Bremerton, Washington.

This from The New York Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2007/12/22/2007-12-22_man_protests_comm ercialized_christmas_by.html

Bonus: It's on a (modified) FESTIVUS pole! Awesome!

It seems to me that people used to complain about Christmas being commercialized. But until the last couple of years, "Christmas" has been replaced with the word "Holiday" in almost every public setting. Personally, I'm just glad that Christmas is back. As long as the holiday itself isn't ignored, I'm fine with it being "commercialized".

I think it's brilliant! It perfectly captures the mess we've made of it.

Frankly, I think the liberal ideal of tolerance lies along the solid path to getting over this crap. Had a conversation the other day, with some clients. We all got to the well wishes part and stumbled! Nobody wanted to hose it up, because we had a great work experience. Lots of fun, goals accomplished, etc... Was a feel good kind of time, but then this...

I finally said to break the silence, "I'm a Merry Christmas kind of guy, you?", they replied with their preference, we all talked about that, and everybody got two things done:

-we all expressed our wish for the others to have a great time during the holidays, family healthy, etc...

-we understood each other, and understood those differences to be no big deal. (and they aren't, dammit, unless you've allowed somebody else to convince you they are --think hard about that.)

One of them didn't really do Christmas for religious reasons. Instead of the usual, "oh.", I replied, "Yeah? Tell me about it." He did! Was an interesting conversation, and nice to just know something about this other person, and really nice to let them know it was totally ok to share that stuff. No worries, no fear, just making friends.

What was normally a short conversation, ended up going for some time. Everyone laughed, shook hands, and parted, knowing the others felt good about the exchange. That's where it is all at people. I had been planning that effort ever since the whole war on christmas crap last year.

Played out just like I thought it would too.

If this issue matters to you (and it does me, simply because we should not have to stumble on these conversations), take some time to grok how somebody else celebrates, exchange your best wishes, get to know them, and let them know you wish them the best, however they do things at this time of year.

We are all people. All of us see one another and nobody wants anybody else to feel bad, or guilty or anything else negative, during what should be a positive time. If you express that, instead of trying to turn a greeting into some kind of bizzare advocacy, others will return it in like kind.

(and if they don't, it's their own damn fault, leaving you to feel good anyway, knowing you have the higher ground.)

If there is a war, it's on tolerance and understanding of our own peers! Fight that, and the rest of this crap goes away, IMHO.

The simple reality of it is:

This time of year is exactly what YOU think it is, and that's OK, as long as you feel good about it, period.

The reason we are seeing "Holiday", instead of something more specific, is gross failure, on the part of a significant fraction of us, to both understand and have the character to deal with that reality.

Merry Christmas everyone, and a Happy New Year!

The "War on Christmas" was worded a little too strongly. I would have called it an "ignoring of Christmas". People have citied O'rielly and others for this campaign, but it's been bothering me since the mid 90's. Let's not pretend like the awkwardness began recently with the "War on Christmas" campaign. It began a long time ago when corporations began trying to not offend anyone, and told their employees to wish customers "happy holidays", and to not mention Christmas (as employees of Sears were told in 2005, and my friend was told back in 1996 when he worked at Safeway). The last couple of years, the stores have wised up, and realized that they were offending the MAJORITY now, not the minority.

The reality is that Christmas is the only official Holiday recognized by the US Government in December. Therefore, it should not be a problem to mention the holiday, because it literally exists in an official manner; the holiday is there, and I hope it's a good day for you, even if you don't celebrate it.

I mean "People have **critisized O'rielly** and others..."

Danm spell checker!

IMHO, it's not a majority or minority issue. It's simple lack of tolerance, and or fear of that lack, playing itself out.

If people are understanding of one another, then there are zero worries about expressing well wishes at this time. Should one receive a "merry christmas" and be one that does not celebrate it, the intent is still to convey well meaning sentiments! Take that, feel good about it, and people then just do their thing, whatever that is.

Really, I almost see it as some sort of bizzare entitlement thing. People expect to be presented with their holiday view, or are somehow offended! I don't get that, particularly when said exchange is a first time, or casual one where the other party cannot know enough to accomplish it.

From there, the battle then rages about what is the right thing for everyone. Why?

BECAUSE THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER.

Sorry, but being human and decent takes effort. Corporations see that kind of thing as over head. People of low tolerance see it as offensive, or some other negative thing.

Make the effort in earnest, mean it, and share, and all is good, period.

For me it boils down to whether I know you or not. If I know someone, then I wish them merry Christmas. If I don't, then I may say "have a good holiday." When someone I don't know wishes me a merry Christmas, I find it tad presumptuous. And, it's usually fake anyway. People like Bill O'Reilly are just upset that we aren't a white christian male dominated society like we were back in the 50's and uses the holiday as a way to rally his weak minded followers.

As far as commercialization goes, I think that it's become grotesque. I went to the mall yesterday and was shocked at how crowded the mall was. And I'm sure most people are out spending money they don't have to buy gifts to impress others that don't give a crap about them anyway. Rather that paying down their credit cards or putting some extra money in their retirement account, Americans are out buying crap they don't need and can't afford. And the excuse is Christmas. Just think, Charlie Brown thought it was bad back in 1965. If these so-called war on Christmas loonies actually cared about Christmas, they'd be less worried about a greeting and more worried about the bastardization of the holiday itself.

You're spot on Vitalogy on the commercialization of Christmas.

I have no problem with Christmas (or Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or however anyone celebrates it religiously), and I think that we should all embrace the spirit of the holiday, sure.

The commercialization and expectations of it all though ... to be honest, it has turned me into the world's biggest Scrooge. Our nation is plunging further and further in debt. There is a mortgage and credit crisis in the United States. Wages are flat, and adjusting for inflation are DOWN over the last several years. Yet it's "BUY BUY BUY", he with the most toys wins, let's go FURTHER in debt ... oh wait, we can all go to Wal-Mart and buy shoddily made crap that breaks down instantly and support the Chinese economy! Yeah, THERE'S the Christmas spirit!

It also puts people on edge. As you can imagine, PDX has been ... well, CRAZY ... the last few days, and I swear someone pissed in everyone's Corn Flakes. Some of us who truly dislike this time of the year try to put it aside, and those with the Christmas Cheer try turn into killjoys. Bahhhhh ...

Screw it, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and all that.

Everyone here gets it, no surprise! I would quote all of you, but...duh! Why don't so many others get the "DUH" moment? Why must general intolerance manifest itself so strongly when the whole point is to embrace and give thanks and well wishes? Carry that through the rest of the year, everyone benefits. The pushback just reminds me of us kids with a baseball bat, seeing who gets to bat first! When did being nice become a competitive sport?

Sorry about the RANT, I promise to take a deep breath and get centered

There is only one Federal Holiday in December, and it's Christmas. If I meet someone I don't know, I need not be presumptuous when I wish them a Merry Christmas. The one thing I know about them is that they are in the United States of America. So, I mention the one Holiday that is recognized by our Government.

Those on the left keep pretending like it's the conservatives who want to swoop in and change things. Actually, no. It's the left who decided Christmas is taboo in public settings some years ago, and many Americans REACTED to that. What you see now is a reaction, and an attempt to put things back the way they were before we worried about offending people with minority viewpoints.

So the answer is then to simply not engage any of the crap. Who started what does not matter right now, here, with any of us does it? No.

Is there anything to win? No.

Do what you will, for whatever reason you will. Give others that same consideration, and all is good!

Simple, easy, clean, happy --just the way this time of year should be.

Some people just have no tact.

The word "Christmas" is ignored. They now say "We have all things Holiday!" That was dumb, when i heard it. They should have said "We have all things for your Holiday." But now i'm tired of the word holiday! The muslims get to pray wherever they are, but christains can't and can't even mention God or Jesus at school. That's not fair!

Where has it been that one could not pray?

I think anyone can pray when and where they want to. That's a personal thing, and easily done.

As for the mentioning, that's different than prayer, and complex too. Self expression, in this way is permitted. So that means one's binder, clothing, etc...

One person talking to another --all good. That's self expression, and a willing conversation on both sides.

Educator, talking to students on class time? Well, that's leveraging the public dollar, also it's a forced conversation, unless religion in general is the topic of discussion. (and this should be a class in school, IMHO! Comparing the different religions is a worthy class topic, and one where students can get involved and express themselves.

Captive audiences are not generally the time and place for those kinds of things to be discussed.

Some stuff is being co-mingled here. Probably worth a thread or two to sort out fairness.

"Where has it been that one could not pray?"

Clark County Vocational Skill Centre, circa 2001, 2002 in the Restaurant Management programme, as stipulated by A-- M-- & G-- R--.

If anyone was caught praying we would basically be ridicuuled to no end and a formal warning would be issued to the class. That actually happened to somebody in the Afternoon class--one of the students was praying before working one of the dinners, his first time as a waiter and there was G-- standing over him with the most cross (NPI) look on his face I have ever seen. And yes, we heard all about it, albeit heavily distorted in facts, the very next day in class.

But naturally they didn't seem to have any problem with the two Jehova Witnesses in our class passing around their literature.

(I.M.H.O., that session at the Skill Centre was probably the biggest waste of my senior year I could have ever imagined.)

They also insisted that we refer to Christmas specifically as "December 25th Holiday" (I did *not* make that up just now) or the lassic "Winter Holiday" (even worse yet) and wish each other "Season's Greetings". If there's only one thing I hate more than "Happy Holidays" it is "Season's Greetings".

As usual, I kept on referring to it as "Christmas" and insisted on wishing to people that theirs be Merry as well. Screw their flawed ideology.

And at that, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone. Especially to the both of you, A-- M-- and G-- R--!! (If you are lurking here and have read this, you both know who you are......)

Wow. Major bummer.

IMHO, somebody needs to hammer that place hard. A simple prayer, for whatever reason, harms no one. Should always be permitted period.

That's just self-expression and is protected speech!

I've a beef with the passing of literature to what is essentially a captive audience. Either all the literature is made available, or none of it is made available, but no working the locked in crowds should be ok.

I wouldn't even dignify the crap that the JW's pass out as "literature."