $'s spent on a car payment every month (and some are whoppers, ask me how I know!!!) you could do a lot of maintenance on an older vehicle.

We have 4 Toyota's with a combined mileage of over 600K.

The only new one is my wife's 2004 Tundra Double Cab. (refer to my comment in ( )'s above!) It has 46K+ on it and is a great vehicle. 15 mpg so it's fairly expensive to drive. We bought it new.

My 1989 Land Cruiser has 290K on it. I just rebuilt the tranny and transfer case myself, still cost me about $2000, but was still about $3000 cheaper than if I took it to a shop. It gets 8-9 mpg do I don't drive it a lot! I bought it used with 256K on the clock for $3400.

My son drives a 1987 Toyota Tercel station wagon. We bought it new, in 1987, for $9990. We've put about $1500 in it since new. Has about 155K+ on it and still gets 30+ mpg. I tease him by asking "How many of your friends are driving the car that they came home from the hospital in?" My wife was driving this car home from work in Aug of 2001 and someone broadsided her. The insurance company totaled it, paid us $2700 for it, we bought it back for $175 and are still driving it! Doesn't look pretty, but runs fine.

My daughter drives a 1991 Celica. Has about 125K on it and it was purchased used. We've not put any money other than front brake pads and a tune up, both of which I did myself, since we bought it 18 months ago. It gets about 22 mpg.

So I guess the bottom line is; It depends on your perspective whether you want to put money into a used car for maintenance or pay a bunch of interest to a bank on a new(er) vehicle.

I don't honestly know if I'll ever buy another new vehicle.


Missing said: I've an 89 Corolla. 35 MPG average, 40+, if I'm careful. It's got 260K, runs like a top, does not leak. Maint is about $300 to $500 / year.

That's because it's a Toyota!!

The Vega is easy to work on. The downside is you are gonna have to work on it!

Yup, like I said before in this forum, an engine swap in a few hours. Transmission is a piece o' cake to swap -- weighs next to nothing, and the rear axle? Heh, you can lift it with one hand.

Missing...Living small. I couldn't agree more.

We've had our best year as a business and we have no plans of "moving" up. We love our little bungalow and continue with it's improvements. Paint job coming this year.

Vita you are so right about the house and bed. And we feel we've done that.

We have bought two new vehicles in the past 16 years. But for practical reasons. Paid them both off early. I'm not a person who is caught in the machine I drive. Make it dependable and comfy and I'm fine.

Lovin' living in an area where I can walk or ride my bike. Both our kids walk to school now and the wife and I take a 3 mile walk almost every morning to the PO Box.

My driving miles have come way down over the past few years. I'd like to get another 2 years out of the vehicle if possible.

Well, not entirely happy about it, but I really do think that's my issue.

Worked hard, and got blown out. That takes time to deal with. By itself, I think it would not be as important. Adding in our leaders spending way too much of our money and structuring the rules of business in a way that permits the level of exploitation we've seen and that's just a hard pill.

That wealth that has left will have to be paid back, or we are gonna scale down as a nation.

Either way, living small is the out.

Anyway, the adjustment really boils down to what one enjoys --and it means pulling the family together. The kids are older, trying to build, go to school, etc...

We've started planning on how to do that and do it while keeping each other strong as much as is possible. I think it's gonna come out ok.

And that's really the priority when all the issues of what one has, does not, and other expectations are sorted out.

Always good to re-evaluate goals. They change. Focus changes. Part of personal growth we all either choose to deal with or not.

It's all in the choices when the rock crashes through the roof.

It's almost always financially smarter to repair than replace. even a newer car. If a 10 year old car needs a brand new engine and tranny (for example), it might cost you $5000 to have it done, but you then have a brand new drive train that should go another 10 years. The catch is that you will never see that $5K back from the market - you'll have to drive the value out of it. So fix it, but be prepared to be married to that vehicle for awhile longer.

I'm getting ready to do an engine rebuild on my '67 Dart. The slant six is closing in on 200,000 miles and there is some bottom end rod knock, though it still runs very well. Though it is over 40 years old I love the car and would not mind driving it another 10 years. I just sprang for some new repro arm rests, $80 for the set but the car is a keeper. I wouldn't know what to do with a new car (though my wife drives a '99). My teenage kids absolutely hate the car (beige, 4-door, bo-ring!) but are starting to talk about the kind of car they would like to own, and '60s Mustangs keep getting talked about. I guess I am rubbing off on them a little...

Fun comparison:

Compare a car as it ages to that of a man as he ages.

Becomes slow to accelerate, starts making funny noises, the exhaust can become quite noxious, often needs to be push started, and you tend to let the maintenance slide.

Sheesh DT, stop talking about my Bus like that!

If the muffler rattles then ease up on the gas!

"It's almost always financially smarter to repair than replace. even a newer car."

Well, for some cars you shouldn't fix expensive ticket items -- engines and automatic transmissions -- on vehicles like Hyundais and Geos . . .

Also consider the market values -- for instance excellent running late 80's Chev and GMC Burbs are going for 10 cents on the dollar -- so before you repair that tranny in YOUR Burb, spend considerably less than that on another Burb instead.

And finally, some cars you need to dump BEFORE you get that expensive $5000 tranny repair bill -- early Ford Explorers come to mind, Go to auto auctions and you'll find decent looking Explorers with their drivetrain components in the back seat, disassembled.

They didn't get the nickname "Ford Exploders" for nothing! Their right on par with the Taurus and Sable.

Oh yeah. I really just can't stand driving any of those cars.

What's with the goofy Ford steering in those things? IMHO, that feedback scheme is actually dangerous. Hard to get a perception of the road and what the car is actually doing!

Like the Crown Vic though.

Edselehr, I'll bet you are. There is also a trend with this crowd of kids.

Retro is pretty cool to a lot of them. Politically, I think it's tied to past times being better than the ones they are living right now. Violence, gangs, economics, heated ideological divides, lots of aggressive competition for their mindshare, etc...

Simpler is sometimes good.

Met several teens driving Detroit steel, wielding a blackberry and with 70's & 80's Rock in their play lists. Lots of them like the older cars --and it's a pure style thing.

IMHO, there are few cars that stand up to the 60's Mustang. They could pick far worse!

"IMHO, there are few cars that stand up to the 60's Mustang. They could pick far worse!"

But when you buy a '60s Mustang you are paying a premium for popularity. If I could get them into a Falcon or Comet of the same vintage, they are getting all the mechanical benefits of the 'stang for 1/4 the cost. And though the styling of the Mustang is iconic, I find it a bit cliche'. I love driving less popular brands. They are more unique but just as easy (or hard, based on your perspective) to keep them on the road.

Skeptical, you make a good point about major repairs. I should clarify: If you have a fairly new vehicle, you would be financially better off to repair it than to replace it. We have been trained well by advertising and corporations to be devoted consumers, and that a 10-year old car is a piece of junk that is unreliable and must be replaced. It's a lie, unless you beat your cars to hell. My dad replaced his beautiful 1995 Buick in 2004 with a new Buick because it was getting old and he was getting nervous about a flutter in the automatic's shifting. Paid $24,000 for the 2004 and got $3000 trade-in on the 1995. The 2004 has less options and actually doesn't drive quite as well, and my dad continues to kick himself for not keeping the 1995.

With cars about 20 years old, Skeptical is right again. It's more cost-effective to look around for a better-preserved example than to pour money into the one you have. But when you get to cars 40+ years old (like the stuff I tend to drive) you're much more likely to have to give it a complete going through, even if it hasn't been driven much. Sometimes because it hasn't been driven much.

"IMHO, that feedback scheme is actually dangerous. Hard to get a perception of the road and what the car is actually doing!"

You should drive a '63 Chrysler New Yorker -- Oil tankers have more precise steering (and probably better brakes)!