http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/11/20/ST2007112002497.ht ml?hpid=topnews

"Former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, buoyed by strong support from Christian conservatives, has surged past three of his better-known presidential rivals and is now challenging former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney for the lead in the Iowa Republican caucuses, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News Poll.

Huckabee has tripled his support in Iowa since late July, eclipsing former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, former senator Fred D. Thompson (Tenn.) and Sen. John McCain (Ariz.). Huckabee now runs nearly evenly with Romney, the longtime Iowa front-runner."

And Ol' Herb called this one months ago.

Herb

In Iowa!!!!
Not enough money to make it through the long haul... It's NOVEMBER 07'!!!!

I'm just glad that the reason that Huckabee has made proress is because of real issues. Look, I could care less if I agree with them or not. It's the WAY he has done it that I like. He has done it bey TRYING to articulate how he feels about tangible problems we ALL want, at the very least, ADDRESSED. That is to say, he's not imporoving by default. He's actually earning it. He's not riding on the coattails of some political show boat. He's his own man with his own ideas. Agree with him or not - it's worthy of respect. That counts for a lot with me.

And while it could appear that my own opinion could be shot down by pointing to how Thompson has slid, with Thompson, well, he just never should have been in there to begin with. So that's how I justify that.

Ahem.

Judging by his Arkansas governership, Huckabee appears to be a true compassionate conservative. He actually raised taxes for kids, and is socially conservative.

I think many Americans would agree with him on many things.

Herb

He actually raised taxes for kids.

WTF!

You've got to be kidding me. How in God's name can you stand for that Herb!!!!!!!

They were already born.

But raising taxes for kids that are already born??? OH MY!
That goes against everything EXTREME Herb stands for....

Not at all.
As long as the money goes to kids and not some labour union like the NEA.
Actually give to the kids, not some union with their own crooked agenda.

Herb

I agree CJ - he's not an empty suit devoid of any self-thought. The times I've seen him in debate or speaking, he sticks out to me as, well yes a polished politician yes, but someone who actually has a thought process and the willingness to deliver that.

I still disagree with him on too many areas, and I won't ever vote for someone from the Religious Right like him ... but there are far scarier candidates out there.

Herb writes:
Not at all.
As long as the money goes to kids and not some labour union like the NEA.

It just goes to show, Hickabee isn't conservative, just a big government theocrat like Bush.

I suppose you're happy as long as your bigoted anti-faith candidate is elected.

Herb

Let's fix that huh?

Where is the bigotry?

Where is the anti-faith?

Oh, you mean pro-religious freedom, like the founders intended, and like the nation has run for the last hundreds of years, instead of continuing to brand this nation as a Christian one, despite it being composed of many people having many religions?

Really Herb, all that was said was this guy is not really a whole lot different than the current power structure of Bush Republicans. That's neo-conservative, in case you missed the memo.

If he's not all that different, then he's not worth a vote, because things are broken. It's that simple.

The bigotry is on the right. That's a proven fact. This is why gays and minorities don't support the GOP en masse.

And as far as anti-faith, I have yet to see any Democrat running on an anti-faith platform. Most Democrats understand that faith should be a private issue, not something that should be promoted and pushed upon the masses and legislated into law.

By the way, does George W. Bush actually attend church? In his 7+ years of disastrous reign, I've never once seen coverage of him leaving mass like we saw Bill and Hillary Clinton do almost every Sunday. Another example of "do as I say, but not as I do?"

The bigotry is on the right. That's a proven fact. This is why gays and minorities don't support the GOP en masse.

They can BE GAY but not support anything Lesbian or Homosexual???? HYPOCRITES!
I bet anything Nixon was gay!!!

"By the way, does George W. Bush actually attend church? In his 7+ years of disastrous reign, I've never once seen coverage of him leaving mass like we saw Bill and Hillary Clinton do almost every Sunday."

#1. Why would you even care? Going to church makes one as much of a Christian as much as going inside a garage makes you a car. It's not what one does in church, as much as what one does out of church.

#2. Bill and Hillary would not be expected to attend "mass," as they are protestant and likely attend protestant services.

#3. I've seen plenty of photos of president Bush attending church services.

Herb

"I bet anything Nixon was gay!!!"

Mr. Nixon was a long-married man who was also a father. A military vet, he was a man's man. I've read nothing about Mr. Nixon that says he was other than exclusively heterosexual. In fact, he was twice the man of anyone on this board and that includes me.

Herb

#1. Why would I care? Simple, I don't think he attends regularly. Good leaders lead by example. Bad ones do as Bush has.

#2. Mass or services are the same thing as far as I'm concerned, regardless of your brainwashed bent.

#3. I've never seen a photo or TV coverage of Bush attending any sort of service on your average Sunday. Therefore, I question his commitment.

Huckabee gets another celebrity endorsement....

http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=1241

Chuck Norris is for Huckabee. Herb if you haven't seen this you'll love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjYv2YW6azE

Yeah, I heard about the Chuck Norris endorsement.

It's kind of funny, but to be honest, I'm not sure if they intended it that way or not.

They're both pretty good clean-living guys. Neither one is perfect, but certainly no worse than Ted Kennedy or Barney Frank.

Herb

I like the commercial. It catches you off guard because you're not sure if they are being serious or not, which may be confusing for viewers.

However- how often do you see humorous political commercials? At least it's something different.

Mr. Nixon was a long-married man who was also a father.

So was Senator Craig.......

Nice try.

Unless you can provide solid evidence, it's nothing more than liberal drivel.

You lose.

I suppose you're happy as long as your bigoted anti-faith candidate is elected.

Herb, if you only live in parts of the past, you miss very important facts. I was not alive yet, but I have read enough to know that the 1960 election was contentious. It was hard fought and close for many reasons, including religion. Nixon, a Quaker, was facing Kennedy, a Catholic. The whole nation had to face their fears of "believers" in the highest office.

On election day, Nixon and Kennedy were candidates who earned votes for far more than just reading the same leather bound book. They bought the vote with money, just like every man before them. It seems to me, adding In God We Trust to our cash was an admission that the only "Almighty" was the "almighty dollar." After all, regardless of background, as Americans, money is what truly unifies us all.

We may have been One Nation Under God after 1954, but only recently did any administration attempt to define which God our nation had pledged eternal support. In years past, spirituality and faith were acknowledged, and even encouraged, but never ever made such a solid part of a party platform or political agenda. The First Amendment was clearly defined and real Americans respected it.

Both Reagan and Carter were men of faith, but the Baptist Sunday school teacher lost badly to the fellow who consulted astrologers, mediums and Jerry Falwell with equal weight. If quality and depth of spirituality was the only barometer, Carter should have taken Reagan out behind the woodshed. Of course, the separation of church and state is in our Constitution. Jack and Dick knew that, so did Jimmy and Ronnie twenty years later, and by and large, they all respected it.

This current crowd does not give a tinker's damn about the Constitution. Defining our faith, and including faith in the affairs of our nation is somehow acceptable to these folks. Law, as ever, is irrelevant in matters of controlling the actions and the very thoughts of the population. Any GOP candidate of faith runs the risk of being viewed as an extremist because of the last 7 years.

Huckabee ought to be put into the spotlight as a humanist rather than a man of God -- if he is to have a holy ghost of a chance in the primaries. I believe that God is important in a personal and private way, but in America, only money talks loud enough for everyone to hear. The omnipotent power of cash is still one of our proudest remaining traditions. Huckabee has shown what sort of tool he makes out of money. As a southern politician, his devotion to funding social programs rather than class warfare makes him an interesting candidate.

(BTW - Great clip Chris. I laughed -- whether they intended that reaction or not. Amus, I bet that news was hard for the Republicans to sw... oh, never mind.)

"Law, as ever, is irrelevant in matters of controlling the actions and the very thoughts of the population."

I'm not sure if it's irrelevant. Mr. Bush even went through the pathetic UN after our planes were fired upon and also got congressional approval before going into Iraq. You can say you don't like the end result, but he certainly went through the channels before acting.

But again, I'm a Nixon man, not always a Bush man.

Herb

Yeah Herb, and he had to go to Congress for "approval" solely because Congress had to appropriate the funds needed for the invasion.

Now that it has come out that the whole darn thing was based strictly on lies and shoddy intelligence, and Dubya CONTINUES to lie, both sides are wearing egg on their face. Remember, Bush can call for the action but Congress controls the purse strings ... and I wouldn't be surprised to see them snap shut.

"..lies and shoddy intelligence..."

Shoddy intelligence? Perhaps. Incomplete intelligence, certainly.

Lies? Mr. Bush was using essentially the same intel provided to congressional democrats, the UN security council and our European allies, who all deemed Saddam a serious threat...particularly after he gassed his own people.

Incomplete intel, sure. That's not the president's fault. I'd go after him for NAFTA, GATT and the WTO. THERE'S where he's made errors.

Herb

particularly after he gassed his own people.

With gas GIVEN TO HIM BY THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!!!!

Fine, then.
Place the blame where it belongs.
At least you didn't try to tie Mr. Nixon in on it.

Herb

Nope...
Nixon screwed up Nam.

Wrong.

In spite of people like Hanoi Jane and Walter Cronkite, Mr. Nixon got us out of that democrat war he inherited, and with honour.

God bless Mr. Nixon, may he rest in peace.

Herb

"Mr. Nixon got us out of that democrat war he inherited, and with honour."

You mean the same war that he illegally sent troops into Cambodia? The same war where he carpet-bombed Hanoi into the stone ages to get the North to the table in Paris?

It's convenient how you blame Vietnam on Democrats, and yes the main escalation in 1965 DID happen under LBJ's watch. If you study your history book a little deeper, you will discover that the South Vietnamese approached the United States for help in the late 1950s ... when Eisenhower, hardly a "leftist", was President.

That is, unless you burned those history books. I hope they were colored in first!

"You mean the same war that he illegally sent troops into Cambodia? The same war where he carpet-bombed Hanoi into the stone ages to get the North to the table in Paris?"

Wait a minute. Let's give credit where credit is due. You left out Mr. Nixon's mining the harbours at Haiphong to deter the blackhearted communist evil-doers. If my memory serve me right, 'Henry the K' might have been in on that one.

Herb

Mr. Huckabee speaks the truth. I'm sure plenty of republicans don't agree with him, but it's the truth.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071125/D8T4T9E80.html

How would he go about making the United States energy independent in ten years? This I GOTTA hear!

And yes, Herb, he DOES speak the truth. A lot of us on both sides have been leery of the US/Saudi alliance ... not unlike the US/Iranian alliance with the Shah.

We've a reason to be leery of the Saudi/Male alliance as well. I wonder what they're gonna do when Hillary is in Saudi Arabia rinding in a car driven by a non-relative MALE driver -- stone her too?

The next American president needs to be tough with the Saudis and kick em in the balls if needed.

I somehow think that Hillary would have no problem doing that and would probably enjoy it after what Bill did.

As a matter of fact we should send a couple of cases of http://hillarynutcracker.com/completelynuts.html to the middle east for christmas gifts!

Nuking Saudi Arabia is a good start! DUHbya and Co. have been in bed with them and won't do anything! What DUHbya and Co. have done with SA is far worse than the Hummers Slick Willy got in the Oval office. SA funds more terrorism in the world than anyone!!!!!
If Hillary is elected we should INVADE SA! Bomb the living crap out of SA!!!!
Wanna stop terrorism in the world??? TAKE OUT SA!

Sounds good to me, Trixter. I only have one serious question about that.

Will that make the situation in Saudi Arabia better, or worse? Given some of their 'behind the back' actions against the US, like funding madrassahs, one might make the argument that they're funding terror.

Maybe we should consider those oil fields as 'spoils,' or in pirate parlance, 'booty.' Arrgh mateys.

Herb

Nuke them from orbit! We need to start getting rid of DUHbya and Co's friends ASAP! We need to stop funding terror ourselves and STOP enabling DUHbya's friends to get away with MURDER!

Well, no one should get away with murder. The real bad guys are the ones shooting at our troops, whilst blowing up little kids.

Herb

"Well, no one should get away with murder."

And yet.....

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm/page/article/id/8690

If troops from another country invaded Portland, I'd be shooting at them too.

While you were at it, would you strap bombs on little kids, too?

No.

"If troops from another country invaded Portland, I'd be shooting at them too."

Amen Vitalogy. I'd feed you ammo and man the radio.

"While you were at it, would you strap bombs on little kids, too?"

I think that suicide bombers of any age or race are intensely tragic and a stupid waste of a human being. Then again, I have a point of view that is American. I hear gunshots every night and it comforts me to know how well armed we are as a nation. Suicide bombers are the product of a desperation that is utterly counter to American values.

In our land, people love to see their name in the news and their faces on the television. Our culture has bred the idea of "criminal celebrity" since the earliest days of sensational journalism. Our biggest wackos and most violent offenders have been pretty big in the ego and self-delusion department. Now, violent crimes are showcased by the perpetrators on Youtube and Myspace.

No, the kids wouldn't go for that Herb. Get with it buddy, they love guns.

Add:

"What is so often lost in this new debate on accountability and oversight is this fact: private contractors now outnumber regular soldiers on the Iraq battlefield. The military--with its massive bureaucracy--has been unable or unwilling to effectively monitor the actions of its soldiers and prosecute them for crimes. Who will effectively oversee the 180,000-strong shadow corporate army?"

Now, scroll back up and read Amus' post and click for the entire article. This is a website from Veterans who have learned the tragic costs of war first hand. No Americans are more disgusted by Blackwater than our troops both past and present.

I believe domestic and international mercenary forces and corporate armies are totally Un-American. I believe that they will do anything including killing innocent people in Iraq to ensure another paycheck. They do not care about international law, the American way, our troops or the Iraqi people, just the cash and the thrill.

Murderers have been promised a universal pat on the back by the State Department. I am disgusted. In many cases, these are the bad guys. What do you think?

"I hear gunshots every night and it comforts me to know how well armed we are as a nation."

Really? IF, and that's a pretty big IF, someone did "invade" our country, there's enough rifles among legal rifle owners (not handguns) to keep them at bay. Unfortunately, we Americans are also going to have to evade the handgun toting trigger happy thugs, dirty harrys and careless dick cheneys shooting bystanders, themselves and perhaps our armed forces during the invasion and for a period of lawlessness after an "invasion".

This ought not be a comfort. Perhaps we need to build underground bunkers to wait out a period lawlessness until our military disarms the population.

I certainly hope my sarcasm was palpable.

These arguments are really dull without sarcasm.

I am gonna have to find some "and other things" to balance it out. Heck, it aint fun alone, so how about a scavenger hunt? How many "and other things" can we come up with as a group?

The dog isn't burying it, so we gotta police this place with a sack.

OK!

While you were at it, would you strap bombs on little kids, too?

Has anyone INVADED America???? You'd do ANYTHING to defend YOUR country wouldn't you Herb. Specially if UNBORN kids were being killed.

Back on topic, Chuck likes Huck also!

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id=724

Warner- I beat you to this. I posted it earlier in the thread.

"You'd do ANYTHING to defend YOUR country wouldn't you Herb. Specially if UNBORN kids were being killed."

Say WHAT? Let the record show that Trixter has lost it.

Herb

You lost it long ago Herb.

Entering "herb" (or for that matter, "troll") in the PDXradio.com search box will provide pages of conclusive evidence confirming just who has "lost it."

"You lost it long ago Herb."

Care to back up your statement:

"You'd do ANYTHING to defend YOUR country wouldn't you Herb. Specially if UNBORN kids were being killed."

I didn't think so. Lost it long ago, indeed.

Herb

I completely agree with Herb!

Lost it indeed!

That would imply he actually had it in the first place!

BINGO!
Always bringing up ABORTION all the time when you lose an argument! When you can't find any FACT you change the subject and pull out the ABORTION card or the GUN card.
INDEED you lost it long ago. That is the MAJOR reason why YOU get railed on all the time here.
GOODNIGHT NOW!

CHECK IT OUT!!!

It could still fizzle, but I say Mr. Huckabee is now an especially strong contender for VP, if nothing else. Let the record show that I called this one quite some time ago:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/2008_pr esidential_election/election_2008_huckabee_vs_clinton_obama

Care to pull back now on your anti-Huckabee sentiment, Trixter?

Herbert Milhous Huckabee

"Let the record show that I called this one quite some time ago"

The record spoke on you some time ago.

http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=7660

Back to the same old mud slinging.

It's a sorry fact that some here can't put together any defensible argument at all, insisting on pathetically knee-jerk ad hominem attacks.

Herb

Herrbocrite:

Stop accusing people who refuse to engage "do battle" with you as "having no defensible argument". You (and we all) know that to be utter and outright bull-poopy.

As you're fully aware, Herrbocrite, we're very capable of putting together defensible arguments here. We're all fairly intelligent people with a good grasp on the issues and have the ability to make a well thought-out presentation with sources and facts and information backing up our opinions.

If we want to.

If it's worth taking the time and effort to post, we assume it's being read, absorbed, enjoyed, or considered "food for thought" and chewed on by someone we like, or care about, or at least by the person that we shared or directed our response to.

You consistently fail that criteria with me, so as the saying goes, I refuse to mud wrestle with a pig, ham-fisted or not.

Really, the only person who still responds to your posts with any regularity and lengthy insight is Missing, and honestly, I have no idea why sometimes. He consistently writes to you why others here are so darned sick and tired of your posts. You don't ever acknowledge what he writes to you personally, and seem to ignore any friendly advice as to what might make you better-liked here, which I assume you care nothing about. It seems to me that you're only here to irritate and sensationalize while you live in the past and you enjoy that.

So why should I take my time to put forth any effort for you to (not) consider? I try to hard to ignore you, and your bigoted and tired-old-man and Nixon/Castro/commie and Chicken Little terror pronouncements, but that does not mean that I "have no argument", it means that I "have no argument for YOU".

So while I'm mostly on "ignore troll mode", I sometimes feel the need to not let some of your posts to go unchallenged. Especially issues that involve women, since hey, you aren't one.

So I will continue to make my little comments to you personally, because I can, and you've earned them. I am tired of being called a commie leftie pinko ham-fisted ad-hominen et. al over and over and over again, when it's not true.

You reap what you sow, HerrB.

LMAO @ "You reap what you sow, HerrB."

Good One M

Rather than sling mud like a mere handful of hyper-partisan democrats, over the past few weeks I've simply made some rather polite political observations.

And you think being ignored by those who do little more than name-call is punishment? Please.

Herb

M is right Herb, When you get called to the carpet, you Hide under it!

I have no problem being challenged on what I say.
But the ham-fisted ad hominem stuff is pathetically laughable. If those few radicals actually could make a point, they'd try. They can't, so they simply name-call.

From those who only bash, silence is hardly a punishment.

Herb

But you never step up on any of those challenges, at least the important ones anyway!

Right Ham Fist on Green Herb! Spin On Spinner

"TAG"...your in M!

"But you never step up on any of those challenges..."

Step up to ad hominem attacks? Of course not. To a few extremists, their self-hatred and frustration with our current president has simply pushed them over the edge.

To those few, freedom of speech is a fine concept as long as you agree with them.

Herb

"But the ham-fisted ad hominem stuff is pathetically laughable. If those few radicals actually could make a point, they'd try."

Here's an example of Herb complaining and name calling all in one paragraph. Pot, meet kettle.

Even when it's not an attack and is asked in a gracious manner you avoid it!

WTH

OUCH

Damn, I got that stinkin' hook stuck in my typing hand again!

I can do gracious manner. But be realistic in expecting to agree with my answer.

Herb

I would probably agree with you on a great many things but not everything. The point is to have a conversation regarding ones statements and backing them up when called with facts which support your case. That my friend would gain you no end of respect in our little community and as an end result those attacks would mostly go away. If I were to call you on one of your posts or statements, and you supplied credible backing on it, I may not like it but in answering or supplying backing it then becomes completely credible and not just an empty statement or opinion, although we are entitled to those as well. "IMHO" is just that and when used properly would detour many arguements when opinions stated are confused with factual statements from others.

"If those few radicals actually could make a point, they'd try. They can't...",

(Ding! Ding! Ding! Consider HerrB's statement Exibit "A" of my above post. PERFECT!)

"sling mud like a mere handful of hyper-partisan democrats..."

"To a few extremists..."

3 insults in 4 posts; you could've just written "people" but no, you didn't, Mr. Pot.

The funny thing is, I don't consider anyone here to be a "radical" "hyper-partisan" "extremist" or "slinging mud" (besides you, HerrB).

And you? "Polite"? My ass! There's always a big fat "but" attached to whatever your percieved nicety is to effectively negate your "observation".

Prattle on.



Ma Kettle

Care to pull back now on your anti-Huckabee sentiment, Trixter?

NOPE!
America LOVES smoke blown up their collective asses. They've put up with it for 6+ years and LOVED it. At least you and the BUSHies have.

"...backing them up when called with facts..."

I back them up all the time. The DIFFERENCE is that the contrary left is never satisfied. I could provide to a handful of hyper-partisans with a statement from God Himself [that is, if He were believed in by many of these same people] and they STILL wouldn't be satisfied. Some people would rather wallow in their mud-slinging.

Herb

"If those few radicals actually could make a point, they'd try."

Quickly followed by "God-Less" "Wallowing" "Hyper-partisan" "Contrary left", all in one post, even!

As Ellen famously says, "My point is...and I do have one" is that no one wants to "try" with you any more.

Why bother?

You still don't get it.

Sling on, indeed.

I back them up all the time.

WTF???
I ask again...
WTF!!!!

Merky...
Herb will NEVER get it. His "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" mentality is what will get Hillary in the White House.

We're waiting, Trixter.

Facts, please.

Herb

Almost every posts. Just go back and look. Since you don't read anyone else's maybe you read YOURS???

"Hey, kids! Quick, look over here! Trixter's in the well!"

Remind me, HerrB, what exactly are "we" waiting for?

For people to cross his "Troll Bridge" so he can come out from underneath it and spew his prattle on them!

Edit Add:
Trixter and Herb sure conger up nightmares from the old days of Wayner and Pete.

I Miss Pete....

reinstate reinstatepete.....
reinstate reinstatepete.....
reinstate reinstatepete.....
reinstate reinstatepete.....
reinstate reinstatepete.....
reinstate reinstatepete.....

Perhaps "we" are waiting for the truth about Herb. Has anyone ever met Herb? Has anyone ever talked to Herb on the telephone? "We" are long overdue for some speculation.

Perhaps folks, "Herb" is a computer program. Sure, "He" is based in McMinnville -- tucked in a dark corner of the Evergreen compound. It does not take much to believe that "Herb" could stand for "Human Emotional Response Barometer."

"Herb" could have been first developed to scan chatrooms for internet security risks, but has since become a much bigger project. With boatloads of money from Homeland Security, development of the "H.E.R.B." has been brisk.

Now, armed with inflammatory hyperlinks, preprogrammed templates, a few local references and a library of rote responses, the computer simply picks a fight and sees who bites. By finding out exactly who thinks what, our benevolent leaders can build their database.

Collecting enough information to purge the United States of free thinkers, individualists, constitutionalists and idealists is the new mission of the "H.E.R.B." project. The only way to save ourselves and defeat the robot is to ignore him.

Or, perhaps, our technology cannot really create a classic passive aggressive. He might just be a fellow who just cannot abide inner peace and outer tranquility. Either way, I am not bothering to respond to anything remotely political from Herb. Unless it is funny in the plonkiest of ways, it is a demonstrated waste of time.

Add -- Amen to that DT!

"...tucked in a dark corner of the Evergreen compound."

Who gave away my secret?

"...the computer simply picks a fight..."

Actually, more often than not, it's Herb being baited by leftists prowling the board.

Herb

Being baited and biting at it is one thing HerbB, but you just seem to jump in people's boats before they even drop it in the water and then bitch about it when they club you! The good thing though is they can turn you in at the boat launch for $1.00.
And that ain't no Carp...err....Crap.

Dollar a hollar.

Sounds like local radio to me.

Herb

A group called the "Arkansas Eagle Forum" has attacked Huckabee as "not a real Christian"

"Has anyone ever talked to Herb on the telephone?"

My wife has.

If memory serves me, Herb was a regular (if not daily) caller into Lew Davies Show on KPDQ back in the late 80s to early 90s. My wife was the producer of Lew's show and often took callers names and passed them along to Lew.

My wife has shared a few things she recalls about Herb.

That might have been a different Herb, Chris. Although I did call in to Lew's show maybe once or twice.

Regarding Mr. Huckabee, anyone in the Arkansas Eagle Forum who says Mr. Huckabee is not a Christian is probably a tad 'out there.' Mr. Huckabee is a former Baptist minister. For those unfamiliar with denominations, let's just say that while no denomination is perfect, AS A GROUP, Baptists are about as God-fearing and Bible-believing as one gets. And I'm not even a Baptist.

Here's a comment from their former chairman:

A Letter From Rick Calhoun, Former Chairman of the Arkansas Eagle Forum
November 18, 2007
Dear Conservative Friends:

Let me go on record as supporting Mike Huckabee for President of the United States. Now is the time for Christian conservatives to unite behind the only candidate in the upcoming presidential contest who shares our values and vision for America.

As a former Chairman and board member of Eagle Forum of Arkansas, I authored many newsletters that stated: “Eagle Forum of Arkansas embraces a set of values based on Christian principle and Biblical authority. These values must always serve as our guide.” These ideals have delivered political success and blessed evangelicals with influence in national politics. Have we forgotten the Reagan Revolution that changed the course of America?

Former Governor Huckabee shares the values that have always guided Christian conservatives. I am disappointed by attacks launched against Governor Huckabee by a few members of the evangelical community.

Mike Huckabee is our best hope to continue the progress the Christian community has made in recent years. His record is solid on the issues we as Christian conservatives are called to uphold. His record on social issues while Governor of Arkansas speaks for itself. But he is also more than pro-life and pro-family. He worked to implement accountability and efficiency in government and understands the link between economic growth and lower taxes.

I have always admired, and certainly learned from, the way Governor Huckabee treats others and the respect he shows for all - Republican and Democrat alike. I have witnessed first hand his unique ability to work with everyone and the Christian attitude he displays when dealing with those with whom he disagrees. We will never change the hearts and minds of America with hateful remarks or disparaging judgments, but rather by lifting up those Godly principles that we know to be true.

Politics is a natural extension of society’s values and government will always be a reflection of our beliefs - that is why we need to elect as President a man who shares our commitment to traditional values. It’s time for Christian conservatives to unite behind Mike Huckabee - the only candidate shown to be consistent with the values of the Christian community.

Faithfully yours,

Patrick “Rick” Calhoun

Rick Calhoun is an Investment Banker and First Vice President of a regional securities firm in Little Rock. He has served on the board of the Arkansas Policy Foundation, Murphy Commission, and is a former Chairman of Eagle Forum of Arkansas.

http://1truebeliever.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/rick-calhoun-in-support-of-mike-huckabee/

"That might have been a different Herb, Chris. Although I did call in to Lew's show maybe once or twice."


Probably so Herb.

First,

My appologies for posting a reference to the story without posting the link.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3951594&page=1

The flier produced by a group called "Iowans for Some Semblance of Christian Decency" lists a "Betsy Hagan, director of Arkansas Eagle Forum" .

With Mr. Calhoun being a "former" Cairman of "Eagle Forum of Arkansas", perhaps the group is splintering.

But the Eagle Forum definitely has a problem with Huckabee.

"Huckabee's record on education is murky. Randy Minton, former member of the House of Representatives of Arkansas during Huckabee's tenure and current Chairman of the Arkansas Eagle Forum told LifeSiteNews that, as governor, Huckabee would "never buck the Arkansas Education Association" and refused to introduce private school voucher's in his legislative package. However, at the recent Values Voters Debate, Huckabee indicated that he would support private school vouchers."

http://pro.lifewithchrist.org/permalink/36734.html

I think they probably are "a tad out there".
But then so are you.
It's just a matter of degrees.

"...But then so are you."

I provided the link and showed you that the person quoted does not necessarily hold a widely-held view. You're free to think what you think.

Herb

Exactly my point!

By the way,
Have anything to back up a claim that Jimmy Carter "bashes the US all day long" yet?

I heard today on the Dennis Miller show that The HUCKster isn't too keen on Homeland Security. Now Dennis is a Rudi Man so I don't know if that's true but some guy from a website named Politico.com said this.
I might have heard wrong...... I've been wrong before.... AS WE ALL KNOW!

"Have anything to back up a claim that Jimmy Carter "bashes the US all day long" yet?"

I have, but doesn't matter, since you disregard any proof provided.

Herb

Hey, that info was not disregarded. It was read (by more than Amus) and commented on. The exceptions to it being solid were noted, and left hanging.

That's not disregard, it's disagreement Herb. Specifically, it's disagreement on how complete and valid said support for your point really is.

As it stands right now, we've not seen any real consensus that your view is a solid one, nor have we seen any that indicates you've done all you can to meet your burden, despite your implied claim otherwise above.

So go get to some digging man! Take it all the way out, go the distance and let's really see the work. You might be right, but we are not gonna ever know, if you just spin that exchange as complete.

It's not, ball's in your court, which was the point of Amus asking if you had anything else on the matter to offer.

So, does "I have" mean you have done additional work, but don't want to share because you believe it will be ignored? If so, why do the work in the first place? Did you doubt your own self perhaps? One does have to wonder about that...

Or, does "I have" really mean what we've seen so far is all we are gonna see, and it should have been enough, but somehow wasn't, because of... [insert something here]?

Really, I think you are off base, and further discussion will not only make that clear, meaning you might actually have to quit saying "bashes the US all day long", but will also demonstrate that perhaps repeated queries from others might reveal you Herb, having swallowed a lot of kool-aid, you might not feel all the good about.

Which is it?

I have, but doesn't matter, since you disregard any proof provided.

WOW! What a statement made by the KING of disregarding the truth.

Pot... Meet kettle.

All the digging that's needed is Mr. Carter dissing our president's plan to fight terror, whilst attacking our allies with the same ham-fist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/washington/20carter.html

That's the lowest...undermining our nation during a war and assailing our friends, too. Because Mr. Carter's administration was so pathetic, his statment would be laughable. But his attempt to undermine our effort during wartime put our brave troops at even greater risk by an emboldened enemy. Just like Hanoi Jane.

Herb

http://feedback.pdxradio.com/show.cgi?tpc=208652&post=172184#POST172184

Herb v.Herb

"Because Mr. Carter's administration was so pathetic, his statment would be laughable. But his attempt to undermine our effort during wartime put our brave troops at even greater risk by an emboldened enemy. Just like Hanoi Jane." - Herb 12/4/07

Response?

"Another nauseating vitriolic ad hominem attack. You've got less than nothing and come off looking far smaller than the President ever could. Little minds come up with this kind of stuff." - Herb 4/23/07

Edselehr, congratulations! You are the one hundredth poster in this thread.

You win a family fun pack for four to see the Christmas ships from the parking lot at Oaks Park.

Not only that, but you qualify to win a canoe tour of Tillamook from the Dairy Farmers of Oregon.

The best part is that this thread is about to be hijacked by one of your favorite things:

EDSELS HERE!
EDSELS THERE!
EDSELS!
EDSELS!
EVERYWHERE!

"All the digging that's needed is Mr. Carter dissing our president's plan to fight terror, whilst attacking our allies with the same ham-fist."

That is what I was expecting.
Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.

Being critical of the President's policy & execution of the "War on Terror" is in your view the same as "bashing the US all day long".

What gets me is how quick he is to back Bush and say how we "need to respect the President of the United States" yet he is so quick to lambaste Clinton and Carter.

Practice what you preach, brother.

"Lambaste"....wrong animal dude. Herb is more likely to try and "Smoke" Clinton or Carter but unfortunately seem's to have no "Cure" for anything! Just another "Pig in a Poke".

"Let me make sure I understand what you are saying."

Let's be clear. Attacking our nation and our leader during a time of war is bashing.

Unlike Mr. Carter, I respect the office of the president. And unlike the left, I hold Mr. Carter accountable for his attacks against our leader and our country's efforts to free Iraq from the yoke of oppression.

Democrats hate Mr. Bush. Fine. But none of us holds the clout abroad like any former president.

Mr. Carter's administration was indeed pathetic and like Jane Fonda, Mr. Carter is indeed emboldening the enemy. I like Mr. Carter, but dislike both his mediocre [that's putting it mildly] administration, and his bashing another president who has freed millions.

The left is highly selective in whom they give a pass. I don't care if it were Gerald Ford during Vietnam dissing us during war. He'd have been just as wrong to do so in a manner that encourages enemy forces killing our soldiers.

Herb

So there is no room for dissent in a time of War?

I disagree.

But even if there were, has Congress declared war?

Today's word is "Automaton", can you say that Boy's and Girl's?

RIP Fred!

When have ANY of us "attacked" our nation during this time of war? I have yet to see anyone in here post anything resembling, "F___ the United States of America". Now we are quick to "attack" Bush because he is a blithering idiot and deserves as much ... just like you have your reasons for attacking Clinton and Carter. A personal opinion stated about the POTUS is not an "attack" on the United States of America or our troops abroad. We ALL support our troops, just not their fearless leader.

If you can't differentiate between the two, then you just don't get it at all, sir.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/vradul/blinders.jpg

Edit Add:
My Bad, link dropping with no text. But it really speaks for itself!

"A message from the Ministry of Homeland Security"

I LOVE it!

Just to keep the focus narrow,

Dissent in a time of war, declared or not, is un-American.

Right?

Not all dissent is accepted by most Americans.

Americans are divided over flag-burning, for example.

Herb

I'm not sure how that relates here.
Seems like it might be an attempt to divert.

If I understood you correctly, you equated criticism of the President with attacking, or bashing the Nation.

I'm trying to get you to either confirm that, or correct it.

Because I firmly believe that there is nothing MORE American than criticizing the government, particularly if you, as a citizen believe your government is behaving badly in your name.

"...you equated criticism of the President with attacking, or bashing the Nation."

It depends on when, such as during a time of war, and what is said.

Herb

"It depends on what is said and how it is done."

OK.
Qualify it.

Obviously I'm thinking how hypocritcal it is for people who criticized Clinton over Serbia, to now claim that it's un-american to criticize Bush for his various blunders in Iraq.

Were they bashing the US all day long?

Notice that I'm not attacking them for their criticism, but for their hypocracy.

Herb...
You don't need to be arguing with me about anything. It looks as if your doing a good job of it on you own.

Herb vs Herb....
That's hilarious Edselehr!

"Were they bashing the US all day long?"

If Mr. Clinton was criticized, it was wrong to do it in a public way that would disgrace him and his office, or provide ammo for our enemies.

I didn't like some of the policies of Mr. Clinton's administration, including the Elian Gonzalez situation, but he was still our president and like Mr. Bush, elected twice.

Herb

If Mr. Clinton was criticized, it was wrong to do it in a public way that would disgrace him and his office, or provide ammo for our enemies.

That's because YOU EXTREMEIES and Tap dancer Craig PUSHED it into the spotlight EVERY DAMN DAY! YOU made it front page news! YOU MADE IT A CURCIS! YOUR DOING! Sure he did something he shouldn't have. BUT SO DID BUSH! and he continues to screw up and NOTHING IS DONE! I think the PROTECTION of YOUR Prez is going along nicely. Who's going to care that his ratings are the lowest since NIXON when we RESIGNED in DISGRACE. That doesn't matter.. DUHbya will walk away with MILLIONS in his pocket from the war and 3,000+ kids will have died for his UGLY war.

And I maintain that the criticism of both Clinton AND Bush, in public is VERY American, and necessary to maintain a functioning democracy.

And I think I have the founding Fathers on my side.

Somebody forgot their meds today.

Did I miss something? When did the US declare WAR on Iraq? War on terror, sure but I guess I was sleeping when we declared war on Iraq. Right now we are just acting as military police helping to keep our "Coo" in place. Criticizing our current actions in Iraq when not related to the war on terror are in no way bashing America.

My Bad, I forgot to read the sign before posting:

Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

Wasn't Afghanistan "THE WAR ON TERROR?" I thought that Osama was "THE TERROR?"
EXTREMEIES or EXTREME RIGHT leaning people...
Why are we NOT spending every waking hour looking for "THE MASTERMIND" behind 9/11? Why isn't Bush hammering the podium and asking for Osama's head?
Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11!!!!!!!! DUHbya even said it on NATIONWIDE TV!

DT...
I've got all the troll food we need!

So, can I put you down for a "YES"

Criticizing the President is the same as "Bashing the US"?

Meaning that the President and the country are one-in-the-same?

So when Herb and the rest of the EXTREMEIES were BASHING Clinton every DAMN day including PLUSH Bimbo and Hugh HewTWIT THEY.... were bashing the US???
Good to know... Herb and Co. were UNPatriotic.
WOW!
Who would have know that about Herb and the EXTREME RIECH.

"So, can I put you down for a "YES."

Like I said, it doesn't matter what conservatives write, you simply disregard any comment made.

Otherwise, re-read my post of December 05, 2007 - 10:41 am.

Herb

Trixter, I must agree. You are like a never empty Troll Trough for our local HamTroll!

The HUCKster likes to joke about suicide....

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/10/huckabee-takes-heat-for-suicide- joke/

Thanks for bashing America Herb!

And in my post of 10:54 I asked you to qualify it.

"it doesn't matter what conservatives write, you simply disregard any comment made"

On the contrary, I have great respect for an honest conservative vuepoint.
I just find that becoming a rare commodity these days.

I know I am repeating myself and breaking my silence, but I think it is important. It also bears noting that this pithy bit of all-American common sense was written by a very famous and respected Republican. However, at this point in his life, he had abandoned the party because it had gone astray. This column was first published in the heartland during World War One:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

Theodore Roosevelt
Kansas City Star
May 7, 1918

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/quotes.htm

Thank You Littlesongs.
It's hard to put it any better than that.

Over and Out!

1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..10....YERRRRR OUT! Ladies and Gentlemen, our winner by KnockOut "Littlesongs"!

I'll remember that the next time we have a democrat president with soldiers in harm's way.

Herb

Hey Trixter, "Happy Hominem".

Darktemper,

Do you have your Hominem Hamfist yet?
If so, be sure to take the gloves off!

Say what you will about Herb, he's certainly has added to the vocabulary around here.

I'll remember that the next time we have a democrat president with soldiers in harm's way.

So Herb... When YOUR side pushes America to vote Hillary into office, Are YOU going to Immediately going to start bashing her??
Remember what YOUR DUHbya said...... I'm not going to bother with that I'm going to leave that to the next President. Sounds kinda like what he said about Osama.....

To think that critisizing our President or our country, at any point, gives terrorists ammo is retarded. There is no proof of that. It's just something to say.

Herb, knock it off, man.

"When YOUR side pushes America to vote Hillary into office, Are YOU going to Immediately going to start bashing her??"

Wait a minute.

You've said repeatedly that you would never vote for Mrs. Clinton.

You also throw in with the group who insists that bashing a sitting president, whilst at war no less, is fine.

So unless you're a closeted liberal, why are you worried about anything said about Mrs. Clinton?

Herb

"Historically, trolls are part of Scandinavian folklore. They were found either as dwarfs or giants (yes, as big as this one) living in caves, by the sea, in the forest or under bridges. They lived in clans or families and were characterized as being ferocious, ugly creatures fond of eating human flesh (and even the occasional Volkswagen). Most trolls used to dwell in dark places because they cannot tolerate sunlight. (Sunscreen has now changed all this.) They are usually grey or green in color, and sometimes scaly. Trolls are described as having monstrously ugly faces, enormous noses, arms that hang below their knees. They are known to be very strong and powerful. Trolls are fascinated by jewelry in general, gold, silver and shiny things on cars in particular. They are also attracted to small children and luminous women. Trolls often live to be very old. They are known to be incorrigibly mischievous pranksters by nature."

http://www.fremontseattle.com/myths/trolledit.htm

" So unless you're a closeted liberal, why are you worried about anything said about Mrs. Clinton? "

OK - fine. I'LL ask the question then. I was thinking it anyway.

I don't suppose we'll get an answer NOW?

"To think that critisizing our President or our country, at any point, gives terrorists ammo is retarded."

So going after Mr. Clinton with the gloves off is fine?

Herb

ABSOLUTELY! ( Unless by " gloves " you mean " facts " or even opionions stated as such ).

Heck, I bet you I could tag Clinton harder than YOU could.

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about whether or not it is anything less that unamerican to say the reasons why we don't like a sitting President just because we are at " war "

But by all means, take off your gloves. It's noit like you've ever really held back out of some kind of feigned respect.

Please.

New Vocabulary Word:

Herrboreum - Herr-bore-eum

Meaning - Same old Boring Bullshit!

If I had no defensible argument, I'd want to swear, too.

Herb

Yeah - I think I'm going back to taking a break now. Same old stuff. Nevermind all the defensible arguements that have already been made, eh? Someone says " bullshit " and it's all for not - not that it ever was actually being listened to anyway.

Man. It just never stops or gets ANY better. Someone saying " Bullshit " doesn't offend me or make me stick my fingers in my ears.

What a fucking baby.

LMFin'AO @ CJ

People can swear AND have an argument. The use of profanity does not automatically cancel the validity of one's argument. In fact, I respect people more if I hear them run off a nice curse session. It tells me they have passion and aren't uptight.

Hi everybody...just got back from jury duty in Oregon City. Crazy civil case...I'll let you know what happened when the trial is over if you're interested. One more day to go.

Here are a couple of Quick Shots, then I gotta get ready to *not* be at work tomorrow:

Herb: This board has decorum standards, and today's rule reminder is that criticism of the government is not unAmerican. Please write it down and remember it. Better yet, live it. Also, we ALL respect the office of the president, that's why we are so ANGRY at the current occupant's misuse and abuse of that office. I would even say that Bush himself has less respect for the office then anyone.

Littlesongs: Thanks for the TR quote - it's a good one. And sorry your "EDSELS!" hijack didn't take. Would have been fun. Well, fun for me.

Amus: Enjoying the ride on the Herb-o-drome? Round and round. You did good today, but finding a conclusion to a discussion with Herb is like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. (Hey, is a leprichaun a kind of troll?)

ALL: I know Herb enjoys these neverending civics lessons, but aren't the rest of you getting tired of them? I know I am.

(p.s. to Amus: you know how easy it is to misspell your screen name? I apologize in advance if I let one slip by. I almost did this post.)

Herb's just got his panty's in a bunch again. I wonder if that has anything to do with him getting all Giddy when they play "Walking Around in Women's Underwear"?

Herb said>>>
So unless you're a closeted liberal, why are you worried about anything said about Mrs. Clinton?

You just don't read do you.... Man your deft.

Disagree with me all day long. Yet unlike so many on this board, I provide supporting data and the links to them.

Once more, we're treated to another classic Trixter non-answer.

Now back once again to the original content of this thread, which has been repeatedly repeatedly hijacked:

"For the first time, presidential candidate Mike Huckabee has taken the lead among the Republican field in a national poll.

The Rasmussen daily presidential tracking poll released Wednesday showed the former Arkansas governor with 20 percent, compared with Rudy Giuliani at 17 percent. Even though Huckabee and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney have played strong in early voting states like Iowa, Giuliani has led the field in practically every national poll since the race began."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315264,00.html

Once more, we're treated to another classic Trixter non-answer.

With YOU being the KING!

Hey Trixter, leave poor ol' HerRB alone, he can't help being SOS!

Your right...
I should stop making Herb out to be such a bad guy. His views are a little bASSackwards but he does keep coming back for more. He's the EXTREME RIGHTS whip.... At least here on this board.
Herb.... Your all right with me....

You're okay too, Trixter.

Herb

Glad to see you boys are finally getting along.
I can put that paddle away for now.

NO! paddle me first!!!!