http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347/

What is it with these creepy closet gay GOPers?? Is this yet another example of "traditional family values"?? Here's a more detailed story than what MSNBC is providing.

"According to the incident report, Sgt. Dave Karsnia was working as a plainclothes officer on June 11 investigating civilian complaints regarding sexual activity in the men's public restroom in which Craig was arrested.

Airport police previously had made numerous arrests in the men's restroom of the Northstar Crossing in the Lindbergh Terminal in connection with sexual activity.

Karsnia entered the bathroom at noon that day and about 13 minutes after taking a seat in a stall, he stated he could see "an older white male with grey hair standing outside my stall."
The man, who lingered in front of the stall for two minutes, was later identified as Craig.

"I could see Craig look through the crack in the door from his position. Craig would look down at his hands, fidget' with his fingers, and then look through the crack into my stall again. Craig would repeat this cycle for about two minutes," the report states.

Craig then entered the stall next to Karsnia's and placed his roller bag against the front of the stall door.

"My experience has shown that individuals engaging in lewd conduct use their bags to block the view from the front of their stall," Karsnia stated in his report. "From my seated position, I could observe the shoes and ankles of Craig seated to the left of me."

Craig was wearing dress pants with black dress shoes.

"At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot.

I moved my foot up and down slowly. While this was occurring, the male in the stall to my right was still present. I could hear several unknown persons in the restroom that appeared to use the restroom for its intended use. The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area," the report states.

Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times, and Karsnia noted in his report that "I could ... see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider."

Karsnia then held his police identification down by the floor so that Craig could see it.
"With my left hand near the floor, I pointed towards the exit. Craig responded, No!' I again pointed towards the exit. Craig exited the stall with his roller bags without flushing the toilet. ... Craig said he would not go. I told Craig that he was under arrest, he had to go, and that I didn't want to make a scene. Craig then left the restroom."

In a recorded interview after his arrest, Craig "either disagreed with me or didn't recall' the events as they happened," the report states.

Craig stated "that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine," the report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor.

"It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper," the arresting officer said in the report.

OUCH!

I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. I'm guessing he'll be wanting to " spend more time with his family " real soon.

We live in an interesting world where there are no gay Democrats, no Democrats who have been caught in a compromising situation, no Democrats who have ever gotten a blow job in the oval office, no Democrats who ever have anything but married heterosexual sex using only the missionary position (with the lights out, of course).

With that kind of sexual purity, we should never again vote for anyone but a Democrat for public office.

It was the "Oral" office during the Clinton administration!

Ya know......whoever is in that office I really don't give a rip about their personal lives so long as it stays out of the office and they do a good job for the country. Everyone has dirt and naughtiness they wish they didn't, I guess the Republicans are better at hiding that, except when they record it and forget to destroy the tapes!

Deane, we've got Democrats who have done those kinds of things. It's likely we've got something going on right now actually.

The real differences are the one party being completely unable to keep it's members out of the cookie jar. Another one is their strong moral majority stand. Looks really bad when the party is making regular headlines like they have been.

Another biggie happens to be their clear willingness to abuse their position and bend the law as much as is possible to keep said headlines from occuring in the first place.

Finally, the problem is an order of magnitude greater in the GOP than currently seen in the Democratic party.

Those things more or less marginalize the "they did it too" bumper sticker line you've been running for a while. Selective outrage, both parties have problems, etc....

It's all just crap aimed at making really big problems look somewhat smaller, in the hopes that the party might look up, never mind actually having them account for what has already happened, is documented, etc...

The newsworthiness of this story is the IRONY. Yet another "traditional family values" Republican that is on record defending the writing of discrimination against gays into law is caught trying to pick up another man IN A PUBLIC BATHROOM IN AN AIRPORT. The guy got cold busted in a sting operation, and I see no other explanation from him other than that he was attempting to pick the guy up. I have no problem if you're gay, but to doing things like this in public is not okay. If he doesn't resign, he will be booted in the next election because Idaho is probably one of the least tolerant states for gays and non-whites.

You guys don't get it.

The answer isn't to lower standards.

It's to hold the hypocrites accountable.

You don't hear any conservatives defending the guy.

I trust voters will give him the boot.

Herb

While technically illegal ( more than just " technically " - but you know what I mean ) and the inevitable backpedaling is taking place, frankly, to hold republicans to any kind of moral standard is fruitless. Same with Democrats. Yes, irony and hypocrisy are duly noted and worthy of remebering. Same with Democrats.

I just can't help but thinking " At least he got caught. It's important enough for us to know about him." ( As if I even lived in Idaho ). I will take 10,000 guys in the bathroom with adults than one with a kid. I'm not excusing it - but I'm really not in a position to judge.

Herb called it - voters will take care of it. If Smith and Wesson doesn't get at him first. ( Which, you have to admit, this is the kind of scenario in which a suicide happens sometimes ).

He doesn't deserve to die. It's sad and embarrassing. But there is no way he should kill himself. Not for this, at least.

"It's to hold the hypocrites accountable."

Which begs the question, why are there so many gay bashing closet homos in the GOP? Combine that with all the sick stuff that occurs in gay bashing religious organizations, such as the Catholic church, and it makes me wonder why is there a connection? Is there something deeper, like a culture of sexual repression, or is it just coincindence?

"The real differences are the one party being completely unable to keep it's members out of the cookie jar. Another one is their strong moral majority stand. Looks really bad when the party is making regular headlines like they have been."

Precisely.

It's amazing that the ones making the headlines with their sexual acts, or just acts that greatly go against their beliefs and teachings, are the ones who are so staunchly against homosexuality predominantly. Then they try to justify it, or in Craig's case, dismiss it as being "overly watched" by the police.

Idaho is a VERY conservative state ... heck, it's the White Supremacist capital of America. I assure you that if Larry Craig runs again, he stands no chance. Don't worry, Herb.

I wouldn't vote for him.

Herb

But would you have voted for him BEFORE this came out Herb? THAT is the question!

He's the same person he was before, just got caught with his ... erm hand, yeah that's it ... in the cookie jar.

"But would you have voted for him BEFORE this came out Herb?"

Is he pro-life? If so, and if his opponent WASN'T pro-life, then I probably would have voted for the guy.

And NOW, were I an Idaho voter, I'd vote to toss him out.

Herb

"I am not gay. I love my wife, my family. I care about friends and staff and Idaho. I love serving this state ... I hope Idahoans will allow me to continue to do that," Craig said in a news conference in his hometown of Boise.

You know, many pedophiles are not gay either, so maybe Craig is just a pedophile. The officer did look a lot younger than him.

Herb said>>>
It's to hold the hypocrites accountable.

WOW!

Deane_johnson:
We live in an interesting world where there are no gay Democrats, no Democrats who have been caught in a compromising situation, no Democrats who have ever gotten a blow job in the oval office, no Democrats who ever have anything but married heterosexual sex using only the missionary position (with the lights out, of course).



OK Deane, let's talk about being a hypocrite which you are being a big one and Herb too, but that goes without saying. Here's the difference, the dems DO have their share of idiots. I won't argue that point. However, the dems don't go around telling the rest of us about what moral, waving their bibles in our faces and telling us they have all the fucking answers when it comes to how the rest of us should live our lives and the whole time they are going around soliciting fags or IMing them in the case of Mark Foley.

If you can't live by your the beliefs you insist on shoving down our throats, don't tell the rest of us how to live.

KEEP YOU BIG NOSE OUT OF MY LIFE AND OUT OF MY BEDROOM AND FOCUS ON LIVING YOUR OWN SO CALLED MORAL LIFE.

If you're going to preach this crap, in my eyes you aren't allowed to make a mistake. That's why I forgive Clinton, he didn't go around telling us what's moral while he broke all the commandments himself.

Aok, do you have a link to somewhere Senator Craig made a statement supporting your point?

If he did have a link, would that make any difference to you?

What about if I had a link?

"In recent years, Craig's voting record has earned him top ratings from social conservative groups such as the American Family Association, Concerned Women for America and the Family Research Council.

He has supported a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, telling his colleagues that it was "important for us to stand up now and protect traditional marriage, which is under attack by a few unelected judges and litigious activists."

In 1996, Craig also voted in favor of the Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition to same-sex marriages and prevents states from being forced to recognize the marriages of gay and lesbian couples legally performed in other states.

Craig has also opposed expanding the federal hate crimes law to cover offenses motivated by anti-gay bias and, in 1996, voted against a bill that would have outlawed employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, which failed by a single vote in the Senate."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/27/craig.arrest/?iref=mpstoryview

AOK's point and my point as well is the hypocrisy of those that preach morals yet have none themselves. Larry Craig defends traditional family values. Is lewd conduct in a bathroom towards an undercover policeman by a married man with children who happens to be a US Senator considered an example of those values?

And uh, he pled guilty. Sure, yes, now that it has broke, he's going to say that he regrets it. I'm certain he does. But he took a risk that pleading guilty would keep it quiet. There was no risk in fighting it - it's a certainty that it would have broke. By pleading guilty, he took his only shot at keeping it quiet. Not because he WASN'T guilty, but because he was.

He said so. I do not believe for ONE second that anyone in his position would plead guilty for any other reason other than he is guilty. Now take your lumps and move on. And lumps is what you deserve for the above listed hypocrisy.

If anything, the action of pleading guilty in the hopes that no one would find out tells me this guy's decision making skills are minimal at best and borderline rubber room material.

"Clinton, he didn't go around telling us what's moral while he broke all the commandments himself."

Just how low do you want to set the bar?

Herb

"Just how low do you want to set the bar?"

Members of the GOP continue to show us...

No, the democrats want a grey world where anything goes...including offing pre-borns and defending molesters.

Herb

I know I don't need a bunch of other people telling me what is and what is not moral.

"and defending molesters."

Fucking liar. Some christian you are.

Thank you for saying that, Vitalogy.

"Some christian you are."

Even Jerry Falwell cringed. I'm not sure about Rev. Phelps. At least the troll is down to his level.

>>>"Fucking liar. Some christian you are."

I see you've elevated your posting to a much higher level.

For those of you keeping score of recent Republican sex scandals, first there was Rep. Mark Foley, who got caught sending sexually explicit IMs to underage male pages. Then we had President Bush's spiritual adviser, Ted Haggard, who resigned as head of the National Association of Evangelicals after admitting to having methamphetamine-fuled sex with a male prostitute. Then Louisian Sen. David Vitter's name popped up on the DC madam list amid revelations that he had been frequenting prostitutes and dressing in diapers. Then John McCain's Florida campaign co-chiarman, state represenative Bob Allen, was arrested for offering to perform oral sex on an undercover male police officer in exchange for $20. And now comes Craig, starring in Brokeback Bathroom.

What will be the next Republican sex scandal to break?

• Condoleezza Rice gives birth to Bush’s love child
• Mitt Romney takes on Ann Coulter as his polygamous wife
• Rush Limbaugh caught paying for abortion for illegal immigrant mistress
• Bill O’Reilly outted as member of NAMBLA
• Rudy Giuliani dumps third wife after falling in love with mirror image of himself dressed in drag


Edit Add:
Herb....would you mind listing the recent Democrat scandals....I can't seem to find a good list but I know there has to be one somewhere!

Yep. That's been my point all along. It's tough to see that holier than thou pitch, then see the steady stream of these happen at the same time.

A more liberal outlook on ones personal life does allow for more acceptable outlets. That's gotta mean fewer scandals right?

That Billo one is just hilarious!

Herb said>>>
No, the democrats want a grey world where anything goes...including offing pre-borns and defending molesters.

ALL OF THEM??? A blanket statement like that is just plain IGNORANT.

You suppose all of these people resigning lately is so their "Dirty Laundry" doesn't come to the surface? Run from the spotlight before it hit's you! Or are the Rat's just leaving the "Sinking Boat"? Used to need a ship to hold everyone, now a row boat is about right!

"...and defending molesters."

Liar? Liar?

Spin on in your world of denial. Here's the proof:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18029

Herb

ALL of them??
EVERY last Dem believes as you have said???
That is 100% PURE ignorance on your part as a human being....

WOW Herb!
Nice EXTREME REICH webpage there....

I don't.

There.

Game over.

All of those articles say the same thing:

The legal remedy applied to NAMBLA is in violation of our Constitution. Few of them include the ACLU statement that says they do not endorse nor condone NAMBLA, and are only interested in First Amendment matters related to this case.

Find a statement of support for NAMBLA, that is also tied to endorsement and or condoning their activities, and we've got a discussion; otherwise, it's really game over.

Back to the subject of the thread, I hear it was all a terrible misunderstanding.

Larry Craig was in the mens room, talking about politics, and said that a big, excited caucus always gets him excited. So ..... you can see how that got misinterpreted .........

Herb, you have one short memory. Either that or you're mighty dense. We've already had this discussion regarding NAMBLA, and I proved my point way beyond a reasonable doubt that the ACLU does not support or defend NAMBLA, they defend civil liberties. So, in a bit of irony, the link you posted actually proves my point and shows you as being the chronic liar you are.

I merely pointed out where you were wrong.
Continue to name-call all you want, it only makes you look even more defensive whilst bringing attention to the FACT that the ACLU defends NAMBLA, and PRO-BONO, no less.

Herb

Sorry bud, but you've not only been proven wrong here, you're also proving yourself to be a continued liar. Pretty pathetic for such a god fearing person.

"Repeat a lie often enough and the people will believe it!” Joseph Goebbels

Sorry, bud: The ACLU defends NAMBLA, and PRO-BONO, no less.

You wanna defend 'em, prepare to be marginalized and even more irrelevant.

Herb

The ACLU is busy right now defending Foley, Haggard, Vitter, Allen, and now Craig!

No Herb, all you're doing is smearing. As has been pointed out already, based on your logic, any defense attorney that defends any criminal would be defending the criminal act of the defendent. Any sane person knows this is not true, but you.

And how funny you bring up Joseph Goebbels. You're applying that quote to this very topic.

You can't make this stuff up!

Herb said>>>
You wanna defend 'em, prepare to be marginalized and even more irrelevant.

That's where you just DON'T get it Herb.....

Keep it up Herb!
You and the masses of asses that think like you are going to get Hillary elected and you'll have NOBODY but YOURSELF to blame!!!!!

Typical.

The left wants Republicans to distance themselves from extremism.

Ironically, there is perhaps no other group more radically extreme than the ACLU.

Try to use sleight of hand, but this is the type of inconsistency that makes the left vulnerable.

Herb

Being EXTREME makes your side vulnerable period. That's why AMERICA is jumping off your EXTREME view bandwagon. They see what it has done to the United States and they don't like it! Just check out FAUXNews polls on DUHbya's approval ratings.

You are in full on spiral mode right now, Herb. Using all your trigger words - sounding paranoid and panicky that without a boogyman that you can frame, your party is empty. You can't focus on any one aspect of your baloney right now. You sound so desperate. It's a little sad.

I KNOW I KNOW, you want to type " You know what is sad is you...blah blah blah..."

Save it, old man. Nobody is buying your fear tactics anymore. We're going to vote for whom WE want, not you. We are going to talk, think and work.

No wonder you can't convince anyone of anything around here. You just have nothing of any substance left.

Chicken said>>>
We are going to talk and think.

Something the EXTREME don't want you to do! They want you to listen to what they have to say and let THEM make up your mind. If you have an opinion they'll give it to you.

Resistance is Futile
http://liberty.davar.net/Images/Humor/PatrioticBlinders.jpg

Chickenjuggler, you are 100% correct.

Since Ted Haggard's name was mentioned above, and as you know, he is now asking supporters (all 4 of them) to send cash donations to him to support him.

Now it gets even wierder. You just can't make this stuff up:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13989590/detail.html

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- An address where fallen evangelical leader Ted Haggard said supporters could send him donations is the same as one listed for a man registered as a sex offender in Hawaii.

In an e-mail KRDO-TV in Colorado Springs received from Haggard, Haggard said he would seek financial support while he pursues a master's degree in Phoenix and works in a halfway house. The e-mail from the New Life Church founder said supporters could send donations either directly to his family or to a Colorado Springs post office box held by a group called Families With a Mission if they wanted a tax deduction...

(Also the halfway house has announced that the Haggard family will NOT be moving in...)

OUCH!

From the Spokesman Review's Blog:

Early discussion on Larry Craig story

Earlier today, an activist blogger claimed on a nationally syndicated radio show that Idaho Sen. Larry Craig is gay. Political reporter Jim Camden is working on a story, and there was a discussion at this afternoon's meeting about how we should cover this.

Background and links are posted at Huckleberries Online, but in a nutshell, the activist claims that he's talked to four men who say they've had sex with Craig. There's no accusation of any crime or impropriety, but the blogger cites what he characterizes as a hypocritical voting record as a reason for the outing.

If our reporters had uncovered this information, it's unlikely we would run a story. However, because this information is already circulating through other media, it's a different situation.

"We can't ignore it," said managing editor Gary Graham. "If we start ignoring that kind of discussion in a media context, we take ourselves down a slippery slope."

The story will include a reaction from Sen. Craig, who denies the assertions.

"We actually do Craig a service by letting him respond in print," Graham said.

At the time of this posting, the story is planned to run inside the B section. The night is still young, though, and nothing is set in stone until the story is finished.

There's bound to be additional discussion tomorrow morning, and you can watch a live webcast of our 10 a.m. news meeting at spokesmanreview.com/webcast.

WASHINGTON — Idaho Sen. Larry Craig’s political support eroded significantly today as three fellow Republicans in Congress called for his resignation and party leaders pushed him from senior committee posts.

The White House expressed its disappointment, too — and not a word of support for the 62-year-old lawmaker, who pleaded guilty earlier this month to a charge stemming from an undercover police operation in an airport men’s room.

Craig “represents the Republican party,” said Rep. Pete Hoekstra of Michigan, the first fellow GOP member of Congress to urge a resignation.
...
Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Norm Coleman of Minnesota joined Hoekstra in urging Craig to step down.

McCain spoke out on an interview with CNN. “My opinion is that when you plead guilty to a crime, you shouldn’t serve. That’s not a moral stand. That’s not a holier-than-thou. It’s just a factual situation.”

Coleman said in a written statement, “Senator Craig pled guilty to a crime involving conduct unbecoming a senator.”

For a second consecutive day, GOP Senate leaders stepped in, issuing a statement that said Craig had “agreed to comply with leadership’s request” to temporarily give up his posts on important committees. He has been the top Republican on the Veterans Affairs Committee as well as on subcommittees for two other panels.

What is your point? We can find the news reports on our own.

This is fascinating.

Conservatives all over the place are denouncing Mr. Craig, including Mitt Romney and John McCain.

Yet democrats hand wring with their ham fists.

Where was the left when Barney Frank was in his own private Idaho?

Herb

@DJ:

But you won't.

I just like to catch your eye as you're scrolling to jump in and support the HerrB in your little circle-jerk as you 3 edge closer and closer to the cesspool of Wayne-land.

Don't you have some grits to clean or some moles to kill or torture? Maybe clean out the root cellar/bunker?

Hey Now......I got me moles to kill so don't lump me in with them....OK!

"Yet democrats hand wring with their ham fists.

Um, which dems are you referring to?

I think most people of ANY party are just shaking their heads and thinking either, "Dumb-Ass!", "Buh-Bye..." or "(sigh) business as usual".

Iraq is worth hand-wringing over, this is just a minor case of "restless leg syndrome", easily curable, and the only person probably doing any "wringing" is his wife.

I think Craig is "PORK" fisting it right about now...

Trix, it certainly sounds like he's had a few (non-Jimmy Dean) sausages already. Ha!

@Herrbocrite:

The (Barney) Frank Rule

Frank's blunt stance on outing certain gay Republicans has become well-publicized, dubbed "The Frank Rule" — that it is acceptable to out a closeted gay person, if that person uses their power or notoriety to hurt gay people.[7] The issue became especially relevant during the page scandal of 2006, during which Frank clarified his position on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher:

“ The fact is, yes, the Republicans do think [homosexuality] should be a crime. And I think there’s a right to privacy. But the right to privacy should not be a right to hypocrisy ... people who want to demonize other people shouldn't then be able to go home and close the door, and do it themselves.[8]

(Wiki)

I think I might like that guy...

Hey Mrs. Merkin-Nice attempt at avoidance. Do you have anything other than ad hominem attacks?

Herb

Herb ignorantly said>>>
Do you have anything other than ad hominem attacks?

We were wondering the same from you???

HerrBocrite:

Ditto.

Since you're so fonda repeating the same tired old lines over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, I guess I will too:

I'm rubber, you're glue
whatever you say bounces off of me
and sticks on you.

STFU, old man.

More ad hominem attacks.

Sad.

Herb

Attack? don't flatter yourself. You earned it, Mr. Honourless.

Sad? You should be.

Herb said>>
More ad hominem attacks.

That's ALL we get from you...

Hey Mrs. M - the Spokesman-Review is the PERFECT source to conduct the "investigative journalism" on Larry Craig, since they did such a fantastic job of getting mayor Jim West ran out of town and into the grave in shame with their witch-hunt on him.

It's a match made in heaven!

Maybe those boys were special "happy" friends?

On second thought, nah, Larry was too old for Jim.

Olbermann does re-enactment from police report!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/29/olbermann-re-enacts-senator-craig-bathr oom-scene/

priceless!

Bailiff, Whack his pee pee!

10 bonus points if you know where that line is from!

Apocalypto!

It may have been said there too, but I was referring to Cheech and Chong's 1971 self titled album.

It was on one of the tracks on the 2nd side, I just don't remember which one.

I can't stop laughing at the video and you boys!

What a jerk (off)!

Isn't that what he had on his Minds at the time?

Mind and Mini-Mind!

There is now audio posted of the actual arrest. I found it on MSNBC.com

Man, the audio recording is pretty damning.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20467347/

"Karsnia said that he had cited several people for similar behavior in the past and that he was disappointed in the senator."

"You are sitting here lying to a police officer," Karsnia responded. "People vote for you. Unbelievable."

Damn LIBERAL PRESS going after just the Republicans!

I trust the continued fascination with this issue exhibited in this thread means we have some folks here still in the closet. Just wondering.

In the closet with our sexuality?

"Damn LIBERAL PRESS going after just the Republicans!"

You rapturous schadenfreude against Republicans bolsters your democrat credentials all the more, Trixter.

Herb

>>>"In the closet with our sexuality?"

That's what I would be wondering. The guy simply wanted to hook up and some of you guys can't leave it alone. I assume it's fascination with the idea.

Fascination with the fact that just like when Slick Willy was in trouble for sex YOUR EXTREME RIGHT machine was all over his ass 24/7.

Herb IGNORANTLY said>>>
You rapturous schadenfreude against Republicans bolsters your democrat credentials all the more, Trixter.

Right on cue... Herr Herb... Just keep it up! No wonder MOST of America doesn't like YOUR EXTREME ways.

What I can't get over is the utter stupidity of the act itself and his lame explanations, never mind the monumental hypocrisy of the whole thing.

Listen to the police interrogation, it's pretty bad. I don't care whether the guy is gay or not, but he was looking for sex. This guy got caught red-handed. There is no other explanation for his behavior, and the cop knows this. You can tell by the conversation.

Ignorantly?

Unless you're in the democrat's camp, Trixter, please tell us why you would make light about Republicans being attacked by the liberal press?

Never mind. I didn't think you could anyway.

Herb

Keep it up there Herr Herb....
Your good for what YOU EXTREMEIES are good for. Twisting the truth. Keep it up Herb and you'll find YOUR EXTREME ways on the outside looking in.

">>>"In the closet with our sexuality?"

That's what I would be wondering. The guy simply wanted to hook up and some of you guys can't leave it alone. I assume it's fascination with the idea."

Well, ok. That's fair to at least wonder. I actually totally get that. It would make sense. So let me check...nope. I don't FEEL gay. I mean, I'm not attracted to men in a physical way. But yes, it was not out of the question to wonder. Perfectly legitimate.

And now that you have opened my eyes to that kind of angle or mindset, it DOES explain all those messages from the pulpit I have endured. And the railing against all things gay from The Republican platform. Anti-marriage this, same-sex that. All the while there have been so many outed homosexuals from that side of the political aisle. Yeah. I totally see it now.

Thanks for bringing it up.

In my case, it's slightly different as #1. I'm not gay. And #2. If I was, I'm pretty sure I would say so. I don't know that for sure that I would as I'm not. But who knows? Not me.

But your point is not lost on me Deane; People who exhibit an inordinate amount of fascination on the subject would make me wonder WHY they are so fascinated by all things homosexual. And as you point out, it's a perfectly reasonable assumtion to make a leap - not even a leap, more like a skip - to " Well then, they are probably gay themselves. Why else would anyone talk about something so much?"

I'll try real hard to remember that and apply it to people when they talk about something. Anything, really.

I heard another angle that hadn't occured to me. Is it the contention of Republicans - or really just about anybody - that being tempted by homosexuality is a regular thing for straight men?

Now that a precedent has been set, I expect all congressmen to resign when accused of any sexual inpripority.

Take it up with the Republicans, Nwokie. They're the ones who insisted Craig resign. Believe you me, EVERY DEMOCRAT wanted Craig not only to not resign but also to run for re-election in 2008.

Andrew

I don't.

"That's what I would be wondering. The guy simply wanted to hook up and some of you guys can't leave it alone. I assume it's fascination with the idea."

That isn't the issue here, Deane.

The issue is, he has come out time and again against homosexuality. He voted against laws protecting gays in the workplace. He has come out in support of Bush's thought of defining marriage in the Constitution. He has steadfastly been against gay people having the same rights as you and I.

He then turns around and does this, and slaps all of us in the face two months later saying he should have never pled guilty, that the Idaho Statesman-Journal FORCED him to with its reporting? That he categorically DENIES anything happening and says it was a setup by the undercover cop?

If he has some issues within his own closet, well that is for him and his family to work out. To spend your entire career demonizing homosexuality and gay people, then come out and do this, and try to sweep it under the rug as something else ... that is flat fucking wrong. **THAT** is the issue we (at least I) have with it.

For the record (for those of you who will surely be quick to call me some right-wing basher) if a Democrat came out and did this kind of thing against their spoken belief structure, I would have the same hypocritical views of them too. So save it, folks.

That's exactly where I'm at too.

If one is really hammering specific people, ending up caught as one in disguise is really bad hypocrisy. The worst kind, because it's a huge lie and betrayal on just about every level.

And it's not even such a personal thing with me. I simply don't think somebody with those kinds of unresolved personal issues deserves public office. We need to at least have healthy people in that role. Might not agree with them, but they need to be healthy.

A big part of that is self-acceptance, not being hosed up on a lot of dogma. If a given person can't sort themselves out, how are they capable of dealing with other issues in a solid way?

I'm angry with this guy, but also feel sorry for him. Such anguish, repression... Maybe this event will allow some of that to heal. He will be better for it.

Breaking news tonight...Craig is reconsidering his "intent" to resign. This will hurt the GOP, I'm sure they wish this would go away.

You know it.

At this point, there is no real solid exit to be made. Better to just get quiet and stay that way.

In a way, I don't blame him. Lots of his party members have dirty secrets. He's probably feeling left under the bus.

Anyone who's listened to the audio tape of the police interview will know for 100% certainty that he is guilty of what he's accused of.

However, I'm all for him sticking around if he wants to.

He's a liar and a discredit to the people of Idaho and to the responsibility and honor of being a senator and should go.

Public restrooms? How tacky. I wonder how many times he's done it and NOT been caught. Long before this ever "came out" he was accused of the same by another man who says they did have sex, but I think it was at Grand Central Station?

What a NASTY DIRTY OLD MAN!
I vote for the guy to get his penis chopped off!

On second thought, the man should get castrated, and then maybe he won't have those "urges" in public bathrooms!

Beano, it sounds like you might be more comfortable living in one of the Islamic countries.

sounds to me DEANE that you are OK with lewd conduct in Public bathrooms. COME OUT OF THE CLOSET DEANE!

Beano, in America we don't cut off people's body parts because we don't approve of how they use them. Islamic countries often do, even going so far as to kill people for such acts. Your post would indicate you are comfortable with that practice.

Just a difference in opinions. No closet involved. Too complicated?

Sure I'm very comfortable with that practice!(WITHOUT THE KILLING!) It should be a privilege, not a right to use your penis. For all these Rapists, child molesters ect, should all be castrated and Loose their right to use their penis.

>>>"It should be a privilege, not a right to use your penis."

Something new for the government to supervise. What won't they think of next.

Have you thought of which Islamic country you would prefer moving to. You might as well live in complete euphoria.

What the fuck?

This guy made a pass at another guy. That's not being a molestor or rapist. Get a grip.

Just havin fun DEAN! SHEESH! Now Im off to bed and I'm going to have SEX with my wife because I have NOT lost my privilege to use my penis.

T.M.I.

>>>"This guy made a pass at another guy."

That's the part that has me confused. What's the big deal? Why does it take a police sting operation?

If a guy goes to a bar and starts hitting on a women sitting at the bar, should he be arrested? Some of us might find the restroom incident a little revolting, but what's the difference?

Is hitting on a guy in a restroom something one should have their life destroyed over. Their career ended?

Don't give me the hypocracy crap. You don't destroy people's careers and lives over a bit of hypocracy.

Personally I feel that the guy knew going into his career that Idaho is one of the least tolerant states on this issue, what his sexual preference was, and what could happen if it surfaced. He was lucky to have not been tripped up before this. Had it been California, if elections were not so close, he would probably still be in office pending trial. Apparrantly he committed a minor crime. He was kicked to the curb...plain and simple. Sweep the dust under the rug before elections and campaigning starts up.
Do I agree with his career ending...you bet. Same reason I am glad all of the jailblazer dope heads are gone. These guys and gals are supposed to set some kind of standard and in sports are role models for our youth. What kind of role models are dopeheads, liers, and cheats for our kids. Is this a SOP for gay career politicians, have a spouse and kids as window dressing while at the same time having gay relations. I would have more respect for any politician going in and being honest about sexual preference other than heterosexual than a hypocrit any day! I would likely not vote for them however. I guess i'm just funny that way!

I think what the guy is guilty of is being a Republican.

You all know what happens when it's a Democrat in the same situation. They stay in Congress, get committee assignments, and live happily ever after.

There is some merit to this.

It goes back to the being what you speak against hypocracy. That's a tough one for people to get around.

If one is going to be holier than thou, better live up to it.

Right now, the GOP is really doing a lot of this kind of thing. Comes with maintaining the 20 something base.

Not saying it's right, but it is a factor. Makes reconsidering that holier than thou behavior worth it, IMHO. Less risk that way.

(which is exactly why I am socially liberal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y35lUuup8f8

The guy is not only a hypocrite, he's flaming gay. I have never heard anything more gay in my life than Craig's comments on Bill Clinton being a "nasty naughty boy". No wonder he's been dogged over the years with rumors of being gay.

Yeah, I saw that footage a week or so ago. I didn't remember seeing it the first time. If I had, I'm pretty sure I would have gone " Uhhh, THAT dude is in the closet - BIG TIME."

Seeing again, for the first time, just made me laugh. He seems like he should be saying "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding, how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat! You! Yes, you! behind the bikesheds, stand still laddie!"

He would have been in some deep trouble had he been a priest.

Vit..
THANK YOU for finding that footage.

Pink Floyd - In The Flesh

Are there any queers in the theatre tonight?
Get 'em up against the wall. -- 'Gainst the wall!
And that one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me.
Get him up against the wall. -- 'Gainst the wall!
And that one looks Jewish, and that one's a coon.
Who let all this riffraff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint, and another with spots!
If I had my way I'd have all of ya shot.


I tried watching "The Wall" DVD on a plane once....had to turn it off...dude next to me said "What in the hell are you watching. Actually I just shut the lid and continued to listen to the music! Interesting lyrics though and bizarre movie!

Can't you just see Craig saying that while wearing stilettos, fish net stockings, a garter belt, thong, leather mask and spanking some guy with a riding crop?

Oh. You can't? Sorry.

dj sez: "You all know what happens when it's a Democrat in the same situation. They stay in Congress, get committee assignments, and live happily ever after."

Right, because, once again, WE DON'T CARE!!!!!

I don't give a flick with what Mr. Craig does in the potty, but when a person like him goes around and legislates morality, then he's fair game to the Gotcha, You Hypocrite Syndrome.

Skep...
That's what the EXTREME doesn't get time and time again. They just wheel out there talking points 101 book and start slamming everything/one that they don't like. Insannity and Bimbo just start flinging poop against the wall hoping that it will stick somewhere. And if that doesn't work then they sick Mann Coulter on them....

If those neoCON homosexuals ever come out of the closet, gays will rule the country -- hetrosexuals haven't a chance!

And divorce rates will drop like a rock of the Empire State building.