http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20221295/

Gotta love religious sponsored hatred! Especially of a person who helped secure the right of these weak minded losers to congregate.

And I have to say, these mega churches are the WORST of society, and I'd personally like to see their tax exempt status eliminated and their corrupt money hungry founders put in jail for fraud.

The guy was not a member of the church, and the church stilll payed for the service at another site, and furnished food etc, sounds like they were pretty sympathetic to the family.

They might as well have spit on his grave. The people of this church are assholes.

The church members have a right to believe in what they wish to. We have freedom of religion in this country. While I don't agree with them, many believe homosexuality is a choice and a sin. They have a right to think that way if they wish.

Why, Vitalogy, should everyone conform to your specific beliefs?

“We did decline to host the service — not based on hatred, not based on discrimination, but based on principle,” Simons told The Associated Press."

Bullshit. That's exactly what it was.

Deane writes:
The church members have a right to believe in what they wish to. We have freedom of religion in this country. While I don't agree with them, many believe homosexuality is a choice and a sin. They have a right to think that way if they wish.

I don't think anyone was arguing that the church had NO right to deny having a service for this American veteran, only that it points out how ignorant and stupid it was, for a group who are supposedly "Christian." Some Christians apparently believe in forgiveness, redemption, and praying for another's soul; apparently this group determined that this soul was beyond saving and they should just punt on him.

You should definitely have the right to be bigoted and stupid in America, no doubt. But, there's nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Andrew

Deane, what part of my post insinuated that the church members don't a have a right to think and say what they want?

Exactly!

This comes up a lot.

We have the freedom to speak freely, with only a coupla narrow exceptions.

This does not come with some implied protection however.

What I see alot is, "I'm just speaking freely." so "don't nail me for that, we all are entitled" As if it's just ok to say ignorant or bigoted things without others also speaking in like kind...

>>>"Deane, what part of my post insinuated that the church members don't a have a right to think and say what they want?"

I believe when you refer to them as assholes, you have implied that if they don't have your point of view, they are somehow lesser and unworthy individuals.

I don't happen to agree with their position on the funeral or their religious belief, but I don't think they are assholes. If their true religious belief is against homosexuality, then it would be hypocritical of them to continue with the funeral plans. Again, I emphasize that don't agree with their thinking in the first place.

That's an interesting line to take.

It is worth noting, they could very easily exercise some tolerance and honor a VET, who happens to be gay, accordingly.

Failing to do this, not holding the views they do, goes a long way toward a characterization, like "asshole" being defensible.

At the end of the day, we are talking about a vet, not a gay person, woman, etc...

Doing this does not diminish their beliefs, particularly given the easy out just focusing on the services rendered presents to all involved.

Deane writes:
If their true religious belief is against homosexuality, then it would be hypocritical of them to continue with the funeral plans.

No, actually, what is says is that their fear of homosexuality trumps anything Jesus said about forgiveness or loving one another. So they think Homosexuality is a sin. OK. But we are ALL sinners according to the Bible, right? So, how are they deciding the threshold for sin to allow a service at their church? How is one to know if they are under the "sin threshold" at this church? Or is being gay simply way beyond that?

Can EVERYONE be saved or be forgiven by God for their sins, or are some people (e.g. homosexuals) beyond redemption? That's what these churchmembers' behavior says to me.

It's perfectly fine if you think homosexuality is a sin, to not engage in that lifestyle, even to avoid friendships with gay people (although the Bible says you should be preaching the gospel to them to save them). But to say, "Well, I know this person can't be saved and has sinned too much, let's not allow a service at our church" seems to go against the very basis of Christianity.

Andrew

Nailed it.

Deane nailed it right on the head with his first post here. People have the right to their opinions, and in the case of a church here, the right to state it. As misguided as I may find it, it IS their right.

THEY are the ones that have to deal with their Maker when it comes to end game for them ... that's when they get theirs.

Again, no one in this thread has argued that this church doesn't have the RIGHT to their opinions, just as the KKK has the right to theirs and even to march and express themselves in public if they wish. That doesn't mean we shouldn't stay silent on how we feel about them, either. At least you know where the KKK stands, so you aren't surprised when they march out their same bigoted, ignorant stands. With a Christian church, it's still baffling that they would do something so un-Christian as this.

Andrew

I find it interesting, that someone that wasnt a member of a church before he died, decided he wanted a church burial.

I think the church acted reasonably, and with a good deal of sympathy for the deceased.

Even though the person lived a life at odds with the churchs core beliefs, they were willing to pay for his services.

This isn't about the dead guy, but the survivors. He's gone, no worries, on a fast track to seeing whatever faith he has validated.

Those that remember him need some closure --that's where just having the memorial, without making gay an issue, is the compassionate thing to do. Now that memory has some issues linked with it, that in and of themselves, will need closure.

This is not helpful.

The church didn't cancel the service because he was gay.

Read the following article from the Dallas Morning News.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/081007dnmetgay funeral.3617689.html

They canceled the service (and offered to pay for it at a different facility along with the food too, which they sent anyway) when the family asked that they be allowed to have their own people officiate the service.

I agree with what the church did, however from reading the above article, it sounds like they didn't try to reach a compromise before they cancelled it.

I think they should have at least tried to reach some middle ground.

I would think any church would have more respect for the deceased and his family. Especially a vet.

My belief is this is damage control because it made the church look really cold hearted. The opposite of how I think a religious group should act. Shame on them. We all know why it was cancelled.

Face it, this church, it's leaders, and it's member, are lame.

I wonder if anyone here opposes giving a gay soldier a Purple Heart?

You get a purple heart for being injured in action with enemy forces. The various services have rules requiring different levels of injuries, but the bottom line is, it has to be in direct contact with enemy forces.

You haven't answered the question: does anyone here oppose giving a gay soldier a purple heart?

I don't. People are people, bullets are bullets, enemies are enemies right?

>>>"You haven't answered the question: does anyone here oppose giving a gay soldier a purple heart?"

Troll

Doesnt matter, the person would get the purple heart, and if found out to have violated dont ask, dont tell, would be discharged.

Doesnt matter if the military member violated another reg, if they earn the purple heart they get it.

okie: "doesn matter"

good for you nwokie for putting the country first.

deane: "troll"

hmm . . . maybe the president can use your response when he is asked questions he doesn't want to answer either.

The citeria for a purple heart, is very specific, to be injured as a result of enemy action. You only get it if shot, or otherwise injured while bad guys trying to hurt you. If your in a combat zone, and have an auto accident, you dont get a purple heart, unless the driver was evading enemy fire, or an IED.
If you are working on an airplane, and fall off, and break your hand, no purple heart.

DJ said>>>
Why, Vitalogy, should everyone conform to your specific beliefs?

Should we conform to yours?