Since there has been a great deal of pissing and moaning in the past about Bush not handling N. Korea, now that there has been a breakthrough that we never expected could be accomplished, will you be giving Bush his due credit.

Or, will you begin a spin on this that will require a major dose of Dramamine just to keep one from throwing up. I predict the latter.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RDGHJG0&show_article=1

Notice it took a Conservative just to provide the link, no Liberals jumped in with anything about this major victory for the U.S. and allies.

Sorry, but he's gonna go down as the Worst President Ever. Period. This is a good thing, on it's own, but does really very little to improve Bush, and the GOP in general.

All the really horrible things are still happening, we are still going broke ass, military worn and broken, and have a lot of blood on our hands, largely for oil, not terror. Trust me, this does not tip the scales.

Correction: It took a Bush supporter to post up a link.

Any real conservative would be happy about the news, but not wanting to prop up one who has done conservative causes so much harm. Advancing some agenda items is notable, but again, the costs in terms of bastardizing core American values are very high. Likely not worth it in the longer term, for push back alone.

I'm encouraged by this development, however I'm gonna temper that with: "Let's see where it goes, and more importantly, what "compensation" and "aid" ends up looking like."

Do you need a bucket?

I'm here to help.

I predicted correctly.


>>>""Let's see where it goes, and more importantly, what "compensation" and "aid" ends up looking like."

I further predict that we get far more for our money than we got when Clinton gave them compensation and they took the money and ran.

Maybe!

That's why I am encouraged! We get another shot at this. Maybe it's gonna go well. That would be all good. Would be a feather in W's cap.

So we watch that and hope for the best right?

What else is expected?

Are we supposed to somehow say, "Wow! This guy really has potential. Might be wrong about him. Let's give him a break, because this might be good!"

Forget it. Not gonna happen.

If it goes well, that's good for us, good for W. What more is there?

I love the construction of your recent posts, Deane: either you agree with Deane or you're spinning. Reminds me of the no-win logic the Bush admin used on Saddam before the 2003 invasion: if he says he doesn't have WMDs, he's lying because we know he has them so we should invade; if he says he has them, he's violating the agreements so we should invade.

But here's some "liberal spin" for you (even though I'm not a liberal): it's quite possible that had Bush not gone down this stupid "Axis of Evil" path in 2002 and done everything possible to alienate North Korea that we would have gotten an agreement with North Korea four years ago, instead of giving them four years to develop nuclear weapons. But conservatives will never see it that way.

Of course it's good that we're easing tensions with North Korea - just as it was good in the 90s when Clinton did it (will you give him some credit for doing it then, along with the hated Jimmy Carter?). It's also a great thing that Libya has moved back nearly into the family of nations; that started under Clinton too. Both Bush and Clinton should get credit for making that happen.

Andrew

I think he's cranky over the idea the GOP is gonna get spanked, as in "Holy crap! We are half the size we were, better re-think these clowns." this time around.

>>>>"But here's some "liberal spin" for you (even though I'm not a liberal): it's quite possible that had Bush not gone down this stupid "Axis of Evil" path in 2002 and done everything possible to alienate North Korea that we would have gotten an agreement with North Korea four years ago, instead of giving them four years to develop nuclear weapons. But conservatives will never see it that way."


Like maybe if we were nice to them they would have just given up their nuke program, scrapped their rockets, and done it our way. Naive as hell, but we're accustomed to that.


>>>>"It's also a great thing that Libya has moved back nearly into the family of nations; that started under Clinton too."

No, it started under Reagan when he sent a couple of our planes in to bomb Kadafi's palace and killed one of his kids. It was finished when Bush attacked Saddam. Kadafi was afraid Bush would come after him next and he decided to find Jesus. He knew a Republican President meant business.

Where's my Dramamine?

Deane, North Korea has starving people willing to be executed for being illegal aliens in China. Thousands of them are herded up every week. This is not a country that needs a war, wants a war, or could fight a war. Take in some of that country air.

We are on the West Coast, wary, but not paranoid about Korean missiles. Relax, they will never nuke you and Toto out there in the wheat fields. Remember, all Koreans are still far more pissed off at the Japanese, and that a dinky rocket is easier to build.

A unified Korea is not too far away -- for many non-military reasons. Like I said, they are not eating in North Korea. Unification will not happen on the shrub's watch, but probably in our lifetimes. Perhaps under the Democratic nominee that is elected in 2008.

Feeding us a line of malarkey about this great progress being all under the big dubya smacks of too much It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World on the big screen. His Poppa didn't knock the Berlin Wall down either. The Germans did.

Ok Deane - what has the Bush administration REALLY done to bring North Korea to the table and talk? Really, what has the administration done?!?

Let's highlight:

-Bush names North Korea in the "Axis of Evil".
-North Korea detonates nuclear weapons in testing. Bush administration condemns the testing along with everyone else in the world. No other action taken.
-North Korea backs out of talks, then re-joins the table after getting concessions from the United States.
-North Korea agrees to disband its nuclear program in exchange for much-needed oil from South Korea. The transaction is taking place as we speak.
-North Korea now offers a timeline to name and disband its nuclear weapons program.

Again, a lot of nations involved ... including ours. But what has the Bush administration REALLY done to make this happen, outside of some name-calling?

If Bush actually accomplishes something, I have to give him Zero Credit.

Had he made all decisions by throwing darts at a board during his presidency, AT LEAST SOME decisions would have fallen into the smart category, with perhaps few bullseyes falling into the BRILLIANT decision tally box!

By failing to recognize that his Gut Feelings decision method have never truly served him well (numerous bankrupted businesses, drinking/drug problems, et al, and now, the presidency) Bush has deliberately damaged our country.

WPE

Like I said.

IMO, Skep is giving him some credit, since he's moved from the negative/minus side all the way up to zero!

C'mon Deane!

What do you expect? He sucks.

Did this news mean something special to you, regarding Bush? What is it? Clearly we are missing out!

I will give Bush ONE thing. The way the neo-CONs scewed tax reform my fathers company has made it so that my wife and I can live VERY WELL.
Outside of that DUHbya and his cohorts have made Republican a dirty word and that makes me very sad. Clumping the neo-CONs in with Republicans is a just a crime. America is slowly waking up to this fact.

Let's get this straight, Trixter.

Conservatives have helped you to live very well and you're still complaining?

No good deed goes unpunished.

Herb

I will give credit to Bush for this. Should I give it now or wait until it actually happens?

Either way, I have it ready for whenever someone wants some to be given to him.

Just let me know.

Herb....
I'm complaining because he has done a shitty job running America and made some of the most bonehead decisions while in office. Along with appointing his band of idiots that have helped him run this country right into the shitter. Just because my father's money man and accounts have found loopholes for him doesn't mean I own shit to DUHbya.

Bush's idea of cutting taxes on the wealthy and putting the brunt of the burden on the middle class, squeezing it smaller and smaller, is against conventional conservative ideology. Traditional conservatives (including Herb's esteemed 37th President of the United States) believed that lowering the tax burden of **ALL** Americans would stimulate growth. Traditional conservatives also had the common sense of knowing that less income = less to spend, and would adjust the budget accordingly. I realize that a balanced budget was not attainable at the time, we had a 60-some year gap between balanced budgets (Hoover to Clinton) but it wasn't as irresponsible as THIS.

Bush slashes taxes to the highest income classes, and he also has the biggest government in US history, not to mention this little thing called Iraq that is costing us $3 billion a WEEK?!? That's not conservatism, that's being stupid.

Ok, I admit, I give Bush credit for THAT!

I watched a show on OPB last night and the guy said that America today could be classified as "Empirical America". What we are doing abroad is comparable to what the empire's of old did.

I just got off of an interesting conference call. One of the other parties is in Argentina.

Politically, they are stating exactly what you just did.

There are some parallels to their government struggles of the past, and ours today.

Here's an interesting parallel:

After more instability, The Argentine Congress named Eduardo Duhalde president on Jan. 1, 2002. Duhalde soon announced an economic plan devaluing the Argentine peso, which had been pegged to the dollar for a decade. The devaluation plunged the banking industry into crisis and wiped out much of the savings of the middle class, plunging millions of Argentinians into poverty.

Trixter. Let's analyze your thoughts.

"I'm complaining because he has done a ***** job running America and made some of the most bonehead decisions while in office. Along with appointing his band of idiots that have helped him run this country right into the *******."

Nothing specific. Simply ham-fisted drivel.

Heck, even continuing the left's ad nauseum Trash N' Bash with a quote of Mr. Bush's 'heckuva job, Brownie' comment would have had more substance than what you posted.

Herb

Kinda gives new meaning to the "American Legions". Hail Bush, Hail Bush!

Empirius Bush, Emperor of the US!

Herb....
Thanks for those kinds words! Your a true neo-CON to the word. Your post was both ignorant and pointless to all of us and everyone on here is just a little bit more stupid for reading it.

The only people who call others ignorant are those who are ignorant themselves.

Deane, that's one of the most ignorant statements ever.

Deane you need to make a bumper sticker with that quote. I love it!!

Hey Trixter-I notice you couldn't refute anything I posted.

Are you truly that lacking in material?

Drivel on.

Herb

I'll second that. Good stuff Deane.

>>>>"Deane you need to make a bumper sticker with that quote. I love it!!"


A statement that lengthy would require the bumper on a Cadillac Sedan Deville to hold the sticker.

Nobody is ignorant of anything ever. And the proof is only shown when someone is called ignorant. People cannot be ignorant.

Sure they can!

What if one simply has not yet experienced something?

Wouldn't they then be ignorant?

This is not bad --and I think a lot of people associate ignorant with bad. That's stupid --a different problem.

Agreed kskd. I was truly looking at it from a bigger picture and not necessarily from the topic of this thread.

I am truly ignorant when it comes to plumbing.

...the bigger picture.

I think failure to do this lies at the root of a lot of our troubles.

That's why I like what Deane wrote so much. Since we are all ignorant about something, calling another ignorant is just funny, unless qualified in some rational and constructive way.

Essentially, Deane's slogan is completely and totally true, always!

Call it an absolute truth. There are not many of those. He should feel pretty good, having uttered one!

Ignorance:

"You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

"To succeed in life, you need two things: ignorance and confidence." - Mark Twain

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But, when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years." - Mark Twain

Bonus Twain quote for djfrresh:

"I don't give a damn for a man who can spell a word only one way."

Edselehr- Perfect.

OK...Ok...I'l give credit when and were it's due..............



















































Oh my bad.....don't hold your breath......not due yet!

Chris,

There are only 3 things you need to know to be a plumber;

1 - Friday is Payday.

2 - Poop does not run uphill.

3 - Wash your hands before you eat.

Simple!

Are you sure you're not talking about a radio personality?

Skybill - you forgot one:

4 - DON'T pull your pants up!

Crack kills!!!

My eyes, oh good Lord, the horror of it all!

Herb said>>>>
Hey Trixter-I notice you couldn't refute anything I posted.

Do you EVER???

DJ said>>>
The only people who call others ignorant are those who are ignorant themselves.

Unless you've never called anyone ignorant your statement would include yourself???

And stupid is as stupid does.....right DUByah!

"What we are doing abroad is comparable to what the empire's of old did."

That's what I've been saying for a while now. Close our borders and we WILL be a second-rate power like many a previous world power now littering Europe as a has-been empire.

People never learn -- when they get power they become consumed by it and end up sucking in the end.