Religious taboos vary a lot from culture to culture and are somewhat mysterious to me, but I think that making the violation of these taboos punishable by inprisonment goes a bit too far.

Recently Gillian Gibbons, a teacher at a Sudanese school, was arrested for naming a teddy bear Mohammed. During a lesson, Gibbons asked her seven-year-old students what name they would like to give to the bear. The students picked Mohammed, which is a popular boy's name in Sudan. Gibbons then wrote the name down on the bear (this is what the news report said; more likely, she made some kind of name tag and attached it to the bear).

Apparently, in the Sudanese culture, it is considered an insult to name an animal after a human. Giving the name Mohammed to an animal is thus considered an insult to Islam and is thereby punishable by that country's anti-blasphemy laws. The concept appears to extend to the naming of an innanimate object that resembles an animal.

The whole thing is stupid. It demonstrates why one cannot reason with extreme fundamentalist Muslims. They're stuck in the middle ages! Large groups of people were actually calling for that woman's execution, and she could have been whipped as a punishment!

I have lived in several foreign countries, and you have to accept, you are a guest, and the local customs, which may be different or strange, have to be respected.

Nwokie is right. Even as strange as it may seem you have to live within the customs of that culture.

A few, actually a lot, of years ago, I was working in Singapore, and the Stars and Stripes, as well as other US paters, had a story about how horrible, so teenager from the states was visiting Singapore, and he thought it would be fun to spray paint graffitti on some cars, he was cought, and canned, (canning is whre their stripped aand smacked on the back and buttocks with a cane).

I thought it was appropriate, no permanant damage, and the message should have sunk in, don't spray paint cars that don't belong to you!

I hope that never happens here, i'd have to name my Jack-Ass something other than "George".

I agree 100% that if one is visiting (i.e. a guest in) another country, it is one's responsibility to obey the local laws and customs.

As a side note, according to a co-worker who is a former Navy guy, the American grafitti artist who got "caned" in the mid-1990s got off easy! The actual caning punishment used in Singapore uses a cane that is coated with sugar and salt. This gives the cane an abrasive action that can cut flesh to the bone! The teenager who spray-painted cars merely received hits with a switch, which does not cause open wounds.

Once there was this kid who took a trip to Singapore and brought a lot of spray paint
And when he finally came back
He found cane marks all over his bottom
He said that it was from when the warden whacked it so harrrrdddd.....

Mmm mmm mmm mmm, Mmm mmm mmm mmm
*whoop* Aaaahhhhh!!

-"Weird Al" Yankovic

"It demonstrates why one cannot reason with extreme fundamentalist Muslims. They're stuck in the middle ages!"

I would go a tad further and apply this to all religious fundamentalists, not just Muslims.

By reasoning with, you mean they adopt your attitudes, and give up their beliefs?

Sure, obey local laws. But when you're ignorant of a law, and the reason for the law is because of small-minded ignorance, you should NOT be whiped, jailed, or executed. I can see deporting the offender, but she did not deserve to be punished as a criminal. It would be different if the offense had injured person or property.

Pardoned School teacher set to leave Sudan......
Teddy bear sentenced to death....

Film at 11

Well, some of our laws look pretty stupid to them. Different cultures, different attitudes.
If you go to another country you need to learn something about it.

If you find out your wifes having an affair, and shoot her, your going to jail here, in some countries their going to say, "whats with that", or something like that.

OH the Humanity! Avert your eyes if you are squimish!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pFI3JOyoFs

Muslims take the name of Muhammed (PBUH) very seriously. They name sons after him in pride and hope the child will resemble him in thought and deed, in much the same way people of other cultures name their sons "Jesus"...Agreed it is an extreme reaction, in our view.

Muslims also take the "worshipping idols" thing very seriously, which is why no likeness of Muhammed (PBUH) exists in their world. The life-like representations of Christ and all the saints look like blasphemy to them, because the argument can then be posed, "Is it the sculpture or the teachings" that brings you to worship? So, naming a child's toy for the Prophet would be very disturbing, in that light.

Yes cause they protect the image of a make believe man and beat their wives. Thats some good religion there. Strap a bomb to a 14 year old kid and send him in to blow up innocent people but call a teddy bear Muhammed and thats going to far?

Bunch of wackos. I have my issues with religion and despise most of it but I have to say muslims just anger me the most.

We have our own fair share of believers in make believe men and domestic violence here, as well as people bomb buildings and shoot doctors.

We call them extremists and terrorists, too.

Hopefully they are not truly representative of the religions they claim to follow, either.

"and the local customs, which may be different or strange, have to be respected"

Nope. Not always. I'll never accept the Saudi custom of stoning women. I'd say we give them the finger and buy us all Piruses.

> I'll never accept the Saudi custom of stoning women.

I would hope that the Saudis don't expect visitors to stone women. From what I have heard from an English language instructor who works in Saudi Arabia, it is very unlikely that any of us will ever have to worry about visiting that country anyway: getting permission to enter Saudi Arabia is very difficult.

When I think of "observing local customs," I tend to think more of refraining from doing things that people might find offensive and, to a lesser extent, making a good faith effort to follow social protocols. Examples:

+ Don't swear in the Netherlands
+ Remove your shoes when entering a Japanese home
+ Be aware that in some Asian societies, the number 4 is unlucky
+ Don't show the soles of your feet (or shoes) to Middle Eastern people
+ Follow local standards of modesty when selecting clothing (i.e., no shorts or skirts on the Middle East)
+ Properly use the formal and familiar forms of addressing people when speaking languages that make this distinction

The one theme that all of these converge on is respect.

Update:

A 54-year-old British teacher who was convicted in Sudan of insulting Islam's prophet when she allowed her seven-year-old students to name a teddy bear Muhammad was pardoned yesterday (December 3rd) by President Omar al-Bashir. Gillian Gibbons had been sentenced to 15 days in prison and was jailed for more than a week before being released yesterday and put on a plane to Dubai, from where she was traveling on home to Britain. Al-Bashir agreed to pardon Gibbons after meeting with two Muslim members of Britain's House of Lords and after she sent him a statement saying she hadn't mean to offend anyone. Gibbons had been held at a secret location since thousands of protesters marched in Khartoum Friday (November 30th) demanding that she be executed. They were spurred on by hardline clerics who contended Gibbons intentionally meant to insult Islam.

First off the teddy bear was name Muhammad after one of the kids there and second, how is it ok to name a kid Muhammad but not a teddy bear?

And why is there always that one or two people that use the same argument, "well their customs are different then ours, we shall not judge"

Hell with that, Ill judge all I want on them and their backwards ass country, dirt house living, wife beating, threaten to kill everyone who is not muslim and or Jewish ass!

Mc74, read Entre_nous' 8:31pm post - I think that explains the Muslim perspective about naming inanimate figures after the Prophet quite well.

As for them being a backwards ass country, look at the commercial orgasm Christmas has become and tell me which belief pays more respect to their holy prophets.

Thank you, Edselehr, for understanding my point.

I do not condone the behavior of extremists of any stripe, and, as pointed out, this whole bruhaha was started by a bunch of clerics with an agenda.

I just rechecked both Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya, and did not find any support for Mc74's statement regarding the bear being named after one of the students, although I would assume there were many of that name...it is highly respected, after all, which is why 20 of 23 students picked it.

I was going to link the pages, but they won't work. The story is still on the front page of English Al Jazeera on the "Africa" main page link.

The school was privately run by Christians, BTW, and of course, no insult was intended. The Sudanese government seems to have done their very best to protect Ms. Gibbons, by all accounts ( I checked the Arabic versions too).

Generally speaking, I find that those who demand other countries must accept our American behavior when we visit them, also are the ones who insist visitors to our country behave like Americans immediately upon arrival...

I also question what has become of Christmas. Even in my not-totally-gung-ho-religious upbringing, there was room for the real message all the prophets from Moses on down tried to teach.

My brother and sister-in-law lived in Saudi Arabia for 4 years. They were teachers and lived on an American compound. Anytime my sister in law went into the city or left the compound she had to cover her head and abide by local laws and customs.

Showing respect for the culture in which you are visiting has always been the best decision.

I lived in Australia for a short time. Went to school there, played their sports and was apart of many other activities. I learned to blend in and just be another kid in school.

During a two week period another American boy from Florida joined the class. His parents pretty much dumped him off during the day. It was the worst 2 weeks for me. He was truly the ugly American spoiled child. He tried to teach my classmates American football. He was loud and disruptive and arrogant. He had a since of entitlement because he was American.

I was soooo happy when he left. As were my classmates.

Chris,

I'm glad your classmates had you for contrast.

My son works in Japan, teaching english to children, and has told me that he is constantly aware that he represents his country, and that his behaviour will influence the way his students will grow up perceiving Americans.

Apparently his predecessor made it her mission to evangelize as many as she could, and he had to do some damage control at first.

Because a kid, is a living human being, and it is a sign of respect. A teddy Bear is an inaminate object and it is an insult to Mohammad to name an inaminate object, or an animal after him.

Some of our culture seems outrageous to them.

Jeez, you'd think at least some of her seven-year-old students would have known better, wouldn't you?

It's possible the students were not all Muslim, and although Muslim children start memorizing the Qur'an at a very young age, they may not 'get' the finer points of understanding until further studies of Ahadith begin.

If I had never seen a car, it wouldn't occur to me to ask "What are cars?" Oversimplified, but hopefully makes sense.

Mistakes happen, and can be forgiven: it's the intention that gets people going, IMHO.

"Apparently his predecessor made it her mission to evangelize as many as she could, and he had to do some damage control at first."

Amus I have been witness to that too many times in a variety of situations.

When my wife and I did Rock of Ages on Z100 we often mixed Contemporary Christian with what you might call postive pop/R&B. We took a few songs from Z100s format and mixed it with Christian music. And it worked nicely. Made the songs from Z's format sound even better.

Most people really enjoyed that mix of sacred with secular. However there are always a few feeling we are "watering" down the gospel. Talk about God in a box.

I don't break my world down into sacred and secular. I'm the whole package and it really balances me out. I'm also not about to place my views on to others without being first being asked. Once the door is open I'll gladly walk through, but if it's not offered I don't try and break the door down.

Truly sad because that was not the way Jesus did things.

Chris,

Know that your "quiet evangelism" displayed here, is one thing that gives me hope for Christianity as it seems to be practiced in this country right now.

I grew up in a Catholic family, then went to my wifes church after we were married (30 yrs now), and have become very disillusioned the last few years about how it all seems to have strayed from what I was taught it all means.

If you go to a foreign country, you have to know the rules of that country. If you go to Turkey, you can practice any religion you want, but if you try to prostilize(sp) a Moslem you can go to jail.

The US is probably the freest country, for expressing beliefs, on a wide range of subjects. If you go to Germany and say nice things about Hitler, you can go to jail, if you go to France and display a Nazi Flag ,in its original colors, you can go to jail.

> It's possible the students were not all Muslim, and although Muslim children start memorizing the
> Qur'an at a very young age, they may not 'get' the finer points of understanding until further studies
> of Ahadith begin.

I think that it is reasonable to assume that the taboo against naming animals and inanimate objects after Mohammed would be beyond the understanding of the seven-year-old students in the class. From their point of view, Mohammed is just a popular name for a boy.

So now its ccoming down to ignorance is an excuse to break the law?

There is a reason why places like this country and most non oil Muslim countries are dirt poor, their stupid beliefs about an imaginary man keep them in the mid-evil times.

Can you imagine had Hitler won the war, by your rules of respecting other peoples stupid laws, more jews would be killed and we would all be forced to be ok with it? Fuck that. Take a fucking stand and have a backbone, just because its their laws does not make it right. I suppose you agree with the way the Saudis treat women?

We bash our own religious leaders on a daily basis but everyone has to be political correct and sympathetic towards this?

Yeah Mc, it's pretty silly to just focus on the woman, and not the whole picture. There should be tolerance on both sides.

Clearly, the woman should have known where she was and the implications of that. So, she's in jail. Lucky she didn't get executed or stoned or something.

On the other hand, it's bad ass back asswards! Should highlight to the rest of the world, how much work needs to be done there.

They, of course, know she's from places where expression is not so tightly regulated.

I personally don't think it's possible to justify laws that violate peoples freedom of thought, freedom, bodies, etc...

The law is not some absolute thing. Why do you think we have the system we do? It's full of courts, checks, balances and such because the law evolves, grows and serves us better over time as we deliberate it, test it, grow to understand both it and our own selves.

It's never ok to say, "but it's the law". Better to say we have laws for that, and they are just because of...

We once had laws about colored people. Too many people saying, "it's the law, they should know better" kept those flawed laws strong. At some point, some of us said, "we have this law, and it just because..." and there was nothing there!

Colored people are not lesser people, from the devil, or any other nut job justification. They are just people, with differently colored skin!

Those laws fell.

Ideally, that woman will spend her time in jail, not feel bad about it, be smarter about where the law there currently stands, and walk tall, knowing a whole lot of people are starting to ask:

"they have this law, and it's just because...."

Fuck that indeed!

OK, Misssing, point well taken. It is incomprehensible to us, and we don't like it. But it's up to them to change, don't you think?

We, the people, changed the laws you mentioned. We are still changing, evolving, like you said, and the law hopefully evolves with us. Who should be doing the work to change their system?
Us? We've done such a fine job everywhere else we've tried to "help", and socially speaking, I would not hold up the many Britneys as an example...

Shouldn't there be a better offer on the table, much like what you said about punishment? I'm really not tryin' to get in your kitchen, just askin'

Yes Missing, you are right on most of your points, but who changed the laws, we did, not outsiders. We can't force our laws and beliefs on others.

Hmmmm

What is it that we are doing in Iraq right now?

Iraq, by its own leaders statements was a threat to US interests. So we removed that threat. We are now assisting the Iraqi's in setting up a new government.

Just as we assisted W Germany in establishing a new government, after we eliminated them as a threat to US interests.

> But it's up to them to change, don't you think?

I think that's 100% correct. This principle applies in a broad range of situations: if a person (or society) does not want to change, externally trying to force change will either be unsuccessful or the cost, in terms of consequences will be very great. The first time that I saw this expressed was around age 10, while reading some comments in Highlights magazine about trying to "make" parents stop smoking.

In this case, it appears that the Sudanese authorities were understanding of the fact that Gibbons, being a foreigner, would be likely not to be aware of the finer legal and cultural implications of what she did. They let her off with what some would consider a "slap on the wrist."

I am not a fan of anti-blasphemy laws, but it is important to remember that before the advent of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, some strict anti-blasphemy laws were in effect in some of the American Colonies.

So if I get this right, we initiate a political coo, provide military support for our/their new government, fund that nations rebuild/restructureing, and all for what? OIL. All this under the premise of invadeing to eliminate WMD's!

I Call "BULLSHIT".

Hey let's go in and get rid of their WMD's. Say boy's, while we are there what say we topple a governemnt system that his been in place since the country has been in existence then hang around and get shot at in support of it. Maybe for our trillions of dollars and unnecessary loss of life they will drop crude by ¢.05 a barrel.

Nwokie: except that there was GLOBAL support for that, yes.

Alfredo: you hit the nail on the head (and missed your thumb)!

DT: I second your calling of BS. You are absolutely right, not that any of you need affirmation from me. Just saying I'm with ya on it.

Global support? A lot but not global, Spain was against an allied victory, as was a lot of South American countries, and Mexicao was at most neutral.

Random Thought!

For those of you who do not believe in Jesus Christ, you will not have anyone to talk with when you hit your thumb with that hammer!

Random Random Thought!

When you hear an upset parent say "Jesus H Christ" what does the "H" stand for? I always wondered about that but never thought about asking. So when other people with different beliefs get upset do they say "Hare H Krishna" or "Budah Damn"?

But it's up to them to change, don't you think?

Absolutely.

However, we can totally engage in some kick ass advocacy. This is a biggie for me. Being American means our entire being is all about justice, high respect for the law, and most importantly, law and government that serves us, the people, to the highest degree possible, without unjust checks on our personal freedom.

This is my biggest beef with our current government! We just don't eat our own dog food. With that failure, so goes the advocacy, and with that advocacy, goes the hope, the information, the simple knowing there is a more solid path for people to take.

It sucks, and it sucks huge.

Of course they must change. Without an example to follow, they may change, then again, they may not. Ignorance and dogma are powerful things. Social norms are powerful things.

Information --understanding, just the knowing there are options, trumps all of that, but can only do so, if those setting the example, set it just and true.

Advocacy --in the form of real conversations, between people, is what helps us as a race to be better tomorrow than we are today. This is perhaps the first elementary thing I ever believed in --believed with real conviction, like the "I'll die for that" kind of conviction.

It's an absolute truth! We don't have many of these known to us, but this is one of them.

That woman can get outta jail, write a book, start some stuff that's gonna make just a few of those people over there ask the question, "we have this law and it's justified by what?"

In dark corners, basements, on the Internet (and now you know why nations are so damn hot to regulate the Internet!), via letters, maybe just whispers somewhere, they will talk and ask why.

That will empower them to change. Might take time, but it absolutely will do this. There is no question. As a race, our history is filled with exactly this.

I think how she was treated was complete shit. But, their ignorance only empowered someone, who might otherwise not have been empowered. Think of it this way:

Pull that stunt on 1000 people. 999 are gonna leave, never to return, maybe tell their story, but will value their own safety over better ideals, safe in their enlightened land, full of their more enlightened peers.

One of them is gonna say, "fuck that", and that's all it takes. Maybe this story will trigger that one strong person, of character, willing to start to go the distance.

This is why employers do not want people to talk about wages. This is why we are always distracted with media, divisive politics, labels, kept poor, working hard, lacking energy to actually just talk!

Talking shares understanding, validates selves, empowers people with hope, and generally gives meaning to "knowledge is power". That is literally true, but most people are either too tired, scared, or ignorant, having not had the right conversations, to benefit from it.

eg: I once asked how to understand something. 5th grade teacher replied, "It's all about learning to ask the right questions!" One simple phrase triggers a life long passion? What are the right questions? How does one find out? Who to ask? When?

To somebody, who understands they can just ask --and believes it, as I did long ago, hearing a few simple words can literally empower somebody well beyond their otherwise limited means.

Take that simple phrase and consider it. How would you figure out how to ask the right questions?

Knowing nothing?

Start asking some then? Some work better than others, and there it starts. First you find some people give better answers. Then you find that how you word the question yields better answers. Then the order of the questions becomes better still.

We are amazing beings in that we can model the world, compare what we observe to that model, formulate possible answers, boil them down to core ideas that make or break those ideals, and with a single, well phrased question, strike at the heart of truth.

Yeah, I don't like what happened. But, I think plenty of good can come from it. Better to focus on the change, how to leverage what happened, communicate it, understand it, and empower those still suffering with it.

DT: Believe or not, the emotional connotation of those words, triggers a release that's desirable.

Ever wonder why it's considered uncouth to scream in most situations? Screams are raw emotion, vocalized, raw, unpolished, human things.

It's the mental connection that does it for us, and nothing else. Profanity, blasphemy, etc... are just reasoned screams! So, the person you are talking to really is your own self!

Consider it thearapy man, because that's exactly what it is. If one cannot express a thing, said thing consumes the mind, bottled up, unclosed, harmful. The expression is the release, however uncouth, it is still closure to the person struggling with something they cannot address otherwise.

Next time you are in your car, evoke some memory of something painful --something not yet closed in your mind. Think about it, visualize it, let the emotion boil up and feel it! Then scream it!

Shed fear, inhibition, reason, and just express it.

You will find it gone, or significantly diminished after successfully expressing it. Hold back, and it's false. Won't work. Gotta be true, raw, human about it, and it does.

Primal screaming...HELL Yeah! It does work, if you really want to make that "thing" powerless. I love it! Funny how little kids do it all the time, when they're really frustrated about something, and can't express it any other way.

I hope the kind of conversations for change you described are happening when visiting students and tourists go home. I really hope they get to see the good side of things here, our humanity, if that's what you want to call it, and not the freak show that seems to always take center stage. We see too often how our system is broken (homelessness, crime rate, substance abuse...) and not nearly enough of how it's working.

We can help that happen by giving visitors the good stuff, positive interactions they will always remember, to take home along with their "I heart Portland" t-shirt, IMHO.