There's never an end to the amazing and sick crap the Democrats can come up with. Now, not only do the leading Presidential candidates want to continue killing babies, they want it to be free and easy with me paying for it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-dems18jul18,1,639458.story?co ll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

How can you libs continue to support such despicable nonsense. I assume that's what godlessness does to people.

But, I assume you're okay with your tax dollars going to kill innocent Iraqis?

Hypocrite!

Vitalogy, how can you call me a hypocrite when you don't even know how I would respond to your question? But, since you've already reached your conclusion, I won't respond to the question.

Deane....i'm already on way to many mailing lists and don't want to sign up. Can you copy and paste the article if not to huge?

"..you're okay with your tax dollars going to kill innocent Iraqis.."

That's like saying Mr. Lincoln funded the killing of innocent slaves during the Civil War.

While some undoubtedly died as a result of Mr. Lincoln's decisions, that was neither Mr. Lincoln's intent, nor would any argue that it would have been better for them to remain enslaved.

Fact is, the democrat party continues to their culture of death by promoting abortion on demand and assisted suicide.

Herb

Innocent Iraqi's, most of the Iraqi deaths are due to Al Queda or other militant groups. You probably also complain about the innocent german deaths attributed to Curtis Lemay's 8th AF in WWII.

They are more likely just supporting Freedom of Choice whereas the hardliner repubs want to dictate to us what is and what will be. While I do not agree with abortion just for the convienance of it I do believe it to be valid in some cases. Same as assisted suicide. I hope one day if I am in an uncurrable state of complete pain and suffering with no hope that I have the option to leave this plane of existence with some dignity.

More innocent people have died in Iraq than terrorists. That's a fact, jack.

You can continue to drag out excuse after excuse and compare history in an effort to dodge reality, but the bottom line is it doesn't matter. The Iraq war was not necessary, so when innocent people die by the barrel of our tax supported gun, versus tax supported abortion, there is no difference. Death is death, and tax payer money supports both. So if you support the war, but decry abortion, you are a hypocrite to the highest degree.

Darktemper, as you requested.

Democrats pledge support for wide access to abortion

By Mike Dorning
Washington Bureau

July 18, 2007

WASHINGTON -- Elizabeth Edwards said Tuesday that her husband's health-care plan would provide insurance coverage of abortion.

Speaking on behalf of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards before the family planning and abortion-rights group Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Edwards lauded her husband's health-care proposal as "a true universal health-care plan" that would cover "all reproductive health services, including pregnancy termination," referring to abortion.

Edwards was joined by Democratic candidates Sens. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.) at the group's political organizing conference in addressing issues at the core of the political clash between cultural liberals and conservatives, including abortion rights, access to contraception and sex education.

The recent 5-4 Supreme Court decision upholding a federal ban on a late-term abortion procedure that opponents call "partial-birth abortion" has increased anxieties among reproductive-rights advocates over the future of constitutional protections for abortion rights. All three of the Democratic campaigns used the forum to signal their determination to appoint Supreme Court nominees who would uphold the 1973 Roe vs. Wade abortion ruling.

Obama, who earlier gained the endorsement of Washington, D.C., Mayor Adrian Fenty, offered the group a vision of equal opportunity for women, tying a call for improved access to contraceptives for low-income women with a call for an "updated social contract" that includes paid maternity leave and expanded school hours.

Asked about his proposal for expanded access to health insurance, Obama said it would cover "reproductive-health services." Contacted afterward, an Obama spokesman said that included abortions.

Clinton has not yet released her health-care proposal. She provided a bruising critique of Bush administration policies and Republican conservatives on abortion rights and contraception policy.

She criticized cuts in contraception services for low-income women, lengthy delays in approving over-the-counter sales of the "morning-after" contraceptive pill and redirection of sex education funds to abstinence-only programs that do not include information on contraceptive use or condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Vitology, your simplistic viewpoint suggests you haven't been on this earth terribly long. I suspect you recently came out of one of our liberal colleges with your head crammed full of unrealistic liberal mush.

Deane, why do you think Rudy "the baby killer" Giuliani is the front runner in the Republican primary race? Why do you think so many Republicans can in good conscience support a baby butcher? Couldn't be blind hypocrites now, could they? And you wouldn't be for criticizing only the Democratic pro choice candidates and not the Republican front runner, now, would you?

There are a lot of things the US Government does that I oppose and don't want to have my tax dollars go for. But we live in a Democratic Republic, representative government, so I don't have a direct say. That's just the way it goes.

Andrew

Deane, just like you're wrong on most of your assessments, politically speaking, you're dead wrong on your assessment of me. Nice try though.

When one can't win an argument on their own merits, just resort to name calling and false generalizations. It's page one of the GOP handbook on how to debate.

And most of the "Innocent" people that have died in Iraq, died at the hands of the terrorists.

Andrew, to be perfectly clear on my view on abortion, I am opposed to it. The reason is not because of anything the Republicans say or do, I'm just opposed to taking human life.

Are you enjoying your life? Would it have been OK with you if someone had stuck an ice pick through your skull at birth? Why is it some are lucky enough to be born and others are unlucky and get murdered at birth or before?

It would seem to me that pregnancy prevention is a far better way to go. I'd even support tax dollars going for contraceptive purposes and better education.

I'm not especially a Gulliani supporter, but don't care much either way about his abortion views since President's don't make laws, Congress does.

Wow.

Did the, "get the GOP word out" memo just get circulated?

I've noted these same points raised in a number of venues...

There is a paid, make noise in the forums effort falling into place (yeah it's a GOP thing). Interested helpers would only help to leverage that dis-information effort.

Makes one wonder...

Missing, I have no idea what the Republicans may be saying. I have my own views, I could care less what position the Republican Party takes.

I think that Darktemper summed up my feelings perfectly, "While I do not agree with abortion just for the convenience of it I do believe it to be valid in some cases. Same as assisted suicide. I hope one day if I am in an uncurable state of complete pain and suffering with no hope that I have the option to leave this plane of existence with some dignity."

I also think that Deane has an good idea we would all support, "It would seem to me that pregnancy prevention is a far better way to go. I'd even support tax dollars going for contraceptive purposes and better education."

Herb said, "While some undoubtedly died as a result of Mr. Lincoln's decisions, that was neither Mr. Lincoln's intent, nor would any argue that it would have been better for them to remain enslaved."

However, while our troops shivered in the cold without blankets less than a mile away, his crazy wife did her best to bankrupt the treasury with endless trips to the 19th century version of Ikea. For all the proud bluster of the GOP, only Ike knew how to make a budget, protect our nation and support our troops. Eisenhower was also the only Republican President who paid any more than lip service to minorities, so you can drop that myth too.

Nwokie said, "You probably also complain about the innocent German [and Japanese] deaths attributed to Curtis Lemay's 8th AF in WWII."

Funny thing, that proud General -- arguably the greatest mind in the history of air warfare -- said the same thing about the slaughter of civilians by our bombing campaigns. "I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side..." -- General Curtis LeMay. After all, for stretches, we were killing half a million people a week, and virtually all of them were civilians.

The problem with dragging all of this into the argument is that it undermines the original point. If you do not like abortion or assisted suicide, try to stay on topic. Otherwise it just sounds like you are justifying and embracing some evils of mankind, while at the same time, pointing out and attacking other evils of mankind. There cannot be a context that makes one comfortable. You are a complete hypocrite spewing "sanctity of life" while cutting people down with the sword of battle. If killing babies and old folks on the public dollar is wrong, it is wrong. Period.

As Vitalogy said, "The Iraq war was not necessary, so when innocent people die by the barrel of our tax supported gun, versus tax supported abortion, there is no difference. Death is death, and tax payer money supports both. So if you support the war, but decry abortion, you are a hypocrite to the highest degree."

Deane writes:
Andrew, to be perfectly clear on my view on abortion, I am opposed to it. The reason is not because of anything the Republicans say or do, I'm just opposed to taking human life.

Good for you. I'm also also opposed to abortion, but I also happen to be pro-choice.

Are you enjoying your life? Would it have been OK with you if someone had stuck an ice pick through your skull at birth?

Surely you know that most abortions don't involve "an ice pick," that the now banned late term abortions were extremely rare and that they were performed reluctantly, due to a deformed fetus or a complication to the life of the mother?

It would seem to me that pregnancy prevention is a far better way to go. I'd even support tax dollars going for contraceptive purposes and better education.

And yet, the Republicans in Congress and the White House that you characterize as "too liberal" support abstinence education that has been proven a failure. You do realize that abortions went DOWN significantly under Clinton, right?

I'm not especially a Gulliani supporter, but don't care much either way about his abortion views since President's don't make laws, Congress does.

And yet, you started this thread by criticizing the Democratic presidential candidates for being pro-choice. So you must have cared about their abortion views when you posted that, right? Don't you agree that it's hypocritical to criticize pro-choice Democrats without mentioning a peep about Giuliani?

Andrew

Yeah, the left really talks a good game in trying to distance themselves from ice-picks in the skull.

But when it comes to the right to use one on an innocent little kid, they're right there backing up the abortionist's right to do just that..and on the most innocent among us, no less.

Spin that, leftists.

Herb

Herb, how do you know pro-choicers like Rudy Giuliani advocate using ice picks to perform abortions? Has Rudy actually SAID that? Do you think his alleged advocacy of ice pick abortions is one of the reasons he's the Republican front-runner?

Andrew

Don't point to the unacceptable position of another to try and excuse your own sorry party's wholesale approval of killing innocents.

Nice leftist attempt, but no dice here.

Herb

And the fascist right would have the mother die during childbirth so the the brain dead baby she is carrying can be born! You Dork......As others have stated in here we don't all agree on all terms but feel that in some cases are necessary for the wellfare of the mother. I'm not on the right or left, I simply walk the down the white, sometimes gray, line in the center of the road! I don't back party politician's I back what they stand for and believe in. So on election night I simply choose the lesser of the two evil's! Oh....and HE better have some cahoneys and not be a wimp either!

No one has ever claimed that, just that the mothers physical health be endangered before a late term abortion.

Not even the AMA claims there is a medical reason for a partial birth abortion. Only psycholigical reasons.

Whoa there Nelly. Easy there, steady.

Icepick, coat hanger, and other medieval style abortion is illegal, has always been illegal, and since the Supreme Court decision, virtually non-existent in our seedy motels and alleys.

This might surprise some of you, but no American likes abortion. Not a single one. It is a terrifically painful medical procedure that no woman would "volunteer" to have done without a damn solid reason.

Just because some women "volunteer" for button noses, perky knockers and tight tooshies, does not mean that this procedure is a lark. Women who have Caesareans, mastectomies, or kidney transplants are given the best treatment possible, respect and after care.

Abortion is no different, except that cancer patients are seldom accosted by mobs or have to dive under a table during a shooting or have a sudden miscarriage due to a bomb going off in the clinic.

I think that "one issue" politics are stupid. There, I said it. I do not care if you are rich, poor, right or left. If only one damn thing in the whole world means a hoot to you, then you really do not see the world at all.

If, in the future, we all vote for the whole candidate, as an instrument of our will as a people, he or she serve our communities and not just "one issue" lobbies.

Study, research and dig. It will broaden your mind. If, as a nation, we insist on more than just lip service about a shared point of view, our Democracy will be restored. Can we try it out?

>>>"And yet, the Republicans in Congress and the White House that you characterize as "too liberal" support abstinence education that has been proven a failure."

I don't control, or even influence the Republicans in Congress.

>>>"And yet, you started this thread by criticizing the Democratic presidential candidates for being pro-choice."

I criticized them for wanting me to pay for it, and to make it free and plentiful. Abortion on demand.

"...your own sorry party's wholesale approval of killing innocents."

But you approve of the GOP's wholesale approval of killing innocent Iraqi's?

When did we kill any innocent Iraqi's?

The Iraqi's are no more innocent than the germans and Japanese in 44.

Innocent life is innocent life, right? Does country of origin increase or decrease the value of any given life?

Deane, read the news. Innocent Iraqis are being killed every day by the hundreds. How many car bombs went off each day before our invasion?

"...no American likes abortion. Not a single one."

Except those who profit from it. There's money in them thar kills.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07060811.html

Nice try. If only what you wrote were true.

Herb

>>>"How many car bombs went off each day before our invasion?"

Vitaolgy, I'm reminded of someone who posted on this forum some months ago that the Japanese woudn't have attacked Pearl Harbor if we had been nicer to them. Somehow, the attack was all are fault.

A position that stupid could only come from some young, not dry behind the ears liberal, fresh out of one of our liberal college where they have been bombarded with unrealistic views by socialist professors who have never earned a real dollar in their entire lives.

Deane, answer the question: How many car bombs went off in Iraq before our invasion?

You may call me stupid, but one of the stupidest comments I've seen today is from you: "When did we kill any innocent Iraqi's?"

Do you really think not one single innocent person in Iraq has been killed?

Herb, nice try on your pro-lifer site. Did you bother to read the annual report from Planned Parenthood that shows abortions account for only 3% of the services they provide?

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/Annual_report.pdf

Yep, and no one likes war either, except the ones that profit from it. And last time I checked, billions are worth more than millions when it comes do the almighty dollar.

Vitalogy, I did not intend to call you stupid. I believe I worded my post carelessly. I meant the statement on Pearl Harbor that someone else had made was stupid.

I may question your posts, I may question your experiences and the length of time you've had to gain experience on serious matters, but that is only directed at the current thinking you are presenting, not you personally.

Nwokie said, "The Iraqi's [sic] are no more innocent than the [G]ermans and Japanese in [19]44."

We went after Hussein, Hitler and Hirohito because of their actions. Whether they supported it wholeheartedly or not, it was not the civilian population that caused those wars. It was the leadership of totalitarian governments. Citizens fight wars, citizens fund wars and citizens build war machines. Leaders are responsible for the casualties.

Fair enough.

"Did you bother to read the annual report from Planned Parenthood that shows abortions account for only 3% of the services they provide?"

That you actually trust Planned Parenthood, who profits from killing little kids, speaks volumes.

Herb

That you actually support career politicians due solely to party affiliation who would sooner shit on you and take away your civil rights speaks volumes as well!

Testify Brother!

Deane writes:
>>>"And yet, the Republicans in Congress and the White House that you characterize as "too liberal" support abstinence education that has been proven a failure."

I don't control, or even influence the Republicans in Congress.

So you didn't vote for a Republican Senator or a Republican Congressman? Your Congresspeople are all non-Republicans?

>>>"And yet, you started this thread by criticizing the Democratic presidential candidates for being pro-choice."

I criticized them for wanting me to pay for it,

Welcome to representative government, my friend. Both you and I can list plenty of things we disapprove of (even morally) that our govenment pays for with our tax dollars. What should we do about it? Should we give everyone in the country a veto on how their tax dollars are spent?

and to make it free and plentiful. Abortion on demand.

Don't know anyone who wants abortion to be "plentiful." Sounds like yet another rightwing strawman that doesn't exist. Bill Clinton said it best when he said he wanted abortion to be "safe, legal, and rare," not "plentiful." And Clinton walked the walk on that one; there was a huge drop in abortions during his presidency.

Andrew

I expect that a place like Planned Parenthood has to go through some form of audits before they put out an annual report, so yes, I trust the numbers as they have been presented. The fact that you don't is part of your problem. You pick and choose which facts to believe and which to ignore out of convenience for your positions.

And if you want talk about tax dollars, we are spending (borrowing actually) $285 million a day in Iraq, and that's approximately the same amount of tax dollar support Planned Parenthood received for an entire year, where only 3% of their services were for abortions.

Since planned parent hood doesnt actully do the abortions, but refer to doctors that do. Abortion would be a very small part of their budget. Its a very large part of their overall service though.

Nwokie, you're a source of misinformation today. Perhaps you should review the annual report I posted. Of all services provided:

37% contraception
29% treatment and testing for STD's
20% cancer screening and prevention
10% pregnancy tests, prenatal, midlife, and infertility clients
3% abortion procedures
1% other

Try checking your facts before posting your non-sense.

No, thats their costs, from their budget, it doesnt reflect the abortions done by clinics and doctors that they refer girls and women to.
Its like saying Hitler didnt kill any Jews. Its true he didnt, but he sent an awfully lot to their deaths.

Sicko is big right now, have you seen it?

Simply put, it is about the huge profits in medicine and medical care, and the brazen opportunists who benefit every day from the illness and pain of others.

To say that all abortion doctors delight in their work -- and cannot wait for another rape to practice their craft -- is akin to accusing all firemen of being arsonists. There may be a profit in it, but not everyone is thrilled about making a living from suffering.

A little logic, like hot mustard, goes a long way. As Vitalogy said, "Try checking your facts before posting your non-sense."

About abortion;

Here's a small confession and/or epiphany for me today. I do not mean for this to sound high and mighty or noble or anything. So take it with a grain of salt.

I hit an absolute low today. Emotionally. I was absolutely CRUSHED by a story I read on CNN about something bad happening to a kid. I'm not going to link the story. It's too much and not needed. But I had this reaction that involved wanting to do great harm. I mean actually want to murder the man involved. Not to pretend I am some Unbreakable Superhero. But just so I could try and get over it. It's truly awful. I don't think I have ever cried at work before but today...anyway.

I thought about how some may have that same feeling about abortion. Similar emotions at work. Totally different circumstances. The base seemed so similar though that I had a moment to understand why abortion is SUCH a topic these days. It really made me reconsider all kinds of things regarding legal issues vs. moral issues and repercussions of actions.

It's more than a little tragic that it took that fucking story to shake me. But it did. I get more of the abortion debate now.

Man, I just needed to vent that. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go spoil my kid.

Thanks for posting, Chickenjuggler.

It's true that pro-lifers see innocent as innocent, pre-born or born.

"Its like saying Hitler didnt kill any Jews. Its true he didnt, but he sent an awfully lot to their deaths."

Outstanding point, Nwokie.

Herbert Milhous

Nwokie: How can you expect anyone here to take anything you say seriously if you are so far off the mark on your facts? You are flat out wrong, and it's been proven in broad daylight.

First of all, we are talking SERVICES not costs. If you would have read the annual report (took me about 5 mins) you would understand this. Instead, you claim things you can't back up with facts. I challenge you to provide any sort of credible evidence that abortion is a "very large part of their service". I just posted information that drastically undermines your position. 3% of services is not a "very large part" of anything. This is directly from the annual report that has been audited and is available upon request from the Office of the Attorney General of New York.

And as far as Hitler killing Jews, that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood.

And Herb, you compromise your own intelligence when you tell someone they have an outstanding point when they are really dead wrong. You are smarter than that and you should be embarrassed.

Hitler killed Jews, Planned Parenthood kills babies..

Ok I see the comparison.

Then by your rules, Bush kills US troops.

Nice try. The part about Hitler killing Jews is a dodge from the fact he's dead wrong. It's what weak people do when they can't admit they're wrong.

"And as far as Hitler killing Jews, that has nothing to do with Planned Parenthood."

Oh, really?

The founder of Planned Parenthood used the same playbook:

"The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population…"
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Birth control itself, often denounced as a violation of natural law, is nothing more or less than the facilitation of the process of weeding out the unfit, of preventing the birth of defectives or of those who will become defectives."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"The unbalance between the birth rate of the 'unfit' and the 'fit,' [is] the greatest present menace to civilization… the most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"The campaign for birth control is not merely of eugenic value, but is practically identical with the final aims of eugenics."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying… a dead weight of human waste… an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"The procreation of [the diseased, the feeble-minded and paupers] should be stopped."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order..."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"[Mandatory] sterilization for [the insane and feeble-minded] is the answer."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

"Give dysgenic groups [people with 'bad genes'] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."
Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood

Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood, proposed the American Baby Code that states, "No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child… without a permit for parenthood".

Margaret Sanger, Founder of Planned Parenthood, proposed the Population Congress with the aim, "...to give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization."

"As we celebrate the 100th birthday of Margaret Sanger, our outrageous and our courageous leader, we will probably find a number of areas in which we may find more about Margaret Sanger than we thought we wanted to know..."
Faye Wattleton, Past-president of Planned Parenthood

From:
http://www.lifedynamics.com/DeathCamps/Holocaust6.cfm


Herbert M.

And your point is?

Can you convince me that 3% is a very large part anything?

Nwokie said>>>
Most of the Iraqi deaths are due to Al Queda or other militant groups.

Ignorance is bliss!!!!

About 4% of nazi Germany's armed forces were SA/SD, so I guess their conduct wasn't important.

Under 5% of the US population is gay, so I guess their rights are unimportant.

>>>"Ignorance is bliss!!!!"

There's nothing like first hand experience is there?

I was wondering something.....what it is like to go through life with blinders on?

Simple!

You don't miss a thing, provided you don't slip up and take them off. Once that happens, it gets kind of ugly.

(been there, done that, am better for it)

I think a few here have a unique perspective on this. No names but not hard to pin the tale on the Donkey's either!

Nwokie, clearly you lack any sort of critical thinking skills. To prove you wrong, yet again, consider this:

If 5% of the population is gay, does this make gays a "very large part of the US population"??

You say abortion services account for "a very large part of the services Planned Parenthood provide". Yet the facts show that only 3% of their services are for abortions. I'm still waiting for someone to convince me that 3% is a "very large part" of anything.

Anytime an innocent life is intentionally snuffed out, it's a big deal.

Herb

That's not the debate Herb. The debate is whether abortions are a "very large part" of Planned Parenthood's services. In your hatred towards Planned Parenthood and oppostion to abortion, are you willing to make that claim as well, or are you willing to rely on your common sense that what Nwokie said is flat out wrong?

"That's not the debate Herb."

It's germane to the debate and obvious why you don't want to address it.

If we were talking about something less serious, like how large lot sizes should be, or if a Max line should be extended somewhere, it would matter little.

But we're talking about the intentional snuffing out of an innocent life. It matters.

Nice try.

Herb

Okay, then let's talk about the intentional snuffing out of life of innocent civilians in Iraq, if you're so inclined.

OK lets talk about it, no US troops have intentionally killed any iraqi civilians, except a couple that we are trying for murder.

The US doesnt, and never has as a policy intentionally killed civilians.

There is a difference. In WAR civilian casualties are expected, unfortunate but just a fact. Since when did we declare WAR on unborn babies?

That said please understand that this is a complex issue for me. I feel that in some cases early term's are acceptable, just not as a convienance. I am also pro-life. This is not a black and white issue so don't try and label it as such. I am against abortion as a convienance.

"no US troops have intentionally killed any iraqi civilians"

Bullshit. Tens of thousands of deaths, if not 100,000+, have occured as a result of our military action in Iraq. And these deaths are of viable human beings that leave loved ones behind. Ask yourself this, how many US troops and Iraqi citizens would be walking this earth had Bush not made the stupid decision to invade? I'm no fan of abortion, but my energy goes towards those that are viable today, not a clump of cells in a woman's body that may or may not ever be viable.

My bottom line is that I don't believe the government has the right to force a woman to give birth. So, that's why I leave that choice up to the woman herself. And just like many other choices we have a in a free society, if you don't like abortion, there is no one forcing you to have one.

If we hadn't eliminated Saddams govt, there would be many more Americans dead today, and probably a lot more Irqaqi's.

Typical lib to hide their head in the sand.

Nwokie writes:
If we hadn't eliminated Saddams govt, there would be many more Americans dead today, and probably a lot more Irqaqi's.

Some people believe there's a tooth fairy, too. Doesn't make it true.

Andrew

Nwokie, do you prefer to go on predictions of what could have happened, or facts of actions that actually have happened?

And I highly doubt that Saddam would have been able to kill 3600+ US troops, even in his wet dreams.

Not troops, civilians, many more would have died, if Saddam had taken or destroyed the Saudi oil fields. For every dollar the price of oil goes up, any Americans die.

And if the price of oil had hit 90-100 dollars, thousands of Americans would have died.

WTF??

I guess the stills and bathtub labs in Oklahoma churn out the really good stuff.

More like Mississippi or Bama

*Plonk!*


Fuck it. Double *Plonk!*

You may be the only person since 1996 to still use the term *Plonk!*

@mc

And I love it too.

Old school Internet was the best Internet.

The beauty of it resonates today. New school people grok what *Plonk!* means right away. It's got staying power and packs a nice punch, even if aged.

Just picture it Mc: You've got 'em pinned. Seriously solid ownage is within your grasp. Type it up, taste it for a moment, then hit that carriage return / enter key for the gold.

*Plonk!*

That's really what it's all about. Using it, as I often do here, really is all about seeing a job well done, and wanting that person to know it in that fundemental way they would in person.

Of course, I could (and do) say, "nicely done", or "fuck yes!", or "Amen", etc... ,but why not mix it up a little bit? Gives the place some texture and character.

Notice the "@" sign? I'm seeing that more often these days. Pretty cool new school evolution. I like it and it sure beats introductory statements, looking up the quote operator, or any number of more complex things we normally use for this.

It's fun stuff. Relax and enjoy, explore a little. Won't hurt, I promise.

Cheers!

NWokie sez: "Not troops, civilians, many more would have died, if Saddam had taken or destroyed the Saudi oil fields. For every dollar the price of oil goes up, any Americans die."

Heck, even Bush himself would call this "fuzzy math".

Deane sez: "There's never an end to the amazing and sick crap the Democrats can come up with. Now, not only do the leading Presidential candidates want to continue killing babies, they want it to be free and easy with me paying for it."

Better your money than mine. I know that ZERO of my tax dollars goes to "killing babies" -- its being spent on something more productive -- building caskets for dead American soldiers who signed up to rid Iraq of WMDs.