That's what it's come down to. George W. Bush is a coward! He's going to play stall ball and keep the Iraq war going until 2008 when he can leave office and blame whomever gets elected for the results moving forward. George W. Bush puts his legacy over our troop's lives and the safety of our citizens. What a pathetic human being, and those that still back him are pathetic human beings as well.

A troll thread if I've ever seen one!

Must begin ignoring it immediately.

The only "legacy" of the current Resident is going to live in infamy: WPE

I agree he is a coward. Not willing to deal on this in any way that's constructive.

The reason for staying is oil. That's spelled LIE, by the way. (h/t to Colbert for that gem.)

If we stay, we've got some chance, however remote, of actually getting control of all that oil. We need it. We really need it because we've not done the hard work to not need it so much.

Until we fix that, it's likely we are gonna see more conflicts like this come up.

The legacy is shot.

I don't buy into ends justify the means crap. Never have, never will. It's circular, a fallacy, and therefore not rational at all. BS.

However, there is one out for Bush. He could actually own up to this being about oil, among other things. At least then we could have a mission and some chance at actually accomplishing it.

The lie about this just hoses things up and that to me is where the cowardice is.

Forget the legacy. It's toast for a whole lot of reasons, the war being a big one, but not in and of itself the whole deal.

Because our leadership will not own up to the real reasons why this is all going on, we've got no real shot at closure and being able to move forward again in a positive way.

Add to that, the real lack of trust and leadership perception we are dealing with right now, and things just don't look all that good for us.

IMHO, the world is waiting for us to deal with this. We've earned that respect, but it's only gonna last so long.

Should we choose poorly this next time around, I think the hammer is gonna come down and come down hard.

There is real risk for us, that's could impact us on a scale that makes all of this seem tame. It could easily rise to the level of undermining our hard won sovereignty.

Being one of the entitle ones, this guy won't really see the impact of that. Never has really had to be accountable, never really will.

The rest of us will deal with that by proxy, and that's the legacy right there.

And before the "leftist" comments start up, remember this is an American thing, not a partisan one. We could be discussing how to deal with terror, provide health care, help empower the poor to improve themselves, focus on bringing the manufacture of goods to our largely service based econonmy again, dealing with disease, and a batch of other things.

Instead, we have this!

All of those discussions would be welcome really. Right, left, middle --who really cares? Good solutions can come from all, and we get to pick and choose! Our nation is great for this. This is what made us who we are --or were.

This is what I tell people, when I say I'm no longer a Republican. This cycle must be broken, some accountability must be had and that means no GOP votes period --no matter who it is, or why.

If somebody is that good, they can run as a Dem, or independant.

As we rid ourselves of these self-serving people, we can work hard at fixing the democracy that let them into our lives in the first place.

From there, we get to be Americans again. Maybe this Bush time will end up being a legacy of sorts. He's the guy that finally did enough damage to wake us up enough to take back our democracy and make it serve our best interests and nothing else.

Bonus points for "Resident"

XOXO Mrs. M!

Oh yeah. Bush decided to go with his gut and now OWNS everything that is wrong with Iraq. To leave things for the next President to handle makes him a grade A COWARD!

Missing, how can you take so many paragraphs for a position that's so simplistic?

Deane, how come you can't just scroll it?

Liberals who call fighter pilot Mr. Bush a coward, yet defend the draft-dodging Mr. Clinton, bring democrats to yet another new low. Almost as low as the approval rating of their democrat-controlled Congress.

"Last month, Congress' approval rating was 18%, matching the lowest Gallup has measured since it first asked the question in 1974."

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=28600&pg=1

Herb

Hey Herb.....do you play "Twister" You'd be a grand natural at it!

As long as I can stay away from the red and pink[o] coloured spots.

Herb

Typical answer. I suppose you had your left nut removed as you probably have no use for that either!

Bush is an insult to real fighter pilots. He "trained" by flying obsolete/noncombat planes, then just deserted and went awol.

I don't see Clinton's name mentioned in this thread by anyone but you. I don't give a crap about Clinton. He's over, and (at least my) life was better when he was in charge.

Yet another attempt at going off-topic and a dodge. Trash and Dash, indeed.

Naw, not us conservatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorchid

However, Hitler WAS a national socialist:

'Hitler was a monorchid; that is, he had only one testicle, probably a congenital malformation.'

Herb

President Bush flew obsolete fighters, that were more and more dangerous to fly, because they were reaching the end of their life cycle. At the time, that is all the active Air force gave the guard to fly. I dont know where you get the non-combat stuff, the F102 was our front line air defense fighter for a decade.

And if you talk to fighter pilots like Ritchie, Cunningham, and the other vietnam Era aces, they consider President Bush one of their own. I will take their opinion over yours anyday.

Herb's Epitaph: "Here Lie's Herb" (what else is new)

Just like cops, will often consider dirty cops, one of their own too.

Classic leftist spin.

Don't like the truth? Simply spout 'liar.'

Herb

Classic Reich Reply! Heil Herbler! Heil Herbler!

What I meant was, Okie, neither he, nor the planes he supposedly knew how to fly were going anywhere near VietNam. I believe that plane's "combat" time was over, right?

They were air defense aircraft, designed to protect the US from soviet bombers, and yes they were at the end of their life cycle, and the Air force was beginng to give older F4's to the Air Guard. For President Bush, then Lt Bush, to transition to F4's he would have had to extend his commitment several years.

George Bush's time at the Guard is further proof of his cowardice. And to this day he hasn't proven he wasn't AWOL.

Neither can John Kerry or Al Gore, Bill Clinton is certifable a draft dodger.

John Kerry fired a gun in a foreign land defending our country. George W. Bush got drunk and snorted coke while ignoring his duties that were handed to him as a special favor, due to his last name.

Bush's enemies say he was a cowardly deserter. Nonsense. He was a pampered rich kid who took advantage. Why wasn't he called on it in a serious way during the 2000 election? Probably because Democrats figured they'd get Clinton's draft-dodging thing thrown back at them. Not that it matters. If history judges Bush harshly--and it probably will--it won't be for screwing up as a young smart aleck, but for getting us into this damn fool war political coo.

And John Kerry, by his own admission, killed a wounded, unarmed enemy soldier.

And John Kerry probably received a less than honorable discharge, originally, and had it upgraded when Carter granted a blanket pardon.

>>>"John Kerry fired a gun in a foreign land defending our country."

Right, don't I remember him shooting himself in the foot so he could get a purple heart?

>>>"John Kerry fired a gun in a foreign land defending our country."

So did william calley.

"Right, don't I remember him shooting himself in the foot so he could get a purple heart?"

Care to prove your claim?

"And John Kerry, by his own admission, killed a wounded, unarmed enemy soldier."

This is nothing new. It's happening in Iraq every day.

Apparently somebody should nominate Kerry for sainthood.

G.B. is not a coward.

You cannot call a man who acts so stupid a coward if he is willing to be on television to show the entire nation how stupid he is.

He is never afraid to show his ignorance, so we must applaud his courage to do do.

DA said>>>>
Right, don't I remember him shooting himself in the foot so he could get a purple heart?

Got proof???

Slippery, slippery.

Why do conservatives always do this?

Oh yeah, must be that black and white bit. So, either Kerry is a saint or he's not huh?

Really, the whole point of the discussion is that Kerry delivered some solid service to this nation, and Bush just didn't.

Radioblogman: Absolutely! He's either terminally stupid, or a coward.

There is a case for both, depends on who you talk to!

I still lean on coward, because some of the things he does just don't say dumb to me.

"George W. Bush....snorted coke..."

You wanna prove that?

Didn't think so.

Nice ham-fisted, ad-hominem attack.

Classic unsubstantiated leftist spin.

Prattle on.

Herb

He didn't care much for it though...the bubbles tickled his nose.

I don't believe he snorted it. He's so dumb he probably just tried to smoke it.

And Herb, before you go balistic, I don't think he is dumb because he is a Republican. There are a great many smart Republicans out there.

Bush is just a dumb person, period, who does not have enough common sense to be embarrassed.

Herb writes:
"George W. Bush....snorted coke..."

You wanna prove that?

Didn't think so.


No Herb, he's just a fucking alcoholic that traded in one crutch for another when he became "born again". That makes it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better doesn't it?

Author Kitty Kelley says in her biography The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty, that the US President first used coke at university in the mid-1960s.

She quotes his former sister-in-law Sharon Bush who claims: "Bush did coke at Camp David when his father was President, and not just once either."

Other acquaintances allege that as a 26-year-old National Guard, Bush "liked to sneak out back for a joint or into the bathroom for a line of cocaine".

Bush has admitted being an alcoholic but, asked during the 1999 election if he did drugs, he said: "I've told the American people that years ago I made some mistakes.

http://www.infowars.com/print/Bush/took_cociane.htm

Private discussions held by George W Bush before he became president suggest he used marijuana but would not admit it for fear of setting a bad example, reports the BBC.
The conversations-- which took place between 1998 and 2000--were secretly taped by Doug Wead, a former aide to Bush's father, who has now revealed some of the recordings.

In the tapes, Mr Bush mocks Al Gore, his opponent in the 2000 elections, for admitting to smoking the drug.

On the tape, the future president discusses his refusal to answer questions about whether he took marijuana, saying any such admission might affection his standing if he won the presidency.

"I wouldn't answer the marijuana question," he says.

"You know why? 'Cause I don't want some little kid doing what I tried."

He feared that any such admission might affection his standing if he won the presidency.

"Do you want your little kid to say 'Hey daddy, President Bush tried marijuana, I think I will'? he asked.

As well as mocking then Vice-President Al Gore for admitting to smoking the drug, Mr Bush is heard dismissing him as a pathological liar.

According to The New York Times, 'Wead said he recorded the conversations because he viewed Mr. Bush as a historic figure, but he said he knew that the president might regard his actions as a betrayal. As the author of a new book about presidential childhoods, Mr. Wead could benefit from any publicity, but he said that was not a motive in disclosing the tapes.'

The White House has not disputed the authenticity of what a spokesman said were "casual conversations".

"These were casual conversations that then Governor Bush was having with someone he thought was a friend, and that's what they are," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/21bush.htm

So how does this make him a coward?

Really, it takes some balls for a [p]Resident to go and invade a nation, push it into a state of civil war, and stubbornly refuse to leave while his approval rating drops steadily (and remain completely oblivious to that last point!)

So how is that cowardly, again?

I don't support Bush. Never will. I can't support p/Residents who invade other nations under false pretenses (e.g. the deal about there supposedly being Massively Destructive Weapons stored in Iraq.)

That's all I am saying about this matter. Don't bother egging me on to respond, because you will be wasting your time. Over and out.

He's a coward because he's going to stall the Iraq war until he leaves office, so he can blame things on the next person. Cowards don't believe in accountability.

He hasn't stalled anything. He increased the troop strength and it did some good. It's the Democrats that are wanting things stalled.

All that you Disciples of Soros will ever be happy with is when our troops are ordered to put their hands in the air and come marching home.

Herr Herb...
Vit gave you something to look at....

Well, so much for saying I wasn't going to respond--

Okay, quick lesson in abstract thought and the English language here:

coward
ENTYMOLOGY:
From Latin: cauda, comparison of an animal with its tail between its legs

Noun
coward (Plural "cowards")
1. A person who lacks courage
(http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coward)

coward /kowerd/ n. & adj. - n. a person who is easily frightened or intimidated by danger or pain. - adj. poet easily frightened. [ME f. OF cuard, couard ult. f. L cauda tail]
-SYNONOMY~ n. poultroon, craven, baby, mouse, milksop, archaic scaramouch, colloquial sissy, yellowbelly.
(Oxford English Dictionary & Thesaurus, American Edition, © 1996 Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-509949-4, pg. 325.)

How, then, does Pres. Shrub appear to be afraid or easily intimidated of pain or danger, when he obviously inflicts it on millions of American soldiers, Iraqui citizens and others on practically a daily basis?

Or maybe this may be the case: Reading in subtext, perhaps he, himself, may be easily intimidated by such circumstances. That's possibly why HE HIMSELF is NOT in Iraq involved in combat, instead sending Americans over to be murdered so he doesn't have do feel the pain or danger himself.

That way, he could possibly be feigning justification for refusing to leave. Apparently it's more thrilling to send others to be slaughtered instead of being slaughtered yourself, basically.

Nothing in the definitions even suggests cowards don't "believe in accountability." And it would really take an unimaginable amount of courage to leave things be so he can blame it on the next guy. So how, again, is this cowardice?

What really annoys me even more than politicians who are idiots, is people who willingly misuse words and somehow insist (even through implication) that that's what it means!

It's kind of like saying Tony Hawk is fearless simply because he's a good skateboarder. Yes, he may be good when he's on a board but I am almost certain there are other things he's afraid of!

Always remember, if you are unsure of the usage of a term: consult your dictionary. Plain and simple. 'Twould also help make a world of difference on Faux News (either ~ Channel or on KPTV.)

Deane-
Is "some success" ultimately going to make the change needed?

Look at this exchange of dialogue, posted by the Chicago Tribune:

Republican John Warner concluded with a question: "Are you able to say at this time, if we continue what you have laid before the Congress here as a strategy, do you feel that that is making America safer?"

Petraeus said the strategy was the best course for achieving U.S. objectives in Iraq.

"Does that make America safer?" pushed Warner.

Said Petraeus, "Sir, I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted it out in my own mind."

Petraeus' response to one of the most fundamental questions for the American people about the war in Iraq—does this war make us safer?—was "I don't know."

I guess we see "some success" differently.

Does the war make us safer, is totally irrelevant. We could surrender to the terrorists, make the national relegion molslem and force women to wear burkas, but is that the right choice, maybe for some lefties and other democrats.

What the war does is give a chance for democracy to spread in the region, and for the US to continue receiving a vital commodity. Yes I am talking about oil, around which our economy is wound. Take away cheap oil and thousands or hundreds of thousands of Americans will die.

Maybe in 20 years that won't be the case, but its a fact of life now!

The shrub was a drunk and a coke snorting moron in college. His slack-ass military service was neatly arranged by his family. Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and earned the honor of attending one of the finest universities in the world. While most folks think that they both deserved to be bullet catchers like every other young man in the nation, they were not. In fact, neither fellow was in any danger of ever seeing combat, so let it rest.

We had a chance to elect someone who served, and a majority of Americans voted for the Vietnam Veteran. Unfortunately, it was a sham election, and we may never know what a hero might have done. Instead, we have a pathetic rich kid who was nicknamed "sugar lips" in college because he loved to get spun out and suck upper classmen off. No surprise, with the shrub around, GOP now stands for Gobble the Ol' Penis. While he may have given up his beloved Columbian marching powder and latent ways, he is still a coward.

"Does the war make us safer, is totally irrelevant."

The GOP has pounded us day in and day out that we are safer. So NOW you choose to say "it's irrelvant?

www.Sojo.net:

Comptroller Gen. David M. Walker, head of the Government Accountability Office (GAO), painted a far bleaker picture of Iraqi progress last week, issuing a report that said the Baghdad government has failed to meet 11 of the 18 political benchmarks established by the U.S. Congress. And despite the U.S. troop surge, the report concluded that it is "unclear whether sectarian violence in Iraq has decreased." In his testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Walker and the GAO labeled the Iraqi government "dysfunctional" and reported that "overall key legislation has not been passed, violence remains high and it is unclear whether the Iraqi government will spend $10 billon in reconstruction funds."

Democracy in a Muslim country? The democracy we will see, IF we see it at all will not look anything like what we have here in the states. Our cultures are vastly different.

There is far more credible evidence that Mr. Clinton sexually assaulted numerous women, including Juanita Broadderick, than any of Mr. Bush's alleged misdeeds.

If you lower the evidence bar for spurious claims against Mr. Bush, you will only lose. Read Ms. Broadderick's testimony.

Herb

OK...you asked for it!

*** Warning Adult Content ***
http://frogstar.soylentgeek.com/wav/duckjob.wav

Donald Duck inpersonating Bill Clinton

To quote one of my favorite bumper stickers:

First Jennifer, Then Hillary, Then Us!

Herb. The "rumor" was confirmed by alumni and professors at the college. Remember, he went to Yale. This is what Yale does to educate our future leaders:

http://www.sexweekatyale.com/

Would this college sponsored orgy go over well in Eugene or Corvallis? An emphatic NO. Ah, but the rules for the ruling class are different. Bill went to college because he was brilliant, but the shrub went because he was rich. Smart people like to study, but the entitled do nothing but party.

Littlesongs, here's how I see it.

Mr. Bush is rumoured to have consumed alcohol to excess and even used illegal drugs.

No arrest record.

Mr. Clinton is rumoured to have raped numerous women.

Even though he 'didn't inhale,' Mr. Clinton had no arrest record, other than losing his law license for lying under oath and being impeached for his perjury.

What's laughable is that the left, which supports decriminalization of drugs, is in a tizzy with allegations about Mr. Bush that are thirty years old.

Rape is a violent crime and Juanita Broadderick is not the only alleged victim.

You wanna give your guy a pass, fine. At least be consistent.

Herb

Herb, all your retort proves is that privilege exists in spades. Since that was my point, thank you for reinforcing it.

Power gets blowjobs.

Power keeps power by all means necessary.

Power has a double standard and operates above the law.

Power writes their own free passes.

Since power is always in charge and our system is simply a charade, I would rather have a horny genius than a buzzed idiot. Perhaps that is where I draw the line.

In all my days working at bars, I would not have served the inebriated boob I saw on television tonight. I would have cut him off and called a taxi.

"I would rather have a horny genius than a buzzed idiot."

That's not the question, if we're talking about a genius rapist.

Herb

Herb, I am not convinced that Bill raped anyone. I am convinced that homosexual relationships with pages happened in our legislative branch. I am convinced that lawmakers have been caught cruising bathrooms for sex, hiring prostitutes, and breaking their marriage vows.

As far as rapists leading a nation, Israel seemed to think it was a swell idea recently -- until word got out. As I understand it, they had a king or two back in the day who did a great deal of it, so there was a precedent for their President.

In any case, I do not condone the behavior.

Shrub the dry drunk is still a coward. Tonight, he will have a few more belts, play with his army men, say a slurred thing or two to God, and go to sleep under his flag quilt. Maybe, if his dear Laura is so lucky, he won't piss the bed in his stupor -- this time.

Littlesongs, you paint a colourful portrait.

Fortunately, it's in your mind and not based on fact...that is, unless you have a security clearance we're not aware of, or are related to secret service men on White House detail.

You ought to consider more work in fiction writing. I'm sure it would be interesting.

Herb

Herb said>>>
That's not the question, if we're talking about a genius rapist.

Or a coked up drunk DUHbya.....

Big difference is that W. did his mis-deeds at a fairly young age, Bill did it while President and at an age were he should know better and have learned how to restrain himself. But then if I woke up next to that every morning i'd be looking for greener pastures as well!

DAMN RIGHT!
DT you said it....
YUCK!

"You wanna give your guy a pass, fine. At least be consistent."

JHC on a posicle stick, Herrbocrite, you need to do the same!

"There is far more credible evidence that Mr. Clinton sexually assaulted numerous women...than any of Mr. Bush's alleged misdeeds.

So, as you yourself wrote:

"You wanna prove that?
Didn't think so.
Nice ham-fisted, ad-hominem attack.
Classic unsubstantiated Herrbler spin.
Prattle on.

Exactly what makes your sources "MORE CREDIBLE"??? Is it the the difference between 20 and 30 years?

(I could link to that video (again) of a totally smashed incoherant Georgie at the wedding reception, if you'd like)

HEY
Weird thought.
When Bill was president Hillary was nicknamed the "First Bitch"
If Hillary wins we'll have two firsts.
One: The first woman president
Two: Bill as "First Bastard" under Hillary! (Well, maybe not the first one)

Why did Clinton lie in a sexual harrasment case, if he was inocent, he would have told the truth.
He paid an awfully big fine, as well as got imoeached over it, wouldnt it have been simpler to tell the truth, unless telling the truth would have been worse.

I think getting "imoeached" was probably the harsher of the two.

Nwokie said>>>
He paid an awfully big fine, as well as got impeached over it, wouldn't it have been simpler to tell the truth, unless telling the truth would have been worse.

Exonerated my the Senate!!!!!

And hasn't DUHbya lied about stuff??? Didn't Carter??? Nixon??? Reagan??? GDUHbya??? Eisenhower???

"coward /kowerd/ n. & adj. - n. a person who is easily frightened or intimidated by danger or pain"

George W. Bush is a coward because he is afraid to make the tough choices in Iraq...he is easily frightened by the tarnishment of his legacy and is intimidated by the danger or pain the tough choices present. By avoiding this, he is avoiding accountability.