Rudy is corrupt, detests brown people, poor people, and the arts. He continues to exploit every death on 9/11 for profit and power. He wears dresses. He has mob connections. He sleeps around on his wives. But heck, before we get too far down the Santa length list, we have to remember that he has a dear friend who molests children:

"Presidential candidate Rudolph Giuliani hired a Catholic priest to work in his consulting firm months after the priest was accused of sexually molesting two former students and an altar boy and told by the church to stop performing his priestly duties.

The priest, Monsignor Alan Placa, a longtime friend of Giuliani and the priest who officiated at his second wedding to Donna Hanover, continues to work at Giuliani Partners in New York, to the outrage of some of his accusers and victims' groups, which have begun to protest at Giuliani campaign events.

"This man did unjust things, and he's being protected and employed and taken care of. It's not a good thing," said one of the accusers, Richard Tollner, who says Placa molested him repeatedly when he was a student at a Long Island, N.Y. Catholic boys high school in 1975.

At a campaign appearance in Milwaukee last week, Giuliani continued to defend Placa, who he described to reporters as a close friend for 39 years.

"I know the man; I know who he is, so I support him," Giuliani said. "We give some of the worst people in our society the presumption of innocence and benefit of the doubt," he said. "And, of course, I'm going to give that to one of my closest friends."

The accusations against Placa were made in testimony before a Suffolk County grand jury in 2002.

Tollner, now a mortgage broker in Albany, N.Y., says he was one of three people to testify about Placa.

"This man harmed children. He still could do it. He deserves to be shown for what he was, or is," says Tollner."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3753385&page=1

Is this really the best the GOP has to offer? What other candidate from either party has a staffer potentially roaming the country victimizing children along the campaign trail?

This latest crack in his plaster facade makes even Hillary look cute, funny, independent and likable.

I don't carry water for Mr. Giuliani and if he's protecting pedophiles, that's a no-go.

It should be adjudicated and the priest should do hard time if he's convicted.

But I know a lot of lefties simply want to bash anyone Republican, so it's difficult to sort it out and confirm these aren't just ham-fisted charges...unless the guy IS actually convicted of such dastardly crimes.

A lot of people point to Bernard Kerik as a bad guy. I've read a bit about him and like Mr. Giuliani, who helped take down the mafia with Michael Chertoff (now with Homeland Security) and James Kallstrom (formerly with the F.B.I.), all of these men have done a tremendous amount of very, very dangerous high-level crime-fighting.

Pedophiles get no pass here. In fact, castration along with a very lengthy [like life or longer] incarceration would make a just punishment, in my opinion. But specific to Mr. Giuliani, given his bravery in taking down the mob, for now the glass is half-full.

Herb

2002, and no indictment yet? Appears the grand jury must not have put much credence in the accusers testimony.

Nothing could make Hillary look cute, funny, independent or likable!

The demos are really getting desperate trying to smear Guliani, the clinton war room must be in overdrive!

"My intuition [is that] this is not a bluff. If Giuliani is the nominee there will be a third party." -Richard Land.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/57631

I'm hoping Rudy gets the nod. Nothing would make me happier than to see the christian conservatives vote for a third party candidate and give the Democratic nominee an even better advantage than already exists.

"Nothing could make Hillary look cute, funny, independent or likable!"

Agreed.

"2002, and no indictment yet?"

If the gentleman was innocent, he would not be working for Rudy, he would be working for the Pope. Not a smear friend, this is the harsh reality of this dangerous crowd.

Herb, I am right handed, bordering on ambidextrous, and a centrist. I do not hate Republicans. I do not like corrupt hypocrites of either party. I hate predators of any stripe.

Rudy is a bad human being. Whether you believe it by doing the research, or need a court to spell it out for you, it is still the same facts adding up to the same kind of man. He is booed savagely and mercilessly at Yankees games and Mets games alike.

You know who did more on and after 9/11 than any member of New York City government? Bobby Valentine. Like many true New Yorkers in the aftermath, he lost his regular job because he volunteered too much. He does not regret it to this day. He also isn't asking you to pay for his blouses, booze and babes at $9.11 a whack.

"But I know a lot of lefties simply want to bash anyone Republican"

That's pretty silly, coming from the Herrbocrite who gleefully posted the Sandy "Burglar" thread recently. You're just as guilty of "bashing" as anyone else here, if not more so.

No.
Wrong yet again.

Sandy Burglar was CONVICTED of criminal acts.
Mr. Giuliani is NOT convicted of anything...and apparently neither yet was the alleged perpetrator named in this thread.

Nice try at precisely the kind of unsubstantiated Republican-bashing I predicted.
Leftists must be seriously frightened to make up stuff like this so far out from an election.
Kind of like democrat 'nuts & sluts' slander jobs.

Oh well. Unlike Mr. Foster and Mr. Brown, at least the women who were at odds with Mr. Clinton are still alive.

Ham-fist on.

Herb

Classic!! All in the same post we see Herb talk about how Rudy and his molester priest friend have not been convicted of anything, yet 5 seconds later Herb accuses Mr. Clinton of not one, but two murders! Short memory or selective hypocrisy?

Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

Here's the difference, leftists:

Mr. Clinton lied under oath...and was found to be unfit to even hold a law license. Given the reputation of the legal profession, that's very hard to do.

That's also why he was impeached.

Mr. Giuliani is not convicted of anything.

So if you so-called 'civil libertarians' [who defend anyone...unless you're an unborn child or a Bible believer] want to pick and choose who's innocent and guilty, you might first consider whether or not someone's convicted of anything first.

Smear on, lefties...you must be seriously frightened and will lose yet again.

Herb

Quit trying to change the subject Herrbocrite! I mentioned nothing about Bill, impeachment, murder, the bible, fear or abortion. Nice try, though!

I merely pointed out that YOU are the first to call out HRC for hiring "Burglar". And you gloated.

Littlesongs points out that Rudy hired Placa. You bash all over it minutes later.

If I have to pick the lessor of the two jerks, or pick which one of the two stinks less, I'll take the paper thief over the accused-by-3-people "religious" child molester.

"Littlesongs points out that Rudy hired Placa. You bash all over it minutes later."

How convenient.

You omit the FACT that the man whom Mr. Giuliani hired has not been convicted of anything.

Yet Mr. Sandy Burglar has been, AS WAS Mr. Clinton. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

You want to smear someone using guilt by association. I'm not smearing anyone, simply bringing out their own criminal records. If you want to go after Mr. Haldeman, or Mr. Liddy, fine. But don't go after someone who not only doesn't have a criminal record...nor does even their associate.

You can't have it both ways.

Hand-wring on.

Herb

Fact:

Try Googling Placa, Herrb, it's called "Statute of Limitations" and it sounds like Placa got lucky. Do you really think at least 3 men would lie in front of a grand jury, about that?

"Placa's decades-long efforts to cover up sexual abuse by clergy came back to haunt him. In April of that year, he was asked to resign by Bishop William Murphy...as Suffolk County was convening a grand jury to investigate possible obstruction of justice by officials of the Archdiocese of Rockville Center in regard to clerical sex abuse cases. During the course of the grand jury proceedings, not only was Placa's role in covering up clerical abuse brought to light, but the grand jury report also identified Placa himself as "Priest F," who, while a teacher at St. Pius X Preparatory Academy in Uniondale during the 1970s, before he became an official of the diocese, accumulated a string of sexual abuse accusations, including one of attacking a teenager and feeling him up while preparing banners for a right-to-life demonstration. In connection with these accusations, Placa was suspended in 2003 from performing the mass and exercising other functions of the priesthood, pending an investigation. Summing up the grand
jury report, Suffolk County District Attorney Thomas Spota said that the grand jury could have indicted 23 Long Island priests for sexually abusing children had the right laws been in place at the time.

Placa denies these allegations. He cannot be criminally charged in any of these incidents because they are alleged to have occurred in the mid-1970s, and the statute of limitations has expired."

Scum.

So if you wait long enough, without evidence, you can just proclaim someone guilty.

Nwokie + Herb: if the statute of limitations had not expired, and based on the evidence, would your opinion be that he should be charged and put on trial for sexual abuse? Simple yes or no (with a short explanation) is all that's called for here.

Nwokie siad>>>
The demos are really getting desperate trying to smear Guliani, the clinton war room must be in overdrive!

But that's all YOU EXTREMEIES did for 7 1/2 years and now that's all your doing!!!!! The EXTREME WAR MACHINE is ALWAYS in overdrive. You MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY types think you never do wrong by anyone but then when just a little hint of trouble is thrown in your direction about anyone in YOUR camp YOUR in TURBO.
HORSESHIT!
Hillary has done a ton of crap in her life and WE ALL KNOW IT! Is she going to get caught doing something else??? Probably.... Her husband is Slick Willy.

As I've said, both guys suck, one probably literally.

If 3 (or even a "string" of) people testified to fondling by Placa to a grand jury, there's a good chance that it's true...right, Mr. Law & Order Okie? Oooh, Let's ask Fred Thompson, he'd know!

As far as I'm concerned, he can consensually fondle men for the entire campaign...heck, maybe Senator Craig can help him out...

Classic leftist spin.

No substance. Just a lame attempt to impugn the name of America's Mayor. I don't even support the guy for the top slot and I see right through your smarmy, though ineffectual attempt to slime him.

If your same tactic were to be used on one of your socialist candidates, you'd scream bloody murder.

Move along, folks, there's certainly nothing new here. It's the same old tired, hypocritical, ham-fisted attack machine. We're used to it from the Clintons. But attention all pinkos: Expect PLENTY back and in spades this time around. No thinking person wants Clinton II. Batten down the hatches during election '08 because you're about to reap the whirlwind.

And you guys wonder why no one takes you seriously AND why your democrat congress has an 11% approval rating...far less than half of the president whom you so despise?

Democrats will redefine the term 'loser' in 2008. As democrat Zell Miller told us, they are indeed a national party no more.

The HerbMeister

Herb said>>>>
Move along, folks, there's certainly nothing new here. It's the same old tired, hypocritical, ham-fisted attack machine.

HYPOCRITE!!!!!

You guys following the lead of Tap Dancer Craig and The Newt railed on Clinton for 7 1/2 years. And now you piss and moan when it's done to you. Get over yourself!
Keep it up Herb! You getting that oval office ready for Hillary.
Zen Miller???? LMFAO! YOU really are insane if your listening to Miller... LOL!

Impugn this, Meister of Slime:

I have NEVER said I wouldn't vote for Rudy.
I have said I PROBABLY will not vote for HRC. (At this point I would not)

And stop stealing my lines.

For the sake of fairness and balance, Neil Goldschmidt is a slimeball too. He is also enjoying the benefits of a long time passing before adult victims stepped forward. In this case, Richard Tollner makes a fine living in spite of having his pee-pee fondled by a pervert.

So, if the ACLU comes up again, please try to avoid using the NAMBLA card. When a man in a dress hires a molester and you defend them both with fervent passion, it makes one wonder what sort of priorities one really must have to be a neo-con.

Herb, do you ever read the drivel you write? You're just like Bill O'Reilly, always attacking others while complaining about being attacked. Like I said, either it's a real short memory or selective hypocrisy.

And as far as your predictions for 2008, you really have no credibility in predicting outcomes after you went "o-for" in 2006.

"Just a lame attempt to impugn the name of America's Mayor."

I have a deep rooted, gut level, soul deep admiration for Fiorello La Guardia. If you are referring to this current fascist charlatan, please do not tarnish the legacy of a great American.

..."He wears dresses"......

The white house needs somebody in a dress, and I don't think Hillary wears them!

"...the name of America's Mayor."

Mayor Mc Cheese.

"When a man in a dress hires a molester and you defend them both with fervent passion, it makes one wonder what sort of priorities one really must have to be a neo-con."

You've just made two errors. One, is to insinuate that I'm a neo-con. Like I've said, unless Mr. Nixon was one, I'm not.

Two, since I simply stated the guy is innocent until proven guilty in our system of justice, all lefty aclu-types ought to be patting me on the back. Instead, you pile on for purely partisan reasons.

But since you're so quick to be judge, jury and executioner, how about this: someone calls YOU a molester. Does it matter if you're convicted of it, or is the possibility that someone just wants to slime you irrelevant?

Look. I'm one of the very few on this board who's fine with the death penalty for heinous offenses, and child molesting could certainly qualify in my book. The problem is that for leftists, if someone has any possible link to any Republican, he's guilty without a trial. Especially given the Clintonista's track record for taking down innocents in their reckless quest for power, now THAT sounds like fascism.

Pure politics.

Spin on.

Herb

It's shameful that you're defending such a sick person.

Herb said>>>>
Spin on.

That's ALL you do.

Author: Herb
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 2:24 pm

"A lot of people point to Bernard Kerik as a bad guy."

Giuliani ally Kerik reported indicted in New York

"Bernard Kerik, a former New York police commissioner and protege of Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani, was indicted on corruption charges on Thursday, media reported, in a potential embarrassment for Giuliani's campaign.

Kerik, 52, and Giuliani, the former New York mayor, were also business partners and, with Giuliani's backing, Kerik was nominated by President George W. Bush in 2004 to be secretary of Homeland Security. Kerik later withdrew his name from nomination after admitting he failed to pay taxes on a nanny and other embarrassing disclosures about his personal life surfaced.

WABC television reported that a law enforcement official said Kerik was expected to surrender on Friday in Westchester County, just north of New York City, where a federal grand jury was investigating his finances and business dealings while on the city payroll.

WNBC television said on its Web site that Kerik would be arraigned on Friday.

Prosecutors planned to accuse Kerik of trying to influence a probe of a contractor with suspected links to organized crime, other local media reported. The New York Times had reported on Wednesday that Kerik was likely to be indicted.

Giuliani served as Kerik's longtime mentor, promoting the former police detective to a series of positions, including the chief of city jails.

Kerik was police commissioner in 2000 and 2001 and stood by Giuliani's side after the September 11 attacks.

Giuliani, addressing a news conference in Dubuque, Iowa, on Thursday, responded briefly to questions about the expected indictment, which could tarnish public perceptions of Giuliani's judgment and choice of trusted colleagues.

"In that particular case, I pointed out I made a mistake," the former mayor said. "I made a mistake in not clearing him effectively and I take responsibility for that. When you are mayor of New York, you make 100,000 decisions. Some of them you make wrong."

After leaving the police force in 2001 at the end of Giuliani's stint as mayor, Kerik joined his consulting firm, Giuliani Partners, and became a partner in the company's security arm, Giuliani-Kerik. He later formed his own security consultancy, the Kerik Group.

Kerik was appointed to Iraq after the 2003 invasion, where he trained local police and was named interim interior minister in the U.S.-led provisional government after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Kerik pleaded guilty last year to state charges of accepting $165,000 on apartment renovations from a construction company that was attempting to land city contracts and which authorities were investigating for links to organized crime."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071108/pl_nm/crime_kerik_dc

This story sums up the Kerik saga quite well to this point. Like his longtime ties to the former Priest, Rudy has had to go on the defensive. His dodgy answers have further eroded his credibility as a human being. Do we really want or need this kind of fellow as President?

I read Bernard Kerik's book. I'm also not too objective about the guy. I like him.

I could be wrong, but admire a lot of his good qualities. If he's done anything illegal, Mr. Kerik needs to pay for that.

Herb

Rudy Giuliani was married to his second cousin.

If Giuliani was a Democrat, the GOP would be having a field day! Talk about pile-on.

Giuliani is just another Republican surrounded by crooks and admired by crooks. And to think George W. Bush nominated this sally to be Homeland Security secretary, go figure.

...and even worse, if Giuliani is elected, school kids will be required to learn how to spell his name.

Robertson Endorses Giuliani:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-robertson8nov08,0,2060626.story?coll=la-politics-campaign

(The PDX Radio software couldn't make a clickable link with those commas in the middle.)

At least the current president won't need to worry about spelling Giuliani.

"A girl got a pet goat. She liked to go running with her pet goat. She played with her goat in her house. She played with her goat in her yard. But the goat did some things that made the girl's dad mad. The goat ate things. He ate cans and he ate canes. He ate pans and he ate panes. He even ate capes and caps."

"The Pet Goat" is a children's story contained in the book Reading Mastery II: Storybook 1, by Siegfried Engelmann and Elaine C. Bruner (ISBN 0-02-686355-3).

The book is part of the thirty-one volume Reading Mastery series published by the SRA Macmillan early-childhood education division of McGraw-Hill. It uses the direct instruction teaching style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pet_Goat

I thought Robertson was on his way home!

I know God is missing that guy huge. What's the wait? Surely he will do more good than he is currently doing here.

On that note, how the $#(*%&#($% can he actually make that endorsement? It's just not consistent at all. Where is the motivation? Is it simply keeping the GOP in power? Maybe Mr. Married to my second cousin, please don't post up too many of my pictures in drag, has enough dirt on him to make the perfect tool?

What?

Pat Robertson, bless his microscopic soul, has at last finished his long journey from sanctimonious to senile.

That's gotta be it!

Nutbag for sure. That's a big enough disconnect it hurts!

Pat Robertson's endorsement of Rudy shows the desperation the GOP is feeling right now, especially the religious right. They know very well that their right wing religious conservative candidates stand no chance, so they are forced to hop onto the Rudy bandwagon with the slim hope that they can remain even slightly relevent.

"I know God is missing that guy huge."

I'm not so sure about that. He's an embarrassment and a fraud no matter where he ends up.

I can see the discussion right now:

God: Man, just look at the mind share! Go Pat go! I think I still love this guy. Maybe it's time to bring him home?

Favored minion: Yeah, he's huge all right, but it's getting ugly out there pretty quick! People are starting to wonder about the whole thing. The guy is a wacko and a cheat, and keeps saying he's doing God's work! You just know a lot of the smarter ones are gonna catch on. Remember the last time that happened? Satan didn't let up one bit. Lied his ass off and scored huge, as I recall.

God: Hey, any press is good press. Most of the bastards doubt we even exist! Serves them right, I say. If we didn't have so damn many Sunday posers, purgatory wouldn't be such a mess and heaven would be rocking proper by now.

He is doing my work! Not my problem if he's a little less than perfect. Jesus stepped in and took care of that. Only spent a week in purgatory too. All part of the plan. Just wait until you guys try this God thing. It's not just a walk in the park you know.

Minion: Speaking of that plan, just how you gonna get him in anyway? Oral was cake, but things have changed since then. Now, with that full disclosure movement working against us, everybody knows he won't make the cut!

I know heaven is a bit boring, but was upping the entertainment value worth this hassle?

If he would just shut up more often, we could extend his life a bit --nobody would notice! Maybe a scandal would open the door for a one time judgment kind of thing... Then it's clear cut, no grumbling from the staff.

God: Why, oh why, did I put that free will thing in there! Just look at all the paperwork it's created! We've gotta process everybody now, and it's only getting worse! Every time we have to cross the line, it means a ton of new forms. At this rate, we'll have more souls in purgatory than both heaven or hell! What's the good in that? Might just bleed into the next eternity and hose the planning on that one up before it's even started.

Minion: And if we give in on the paperwork, Satan will be hell bent from now till amageddon, working it for all it's worth! Hell, he could even get back in here because those jackasses in legal just love catching you crossing your own word. I still say creating those clowns was not the best of ideas! Explain to me why being all powerful is such a pain in the ass?

Jane the entertainment minion: Besides, nobody really wants that stinky, sulfer smelling loud mouth polluting the place up again! As it is now, we might end up spending at least half of eternity cleaning up! It's a major bummer. Glad that dirty little secret isn't out. Would cut the numbers huge.

God: One more time: Cleaning heaven up is what started this whole judgement thing in the first place! We had to have legal to keep Satan from just running down there and lying to everybody!

Heaven would be a much nicer place if I didn't have to live by my own words. All powerful is such a bitch! Should have written in some exception right at the start. How pissed could Satan have been? If only I didn't give him that damn silver tongue, I wouldn't be in this pickle right now.

What's done is done though. Time to just work this guys case the best we can and move on. We've got some really great souls coming up. No sense in fouling up the works just for this guy.

Favored Minion: Hey, let's just keep him in purgatory for a while! --really long while. It is their job, make them suck it up and keep him busy for most of eternity.

God: That's it! Get Bob on the line, let's see what we can do.

Bob, from purgatory: Pat? You want us to stall on that nutjob? Ok, but it's gonna cost you big! It's horrible here, and you all know it. Those bastards from legal keep revising the forms. When does it end huh?

You know, I've got a few tough cases that would be real nice to just slip through! I think they've been off Satan's radar for long enough, I doubt he will press for compensation...

God: No way! He's a stickler for each and every soul --even dipping in to the solid ones on our side, if he can. No can do.

Bob: Well, we can make it solid, but it's gonna take some time draft up the new fast track forms though. Better keep the guy safe for a few more years. If he's early, we could get into real trouble! You know how legal is. I think Satan has been slipping them some extra promises or something.

God: Man, I don't know. The image has been slipping huge lately. Satan's numbers are way up. You know how cocky that ass gets when that happens! Maybe the risk is too high right now.

Besides, people are having a good enough time down there as it is! He's supposed to be running eternal damnation, not some kind of eterna-orgy! I would do something about it, but he's already damned, what else is there?

Minion: Well... maybe we send Pat straight down. You've got that clause written in. We got it in return for a stronger legal, remember?

Just skip the purgatory guys altogether and just fast track him straight to hell! It's gonna chap Satan's ass, but what can he really do? Hell is supposed to suck. Legal might have a soft spot for him, but not that soft.

Favored Minion: Right. Bob can take his hard cases and just lump it. I say we do it. Call that bastard Satan's bluff and give this guy right to him, straight up, old school, judgment style.

God: Hehe... Ok, we are gonna extend him for a while and think this through. Get those bozos from legal up here and start reviewing my word right away! Tell 'em to bend it a little if they have to, but just make sure it flies, or I'll owe somebody a solid and I just hate that!


...so that's where we are today. Pat's gonna live a long time yet, I'm afraid. Very touchy soul. It's gonna get ugly wherever he goes!

OMG, Missing kskd, LMAO big time! That's the best "God in the board room" bit ever! It should be done! Haven't those guys in legal fixed the boilerplate "Acts of God..." thing yet? Maybe all the real heinous talent is still here...

Not missing your point, however, and wish others would get it.

Now this is the kind of live theatre that even I would enjoy!

Thanks! I find that perspective totally funny --and it helps me to keep things real too.

Can't take credit for any of it really --well, maybe the lame storyline. The inspiration for this bit of fun comes from a most excellent set of fantasy fiction books from one of my favorite authors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnations_of_Immortality

This guy has work that ranges from simple, junk food type series / theme novels (Xanth, etc...) to the series linked above.

Sorry to get a bit heady again --and hammer the thread, but I simply love personification as a learning / conceptual tool. The idea that Death, Time, Fate, God, etc... exist in this fashion has a lot of creative potential, and it's thought provoking too.

If you can put up with somewhat shallow romance elements, those books are a great read. Shining example of personification applied to tough and difficult to quantify stuff. I highly recommend these books to interest young readers --along with these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprentice_Adept

Another author, now passed away, who does a similar thing and incorporates an excellent central character, Merlin, along with his artifical life construct, Ghostwheel, is Roger Zelazny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber

Reading works like this, in my late teens, really had an impact on thinking in general. Very fun stuff, with some perspective that helps keep a few mental doors open, dogma might otherwise close!