http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1115driverslicenses1115.html

Interesting, you have to be a legal resident of mexico to get a drivers license, in Mexico.

Even though you aren't coming out and saying it, I assume you point that out because it differs from some of the individual States' - if not the entirte country's - ( I don't know that for sure ) position on this?

Am I correct?

Yep, Oregon will give a drivers license to about any one.

But citing Mexico's policy - why?

( I'm not ignorant to what I THINK you are implying - but I want to hear you say it ).

its called reciprocity, plus the Mexican government has complained its discrimination for us to to give driving rights to illegal immigrants.

Reciprocity? So if they were giving them to non-citizens, you would want that for us too?

I'm going to show up at DMV with just a cable tv bill. We'll see if i can get my license!
Do the Mexicans pay the $17 fee?
:-)

Do you think the gov is reading this board?

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/11/governor_will_tighten_drivers.ht ml

Good news indeed for Pedros De Paca!

Nwokie, I've noticed that you have been ignoring fairly direct questions more than usual lately.

" Reciprocity? So if they were giving them to non-citizens, you would want that for us too? "

If Mexico gives US illegals driving licenses, I have no problem with the US giving ilegal Mexican's licenses, as long as theyt turn the info to INS.

It's an undeniable fact of life that there are lots of illegals driving around in Oregon. Whether or not we give them a license isn't likely to have much impact on that number.

So the question at hand here is, would you rather have the illegals driving around with a license, or without?

No, "don't give them a license because they don't belong here" isn't a reality-based response. The FACTS are that the illegals *are* here, and they *do* drive. We need to start our discussion from a basis in reality.

So, with or without?

I say give them a license and then forward that information to INS so they can deport them.

With.

Why give them a license? It just costs the state money.

Although I do like the idea of giving their info to the INS. But some ACLU moron would probably say that was an invasion of privacy or some other stupid thing like that.

They are going to drive anyway and without insurance, which costs you and me money in our insurance premiums.

Take the money that it costs and give it to the INS so they can catch more of the ILLEGALs and send them back home.

Anybody is welcome in the US as far as I'm concerned as long as they come here legally.

"They are going to drive anyway and without insurance,"

I've a hunch we've a BIGGER problem with AMERICAN drivers without insurance and/or suspended licenses.

Yeah, that's a problem too.

Just ask my wife. She works for the Clark County Sheriff's Office and enters all the warrants and stuff.

You wouldn't believe all the driving while suspended she has to deal with.

I say if you get your license suspended then get caught driving while it's suspended it should be an automatic 5 year revocation for the first time then permanently if caught again.

Uh-o. This is post 999; my next post will be 1000!! I better save it for something good!!!

How about an opinion of Hillary Clinton?

Long time ago, duing my short tenure as a cop, back in Okie land, we used to set up checkpoints, to check for among other things Current DL, insurance, any open warrants, etc.


About 1/2 of the vehicles inspected had a gun in the glove box, or under the seat, we didn't care about that, as long as there wasn't a felon in the car.

TADC,
You do NOT give a license to someone because you figure they'll drive with or without it. If they don't have the right to be here (and therefore no right to obtain a license), they cannot drive. If they do, they get arrested. I would support deporting anyone who is here illegally and gets arrested, and convicted of a crime.

Anyone caught driving without a license, car should be impounded and sold.

Oklahoma has a law, that if your insurance is canceled for any reason, a deputy sherrif or police officer shows up at your house, and takes your auto tags, same if your stopped and don't have proof of insurance.

Nice law...

I'm pretty sure that leaves people with good coverage, as in they can drive any car, out in the cold.

I pretty much just want a citizenship or status check to be a part of the process. Here on authority, or citizenship? Great, have at the place. Enjoy the bennies, drive all you want and go make your money --pay your taxes, all is good.

Not here on these things?

You don't get squat.

With that, I would also see a nice, structured approach to citizenship. Make it doable, make it worth it and make it available to as many as possible.

We can always use more Americans. IMHO, that would also go a long way toward addressing the job competition bit too.

If there are plenty of Americans, willing to do the work, then hiring illegals just won't make any real sense will it?

Seems to me, working for a low (minimum) wage, on the track to citizenship is totally worth it, so long as the process is not too long.

So, we have a stream of people willing to work and pay their dues. After that, they move up, allowing others to do the same, just as we have always had with kids, before this whole mess got outta control.

Couple that with strong protections for our (remaining) industry here and we will have our own economy running like it should, taking care of us first.

I believe one of the primary sources of our troubles is allowing companies to take too much advantage of standard of living differentials. Fix that, and it will make sense for us to consume our own goods first, and that will mean everybody is working nicely, just the way they used to.

Clearly, we've given up enough to make this a very long term project, but it's never too late to start!

Profits might not be as high as they are today, but maybe they shouldn't be either.

One can only exploit the pool of people so much before bad things happen. Balancing that with profit is something we need to be thinking a lot more about than we currently are.

Getting back to the licenses then. Doing this only makes sense if we are to continue to apply strong wage pressure and outsource key parts of our economy. We will need those people and they will continue to have strong incentives to come here.

That's a race to marginalize our standard of living, just so multi-nationals can make more money. If we limit that, they will still make money, just not quite so much.

Where that balance is really depends on us, and way too much is being spent on keeping that below the average persons radar.

No licenses period, unless one is here under some authority. Could be getting citizenship, and tie the license to that progressing nicely. Could be visa of some kind, could be just born here, whatever.

I don't buy the whole, "it's safer for everyone" bit. IMHO, it's a sell out to continue that race to marginalize us. No thanks.

It's interesting, my parents claim the influx of illegal workers to the berry fields in recent decades happened when the laws changed to prohibit kids from working in the fields. They also claim this is when kids started "losing their work ethic". But I suppose that's another topic!

I remember those days...the berry season was a blast! We got to hang out with our friends all summer, and we pretty much stayed busy and out of trouble, except when the high school kids would tip the Port-o-let over with the berry boss inside I bought my first horse and all her tack with berry money, as well as records and school clothes. I was 10 when I started picking berries(1974), and at $1.00 per flat, was averaging about $25 per day.

I would agree with your parents. My Mom says the berry money saved our bacon, literally.

I get the importance and value of having a license, but for illegals who have a network in place and are adept at staying under the radar, and with deportation a possibility

a. Would they bother?
b. Would the records they produce to get the DL be legit, anyway?

Depends. If the law is stiff, maybe. But then again, doing that would be yet another strain on our corrections system. If their only real crimes are being here, driving and working, I'm not sure spending a ton to deal with that is worth it.

Better to fix the things that bring them here in the first place.

It's still pretty easy to fake your way into the system. I seriously doubt that's gonna change significantly.

Indirect fixes are probably better. If getting on the path to citizenship is worth it, available, etc... I'll bet we see a bunch of people all over that. I would! What's to lose?

If doing that, got people a license, well... maybe it's a good way to go. Make it expire in 6 months or so, with milestones to complete and it might be pretty effective at both keeping us safer and reducing illegals.

The whole, just give them one because... bit seems like an end-run, back door to amnesty programs. IMHO, it should be a quid pro pro deal. They do something, get something in return. There is value in that. No real value in just patching a hole, ignoring the bigger picture.

Of course, I would make EVERYBODY demonstrate citizenship or legal status as part of this. Let each State figure how that's done out and go from there. Would be really nice to just reset on that and sort everybody out over a multi-year period. There will be slip-throughs, but not so many that would make it all worthless.

If a given state gets lax, they could end up being a gateway state. That will have consequences and I'll bet those would be addressed at the ballot box. Other states could refuse to just honor licenses too. Make move-ins do another citizenship check.

No need for a national system that has too many objections to get off the ground proper.

"If their only real crimes are being here, driving and working, I'm not sure spending a ton to deal with that is worth it."

To me, the problem isn't about the crime(s) committed by illegally migrating and being here. It's about undocumented workers burdening the social services, including schools, hospitals, and jails, without necessarily getting a tax contribution from them. Additionally, it's dangerous to have so many people unaccounted for; it makes it hard to plan communities and make people accountable for their actions if they are undocumented.