Looks like you ACLU worshipers lost one of your own to the prosecutors.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159994/former_head_of_virginia_aclu_arr ested.html

Why is this of no surprise to those of us who have some common sense at to what they are all about to begin with?

Kill him.

DJ said>>>>
Looks like you ACLU worshipers lost one of your own to the prosecutors.

Who on here has EVER worshiped the ACLU? You and Herr Herb are the ONLY one's that have EVER said ANYONE on here worships the ACLU.
Just another HAM-FISTED EXTREMEIE response that's complete NONSENSE.
Keep it up guys 08' is right around the corner and America is looking closely at YOUR EXTREMEISM. By 2012 YOU just might have pushed your EXTREME ways right out of Washington D.C..
You can't make this shit up!

DJ said>>>
Why is this of no surprise to those of us who have some common sense.

That wouldn't include you right???

Thank you Trix, you're so right.

Of course we don't worship the ACLU, we're all (that's everyone besides HerrB, DJ and Okie) much too busy at our DEVIL-Worshipping get-togethers, right?

Quick, quick. Run and hide, run and hide.

I'll bet the guy is actually a Republican.

There are good Republicans, there are bad republicans
There are good Dempcrats, there are bad Dempcrats
there are good members of the ACLU, there are bad members.

But the majority of most mainstream organizations are good people, I may disagree with some of their ideas, but on the whole most are good people, who are trying to do what they think is best.

You can look around the edges of most organizations and find a few creepy sometimes even horrible people. But you cant judge an organization on the conduct of a few.

I agree with Mrs. Merkin's first post.

Kill Him. On prime time TV, on all the networks. Make an example out of him and the next 500-1000 that they catch.

Anybody that says punishment is not a deterrent is nuts.

The SKY IS Fin FALLING!

DJ said>>>
Quick, quick. Run and hide, run and hide.

TERROR ALERT: HIGH!!!!!

FEAR EVERYTHING!!!!

AVIATION ALERT: HIGH!!!!

FEAR FLYING!!!!

FEAR EVERYTHING!!!!

Now back to EXTREME RIGHT radio on EXTREME Fascism Talk.

... actually a Republican.

Even odds, IMHO.

I think you can safely assume the chances of his being a Republican are about the same as Osama Bin Laden being one.

Whoa! Is this a Kinder and Gentler Okie? Are you breathing some weird fumes out in the barn today?

I could actually give you a little hug and a smooch on the cheek right now.

(And I'm agreeing w/Sky and Trix and laughing @ Missing)

Osama is EXTREME maybe he's a neo-CON???

Man, look at the odds!

There is a ton of the GOP, repressed and in the closet! It's nearly a sure thing. Let's go back through the scandal list, and the list of likely prospects. It's not pretty on the GOP side, and we are not even on the blood alley home stretch yet.

(I've got popcorn saved up for '08! Say what you want, it's not gonna be dull.)

The GOP has a lock on this stuff right now too.

Hell, we are nearly at one a week Deane! It's either repressed perv, self identity and denial issues, theft, lies, bigotry or plain old stupidity.

You write that as if it's just silly to think a Republican would be involved in anything like that.

Look around man! The GOP is doing it all, right now, today, with the good ones scared, and I mean sphincter tight, shittless kind of scared, they are gonna have to go down hard with the rest of them.

There is no moral stand, no family values, no respect for the law, honor, or anything else, normally associated with Republicans, that's even somewhat defensible right now.

They do have a high percentage of wealthy people in the camp though. That and the media ownership is the only reason the GOP even looks viable today.

It's a solid bet he's a Republican.

This is like one of those poker hands. You've got a double-belly buster, flush draw. Lots of outs, great table image, and a stack large enough to play hard. It's not just a call situation, but a healthy raise, looking for the solid payoff.

Maybe even worth a shake and bake. Call, let a card hit to sweeten the other players hand, then nail 'em all in!

It's gonna come out. This guy is a Republican.

There are no Republicans in the ACLU.

Really?

From what I read, maybe 20 percent of Republicans trust the ACLU. Some of those moderates are gonna be members.

Membership appears to be growing on the conservative side, largely because of the police state issues.

That comes down to the value judgement discussion we've been having here, for quite some time.

If one values a particular issue above all else, the ACLU is highly likely to not be something worth supporting. The reasons should be obvious.

However, if one is American first, then the ACLU could be something supportable as getting a decision on some issue is not worth wrecking the Nation for.

Since only about 23 percent of us (or so, I'm sure this varies) are these issue or value voters, there is plenty of room for pissed off Republicans to support the ACLU in it's goal of preserving civil liberties.

The numbers alone allow for Republican membership.

Not supportable Deane. Not yet anyway.

DJ said>>>
There are no Republicans in the ACLU.

Herr Herb is that you??? Do YOU have 2 screen names??? HOLY SHIT! What a bunch of absolute crap that is....

(did some digging)

Alarmed Republicans, Conservatives Swell ACLU Ranks

Membership in the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has surged dramatically -- and a large part of that increase is from conservatives and Republicans.

That's striking, because conservatives have traditionally loathed the ACLU. So why the change?

It's because lots of liberty-minded conservatives are becoming alarmed that the Bush administration's draconian anti-terrorism measures (such as the police-state USA PATRIOT Act) are threatening the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and fundamental American liberties.

So alarmed, in fact, that they're willing to form unlikely alliances and coalitions in order to defend those values.

Arch-conservative former U.S. Congressman Bob Barr (R-GA) is now a consultant for the ACLU. And the ACLU has formed lobbying alliances with conservative groups such as the American Conservative Union, Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum, and Americans for Tax Reform.

In all, a whopping 100,000 new members have joined the ACLU since the Sept. 11 attacks. The ACLU and other observers believe that a large percentage of those new members are conservatives. This new conservative support has pushed the ACLU's membership to an all-time high: 400,000 dues-paying members.

The new funds have in turn allowed the ACLU to publicize the Bush administration's war against our liberties. An example: a new $3.5 television advertising campaign -- the ACLU's first-ever TV ad -- has a narrator saying, "Look what (Attorney General) John Ashcroft is doing to our Constitution," while hands cross out and cut up the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

The USA PATRIOT Act and similar Bush administration measures have "scared a lot of conservatives," Bob Barr says. "They now recognize that we do have common ground with the ACLU."

Similarly, David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union, observes: "On the right and left -- for different reasons and coming from different places -- there is concern about the government listening to everyone's phone conversations and reading people's mail. And when you share those kinds of concerns with other people, you damn sure better get together with them."

Needless to say, conservatives are not embracing the whole ACLU agenda. Many conservatives remain horrified at the ACLU's support of gay rights, abortion rights, gun control and similar non-conservative positions.

But the police state that Ashcroft and Bush seem to be busily erecting has scared enough liberty-minded conservatives to convince them to make at least a temporary, conditional alliance with liberals (and libertarians).

And for now, at least, the ACLU has positioned itself as the biggest and most effective voice speaking out against the new anti-terrorism acts.

(Source: Chicago Tribune: http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aberdeennews/news/politics/6033039.htm )

BTW: This is exactly why I am no longer Republican.

"There are no Republicans in the ACLU."

Would you like your crow fried or baked, Sir?

>>>"The ACLU and other observers believe that a large percentage of those new members are conservatives."

Proof?

I think the burden has been met, where invalidating the statement: "There are no Republicans in the ACLU", is concerned.

There may not be all that many, but there are some. I would also be winning to bet a fair share of those new members have changed their party affiliation, out of disgust for the GOP, in it's current form, and for said form being seriously misaligned with many core conservative and Republican ideals.

Is that number significant?

Worthy of some additional reading / discussion, IMHO.

I also think these numbers might indicate somewhat confused people, to a degree. That matches well with the person under discussion, which reinforces the idea this guy might be a Republican.

>>>"bet a fair share of those new members have changed their party affiliation,"

I'll be they all have, if there are indeed any of those types who have joined the anti-Christian, NAMBLA supporting organization.

anti-Christian, NAMBLA supporting organization.

False, already discussed, unless you have something new to bring to the table.

Change it to anti relegion, NAMBLA supporting organization.

The ACLU supports civil liberties and nothing more.

Not true, the ACLU supports their perception of civil liberties, leaning in favor of law breakers.

Example, I think my daughters should be able to go to a public library and study in safety. The ACLU think those who practice, or want to be able to practice child molestation, should be able to meet at public libraries, and share information on child molestation with each other.

The ACLU gets my vote as the most evil organisation on the planet. It doesn't get much worse than an organisation that actually defends both evil pedophiles while supporting the wanton slaughter of the innocent unborn. Only planned parenthood, NARAL and NAMBLA come close.

I'd place the ACLU as slightly worse than blackhearted communists like Stalin, Kim Il Jung and Fidel Castro, since at least certain commies 'fess up to their agenda.

If I'm in a charitable mood, I'd maybe give the ACLU one small break, and say they're perhaps not quite as bad as satan...but that's simply because the ACLU only takes their orders from the devil himself.

Herb

"The ACLU gets my vote as the most evil organisation on the planet."

I'm sure that Bin Laden and Hitler are SO relieved to hear this. They'll all be sleeping so much better tonight.

Herrb = the new Dodo Bird. Or ostrich.

"I'm sure that Bin Laden and Hitler are SO relieved to hear this."

More dangerous than any enemy are those like the treacherous ACLU which pretends to be your friend. Most are on guard for the obviously evil.

Herb

When do you sleep? Does someone come to relieve you at your post?

Naw, I'm a one-man truth squad. Evil never sleeps, so why would I?

Besides, you never know when a commie's going to try and put an ice-pick in your skull. And that's not even in reference to the abortion issue...I'm talking about Trotsky.

Herb

If the ACLU is so evil, why do the bible thumpers welcome them when they need help?

HYPOCRITE!!!

Vitalogy, do you have any sources on that?

Most of the "Bible Thumpers" (It may be spelled that way, but it's pronounced; Christians) oppose the ACLU.

Why do you think it is referred to as the Anti Christian Litigation Unit?

It might have something to do with the fact that the bible thumpers are imposing their beliefs on others, using the public dollar or property? It's not the ACLU's fault that certain bible thumpers don't respect the constitution.

As for sources, try this one on for size: http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/11/28/falwell_aclu/index.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union offered to support the Rev. Jerry Falwell in his challenge of Virginia laws that restrict how much property a church can own.

Though Falwell often chides the activist group, the offer was welcomed by Jerry Falwell Jr., who is representing his father in the case."

Any old port will do in a storm.

At least your anti-Christian bigotry is plain for all to see, Vitalogy. Most on the left, including the ACLU, are far more sophisticated and couch their terms more carefully.

But then again, I doubt you have a massive legal team and the ACLU's funds to match.

Herb

Well, at least Herrbocrite didn't insult your looks, Vitalogy!

No, I wouldn't stoop to the left's tactics.

Herb

Herb said>>>
More dangerous than any enemy are those like the treacherous ACLU.

Or the EXTREME Bible thumpin' idiots that try and make their way the ONLY way.

Why do you continually mock the Bible and name-call, Trixter? Are you arguments that pathetically weak? How about debating an issue for a change. We know you can do it.

Herb

I'm not sure he should in this case.

It's spelled "Bible Thumper" when one tries to leverage public resources to get the word out. A significant percentage of these types believe this nation should be branded with their particular faith.

That is EXTREME, it's Bible Thumpin', and it's trying to make their way the ONLY way.

Spot on for all counts.

And can you quit word stuffing for even a moment Herb? He's not mocking the Bible at all, just those morons who try a little too hard to get others to believe as they do.

There is a clear difference there, and you avoid it every fricking time. (It's a pattern, and it sucks ass Herb.)

Moving on...

Man, what a mess we have here!

Vitalogy is not expressing anti-anything. He is expressing pro-freedom of religion. That means all religions get equal treatment all the time.

There is no bigotry in this. None.

Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to engage in sophistication, or care. No reason to fear your veiled threat either Herb. None.

The law is clear on this, and again, and again it seems we arrive at many hating on the ACLU for holding that line.

Respect it, and we've very few court cases. Push hard, and you'll see a ton of them. This is not the ACLU acting against one group, but that one group forcing the matter over and over and over.

Fuck it. I'm buying a membership the first moment I am able. Clearly they are gonna need the help!

I've read enough here and elsewhere to be worried about the potential impact these people may have on my future freedom to worship how I want to, if I want to, when I want to, and what I want to.

That freedom cannot exist if we weave religion and the state together. Since this is a FREE society, holding this line is perfectly defensible.

Amen, Missing. Great post. I hope Herrbocrite reads it. Twice.

Oh he will, but it won't do any good at all. Actually, he's highly likely to quote some scripture that makes me out to be some very evil something or other, to be watched carefully.

Just like Brandon Mayfield, eh?

Who knows?

This stuff isn't hard.

Join the ACLU:

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FJ_donationhome

DJ said>>>
I'll be they all have, if there are indeed any of those types who have joined the anti-Christian, NAMBLA supporting organization.

Wonder if Larry Craig is a member??

Herb said>>>>
Why do you continually mock the Bible and name-call, Trixter?

So what your saying is that you do want EVERYONE to think as you??? It's Herr Herb's way or the highway?? EVERYONE has to be EXTREME in thinking?? I think the Nazi's did that? Castro did too.
Thanks for being right on cue Herr Herb...
Thanks God that we live in AMERICA where we can think what we wish unlike how YOU would like us to live.
Castro needs more men like you... Cuba is always looking for a new leader.

>>>"Wonder if Larry Craig is a member??"

I know things like this are confusing to you Trixter, but if a person such as Larry Craig does happen to have homosexual tendencies, that is no indication they support pedophilia.

How about YOU?

Trixter, if you're wanting to hook up, no thanks. Not my thing.

That's okay you have Herr Herb...

I'll pass... but I'm sure that some of your other EXTREME RIGHT friends are pent up and waiting to burst.

HAVE FUN!

Trixter, it's bad enough to bash people of faith, but at least they can defend themselves.

But if you wish to align yourself with the ACLU that defends pedophile organisations like NAMBLA, that's far worse. Little kids can't defend themselves.

Herb

Herr Herb said>>>
But if you wish to align yourself with the ACLU.

MORE LIES! JHC Herr Herb! You are the orignal laying liar.
Thank God you and Castro are so tight. If you wanna make peoople live by YOUR rules then maybe Cuba is your best choice. Maybe Ill has a spot on his cabinet???

Is that the only kind of talking points they give you over at scare America and moveon.org?

No evidence. Just yell, accuse and name-call. Bash N' Trash, indeed.

Herb

Well Herb, what's the difference between Castro and your side? That's all the religious cons want to do is make all of us live by THEIR rules.

To compare Fidel Castro's murderous anti-faith regime to faithful Bible believing Christians is something only a radical leftist could conjure.

Now I know why groups like moveon.org and scare america are called extremist.

They are.

Herb

Yep.

I find that hard to get around. Either it's a free society, meaning we all get to make our own moral choices, or we don't.

"To compare Fidel Castro's murderous anti-faith regime to faithful Bible believing Christians is something only a radical leftist could conjure."

So somehow all the Christians who have raped, murdered and pillaged over the last thousands of years "in the name of God" are more right than "Fidel Castro's murderous anti-faith regime"??

Is that what you're telling us?

By definition, anyone who rapes, murders and pillages is not following the teachings of Jesus.

However, Fidel Castro is acting according to marxist dogma, in furthering the communist cause by any means necessary.

Herb

Fidel Castro is dead.

MrsMerkin-If you have reasonably reliable information to share about Fidel Castro, please share.

Herb

Fidel Castro is dead.

We can only hope!

Saddam Iraq and Cuba very similar. Small elite group with all of the money, in control of the military, and basically a dictatorship. But one big difference is who is backing that small group. Any coo would likely fail because it's in the soviet's best interest not to let that country out of their control. The soviet's could have cared less about Saddam. However if we try anything in Cuba we'd be likely to ruffle so feathers in Moscow!

"..it's in the soviet's best interest not to let that country out of their control."

That might sound like it makes sense, but please explain how this applies to the former East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania.....that is, unless Mr. Reagan knew what he was doing in promoting freedom and forcing the Russkie's hand.

Herb

Well....maybe this is the old cold war thinking. Maybe in this post cold war era it really does not matter to them as much as it once did.

Herb said>>>
Is that the only kind of talking points they give you over at scare America and moveon.org?

Unlike YOUR FAUXNews and Plush Bimbo show?? Huge Pukeit show??
Sorry Herb your lying again... I DO NOT listen to AAR. Sorry but YOUR WRONG AGAIN!
The Scare America thing is getting old...

Herb said>>>
However, Fidel Castro is acting according to marxist dogma, in furthering the communist cause by any means necessary.

Wouldn't that be like YOU wanting everyone in America to CONFORM to YOUR way of thinking?? Huh???
Maybe Cuba is the best place for you...

Trixter.

Cuba is the best place for me?
You make me laugh.

Better check your facts yet once more.

You're talking to the most vehement anti-communist you're likely to communicate with in your lifetime.

And the last time I checked, komrade Fidel is hostile to people of faith. Kind of like the liberals on this board.

Herb

Hey Herb....you ever see the movie "Thirteen Days"? If you did what did you think of it? If not rent it and let us know.

Herb said>>>
You're talking to the most vehement anti-communist you're likely to communicate with in your lifetime.

But yet EVERYONE that doesn't think as you is a socialist... An outcast... A Liberal... When in FACT they are just using their head for something besides growing hair on....
This is AMERICA Herb! EVERYONE can have their OWN opinion... Just like YOURSELF.

Hey Trix....you trying to catchup and get to 10,000 posts first? You better get with it man......someone else is only 250 posts from that landmark event!

I'm trying but Herr Herb just isn't getting back to me fast enough...

Were the Hell is Wayne when you need him hunh!

I thik Herr Herb is Wayne... And probably DJ to...

Here's proof Castro is dead:

http://www.deadcastrodance.com/

"EVERYONE can have their OWN opinion..."

Trixter, please show me where I said others cannot have their own opinion.

Don't confuse one's having strong opinions with disallowing others the right to have theirs.

Having said that, not all opinions have equal merit. And that's why I fight the ACLU, NAMBLA, NARAL and planned parenthood.

Herb

You WANT everyone to think as you! YOU want judges that judge YOUR opinions on others! YOU want YOUR opinion and thoughts put into place so other have to follow what YOU want. Screw everyone else!
I'll give you NAMBLA because I have a good buddy that's step-father was a sicko. But YOU'LL fight organizations like the ACLU until YOU need them or they come to your rescue. Personally I have NO use for them but I'm NOT an EXTREMEIE like yourself that needs protecting by special interest groups.

The upside to Castro is that he provided evidence of the longlivity of Detroit Iron.

And that it's good to be a Dictator. Just ask DUHbya....

But Bush can't even save Detroit. You'd figure at least SOMETHING could get accomplished with dictator powers.

Trixter. Look at yourself.

You're intolerant of those who hold conservative views and clearly wish to squelch them.

Are you any different than those to whom you accuse?

Don't tell us that you don't push your own liberal agenda, because you definitely do.

And I wouldn't take the ACLU's money or defense. There are plenty of other upstanding organisations.

Herb

"...clearly wish to squelch them"

Did I miss something? When? Where?

"The upside to Castro is that he provided evidence of the longevity of Detroit Iron."

http://www.danheller.com/cuba-cars.html

In particular, http://www.danheller.com/images/LatinAmerica/Cuba/Cars/Slideshow/img62.html#img6 6

Exactly!

This happens a lot. Herb will mix two different things together, then make assumptions based on that.

A very common one is the difference between hate and the expression of disfavor or disapproval. Saying "Bush really sucks!" (and he does, trust me), is clearly not hate. It's an expression of ones opinion of his overall merit as a leader.

(poor, in my case)

This expression is warranted in that we all have a common interest in a rational judgment of our leaders. If we have bad ones, and don't know it, then we are gonna go through some crap we might not otherwise have to. The only way to really get to the bottom of that is to express ourselves and weigh the results!

That gets transmorgified into "Hating" or "Hate".

Branding that as hate is actually harmful! Not in our best interests, generally speaking.

Herb, why do you do this? It really pisses people off, and is likely the number one reason you get labeled "Troll[ing]" here, on a regular basis.

Can you really not tell the difference?

In this case, Trixter is expressing strong emotion (anger, frustration) with you Herb, taking the high ground without actually owning it. (Your position is not well supported by facts, or many of your own posts.)

That's not squelching, but a reaction to something ignored on a long term basis.

(and that is frustrating)

So, if we brand that as "squelching" "Silencing" we end up with this bizzare perception of Herb the underdog, martyr, persecuted for his "beliefs" and generally in need of some consideration.

It's bunk.

Really, when faced with regular expression of this kind, one could choose to remain silent. (bad option though, just bottles things up and that does nobody any good) One could then reconsider and perhaps address that anger. (way better as all parties benefit)

The goal here is not to silence, but to inform and perhaps make an emotional appeal. Maybe, if one feels bad enough about it, it might become worth it to make some changes, or at the very least, think about a greater degree of silence.

Emotional as in, "Do you really have to keep up with this crap?"

The slippery part is the "greater degree of silence" part. Essentially, what we have here is one clearly not willing or able to make any constructive changes, but the emotional appeal is still hitting home. So, that's taken as pressure to be silent.

That is a very slippery dodge! One that only plays off of part of the whole story.

Missing,

I think in today’s society and language the word hate has come to mean dislike or disapprove.

Right, wrong or indifferent, the word has lost its original intent of meaning hatred.

I think many people use the word hate, myself included, in place of "I don't like that" or something to that effect.

For example, I'll say "I hate people who don't use their turn signals". (Only a moron wouldn't!)

Does this mean that I actually "hate" them and want to cause them harm? No, not at all.

I guess the proper term or verbiage to use would be "It really aggravates me when some moron doesn't use their turn signal"

Anyway, unless I'm mistaken, I don't really think anybody on this board truly "hates" conservatives, liberals, lefties, righties, neo-coners, neo-liberals (new term!) etc. However, neo-nazis might be a different story!

MHORS. (My Humble Opinion Respectfully Submitted)

I think I agree with that.

However, having worked through that difference, over and over and over, with no real impact, leaves me thinking it's manupulation, not simple error or a subtle change of the times.

I use the word that way too. However, when called on it, or involved in a conversation where said use could be divisive or inflammatory, it's worth some greater consideration.

Herb said>>
You're intolerant of those who hold conservative views and clearly wish to squelch them.

WHAT THE FUCK?

Sorry for that but that is dead ass Fin wrong! I'm intolerant to EXTREME VIEWS and people that want to RAM their ways down everyone's throat.
And for the last GD time Herr Herb... I'm a TRUE Republican wether you like to hear that or not just because I DO NOT subscribe to YOUR thinking that does not and NEVER will make me a Liberal Democrat!

Herb said>>
Don't tell us that you don't push your own liberal agenda, because you definitely do.

YOU DON'T LISTEN DO YOU???
Or your so mired in your own LITTLE EXTREME World that you can't read an Fin word that ANYONE on here types.

I'm done with this bullshit! Your NEVER going to understand anything about anyone that thinks differently than YOURSELF.

SAD

Herb said>>
clearly wish to squelch them.

HAVE I EVER TRIED TO DO THIS???

That is a plain LIE!

Something Herr Herb is good for I guess.....

"Trixter is expressing strong emotion (anger, frustration)...Your position is not well supported by facts...

Wait a minute.

Trixter accuses others of lying.
When asked for facts, he not only dodges, he simply accuses with more CAPS and exclamation points!!!!!

Then when shown he was wrong to accuse others of lying about the topic at hand, because NO prisoner has been murdered at Guantanamo, he STILL screams liar.

Ironically, having being shown the fact, Trixter knew the fact and is therefore the only one who has uttered any falsehood.

Try reasoning with someone who not only is a one-note johnny...he's sometimes virtually incoherent. And his friends on the left defend his indefensible rants.

Trixter, meet Wayne.

Herb

I said YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME that NO ONE has died at Gitmo. If so then why are BOTH sides of the isle trying to close it down???
Anwser that....

Trixter, you are beyond hope on this.

Have a good one.

Herb

READ!


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-12-gitmo-remarks_x.htm

And Herb....

BREAKING NEWS!

You've been hopeless for a while now.....

Buh bye!

psst edselehr. great pixs. hopefully they'll end up in a museum someday after the fall of castro.

Heck no - I hope they stay on the road as testament to the amazing adaptability and ingenuity of those Cubans living in less-than-ideal circumstances. And, to show how, at one time, America made products meant to last. Our current fixation on disposabilty and consumerism has moved from laughable to shameful.

Somewhat related: Here's an interesting video link from China someone emailed to me -

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/haha_america.jsp