Yesterday, Hillary Clinton's campaign was done and over with, and Obama had already cinched the nomination. Today, Clinton wins NH, and is back into front runner position. The polls and pundits blew this one!

John Edwards is done. He would do his country well to bow out now and ask his supporters to vote Obama. Edwards may end up being the Nader of the Democratic primary.

And, Rudy is done! McCain may just be the front runner for the GOP for now. Romney is in trouble! Fred Thompson is done.

I've been predicting since Obama won Iowa that Clinton would win New Hampshire. I did think it would be closer than it was, though. But Iowa's results are almost always different from later results. Iowa seems to like to tweak the supposed front-runners.

On another forum, I correctly predicted the finishing order in NH in both parties! Man I feel smart for a change (and really lucky at guessing).

Andrew

On the Republican side, Guliani has decided to skip IA and NH (small states with small delegate counts) and start his "real" campaign in Florida. He might be blowing smoke, or he might be reworking the conventional wisdom of the importance these first two voting states.

Question is, why aren't ALL the candidates still in the race at this early date? Obama has a first and second, Clinton has a first and third, and Edwards has a second and third. Sounds like a mixed bag to me. And what's our rush to call the party's nominee? I'd like this process to go nice and sloooow. Partly to give all the candidates a good vetting, and partly because we still have almost 11 months to go.

For the love of god I hope the Democrats dont fuck up another election and vote Hillary in. Do yourself a favor and vote in Obama.

Well some of us have had to live the past 7 years with a pretty big F.U. currently holding down the White House. All is fair in politics.

I was just thinking up a smarty pants answer to Mc74 only to find out Chris beat me to the punch!

Acceptance is the first stage people.

I read Mc74's statement as the Democrats should have done better! He needs them --we need them to just execute, or we are gonna have another pretty damn ugly 4 years!

That's a nice and positive message, I agree with!

Oh gee Missing now I feel guilty. Good point though. Should look forward and not back.

I'm still undecided and enjoying my registered Independent role. I truly want to know where everyone stands but I'm willing to wait until both parties have their nominations and we can really look at each ticket. Then I'll put more of an effort into knowing the candidates.

It's so early and everyone is fighting a position war.

clinton/edwards 2008, sounds great to me

For the love of god I hope the Democrats dont fuck up another election and vote Hillary in. Do yourself a favor and vote in Obama.

Up is the only way Hillary can F&%#!!!!!

Edit: Probably Obama too, he just hasn't had enough opportunities!!

"clinton/edwards 2008"

Likes like being dealt a 2 7 offsuit in hold em'. Gotta muck that hand for sure!

I think Edwards is done.

Me too.

I hate to admit it, but me three.

Me four

And my man Bill Richardson officially bowed out of the race today I was hoping he could find some charisma with that message.

The difference in Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans figure out long before an election who the best possible winner will be.

When McCain ran before, the Republican party committed political assasination of the Senator cause they knew there best possible chance to win was Bush.

Democrats on the other hand will spend every last minute up to the election bitching and crying over some canidate such as Kucinich or Richardson and why they should be President. Meanwhile your best possible and best chance to win is Obama yet the idiotic Democratic party can not figure that out.

Maybe that is why there has only been ONE Democratic president since 1979.

"When McCain ran before, the Republican party committed political assasination of the Senator cause they knew there best possible chance to win was Bush."

Admittedly, the Republicans do know how to win elections.

Don't know shit about doing the job they are elected to perform, though.

Politics is kind of like radio listeners. Fickle. Just when you think you have them figured out....well you get my point.

We have entered into a new age of politics where it takes a machine to elect a president. I believe that is the case of Bush. I simply think the man has been in over his head from day one. But his political machine was stronger and smarter than he was and the dems. Which truly mystified those who voted against Bush. It was certainly a scratch your head once...and then wouldn’t' you know it...scratch your head twice.

Mc74-You make some good points however I think it's important to hear out guys like Kucinich and Richardson, along with Ron Paul. Even as long as this political season has been, this is where our leaders come from. It's not always fair and its too big now to try and fix it with some overhaul.

Americans swing with the tide. You may seem dems in the White House more in the next 20 years than in the previous. The boomers are retiring and this new generation certainly has some very talented people who might bring some fresh perspective to both parties.

I want another Democrat in the White house. I am voting for Obama. My biggest fear is that Hillary gets the nomination then the Democrats get killed yet again.

Face it, the whole appeal of Hillary is her husband. That is the only reason she even gets any votes.

Put a man in the White house that is not part of the problem, vote in Obama.

"That is the only reason she even gets any votes."

Right. Did you come up with that one all by yourself? You're just so astute. Have you ever considered a career as a political analyst?

(Hey, I ain't voting for her either, but am rolling my eyes at that pithy assessment.)

Obamas message, Hey kids, it's ok to use drugs, look at me, I used all I wanted, and now I have a chance to be president.

Hillaries message, Hey girls, you don't have to do anything, marry a smart, charming man, and when he's successful, you can use his success to build your carreer.

Bush!

(Hey, I like it! He's FOS anyway, why not coin the term, and have some fun!)

Know what Nwokie?

Everybody is human, everybody is young for a time, everybody gets the chance to learn from their experiences.

Focusing on somebody having used drugs at some point, as if it's some kind of one time scarlet mark that would deny any future potential, is stupid, and completely ignores the reality of our human condition.

People can and do learn, grow, improve and change every single day. The harder one works at that, the better one becomes, and that's Obama's message.

Yes we can.

(Freaking love that --it is so completely and totally American!)

Honesty builds trust. I don't mind one bit, having a leader, with enough character to own up to his particular set of life experiences. The fact that he has done some drugs is the experience. What happened after word is what matters and that tells us what kind of person we are considering for our leadership position.

I've done it! I'll bet everybody here has done it! Does that change who we are today, here and now, some how?

Absolutely not, and anything else, is just manipulation aimed at trying to level the field between a fairly lousy GOP pack, and a solid Democratic pack of potential winners.

As a parent, I don't tell my kids, if you use drugs, you are marked for life. Why? Because it is not true, but in the eyes of a few, and those few have other issues that marginalize their opinion.

I tell them not to use the drugs because they can do themselves harm, and it's that harm that could limit their potential, not the act.

If if was the act, then we would ban booze and smokes, wouldn't we?

Thought so.

Obama is a human --real person, having done some real things. That's cool! I know where he is coming from, and something about the character he has based on how he handled those experiences.

Anybody that does not confront that issue, up front and brutally honest, is not presenting as a real person, and therefore cannot be trusted!

Good on him for that. Excellent message, every young person could live by.



Hey, check this out!

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2008/01/11/democrats-say-young-are-flockin g-to-party-.html?s_cid=rss:democrats-say-young-are-flocking-to-party-.html

We've got younger voters flocking to the party in 4-1 droves! In the last few weeks, talking about Obama and the early primary results, I'm convinced it's Obama doing the lions share of this. I also think Hilary is having an impact as women want to see a woman president too.

Younger people today grok the stuff I just wrote. They also are far less inclined to engage in petty discrimination, and they are up and coming, right as we've got a fairly large older group outgoing. With the decline of the boomers, we are gonna see a wave of significant change.

People want it, people need it, Obama is flat out saying they can get it, and he will help that, encourage that, and embraces that.

Yes we can.

I'm sold. Hope he wins huge.

I can just see the republican campaign ads, Do we want a president near the nuclear button, that might have an LSD flashback at any time?

Do we want a president that is telling our kids its ok to do drugs?

I need to read his book, and see what other crimes he admits to.

Help me out here, MK!

Is it:
FOS Full of Stool (medical slang)
FOS Factory Outlet Store
FOS Failure of Selection (US DoD)
FOS Faint Object Spectrograph
FOS Father Over Shoulder
FOS Fiber Optic Sensor
FOS Feature of Size
FOS Found On Shelf
FOS Freedom of Speech (ha!)
FOS French Onion Soup
FOS Friends of Scouting
FOS Fuel Oil Spill, or most likely,
FOS (plain ol') Full of Shit

P.S. to Okie: I didn't think it possible, but your "deep thoughts" (above) are even dumber, er, more misguided than Mc74's!

FOS...Full of Snow

Gee, the (P)resident has admitted (and OMITTED...) many things in his past, including alcoholism. Do you really believe he never once got behind the wheel after a few too many?

And no, we want a President who says it's OK to make mistakes, face the consequences, and learn from them. Again, not the current guy's strong suit.

Doesn't matter, wht counts is Obama has put it in writting. He could have easily said he made a few mistakes in his younger years. But being specific, is going to hurt him, mainly in the south and midwest. This election is probably going to be decided in 1 or 2 states, Florida and Illinois. And anything that can shift 1 or 2 percentage points is going to be big.

I totally agree with EN and MK

I think WPE's (or anyone else's) avoidance of addressing their known cocaine or other substance usage is a far, far, far more serious character flaw than Obama (or anyone else) admitting to, and/or saying his drug usage was a poor choice and they changed direction.

So I disagree that it's going to hurt Obama. It makes him human and honest. Even my age 70+ (alien and dinosaur) parents agree. It may only matter to old voters and/or Fox watchers. I'd bet to the majority of voters who grew up in the late 60's or later that this isn't really an issue. We all know someone who used/tried/experimented with substances and alcohol who are just fine these days.

Speaking of old urban legend "Acid Flashbacks", did anyone see this in "The Edge" the other day?

Portion of the U.S. population that has lived only under presidents named Bush or Clinton: 1 in 4

Estimated portion eight years from now, if Hillary Clinton were to win two terms: 1 in 3

It's the plain old plain old FOS.

Although, "feature of size" is kind of funny too.

I love it! Nwokie says Obama could have easily lied, or misrepresented himself. Hmmm... Wouldn't that just open a can of worms for the naysayers too?

"look! Obama smoked Pot, but does not tell all in his book. He's trying to hide something! Don't vote for a lying stoner, with something to hide!"

Besides, this is more of the same attack the person, not the message crap. Ever notice how most of the GOP supporters (remaining that is) are all about who is worst?

I sure have.

I much prefer voting for, rather than against.

I didn' say he should have lied, he could have no commened, or simply said he had commited indescretions in his youth, hes not proud of.

Bu to say , yeau, I used drugs, and it hasn't hurt me, is what hes saying.

It didn't hurt him.

You sure, if it costs him 2% of the vote, it could easily cost him the election.

Well if someone could explain how it specifically hurt him, I'd listen to that. And I'd also like to hear about degree. I mean, does that matter at all? Degree?

If you are truly worried about him having a flashback, which I believe to be highly unlikely, then really take that out to the end for me please. He'll have a flashback from his LSD and do what? Just out of the blue start authorizing nukes to be launched? Right. That would not happen.

But it's a fun thing to say - even though it's not based on anything real, eh?

Or is it that he shouldn't be rewarded for having done drugs as a youth and get to be President? Again, take that out to the end for me and explain it.

Maybe he should have had no comment. Why?

Maybe he shouldn't be allowed to even run. Why?

This is where Nwokies assertions just fall apart for me.

I'd rather know everything I can and THEN make a decision. My decision is that I'm ok with it. Tell me why I shouldn't be and I'll listen.

Nailed it! Very eager to see any and all of CJ's scenarios played out.

In the meantime...

IMHO, he's only hurt, if he lets others define who he is. That's all the "you took drugs, so you are worthless / not Presidential material" types, passing judgment.

The fact that he can and did write it down, tells me he gets that dynamic; therefore, it just didn't hurt him.

Why should he no comment it? It gives all the kids in America the thought, drugs aren't so bad, look Obama used them and he may be president.

How can it hurt him? All it takes is 1 or 2 percent of the votes in a couple of states.

Heck even a convicted felon can run for president, but the party can pay a price if they choose someone with a problem that can be exploited by the opposition.

National elections are won on perception of a candidate, reality has little to do with it.

Newsflash: Many drugs aren't so bad Nwokie. We sell booze and smokes every day. Pot smokers abound!

Escalating above that can get bad, for sure, but not all drugs are bad. Ignorance about drugs is what is bad. If people really understood them, could openly talk about them, get honest help with them, then they would not be such a problem.

Your point on perception is a good one. Guess we are gonna see how many real, honest people we have in this country. I'll bet the numbers run pretty high, outside the 23 percenters.

You still are missing out on how that hurts Obama though. Win or lose, he is who he is. How he feels about that is up to him, and nobody else.

Again, because he was up front and honest about his life, I seriously doubt this discussion will even be on his radar, win or lose.

Think of it this way. If that issue really can define a Presidency, perhaps the nation is just not ready for somebody as real as Obama is! See how that works?

To some it has hurt him. But those were people who already weren't going to vote for him anyway. So that's not hurting him. In fact, to me, I like him MORE for for being honest about it. Do you think there are more people like me or more people like what you say, Nwokie? Do you know anybody who thinks like that? Am I being fooled by the reality or the perception?

Do you think there is a realistic chance of him having an acid flashback while in office?

" National elections are won on perception of a candidate, reality has little to do with it."

So what is the reality in this case, Nwokie? And how is it different than the perception? Are you just saying something that you yourself don't even believe to be realistic? You are just speaking for the easilly fooled or what?

Backtrack some more and I'll see you when you get here.

Obama's drug use is a non-issue. It would only be an issue of he tried to hide it, like George W. Bush did, and then it came out during a "gotcha" moment. It's already been disclosed and nobody really cares because most normal people have used drugs in some way during their life as well. Those that claim they haven't are probably lying.

...or very seriously repressed!

"Why should he no comment it? It gives all the kids in America the thought, drugs aren't so bad, look Obama used them and he may be president."

Bush has practically bragged about being a C-average student - does that send the wrong impression to kids about the value of education? Should HE keep his mouth shut about his lackluster scholastic performance?

C'mon, Nwokie - you are really reaching for things to criticize Obama about. That tells me he's a pretty strong candidate, if that's the best you got.

I respect people that admit their mistakes, not lie about them.

"A conversation between Bush and an old friend and author, Doug Wead, touched on the subject of use of illegal drugs. In the taped recordings of the conversation, Bush explained his refusal to answer questions about whether he had used marijuana at some time in his past. “I wouldn’t answer the marijuana questions,” Bush says. “You know why? Because I don’t want some little kid doing what I tried.” When Wead reminded Bush that the latter had publicly denied using cocaine, Bush replied, "I haven't denied anything."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_substance_abuse_controversy

"...it gives all the kids in America the thought..."

And opens up the discussion about core values that all parents should be having with their kids regularly and often:

Tell the truth. If you have to lie about it, it's not worth doing.

Take your lumps and learn from them.

Drugs, alcohol, etc., exist. Here's the way we deal with the facts...a prime teaching/learning experience, IMHO.

Re: FOS
You forgot one: Friend of Satan (We are talking about Bush, right?!)

@ Nwokie:
It gives all the kids in America the thought, drugs aren't so bad, look Obama used them and he may be president.
First of all, are you saying that you have never done anything that society deems "bad" in your entire life? And yes, I'm even referring to anything that was unreported, and/or the statute of limitations has run out on, and/or anything that's been removed from your record. Please note I'm not asking you to respond - just a rhetorical question.
Secondly, there are plenty of kids using drugs these days. They're called "prescriptions."

For the record I have never used illegal drugs.

For the record I drank alcohol before I was legal and at age 19 drove drunk. Was lucky I didn't hurt anyone including myself.

There I feel better. I'm ready to be president.

Well, I'd certainly vote for you!!!

I figured that there are about 3 people on this side that never "experimented" with anything illegal, and you might be one of them, I think mainly from previous discussions, but it certainly doesn't make me have any less respect for you. However, the other 2 squares, I just don't trust.

The closest I've come to ever using LSD is when I watched 2001, A Space Odyessy. Can I be your president?

I'm Member #2 of the Chris Taylor Super-Prude Goody-Goody Drug-Free club*. Just never had an inkling of interest in that crap. But I won't say no to the occasional thirst-quenching beer.

When I tell my students this, they laugh and refuse to believe me. If Obama were to deny having ever done drugs (even if true) the electorate would probably scoff too. So he might as well tell the truth - damned either way.


(*I did have some funny-tasting brownies at a party once though...)

Haven't done illegal drugs, I don't do alcohol, and I wouldn't want to be President, but I've rediscovered some old acid-rock recently and I soon hope to watch a Fantasia tape I got at Goodwill.

Most of the presidents in my lifetime have sucked, so why would I want to be one? I was once President of a small non-profit organization but I didn't like it and didn't inhale.

Well I stopped the alcohol a few months after I got married for health reasons. Evidently I'm allergic to it. Go figure. So it's been nearly 20 years without a drop....and to be honest I don't miss it.

I remember being on the air on Z100 filling in on How's Your Love Life and the topic of "everyones" tried drugs came up. I spoke up and said I hadn't. The caller didn't believe me, but when I explained that I had made a pact with myself years earlier that I had no reason to try, it still didn't convince them. I had plenty of opportunities and was around pot at several parties I attended. The smoke gave me a headache, so I usually left the party at the point.

The Super-Prude Goody-Goody Drug-Free club ain't so bad. My kids are members too.

Ain't being a positive role model fun?

I smoked dope but I didn't inhale....

Can I have an intern?

Edselehr-I'd say being an honest role model is more of what I try to be.

I got stories I'm not proud of and I bring them up when I feel my kids will benefit from them.

Parenting is by far one of THE most humbling experiences.

Totally agreed.

One thinks they know themselves... then kids show up!

I have never used illegal drugs, never wanted to.
I drink occassionally, but again, I don't like the feeling of being out of control.

People that use drugs, try to justify it with the lie, everyone does it.

If Obama admits using drugs, makes me wonder what other crimes he commited.

And what if had committed other crimes? Were you planning on voting for him but now you are questioning it?

Nope, would never even consider voting for him. But elections are won and lost by the perception of a few truly undecided voters, and every little thing can hurt or help.

And the election will probably be decided in a couple of relatively conservative states, Fla and ohio.

"If Obama admits using drugs, makes me wonder what other crimes he committed."

Not to sound preachy but the bible has stories of people who committed murder: Moses, David, Abraham. Those folks went on to do some pretty important stuff. Do you wonder if they committed other crimes too?

Have you ever the read the story of the guy who started "Dave's Killer Bread?" Spent 15 years behind bars. Made him rethink his priorities. He now runs a very successful company.

Life is about many things and I believe one of those things is called second chances.

A black man running for President in the US has many obstacles already in his path. Holding him to something he did while being young should not be one of them.

Who here is not guilty of youthful stupidity?

So Nwokie, Obama, because of your wondering of other crimes he may have committed ( even though his criminal record is available - so you CAN stop wondering, if you want ) you think others still will wonder to the degree that will make them change their already open mind?

Please. You are someone who already would never vote for him based on things you already legitimately disagree with him upon. So who is it that you are trying to speak for or convince? You keep talking about reality vs. perception. What's the reality? What's the perception? Are you just saying " There are people who will be fooled by the perception." Yeah. You know why they are? Because of people like you who keep feeding the false perception that there ARE other crimes that he has committed. Even though there aren't.

Let's say that I was considering voting for him. Should I listen to you as a compass for that? Who are you talking to or about when you spout your armchair, let-me-show-you-the-real-solution type " knowledge?" For cryin' out loud Nwokie, you quote The Onion to support your points. Forgive me if I dismiss your critical thinking skills a tad more quickly than I otherwise may. I think reasons like that are much more of a realistic way to decide whom to listen.

And Chris, I would feel a lot better if I had to go back to my childhood to cite something stupid I have done. I only have to go back to Saturday. Which is why, among many other reasons, I will not seek, nor shall I accept the nomination for President Of The United States.

Nwokie writes:
People that use drugs, try to justify it with the lie, everyone does it.

If Obama admits using drugs, makes me wonder what other crimes he commited.

Did you have doubts about voting for George W. Bush? (I assume you voted for him?) Or were you really naive enough to believe his non-denial denials about using drugs?

When Bush lied to a reporter about being arrested for drunk driving, did you have doubts about what other crimes he may have committed?

Andrew

No, but I wasn't undecided either. Elections aren't decided by those that are firmly for either candidate, their decided by those in the middle. And every little thing counts.

How many votes will Hillary or Obama lose, because of the attacks on each other, in the general election?

You would think the Democrat's would wise up and throw mud at the Republican's instead of each other!

Patience, DT. First they have to sort out the nominee. The GOP are eating their own right now, too. That's why each side wants a clear front-runner ASAP so they can stop campaigning against each other and unify against the other party.

Everyday I receive an email that has a bible verse and a short commentary. Great way to start each day.

Today's scripture seemed somewhat appropriate where this thread is currently.

"Surely there is no one on earth so righteous as to do good without ever sinning."

- Ecclesiastes 7:20

Ah, I see. You got sling a little mud before you can fart in the mud puddle.

Well that's an interesting interpretation but I can work with it.

DT was responding to my post...I think.

Oh....

Well it would have made for a nice interpretation no matter what scripture I posted...don't ya think?

"makes me wonder what other crimes he commited."

Apparently undecided voters loved the coke-snorting, DUI-driving, partying AWOL national guardmans enough to vote for him TWICE! I think Obama will get a pass.