Dear old Democrat John Dingell is getting everyone warmed up for his tax increase proposals when the Dems have total power. Watch the rest of them jump in with their ideas for more taxes. It's coming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/26/AR2007092602127_ pf.html

You naive folks who fall for this "we'll only zing the rich" bull have got some surprises coming.

We all are gonna pay for Iraq.

Be sure to keep that debt in context, when bitching about increases for what would otherwise be easily done things.

I know Deane, but it's just really hard. The GOP has just screwed the pooch. Come on, you can say it with me:

Bush Sucks.

>>>"The GOP has just screwed the pooch."

I'll agree with that statement. I believe I've posted similar previously.

So far as Bush Sucks is concerned, I don't demean the Office of the President of the United States. Call me old fashioned if you wish.

Oh, it's not the office at all!

That commands respect. We've been through this.

It's the current office holder that sucks, not the office. The two are different!

In fact, we are obligated, by law, to engage in reasoned discussion about who holds what office, their performance and it's impact on the Republic.

If one holds said office in high respect, said reasoned commentary is vital. Not engaging it is doing that office less than it's due justice Deane.

Call me an American.

Then I don't demean the President of the United States. I may feel he's done a poor job, but I choose not to lower myself to insulting him.

Yes, he's done a poor job. Unfortunately, those opposing him for office would have been worse. We didn't have good choices.

The uncourageous man who currently occupies the office of President of the United States has demeaned it far beyond our poor power to add or detract.

"Then I don't demean the President of the United States. I may feel he's done a poor job, but I choose not to lower myself to insulting him."

Bush is not a king, a lord, or an emperor. He is not a cardinal or high priest. He is a fellow American appointed to perform a job in service to the citizens of these United States. He is my servant, and your servant. By what right has he earned immunity from critique and criticism? Or do you see insulting Bush as a lower act than insulting anyone else? If so, why?

Might I assume you extended the same "courtesy" to Clinton during his tenure in office?

Deane writes:
You naive folks who fall for this "we'll only zing the rich" bull have got some surprises coming.

Well, what would you have us do: keep borrowing from the Chinese? The Iraq war doesn't fund itself. The national debt doesn't pay its own interest. Medicare costs a huge chunk of money. Tax increases suck but are long overdue. The Bush administration theory that you can spend all you want and cut taxes too because "deficits don't matter" will be revealed for the sham it is come 2009, and we're all going to have to suffer through higher taxes in one way or another.

And we haven't even tackled Medicare yet. Or the fact that around 2017 the US government will have to start paying back all the money it borrowed from the Social Security Trust fund since 1983.

You've either got to borrow it, cut spending somewhere else, or raise taxes (or some combination). Since Medicare, defense spending, and interest on the national debt are the biggest chunks of federal spending today, there doesn't seem to be much else left to cut significantly. Medicare benefits will have to be cut (no more for the wealthy) and the age pushed out but that's not nearly going to be enough.

Most likely all of us will be paying higher taxes in 5 years, but if Democrats take full power again expect see the rich REALLY get soaked this time. Not that I think they deserve to get "soaked" but they got the bulk of Bush's tax cuts, a huge windfall. It will be easy to get the public behind soaking them now.

Andrew

So LOWER AND LOWER taxes will pay for everything???

An honest characterization is not an insult, but an embarassment. The reason why it is not only permitted, but acceptable is simple:

the social pressure is a check on low performance, dishonest behavior and general failure to honor the office properly.

Guess this is one of those lefty vs rightie things. People, who self identify as liberal, generally accept the reality of our representative government.

The guy works for us!

"I don't demean the Office of the President of the United States."

I'll hold you to that statement when Hillary wins.

Fine with me.

There may (and I really hope not) be a Democrat President, but it won't be Hillary.

There are not that many stupid people in the US.

Yeah, those Bush tax breaks really did the job!

"There are not that many stupid people in the US."

I disagree. There's no shortage of stoops in the US. After all, George W Bush got elected twice.

I'm supporting Obama for now, but after last night's debate, I think Hillary is going to be tough to beat, and I don't think any of the GOP nominees have a chance in hell of beating her.

>>>"There may (and I really hope not) be a Democrat President, but it won't be Hillary."

Hillary will be the nominee, so if you're right, it going to be a Republican next time. Only bad thing about that is 8 more years of pissing and moaning from the left.

The only pissing and moaning we'll hear is that of the GOP crying in their beer as Democratic majorities increase in both houses and we have a Democratic president as well. I can't wait.

>>>"I can't wait."

For lots of tax increases. But then, you can probably do with less spending money can't you?

I'm not worried about my taxes going up, as my household makes less than $250K per year.

Dream on.

Skybill writes:
There may (and I really hope not) be a Democrat President, but it won't be Hillary.

There are not that many stupid people in the US.

There are at least 62 Million "stupid people" in the US, based on the 2004 election results. One does wonder how many of those people would claim now that they voted for Kerry?

Hillary doesn't need even as many voters as Bush got in 2004. Kerry would have won in the electoral college and only about 59M popular votes if only about 70,000 Ohio Democrats and independents had voted for him instead of Bush. So you see, Hillary can still win in 2008 with about 3 million stupid people to spare. :-)

Andrew

Deane writes:
For lots of tax increases. But then, you can probably do with less spending money can't you?

Unfortunately, Cheney was wrong: deficits do matter. The Republican philosophy of "borrow more, tax less" will result in all of us paying more taxes in the future. Maybe Republican lawmakers should have been required to take a course in basic economics before voting for all these Paris Hilton tax cuts at a time when spending was also going up?

The bill has to come due sometime.

Andrew

I personally think they understand the economics perfectly.

Running a large debt makes progress on common interest causes all that more difficult. Pretty easy to spend a ton, then cry, "haven't we paid enough?"

Those taxes are going up no matter what. Set that aside and remember the GOP did that. Above that amount, any tax increase must be then weighed against the value it brings.

What's wrong with raising taxes?

Nothing, given it's a good value.

Raising taxes sucks, unless you are doing it for a good reason. Raising them because you are broken and finally have to pay your past bills is the worst reason to do it, but I think it's going to be required.

Andrew

It's way past due for a balanced budget. Both at the Federal and State levels.

Well, Oregon and (I believe) Washington and most states generally have to balance their budgets.

It's OK to run small federal deficits in times of need (larger during, say, World War II), but our federal deficits are a lot larger than they appear due to accounting tricks. Did you know that for the first few years of the Iraq war and occupation, its costs were not considered part of the federal budget? They were "emergency spending" and so not counted on top of the already huge budget deficits Bush was already starting to run. That finally stopped a few years ago. We still had to borrow it. Still part of the national debt that we pay interest on.

And then there's this borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund, which also isn't counted against the deficit. Around 2017 the US government is obligated to start paying that back. Where's that money going to come from? Raise taxes some more? Borrow it from the Chinese? Cut the defense budget (as if!)?

Another scary thought: did you realize that the interest on the federal debt we pay now is about the same as it was about 10 years ago, on a much larger debt? That's because interest rates have fallen so the US gov has been able to re-finance it. Guess what happens if interest rates must start going up again? (Fed will have to raise if inflation goes out of control.) The interest payments on the national debt will explode.

And then there's Medicare...

Andrew

DJ said>>>
Only bad thing about that is 8 more years of pissing and moaning from the left.

Like the rest of in the US had to listen to YOU EXTREME RIGHT Bible thumpers out there PISS AND MOAN for 8 years about Slick Willy.