Herb, Deane and DD just might want to read this report from Pew Research. Conservative 'values' are on the outs.

U.S. Is Taking a Political Left Turn

.

No sweat. When Hillary get in there will be a sudden and dramatic resurgence of the right.

Deane, wrong choice of words about the Queen Bimbo.

When should be if.

I pray that there are not enough stupid people in this country to actually elect that ...........

If 20 some percent can get us this clown, you guys should be worried!

There totally is 20 some percent, if not more, leaning the other way.

Tell us about the conservative "values" Deane. Do you mean Mark Foley or perhaps Dennis Hastert trying to cover up for him? Or perhaps you mean a vice president telling a senator to fuck off on the senate floor, a lot of values going on there. Or perhaps you mean Tom Delay and his little lobbing empire, or maybe you mean Duke Cunningham and his bribes. You get kicked by them and you just keep going back, that's what keeps them in business. When will you learn.

DJ said>>>>
When Hillary get in there will be a sudden and dramatic resurgence of the right.

But let's hope to God that the EXTREME RIGHT get's LEFT way behind.
TRUE Republicans is what we need.

WE need a government of the people, by the people, and most of all for the people! Instead of this "Line the Pockets" BS we have right now.

True, very true Dark.
Too bad the EXTREME REICH on this board can't seem to understand this. Their intolerance for anything outside their narrow views is incredible.

Skybill sez: "I pray that there are not enough stupid people in this country to actually elect that ..........."

Actually, there IS enough stupid people in this country that ANYBODY can get elected. We elected GWBush twice, remember.

At any rate, in one term Hillary can pretty much undo much of the Bush damage before the GOP can convincingly argue the left is shoving an agenda down everyone's throat.

But will she? She may like all those new presidential powers.

How 'bout an Obama-Olbermann ticket?

"She may like all those new presidential powers."

Good point. I'm thinking Bill enjoyed BEING President more than the general idea of having power while Hillary probably might be more like Nixon -- power hungry! Ha ha.

If there is any chance at all that she would win and I were one of the other candidates i'd go for VP. She may as well suits with a bullseye pattern on them! For the fact that she would be the first woman....(choke....sorry can't quite utter that without choking)....president, security for her would be twice that for any other male president in history. She would also be completely useless in the Middle East as their views of women as so radically different.

Skep said>>>
Hillary probably might be more like Nixon.

One of my reason why I would NEVER vote for her.

Queue HURB

5..4..3..2....you're on....

Hello.
Check. Check.
Is this mic on?

Herb

Sure way to get Herb to post...mention Nixon in any way! LOL

Nixon served his country, in the US Navy, Nixon served his country in the US Senate, then 8 years as VP.

Hillary never served in the US military. Hillary is one term Senator. Never served in the military.

DUHbya, The DICKster and Slick Willy didn't either. What's your point?

Nwokie was merely pointing out RN's honourable service to his country, whilst contrasting it with Mrs. Clinton's absence of such. After all, her husband loathes the military.

Herbert M.

"Hello.
Check. Check.
Is this mic on?"

No. Have you checked the signal path? Is the pilot light on the Darsap unit on? This stuff all worked when Deane owned the place.

Herb said>>>
her husband loathes the military.

Show us where this is so. Show us where he PERSONALLY said this.

I'd like to see an Obama-Biden ticket or Obama-Richardson.

Obama-Biden Osama-Binladen, hey, they sound about the same.

Even so, I think it will be a winner.

Regardless, Obama will at a minimum be VP in 2008. Personally, I'll vote for Hillary/Obama, because if she wins, Obama is a shoe in VP choice. Once Hillary does her 8, then Obama will slide in for his 8. But, being the maverick that I am, I'm tired of Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton. Time for new blood!! That's why I'd prefer Hillary not win the nomination. But, part of me wouldn't mind it because I know how much it will drive the right nuts.

"part of me wouldn't mind it because I know how much it will drive the right nuts."

That's why I'm voting for her.

Herb???
Where did Slick Willy PERSONALLY say he hates the millitary???

"part of me wouldn't mind it because I know how much it will drive the right nuts."

That's why I'm voting for her.

It is tempting. But then I, me myself - not imposing this on anyone else here - would be a complete hypocrite. I'm really working on that in myself.

But I will say, that if I come to my own conclusion that she's my pick, I will. No ,matter who it pisses off.

You're right to call him Slick Willy.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1100/lileks112800.asp

Herb

So is that a vote for Clinton or Bsuh?

Right now, my guy is Governor Mike Huckabee.

Herb

Whoops - edited

Herb, are you a Jew?

Herb!!!!!!!!!!

Where did Slick Willy PERSONALLY say he hates the millitary???

Herb???

It was on a bumper sticker.

"Herb, are you a Jew?"

Although I'm actually a Gentile, my Boss is a Jewish carpenter.

Herb

WOW!
Herb won't answer a question?? You've got to be kidding me. He say's he answers everything....

WHERE DID CLINTON SAY THAT HE HATED THE MILITARY??? BE A MAN HERB! SHOW US!!!!

I already did, Trixter, on August 24th, 2007 at 8:14 PM. My post also references why they call Mr. Clinton Slick Willie, because what he wrote gives him a form of deniability to what he wrote.

Kind of like Slick Willie's definition of what the term 'is' is.

Herbert Milhous

Gentile means he's a non-Jew.

You have some proof?? Notes? Personal writings by one William Jefferson Clinton???
I'd LOVE to read them.....
Just insert the URL's for us to read...

www.trixterisaclosetdemocrat.com

Great domain name, Cochise.
But you're very charitable to include the word closet in there.

Herb

Look Herb....He was 23 in 1969 when he wrote that letter to the coast gaurd. Is that any worse that Cheney dodging the draft seven times or however many times he did it? Same thing....both wanted their freedom but neither willing to step up to the plate and serve their country for it at the time.

I don't like Clinton (either one) or Cheney so i'm equally disgusted with both for dodging service.

www.toecheeseisabigotneocon.org

"...Cheney dodging the draft seven times..."

Dartktempter, that's misleading and factually not true. It wasn't draft dodging if one met the USA's deferment rules. Mr. Cheney was married with a family and met them. God Bless Dick Cheney.

Carry on.

Herb

Herb said>>>
that's misleading and factually not true.

When faced with the FACTS ONLY a true EXTREME RIGHTIE will lie about the them.
WOW!

OK...it was only five times and I don't give a rip....lot's of other patriot's had families and served their country when called to do so! I don't give a rip about politic';s on this issue......boo to Cheney and Clinton, both are dodgers plain and simple!

http://www.rense.com/general52/chenn.htm

Better wipe that egg off your face, Trixter.

Herb

OFF MY FACE???
Your the one that has egg on their face. I NEVER ONCE and I repeat ONCE said that Slick Willy didn't dodge!!!!!!!!!!!
You really need to move to Castro so you can be closer to YOUR leader. Ill needs a new propaganda minister maybe you can write some crap for him since your good at it.
Tread lightly Herr Herb.

Soon Cuba will be free.

I'll be happy to go there then, once that black-hearted commie is no longer oppressing his people.

El Herberto

Isn't that what you want Herr Herb?? EVERYONE to think as you? Herbism? Castro will afford you that in Cuba. I'll buy the ticket today buddy! Then you'll be in the land where nobody can think freely! How about N. Korea? You might like that better....

Iraq is free too now. Expedia is running a HELL of a deal.

The taxi rides from the airport will cost you, and I'm not kidding, about 800 dollars. But hey, tourism is the goal, right?

As for Clinton.....I'll be fair and post his dirty laundry as well:

http://www.compleatheretic.com/pubs/addendum/loathing.html

Text of Bill Clinton's Letter to ROTC Colonel
I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say.

First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.

Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.

I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations Oct. 15 and Nov. 16.

Interlock with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to "participation in war in any form."

From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation.

The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.

Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill and maybe die for their country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.

The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true, we are all finished anyway.)

When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to use.

But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent, I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies--there were none--but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.

At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1-D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on Sept. 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.

I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.

And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal.

Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Col. Jones for me.

Merry Christmas.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton

Iraq is free???
With explosions killing civilians and US military men and women how is that free? When is the last time a roadside bomb when off in SE Portland or Beaverton???

Well if a bad leader being no longer in control defines free, then they are free.

Right? When Castro goes, they are free. When Saddam went, Iraq became free.

Thanks you Dark for the info. Too bad it wasn't Herr Herb that was able to find this.
I like the pathological liar bit. Kind of reminded me of DUHbya....

Kudos, Darktemper.
And Trixter-I indeed posted a link referencing that letter on this very thread: August 24, 2007 at 8:14 pm

Herb

Were did you post it cause I must be blind????

August 24, 2007 at 8:14 pm:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1100/lileks112800.asp

The reference is there, but not in its entirety as you were so kind to post.

Herbert Milhous Nixon III