Bezerkley is at it again. Bezerkley would be a good "first strike" for terrorists. Wipe it off the map!

Damn glad I don't live anywhere near that pinko place.

I think they Marines should file a lawsuit for discrimination. They are like any other business when it comes to renting or buying a storefront.

Tie up ALL of Bezerkley's resources in court for a long time and bankrupt (cash wise, they are already morally bankrupt) the city!

BERKELEY, Calif. — Local officials in this liberal city say it's time for the U.S. Marines to move out.

The City Council has voted to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests."

The measure passed this week by a vote of 8-1.

The council also voted to explore enforcing a city anti-discrimination law, focusing on the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

In a separate item, the council voted, also 8-1, to give protest group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.

Marine Capt. Richard Lund of the recruiting office declined comment on the council action.

The recruiting office opened in Berkeley about a year ago, operating quietly until about four months ago when Code Pink began regular sidewalk protests.

"I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates.

Code Pink is circulating petitions to get a measure on the ballot in November making it more difficult to open military recruiting offices in Berkeley if they are near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

Some employees and business owners aren't happy with the weekly protests.

"My husband's business is right upstairs, and this (protesting) is bordering on harassment," Dori Schmidt told the council. "I hope this stops."

Shows how much the demo's support the troops.

Skybill writes:
Bezerkley is at it again. Bezerkley would be a good "first strike" for terrorists. Wipe it off the map!

How very un-American of you. Perhaps you and Bill O'Reilly could torch the US Constitution while you're at it?

Andrew

un-American is telling the people that protect their freedom that they are not wanted in their city.

Bezerkley has always led the charge towards lunacy.

Sorry, did I miss the part where Berkeley said that members of the US Military were not welcome in Berkeley? The story you posted indicated that Berkeley doesn't want the Marines to recruit there. Big difference.

No doubt their attitude would be very different if the US Military were actually being deployed to defend America, not fight in unrelated conflicts and occupy foreign nations we invaded without just cause.

Andrew

In May of 1969, this little college town had a good taste of what Prague endured the year before. A small protest was whipped into a riot, and in the melee, dozens of law enforcement and citizens were seriously injured. During the confrontation, the police hit 51 people with buckshot, killing one and blinding another. Governor Ronald Reagan put the city under martial law and it was occupied by troops for 17 days. Considering the high price this community paid for trying to build a park, they can be a touch sensitive about militarism.

That's splitting an awful fine hair.

And if you read the article again, it doesn't say "You can stay, just don't recruit" is says "You are not welcome here" as evidenced in this quote from their mayor "I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates.

And this from the city council: The City Council has voted to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests."

And code pink(o) wants to restrict where a recruiting office can set up shop??? WTF? It's not a porno store, a crack house or massage parlor (although in Bezerkley those would probably be welcomed)

It just shows how far off base Bezerkley is.

I think you're intentionally misunderstanding the story, Skybill, to read in a meaning that isn't there. It's obvious Mayor Bates is referring to the Marine recruiting station when he refers to "The Marines." Come on, you can do better than that.

Andrew

I'm a bit shocked that the mayor (or any other municipal government official) would publicly make a statement like, "The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave." However, if that attitude is typical of the community standards of Berkeley, then running a military recruiting office out of a Berkeley storefront is probably a waste of time and money.

As far as I know, Code Pink was founded by a group of Moms with children fighting in Iraq. They support the troops by wanting their babies home safe and sound. It seems to me they have a vested interest in not only stopping the war, but protecting other kids from being slaughtered for college money.

If we were defending our own shores, this city would be no different than any other in America. I also suspect these Moms would be very uneasy, but strong supporters of the cause. They strike me as the kind that send enough homemade cookies and warm socks to share with the whole unit.

Andrew, I understand that he means the recruiting office, but to me saying that is akin to saying "hookers are welcome here, just don't hook!

It's the same kind of logic.

I think the Marines should stay and thumb their noses at the city. But being the respectful people that the Marines are they probably won't.

Littlesongs, I'm sure that EVERY parent that has a child in the military, and that child is deployed somewhere, wants’ their child to return home safely.

I'm also sure that you, me and everyone on this board wants the same thing. None of us WANT to see our soldiers killed or wounded.

However, when an individual signs up for the military, they do so with the expectation that ultimately they could be sent into harm’s way.

I'd love for them to find a way to fight a war without killing and the loser would have to abide by the winner, but I don't think that’s likely to happen anytime soon.

Skybill writes:
Andrew, I understand that he means the recruiting office, but to me saying that is akin to saying "hookers are welcome here, just don't hook!

So you think the primary function of the Marines is to recruit? Sorry, I don't think it's a good analogy. The folks in Berkeley simply don't want to see local kids recruited to participate in what they believe are immoral military actions not related to America's national defense. That's really what it comes down to: you see Iraq differently than they do. If you thought Iraq was wrong and immoral, you wouldn't want Americans participating in it, either and wouldn't want people recruiting for it in your town.

Andrew

"I'm sure that EVERY parent that has a child in the military, and that child is deployed somewhere, wants’ their child to return home safely.

I'm also sure that you, me and everyone on this board wants the same thing. None of us WANT to see our soldiers killed or wounded.

However, when an individual signs up for the military, they do so with the expectation that ultimately they could be sent into harm’s way."

I agree with you. I have several brave Marines in my extended family. When my brother was in the Air Force, it worried my Mom sick. What makes it different for families now is the fear mongering, endless lies and the rubber stamped death announcements. Families are also not blind to the disregard of our leaders -- that borders on contempt -- for their sons and daughters when they return.

When I was in high school in the 80s, we pushed really hard to get the recruiters out of the hallway. Even with the cold war in full swing, the majority of the student body felt that it was inappropriate to have the military on campus. The reasoning was that any student who was interested in the Armed Forces -- or virtually any other profession -- had plenty of material to read in the career office.

I think that emptying the jails into the ranks and preying on low income teens to fill in the remaining gaps is the worst possible scenario for our national security. Especially when thousands of brave men and women are returning to a system that gives a hollow thank you, and sweeps them into the dustbin.

"The folks in Berkeley simply don't want to see local kids recruited to participate in what they believe are immoral military actions not related to America's national defense. That's really what it comes down to: you see Iraq differently than they do. If you thought Iraq was wrong and immoral, you wouldn't want Americans participating in it, either and wouldn't want people recruiting for it in your town."

Amen, Andrew.

I say good for Berkley. It's their city and it should be run how they like it.

The Marines can go to a Gawdforsaken place like west Texas instead and give the kids a chance at an actual life, provided they survive helping Bush find WMDs in Iraq.

The whole, "well just let them get blown up", tit - for - tat mentality, is troublesome.

Guess it's all "with us or against us" divisive crap.

We really don't need that. What we do need is to ask, "why?" of Berkley, which is exactly their point.

Perhaps the targeting of places like Berkeley is from a directive, in a plot to deplete areas of inteligencia?

Tin hat time!

Good for Senator DeMint!

U.S. Senator Wants to Revoke Funding From City of Berkeley, Calif., for Vote to Boot Marines
Friday, February 01, 2008


WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., says the City of Berkeley, Calif., no longer deserves federal money.

DeMint was angered after learning that the Berkeley City Council voted this week to tell the U.S. Marine Corps to remove its recruiting station from the city's downtown.

"This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money."

"If the city can’t show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added.

In the meantime, a senior Marine official tells FOX News that the Marine office in Berkeley isn't going anywhere.

"We understand things are different there, but some people just don't get it. This is a part of the military machine that gives them the right to do what they do, but what they are doing is extreme," the official said.

DeMint said he will draft legislation to rescind any earmarks dedicated for the City of Berkeley in the recently passed appropriations bill — which his office tallied to value about $2.1 million. He said that any money taken back would be transferred to the Marines.

DeMint's office provided a preliminary list of items that would be subject to his proposal:

— $975,000 for the University of California at Berkeley, for the Matsui Center for Politics and Public Service, which may include establishing an endowment, and for cataloguing the papers of Congressman Robert Matsui.

— $750,000 for the Berkeley/Albana ferry service.

— $243,000 for the Chez Panisse Foundation, for a school lunch initiative to integrate lessons about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum.

— $94,000 for a Berkeley public safety interoperability program.

— $87,000 for the Berkeley Unified School District, nutrition education program.

The Marine official, speaking with FOX News on Friday, said Marine Commandant Gen. James Conway scoffed at the news, but there are no plans for to protest the City Council's decisions. There are definitely no plans to move the recruiting station either.

"To actually put something into law that encourages the disruption of a federal office is ridiculous. They are not going to kick a federal office out of its rightful place there, and this is not going to discourage those young patriots who want to be Marines," the official said.

The Berkeley City Council this week voted to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests," according to The Associated Press.

The council also voted to explore whether a city anti-discrimination law applies to the Marines, with a focus on the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy that prevents open homosexuality in the military.

The council also voted to give the antiwar group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months, as well as a protest permit.

The Marine recruiting office in Berkeley has been open for about one year, but has been the subject of recent protests by Code Pink members.

Waste of time, on their anti discrimination law research, federal law always trumps state or local ordinances.

This is like from a few decades ago, the no dogs or soldiers signs on the lawns.

I can think of several actions, maybe a 1000 soldiers go into the town, and go to the restaurants buy the cheapest thing on the menu, and take about 2-3 hours to eat. and everyone pay with the dollar coins.

This is one thing Nwokie and I sure agree on, but I say pay with pennies, demand separate checks and receipts and leave recruiting brochures as receipts.

Where are you gonna find 1,000 vegan Marines?

Littlesongs, Great answer and probably spot on knowing Bezerkley!!

I was in Bezerkley a number of years back and had to park on one of the streets that have parking meters.

So while I was feeding the meter, I glanced at the tag inside and read the days that you don't have to pay.

It included the usual. Saturdays, Sundays, then listed the holidays. Again the usual; New Years Day, Presidents Day...Then this one: Indigenous Americans Day and in parenthesis (Columbus Day)!!

Only in Bezerkley!

Edit add: Vegan and Vegetarian are old Indian words. They both mean the same thing; Bad Hunter!

Skybill, do you know WHY Berkely is dong what they are doing? Or does it even matter to you?

"do you know WHY Berkely is dong..."

Yes, they are dongs.

Their doing it because, they don't agree with the US policy, and are entitled to disagree. But their attacking the military, which only does what its told by duly elected leaders.

I am kinda tired of the "z" in Beserkley, and I will tell you why: I am a music nerd.

Here is the legendary songwriter, Jonathan Richman performing at Sproul Plaza in 1981. This was the site of all the violence just a dozen years earlier. Along with his band, Modern Lovers, Richman was an artist on Beserkley Records in the late 1970s and early 80s.

Okay, I guess you can all go back to being divisive again. Have you looked up Senator DeMint's service record?

Dongs, indeed.

CJ Sure I do.

See Magic_eye's response.

To elaborate on Nwokie's response; they are opposed to the war. Bezerkley was a hot bed on anti-war protests during Viet Nam too, so that's nothing new. However, "attacking" the military, as Nwokie says, isn't the appropriate way to show their displeasure.

Protests are fine. It's their first amendment right. For the city to sponsor them is wrong just as it would be wrong for the city to sponsor a pro-war group. Granting protest permits is as far as the city should go. Denying an occupancy permit or business license, if warranted, and political views do not count, would be another way for the city to react.

They are giving Code Pink(o) a parking space, for free. Do you think the city would give an anti-abortion group a free space outside planned parenthood? If they are giving "pink" one then any group no matter what their stance is should be entitled to the same treatment.

It really doesn't matter to us in the PNW what Bezerkley does in all reality. When half of CA falls into the ocean, Bezerkley will be ocean front property and all the rich folks will come in and snatch up the property and run the pinko commies out!!!

For now, though, they should build a wall around the city and tell them they are on their own. No federal support or funding.

Dongs, indeed.

They need a ding to go along with that!

" For now, though, they should build a wall around the city and tell them they are on their own. No federal support or funding."

Why would you do that though? Can you not think of one scenario in which a response that what Berkeley is doing is appropriate? Is NONE of it valid?

Is your position that The Armed Forces should be able to use any means necessary to recruit and be able to do it anywhere and for any reason? No questions asked?

CJ, No. What the city is doing is wrong.

Private Citizens are free and welcome to protest or support any and all things.

For a municipal government to take a stand and come out and say the Marines are not welcome is just wrong.

If the Marines have done something illegal, then I could see where the city might have a case to revoke their business license or occupancy permit.

If they have done nothing illegal they have as much right to be there as any other business.

I think the Armed Forces should be allowed to recruit anywhere. "Any Means Necessary" I don't agree with.

As long as they are honest (and there have been reports of dishonest recruiters) and upfront with the people they are talking to and don't make false promises, then recruit away.

I think that's a fair approach. It just doesn't bother me as much as it does you. I hear ya though - thanks for being clear about it.

Last time I checked, the government IS the people.

Last time I checked, the government IS the people.

That's the way it is SUPPOSED to be. Don't hold your breath though.

Here's why:

We vote in one person and the supreme court gives the office to another person.

Then, four years later, this person wins by a whisker and declares he has a mandate.

I just watched the video of protesters blocking access to the recruiting center and the police doing nothing to help anyone get past them. the police are abetting the scum. Send in the National Guard.

This is the last straw for me.

I am changing my registration to Independent.

So the protest has become illegal and the local law enforcement is doing nothing. Sounds par for the course. Seems the protesters want this to turn violent and are taking steps to provoke it. Everyone is entitled to their right to protest until that act infringes on the freedom's of other's. The local law enforcement should feel very proud to wear that uniform.

"Send in the National Guard."

Can't. They're in Iraq fighting for a lie.

Here's the video

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=41464

note the vandalism.

All it would take is one cop with balls to at least push them away from the door to let others in.

OMFG!!!
Civi disobedience!?!?

In THIS country?!!?!
Oh Say it ain't so!!

That never accomplished anything.
Just ask Rosa Parks.

(I know... she's dead)

LOL!!!

Simply amazing. I'm having a hard time even trying to relate to the mindset here.

Another brutal truth:

Treat people like shit and they are gonna act out.

Instead of focusing on the symptom (acting out), focus on the cause (treating like shit), and this all goes away.

I would have right at that moment went to a local pawn shop and bought a tazer gun, went back there, and used it. The police in this situation were the one way wrong. Neutral my ass! Puss's more like it. What a disgrace to be one of the worthless officers!

Or maybe just borrowed one from one of those worthless cops. They would not have kept me out if I had business there!

Maybe the Marines should surround all of the local coffee shoppes and not let any of those freaks at their morning coffee!

...maybe those officers agree with the core problem driving the protest?

Just saying.

It's not for them to agree or disagree, their job is to arrest the lawbreakers blocking entrance to a legitimate business. . . . PERIOD end of story! Sorry, my son's going into the Navy and damn proud of him and our country. If the protest was law abiding then fine but these morons are breaking the law and need to be sent to jail! Were is the frickin Terminator when you need one!

LOL!!!

I don't know about that. There are times when we are humans and those times do sometimes trump the law.

I've had jobs where doing the right thing conflicted... can't say I've always done the right thing, but I can say that when I did, it was worth it.

Who knows?

All I know is we wouldn't have scenes like this if the nation were being run in a solid way. It isn't and people are gonna act out over it.

Say one of those cops does the full enforcement bit. Would it have changed anything? Probably not. The statement would still be made, the difference being perhaps somebody gets harmed that doesn't need to be.

The problem is at the top, not with the angry people suffering for the ignorance and greed.

Two words to explain it:

Berkeley, California.

'Nuff said!

OK. So when someone gets pushed through a glass windows and dies, you think they will get off their asses and do something then. They are officers of the law and should be held accountable for the missing of action to arrest law breakers. They do not have the luxury to pick and choose when and were. The law was broken. Get their badge numbers and file a complaint. I wonder if someone were to bloody one of their noses if they would have done something then, or used pepper spray on the lot of them to get them out of their way.

This is Bullshit. Two wrongs dont make a right. The law was broken.

Every one of the protestors should be arrested.

Every one of the cops should be fired then arrested.

The Marines should file charges against the City and the protestors.

If the protestors physically accost someone trying to get in to the Marines office then it is no longer a "peaceful protest"

I wish I had a trip scheduled to the Bay area. I’d have to go get a can of mace then go to the Marine’s office just to say thank you for protecting our freedom.

Where the hell do the morons that are protesting think their freedom to protest came from?

Just one more reason to NEVER live in California!

I'm with you, lets fly down there, get the industrial can of pepper spray, and go visit the Marines and tell them thanks for defending our country! Oh, if the door is blocked then well pepper spray our way in K!

Let's go! ROOOOOAD TRRRRRIP!!!!!

Edit add: We're staying away from the Hotel bar!

But that's were all of the liquid courage is. Right there next to the bottled stupidity!

You know code PINK is appropriate for them commie's!

Well, just save the bar for after the cleanup. Then you can have some drinks and tell stories.

Ya, get tanked then do some posts, could be a hoot. Why does that sound familiar? Hmmm.

(classic dude, just classic! Will be remembered for all time.)

The upside would be some great entertainment. Way worse things in this world than trying to post up stuff hammered.

Just remember, buy the pepper spray down there in Berkeley. If you try to get on the plane with it, we will be sending you crossword puzzles c/o Guantanamo. You will be hanging out with them either way, but the Marines are a lot nicer in Cali than they are in Cuba.

Darktemper wrote:
I'm with you, lets fly down there, get the industrial can of pepper spray, and go visit the Marines and tell them thanks for defending our country!

I got a better idea. Why don't you and Skybill join up, or can't you back up your words? It's usually all talk with you conservatives.

I'm thinking skybill and DT might end up in jail since they will be in enemy territory telling the enemy how to run their territory.

Hey Aok, I think I'm a little to old. So if its ok with you I will send my son to the Navy next September. He is already signed up and I am 1000% percent supportive of his decision.

Hey AOK, I did my time in Vietnam, like Nwokie, and while not fully conservative, I support Darktemper this time. and Darktemper, tell your son that even Democrats support his service. Anchors away!

Question, for the few defending the protesters behavior in Berkley. If I got a few buddies and went down to the local welfare office, and prevented people from going in, because I disagreed with the policy, would you also support that?

Yes. I fully support the Constitutional right of all Americans to gather and speak out for or against anything they feel strongly about. I draw the line at violence, destruction of property, and menacing.

If I am built with the kind of stuff that makes me a Marine, I have no fear of a few folks protesting a war. I do not need approval from my city, or frankly, from anyone in the country, to enlist. It is my personal decision.

Darktemper, I am behind your Son a hundred percent too. I said it the moment I found out. I hope I am not going out on a limb by assuming that every member of this dysfunctional and outspoken radio message board family is behind him. We all support the troops. Our only disagreements are about the war itself.

"There's a federal statute on the books which says that, if a college or university does not provide space for military recruiters or provide a ROTC program for its students, it can lose its federal funding."

Both Clinton and Obama answered that they would enforce the Solomon Amendment, which first passed in 1994 when Bill Clinton was president.

The idea was: With federal funding comes responsibility. Except the Berkeley City Council feels it owes the American military nothing but disrespect.
You see what free speech has become in Berkeley. It's not the free expression of competing ideas. It's free for lefties only - and for them, speech without consequences.



Free speech is fine but these pinko's are breaking the law. I also don't believe they speak for the majority of people in Bezerkely and are in fact extremist's under the protection of other extremist's on the city council that actually encoured the group to impede recruitment. The city council, officers who did nothing, and the pinko's need some jail time.

"these pinko's are breaking the law"

Rosa Parks broke the law.
Martin Luther King broke the law.
The participants of the Boston Tea Party broke the law.
Pro-Life protesters have broken the law.
Pro-Choice protesters have broken the law.

Rosa and Martin did it peacefully, the others did it violently.

So Amus, I guess you support my right to go down there with Nowie and Darktemper and smash those punks into the pavement.

Then they all should face charges. Laws are for everyone, everywhere, anytime. For law officers to decline action when they are in the precense of criminal activity and for city council members to encourage this action is reprehensible. Maybe the Marines should call in the troops and blockage the city council chambers in protest of their actions.

I think they were willing to to face the charges.
And they did pay the price.

Do you think they were not?

No, just making a statemnet. I'm sure those people paid dearly for their beliefs, as they should if they choose to break the law. These Bezerkely Pinko's chose to break the law and should be punished accordingly.

Bezerkely Pinko's

Herb... Is that YOU?

Nwokie asked - " If I got a few buddies and went down to the local welfare office, and prevented people from going in, because I disagreed with the policy, would you also support that? "

Yes.

Is that how you feel about welfare, Nwokie? Do you feel it's something worthy of your protest in public like that? Or is this just another hypothetical that never really applies to anything?

Yes. I fully support the Constitutional right of all Americans to gather and speak out for or against anything they feel strongly about. I draw the line at violence, destruction of property, and menacing.

Littlesongs, I agree 100% with you on your statement. However, from viewing that video it looked like they were physically stopping people from entering the Marines office.

That's where the "peaceful" part ends.

Also for the police to stand by while this happens is what I'd consider dereliction of duties and they should be brought up on charges and fired.

Darktemper, Please give you son my personal thanks for his support of our freedom.

Bill

Aye Aye Bill.

Police are people with badges. All that uniform does is identify them, it does not change the fact that they are still part of the community. Not every city is going to react the same way. A city like Berkeley has vast experience with civil unrest. They have policies and guidelines, and I am sure that they would react if the Marines really needed them.

I understand how the actions of a few folks can make you upset at a whole city or region. To be honest, I am one hell of a lot more appalled by the footage of dead Monks in Burma. I am a whole lot more angry about protesters in South Korea, Italy and Mexico being run over by armored cars and shot point blank with rubber bullets. I guess we all see things differently. It makes us Americans.

Yes, they are still people and subject to human tendencies, but as Police Officers and public servants, they take an oath to uphold the law.

They are not doing that.

People have a right to protest in public places, and a sidewalk is considered a public place. What they don't have, is a right to prevent other people from exercising their rights.

The police have an obligation to enforce the law, just like they should arre3st anyone spraying the protesters with pepper spray, they should arrest any protestor preventing someone from exercising their rights.

I do not want to come off as unsympathetic to the military, but c'mon guys. These are Marines. If you are worried for their safety in a town full of hippies, you must be shitting timber to know that they will be going into the middle of a civil-fricking-war in Iraq. A few good men are going to make it through that door whether the whole city of Berkeley, the ghost of Chief Joseph, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster is in the way. We are talking about future Marines here, not folks looking to buy a skinny latte. Birkenstock brigade or not, if they want a hitch, they will get it.

So, what your saying Littlesong, is that young men and women seeking to defend your rights, don't have any rights of their own?

Marines Analyze, Improvise, and Overcome. They will get done what they need to and you try as you may, Marines get the job done and don't leave anyone behind.

Oh, I'm not worried about the Marines safety. They are more than capable of taking care of themselves!

Unless the Code Pink(o) guys start swinging their pink purses the Marines have nothing to worry about!

It's their rights that are being violated that bothers me. The City and Police are encouraging the law breakers and not protecting the rights of others.

Code Pink does have the right to assemble and protest, but NOT to physically block the way of the people that want to go into the Marines office.

Hypothetically: What if someone that wanted into the Marines office and one or more of the protestors was physically not letting them in and after asking politely for them to move, this person took it upon themselves to force their way in and in the process popped a few of the protestors in the nose with their fist, would they be wrong? Or should they just walk away and grant the protestors a victory?

No, that is not what I am saying at all.

I am saying that if pushing through a crowd of protesters is too much for them, then they probably ought to find another profession.

I am curious about the real facts and the actual positions of the city, the Marine recruits, the Marine recruiters and the protesters. I want more information about it, rather than a chorus of anger.

I do think that conjuring up such intense feelings about this situation based on a few minutes of footage and a couple newspaper articles is reactionary.

If we all take a deep breath, we will find that there is much more common ground between us.

Hypothetically: What if someone that wanted into the Marines office and one or more of the protesters was physically not letting them in and after asking politely for them to move, this person took it upon themselves to force their way in and in the process popped a few of the protesters in the nose with their fist, would they be wrong? Or should they just walk away and grant the protestors a victory?

Also hypothetically: Odds are quite good that if a prospective Marine popped a protester, the police would let it go if it ended there and then. In fact, it might just fall under the current tit for tat that seems to be going on. However, once inside, the Marines might not want him anyway. It takes a great deal of discipline to be a member of the Corps and a hothead is not likely to be an asset. Of course, standards are much lower now, so who knows?

Add -- I understand why a prospective Marine would want to pop a protester, and I understand why they are protesting. If that kind of messy stuff isn't as American as apple pie, what is?

Berkeley Peace and Justice Commission Recommendation

The Marines are just biding their time, things will either calm down or another solution will present itself. I'd be interested in what George has to say about all of this. If the Marines are forced out it would be likely the federal funds for the college would go with them. Who wins then?