Was just listening to Lars defending speeders on the Interstate. I guess he is selective in the laws he wants to support.

Illegal speeders are more dangerous than illegal aliens.

Ya know.....Those who drive less than the speed limit are just as hazardous as speeders...maybe even more so. They cause undo backups, make people enraged to do stupid things, and generally impede traffic. Especially those who drive right at or slightly less than the speed limit in the fast lane! People who talk on cell phones and drive are more dangerous than illegal aliens!

What about those of us who do the actual speed limit or go about 5 mph over it (which most police allow) and get tailed by those wanting to go 10 mph or more faster. He calls us "Jr. Cops." So why can't I be a junior cop keeping speeding down? After all he supports civilian militia guarding the borders.

I agree with Denny.

Cell phone talkers without hands-free capability and elderly drivers impeding traffic are more of a concern to me than someone going 70 on the freeway.

Herb

Well....the law plainly states slower traffic must keep to the right. It is not up to me to try and prevent someone from breaking the law. If you try that these days you'll likely wind up getting shot at. I use the 10% over posted rule myself and have not ha a problem, 77 in a 70, 66 in a 60, 27.5 in a 25, etc. By keeping it below that 10% figure it's not worth the officers time to stop and ticket you. I always drive at the posted speed in construction zones though....fines are doubled and those guys deserve the brake!

What I don't understand is those who feel the need to tailgate a snail in the fast lane when the other two lanes are wide open. If I can go around obstacles I do. Why? Is it an ego thing?

When the right lane on I-5 is only going the speed limit or lower, I stay in the left lane 5 mph over the limit. I don't like to constantly lane change as that is dangerous, so anyone coming up behind me at more than 10 mph over the limit stays stuck behind me until I can at least past the slower right lane drivers. And if they honk or try to get inches away from my back bumper, then I stay in the left lane and make them be the ones to go into the right lane later — after I call the state cops on 911.

I go the speed limited posted. Keeps things simple.

Christ, just don't keep Lars stuck behind you. Remember, he carries a pistol and would use it claiming you were causing danger to his life by forcing him to go around you.

Good point.

You guys also need to remember....Ol' Smokey isn't always driving a black & white anymore. I've seen PLENTY of state police pulling people over in cars you'd never suspect were police cars.
Unless you've got a CB and can decipher trucker lingo about where the bears are, you're really taking your chances.

Herb

You know purposely impedeing traffic is just another form of road rage don't ya! You're no better than the tailgater behind you. You both are guilty of road rage. I find it less stressful to just get the hell out of their way. Once in a great while you feel some vindication when you see that asshole pulled over later on down the freeway by ol' smokey. Don't get sucked down to that level. When the center or right lane is open move right. Hell there have been a couple of times I was jamming to some good tunes tooling down the freeway in the left lane, had checked the mirrors only moments earlier and completely clear with traffic to my right, then I looked up and out of nowhere there was a squad car behind me lights flashing, I was only 6 over in a 70 and moved to the right as quickly as I could and he took off like a rocket. I don't even know how long he was there, I never heard him. Just a good idea not to hang there unless passing.

*** Note ***
This post should actually precede the post Herb made. They are now out of order. I deleted instead of edited it and threw them out of order.....sorry bout that!

"after I call the state cops on 911."

You mean you somebody actually answered and you weren't put on hold for 15 minutes? Amazing!

I'm rapidly settling in to agreeing with Chris on this one.

Go the posted speed, don't sweat minor variations (+ or - a few percent), and have zero worries.

If there is an issue with speeding, it is the speeders issue period.

Speed kills. It decreases reaction time, it decreases road adhesion, it decreases the driver's ability to get important information needed to make critical driving decisions.

Sorry, but the facts will never support the contention that slow drivers are more dangerous than speeding drivers. Slow drivers do add risk to the roadway, but nothing like speeding drivers do.

Don't forget that the roadway is engineered for certain speeds. Straight stretches of I-5 are designed for 70 mph, but the metro areas are designed for 60 mph or so. Maybe your car can handle faster speeds, but can the roadway?

Finally, as has been stated, speeding will get you a pretty expensive ticket and a nice hike in your insurance rates.

(FYI - I am an Oregon state certified Driver's Education instructor, and have been teaching this stuff to teenagers for over 10 years)

radioblogman sez: "I don't like to constantly lane change as that is dangerous"

I agree with william shatner. It is YOU, the one who doesn't want to change lanes the one who is dangerous on the highway. Let the cops do the law enforcing. Meanwhile, you should obey the law and get out of the left lanes after passing a vehicle.

(This applies to the middle lane of a three lane highway as well. There is no such thing as a "truck lane" unless designated by signs. If you're in the middle lane and going slow (ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE BEING PASSED BY CARS ON THE RIGHT), get your butt over in the right lane, stat, and stay over there if you're not up to "changing lanes"! The official PDXradio driving instructor will back me up on this! )

Speed limit +9. Unless you are in a redneck podunk town or a school zone or a double fine zone, you can generally get away with that.

Makes a huge time difference on a long trip.

Don't let them fool you by telling you that it's all about safety. The only thing it's about is how much money can they extract from you.

$$$$$'s that's all! Feed the coffers!

"Feed the coffers!"

Better that the Escalade Snobs behind their Midnight Black Tints and the Tuned-to-the-hilt Honda Freaks pay the coffers than I.

No tickets since 1989 says +8 is the safe bet!

Seems more people are interested in talking about speeding rather than "LARS"....hmmmmm....go figure!

Speed limit plus 8 or 9 has worked for me. No speeding tickets since 1986.

Other tricks of the trade:

Don't change lanes too much. Blend in.

Plan your passes. Look ahead on the freeway. Anticipate, anticipate.

Near known cop hangouts- overpasses, blind curves, parked cars on the side of the freeway- try and find a semi truck to cruise beside as a shield.

If you see a cop who has pulled someone over, he's busy! Its time to boom and zoom! (Caveat- KNOW your freeways. Sometimes cops do the wolfpack on a stretch of freeway- several cops waiting at one spot to pick off the speeders one at a time)(Another example- I-84 east of 181st- cops LOVE to hang out on top of the on ramps with the radar pointed at YOU. Can't see 'em until its too late. Also- hiding behind the middle concrete barrier, pointing at cars coming from the other direction)

Not all cop cars are Crown Vics. BEWARE of vehicles parked on the side of the freeway.

Save yourself a ticket: NEVER speed on local streets. Too many places for cops to hide.

If you miss a cop on the freeway and pass by going too fast- DON'T brake to slow down. Your brake lights are a giveaway if you're not already busted by the radar. Downshift to slow down.

STAY OFF OF YOUR CELL PHONE! STAY ALERT! Expect the unexpected from every other vehicle.

If the worst happens and you get pulled over, don't say ANYTHING to the cop when he says "do you know how fast you were going". Be very polite. (They wear guns. Doh.) Suck up. Don't lie. But don't blab about how fast you know you were going.

If you can, go to court. ON the slim chance the cop doesn't appear, you win. If he does appear, maybe the judge will reduce your fine.

Again, don't lie. (Don't say you were speeding because you had to rush home to prevent your friend from committing suicide because he never got to be a banker).

Besides, win or lose, have a nice story to tell to your friends either way.

http://www.speedtrap.org/speedtraps/stetlist.asp

Hah I love how they have "Interstate 5 from Ritzville to Kittitas County" under Washington.

Whoever posted that shouldn't be driving. Interstate 5 comes nowhere near Ritzville, OR Kittitas County.

Great job reading those road signs! hah

That's I-90 isn't it?

"Sorry, but the facts will never support the contention that slow drivers are more dangerous than speeding drivers."

Ed- Dangerous to whom? The facts indicate that fast drivers tend to have 1-car accidents (i.e. lose control, drive off the road), while slow (i.e. BAD) drivers tend to cause multi-car accidents.

If I can pass you on the right, that means YOU are in the WRONG LANE.

Too bad nobody gives a damn enough about road safety to drive in the correct lane.

I run a Valentine One in my car, and drive somewhere between 5 and 15 over, depending on various factors. I've been lasered on numerous occasions doing better than 10+, and I haven't been pulled over in the 6.5 years I've had the car.

The freeways (excepting Terwilliger curves and the like) were designed for 70 MPH in a 1950's-era land yacht. It seems to me that nearly every car on the road today, regardless of condition, handles better than that.

"If I can pass you on the right, that means YOU are in the WRONG LANE."

If YOU pass a car in the right lane, YOU are in the wrong lane as well.

Not necessarily, If I am in the left lane, doing a reasonable speed, and am passing folks in the right lane, and you come zooming by, switching lanes, well above the posted speed limit, you are in the wrong!

if you're passing "folks" in the right lane, you're driving on a sidewalk.

Why do they call it " The Banfield "?

"'Sorry, but the facts will never support the contention that slow drivers are more dangerous than speeding drivers.'"

"Ed- Dangerous to whom? The facts indicate that fast drivers tend to have 1-car accidents (i.e. lose control, drive off the road), while slow (i.e. BAD) drivers tend to cause multi-car accidents."

Tadc: We need to dissect the information here a bit.

First, realize that all cars go "slow" (from zero up to the speed limit) at some point, but not all cars - and I would argue much less than half - go "fast" (above the speed limit) in an average day. This creates a much greater number of slow car "occurrences" per day than fast car "occurrences". So statistically, there will be many more slow car accidents than fast car accidents.

Secondly, we need to clarify "dangerous" not simply as an accident, which could be as minor as a parking lot crunch. When I said Speed Kills I meant KILLS. If you are going to get injured or die in an accident, the odds increase with speed. I always tell my driver's ed. students that their car is expendible - manufacturers finally realized this and added crumple zones, etc. to let the car take the energy of the accident. An older car (like my '58 Edsel) is going to take less damage in a 15mph impact than a 2007 Honda will, but the Edsel is more dangerous precisely because it is built like a tank - the energy of impact gets transferred to the occupants. The Honda takes the hit for the passenger and incurs more damage.

Anyway, to summarize: Slow vehicle accidents will always outnumber fast vehicle accidents because 100% of vehicles go slow at some point, and fast vehicle accidents are the ones you are much more likely to die or be injured in.

CJ:

The Banfield Freeway was named for Thomas Harry Banfield, Chairman of the Oregon Transportation Commission from March 16, 1943-March 31,1950.

Bonus Facts: The straight stretch of I-5 from the Fremont Bridge to Delta Park is called the Minnesota Freeway, since it lays atop what once was Minnesota Avenue.

I-405: Stadium Freeway

I-205: East Portland Freeway

I-5 from Portland to Salem: Baldock Freeway

Okie- If you are in the left lane and I can pass you on the right without making an illegal lane change, then you are not "passing", you are cruising, and in the wrong lane.

"Passing" does not include "there's another car 1/2 mile up and I don't feel like changing lanes twice".

Ed: I'm not arguing your statistics... my point is that as a "safe" driver (and I believe my record proves the safety of my driving, regardless of what one may think about speeding), I'm far more concerned about slow/bad drivers getting in an accident with me than I am about losing control and falling off the road. Further, if I DO get in an accident due to speed, it's likely to be only me who suffers the consequences... therefore it should be my choice to make.

If a person has poor driving skills, the solution is not to ask them to slow down, the solution is to put them on the bus. I believe that it's FAR too easy to get a license in this country, and as a result we end up trying to make the roads idiot-proof. Unfortunately, that's an impossible task.

What kill's me is when I coming up behind a car in the left lane on a three lane freeway that is exactly or 1 mile less than posted. I can see a long way back that he is not looking to get over so rather than run up on him I move into the open center lane and just as I get close he lane change's in front of me. That really piss's me off but I just make another lane change and go around. People do not care about taking away someone else's stopping distance and will merge in front of you but then get all pissy when they get the same done to them. As I said in a different thread....KARMA Baby.....good Karma. What you do to others expect it to come back to you double! Assholes tend to attract other Assholes on the freeway's these day's, they drive around in "ASS PACKS"! When I see a problem brewing, which is at least daily given the distance I drive to and fro, I will ease off and give them plenty of room to be DORK's with! Had that pay off big a couple of times, saved me from being in a bad wreck once, and once is huge as far as i'm concerned! The law is really quite simple......"Slower Traffic Keep Right"! Even though you may be going the speed limit you can still be ticketed for impedeing traffic if you have enough car's piled up behind you. Those "Lane Monitor's" were probably "Hall Monitor's" in school who got their jollies from Narking on you and now feel the need to play freeway monitor and get their jollies that way!

There is such a thing as reverse road rage ya know. If you purposely impede a driver's progress that is road rage as well! If you are going the same speed in the left lane as the other lanes with cars behind you wanting to go faster you either need to slow down or speed up and surrender that lane to faster moving traffic! To simply hang there out of spite of the guy tailgateing you is road rage just he same!

From the Oregon DMV manual

Passing on the Right
You may pass on the right only when:
• There is room ahead on the road;
• Your lane or pavement is wide enough for two lanes of traffic going
the same direction; and,
• The driver you are passing is making or has signaled for a left turn.
You may not pass on the right if any part of your vehicle will be off
the paved part of the highway or into a bike lane. A vehicle may not drive
in the bicycle lane to pass on the right. Use extra care when you pass on
the right. Other drivers do not expect to be passed on the right.

DT, this is also from the manual
Slower Traffic Keep Right refers to cars going less than the posted speed limit and does not give carte blanche rights to speeders in the left lanes.

Slow Drivers
When you drive slower than the normal speed of traffic, you must use
the right lane or drive as closely as possible to the right curb or edge of
the road, unless you are getting ready to make a left turn.
Watch for congestion behind you if you drive slower than the
designated speed. Pull off the road at the first area safe to turn out and
let the traffic behind you pass. The overtaking driver must obey the
speed law.

Section 4 is of particular interest. No mention given for posted speed.

RCW 46.61.100
Keep right except when passing, etc.


*** CHANGE IN 2007 *** (SEE 5078-S.SL) ***

(1) Upon all roadways of sufficient width a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:

(a) When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction under the rules governing such movement;

(b) When an obstruction exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the highway; provided, any person so doing shall yield the right of way to all vehicles traveling in the proper direction upon the unobstructed portion of the highway within such distance as to constitute an immediate hazard;

(c) Upon a roadway divided into three marked lanes and providing for two-way movement traffic under the rules applicable thereon; or

(d) Upon a street or highway restricted to one-way traffic.

(2) Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow, (c) when moving left to allow traffic to merge, or (d) when preparing for a left turn at an intersection, exit, or into a private road or driveway when such left turn is legally permitted. On any such roadway, a vehicle or combination over ten thousand pounds shall be driven only in the right-hand lane except under the conditions enumerated in (a) through (d) of this subsection.

(3) No vehicle towing a trailer or no vehicle or combination over ten thousand pounds may be driven in the left-hand lane of a limited access roadway having three or more lanes for traffic moving in one direction except when preparing for a left turn at an intersection, exit, or into a private road or driveway when a left turn is legally permitted. This subsection does not apply to a vehicle using a high-occupancy vehicle lane. A high-occupancy vehicle lane is not considered the left-hand lane of a roadway. The department of transportation, in consultation with the Washington state patrol, shall adopt rules specifying (a) those circumstances where it is permissible for other vehicles to use the left lane in case of emergency or to facilitate the orderly flow of traffic, and (b) those segments of limited access roadway to be exempt from this subsection due to the operational characteristics of the roadway.

(4) It is a traffic infraction to drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of other traffic.

(5) Upon any roadway having four or more lanes for moving traffic and providing for two-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall not be driven to the left of the center line of the roadway except when authorized by official traffic control devices designating certain lanes to the left side of the center of the roadway for use by traffic not otherwise permitted to use such lanes, or except as permitted under subsection (1)(b) of this section. However, this subsection shall not be construed as prohibiting the crossing of the center line in making a left turn into or from an alley, private road or driveway.


[1997 c 253 § 1; 1986 c 93 § 2; 1972 ex.s. c 33 § 1; 1969 ex.s. c 281 § 46; 1967 ex.s. c 145 § 58; 1965 ex.s. c 155 § 15.]


Notes:
Rules of court: Monetary penalty schedule -- IRLJ 6.2.

Legislative intent -- 1986 c 93: "It is the intent of the legislature, in this 1985 [1986] amendment of RCW 46.61.100, that the left-hand lane on any state highway with two or more lanes in the same direction be used primarily as a passing lane." [1986 c 93 § 1.]


Information on proper use of left-hand lane: RCW 28A.220.050, 46.20.095, 46.82.430, 47.36.260.



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The drivers manula may say one thing but the law if what the law states so you need to be familiar with them as well.

For instance. Did you know that in Oregon merging traffic has the right of way and in Washington thru traffic has the right of way. People need to also be aware of differing laws between states, ignorance is not defensable.

Heres the link but you'll have to copy and paste it.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.100

"...if I DO get in an accident due to speed, it's likely to be only me who suffers the consequences... therefore it should be my choice to make."

I have this same argument with teenagers who feel that if they street race they are the only ones who will "suffer the consequences". Okay, let's assume that you are driving fast and you get involved in a serious one-car accident. What about...

- the damage you do to other's property?

- your passengers?

- pedestrians or other bystanders who might be hit?

- good samaritans or emergency crews who might risk their lives to assist you?

- immediate family that need to deal with your death?

- immediate family members who have to provide lifelong care of you are crippled or brain damaged?

You are *never* the only one to suffer consequences. Any driving habit that increases the risk of serious injury should be avoided, and speeding does exactly that. No amount of rationalization will change the physics of an automobile crash.

I am not talking about reckless speeding, hell sometimes it is a fight just to do the speed limit with all on the left hand lane monitors these days. My point simply is don't hang in the left lane especially if you are holding up traffic no matter your speed. The law says, which I alwas do, get over and yield to the faster moving flow of traffic. Reckless and careless speeding are a lot different than just 5 or 6 over posted. There is no reason to hang in the left lane on a two or three lane if the other lanes are open. The law above says that specifically and should be taught to new drivers. We are not the police and it is not our duty to try and slow speeding drivers down. Doing so will only result in aggressive driving and road rage. Why push the issue when you can just get out of the way. There will be a police car in their future someday so leave it to the authorities to enforce the rules of the road and just practice safe and sane driving as best you can!