"Can Sony Make HD Radio A Winner?"

"Question: when was the last time you spent $200 for a table-top clock radio? What locale will have to freeze over before you pay it now? Can you think of 20 AM and 20 FM stations you'd like to store in its memory? Or any memory? Your memory? Are there 20 AM and FM stations in the entire nation worth storing in memory. Hey, the input jack is neat... Sony is crazy and the radio industry is crazier to think this is going to help their HD problem. Hello! There's no good programming on HD. Hell, there's no programming -- forget good."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-sony-make-hd-radio-winner.html

Jerry, you really crack-me-up ! HD Radio is a farce !

If I want better quality sound I just hook my Zune up to the car stereo. Why should I buy a different unit with less selection than I already have? Are there even any live people on HD radio programs or does "OTTO" run it full time?

Yeah, I dunno about HD. The old adage about "polisihing a turd" comes to mind.

Just because the corporate garbage sounds clearer doesn't change the fact that it's corporate garbage.

PocketPool is back!

(Probably after being kicked off 49 other boards.)

Introduce yourself. What kind of radio and music do YOU like to listen to, Pocket?

HEEEEEEEEEEE'S BAAAAAAAAAAACK

Oy.

The anti HD copy and paster returns.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

Mrs_merkin and Notalent,

Yup, I'm back ! I listen to WLW's Scott Sloan 9 PM, WLW's Truckers' Network 12 AM (syndicated) and WLW's Red's baseball. Also, WABC's Saturday Night Oldies and the Cubs on WBBM, all from Maryland. What about you, Mrs_merkin ? Yea, I got kicked of the HD Radio shill sites, AVS Forum and Radio-Insight, and a few times off Radio-Info, but have been back for a while. You should take a look ar AVS and Radio-Insight - they have Master Theseus, a Sangean representative, that doesn't even have a mastery of the English language; basically, he is begging people to buy HD radios. At least, conversions to HD are slowing and consumers show about as much interest in HD/IBOC, as AM Stereo, FMeXtra, and DAB in the UK and Canada.

The only way the lipstick on this pig will take off is if auto-makers and other mainstream stereo producers start including HD as standard in their radios.

Shane,

I can't image that HD Radio would ever be "standard" equipment - right now, it is relegated to "optional" equipment on the "deluxe" models of the failing Hyundai and Jaguar models. I'm sure, not many BMW owners are spending $500 for defective HD radios. The Big 3 have rejected HD Radio:

“U.S. automakers not jumping into HD Radio”

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN2632750220070427?pageNumber=1

Damned, if I am not going to do everything to help put an end to AM-HD, before it puts an end to AM DX'ing !

I'm curious why you are so strongly opposed to it?

I mean, I have no dog in this fight, we have Sirius in one car, and I don't know much (ok, anything) about HD radio or really care, but I'm curious why it's got your undies in such a bundle. Enlighten me! Is it the devil, or what?

I suspect his beef is with AM-HD(as relates to DXing), and I have to say I agree with that one.

Why he's against FM HD, I can only guess it's because they come as a package.

Mrs_merkin and Tadc,

Yes, AM-HD may affect DX'ing severely, which has been a hobby for 40 years, along with SWL. All DX'ers care about is AM-HD, but Tadc is correct in that the whole "package" must fail. Actually, it has been enlightening and amusing posting to HD Radio articles and blogs and emailing HD Radio links to HD Radio reporters. This is just another "hobby", in spare time. Besides, the FCC just gave our free airways over to the iBiquity thugs, but the marketplace is to determine the fate of HD Radio, so it isn't a done-deal. Believe me, I am not the only AM DX'er actively engaged.

notalent,

I saw your message on radio-info - stalking users on that board will get you kicked off, but it won't stop me from posting.

Troll alert.

Please dont feed the troll.

Why should people pay the money for an HD radio. Can't you get the same quality of programming with a loaded IPOD and the IPOD is not tied to a car. I'd like to see you strap your "Lincoln Navigator" to your arm and go for a jog! Is there any live air talent on HD program's or just the "OTTO Shuffle"? I wonder how long before or "IF" they will come out with HD radio accessories for IPOD's? I don't know why they think "Hard Drive radio will be a hit over free radio! If I were to spend any money at all i'd go XM with it's comedy, sports, and immensley larger selection of program's to chose from!

What if one of the new formats includes some more depth in a genre you like, or perhaps works to mix in some new stuff that you have a high chance of likeing, or perhaps adds value with news, trivia, etc... that's relevant to said genre?

All of those reasons are solid where an HD radio purchase is concerned. The new sub-channels on FM, mean more choices and ideally some new creative efforts on the dial.

Maybe talk is appealing. That format is gonna grow huge over the next 5 years, IMHO. It's relevant, new daily, entertaining, etc...

As more people go for their pods, radio will eventually evolve new and compelling productions to maintain enough mindshare to be viable.

(it's that or just shut it all down and that's just not gonna happen)

If all you really want is music, then perhaps you are not such a great radio consumer going forward.

If you want some kind of daily connection, people to entertain, new music, news, etc... radio will have something for you. Given that's the case, and HD radio will improve on the number of choices, and therefore your chances of being satisfied with the purchase.

Those are just reasons, not really aimed at you, but rather just answering the question.

All of the technical stuff is largely debated, the HD is here and either the content that appears on it is compelling and relevant on a near daily basis, or it isn't. If it is, HD will make a difference and be viable no matter what technical merits it has. If not, it won't.

Interestingly, if you wouldn't buy an HD radio, it's highly likely you really don't care about radio that much. Going forward, this will be the case for a growing number of people.

(Setting aside us more technical and focused listeners and insiders. Our objections are not the norm.)

By way of example, I've got technical issues with the AM HD, but it's been hashed out and the FM HD is starting to show signs of cool, new and interesting things happening. In the end, no amount of the bitching and spamming, as demonstrated above, will impact things now. Each of us will ask your question and decide, largely on a content basis, if the HD is worth it.

Up to radio now. Either enough value add is there, or it isn't. The ROI all depends on that.

As far as I am concerned, it's a win-win. If the content issues resolve, I get better radio! If they don't, the "I told you so" post mortem will be just as entertaining, and will likely trigger the content change anyway to preserve what's left.

Bumps in the road aside, this investment means radio will improve period, leaving little reason for all the mess seen here as of late.

OK....great arguements but from my "Consumer, Listener side of one who likes and appreciates live talent on air" My GMC has a Bose system that is very tightly integrated with lots of other things in the vehicle. The door chimes, Onstar, XM, etc. and not to mention it has far superior sound to aftermarket add-in stereos...you cant beat the Bass in a Bose system and also the double din size make it very unappealing to make the switch. Given the fact that I already have the equipment for XM although not subscribed to why would I want to invest the time and effort and de-value my vehicle with a different stereo? Don't XM offer a wider variety of programming than HD and no need to seek stations as I am traveling as they are always there. Wouldn't HD radio be just as sucky when you are traveling and there are no HD programs you like or can even find. I don't imagine every little berg in Oregon will go HD! So again I ask, why would I want something only slightly better than terrestrial radio, which is still a terrestrial signal, when I have the Sat equipment already there. I will stay loyal with my current terrestrial station of choice but once that loses favor with me I will go satellite.

HD seems to be a niche programming option and nothing more. More choices, but really nothing more than to allow for non mainstream programming. The questions are how does it increase the revenue stream and, what is it offering to make John Q. Listener want to make the investment? Seems like another advancement along the lines of AM stereo....

An HD station in(I believe)Washington DC has gone to an all unsigned artists format.

If anyone is interested in HD Radio, just listen on the Web for free - no need to buy expensive, ugly, klunky, defective HD radios that require mounting AM-loop and external FM-dipole antennas:

http://www.clearchannelmusic.com/hdradio/

Wait, until Mobile Pandora and Slacker "personalized" music services take over - HD Radio hasn't a chance !

the web streams of HD channels do not represent the actual on air quality of the HD over the air stations... They are only meant to be a representation of the content. different processing etc.

The radio that will survive longer term will be radio, powered by people making connections with other people. How those connections can be made has been hashed out here many times, so I'm not gonna write about that.

Pandora is just a computer doing shuffles. They are really --scary great shuffles, but shuffles all the same.

Expanding on this with more niche services will satisfy some more listeners, but really it's daily relevance that will make or break radio. Pandora, Slacker and other services that perform in like fashion have nothing on radio that has daily relevance.

Talk, good DJ's who interleave daily material in with the tunes, etc... are a different value proposition than these services are.

Interestingly, this has nothing to do with HD radio. It's either a radio growth thing, or not. HD on FM simply provides the room to grow into. On AM, many suggest it's there to make music more viable, but it might just really increase the appeal of talk for all we know.

Let me put it another way. If services, like you mention take over, then radio as a whole is finished, HD or not.

My favorite station here, KNRK has lots of daily relevance. The people driving the station communicate on several levels: IM, e-mail and via the actual audio channel they happen to be on. I like them and a high percentage of the music they play. I know something about them, and the (few) times I called, interacted in friendly and sometimes interesting ways.

That station has added an all northwest artists option on their HD2, and will soon begin streaming it for both analog and digital listeners to sample. They will also be doing teasers on their main audio channel to incorporate some of their daily relevance so as to help introduce people to the stream and provide a means for feedback.

In a nutshell, they are closing the loop between listener and station staff and that's how HD is done right going forward. Frankly, it's how radio is done right going forward. Daily relevance.

Know it, understand it, then come back and talk about the death of HD.

BTW; The loop is open with Pandora. I've used the service, it's cool and all of that, however it has one problem; namely,

say the magic voodoo powered computers powering Pandora play an excellent set of music. They just nail the mood of the day, express something profound, or maybe just happen to sound really good together.

Who exactly do I share that with? What mind do I give that credit to? Who crafted that experience for me?

Again, get back to me on that issue before you go off and claim the death of HD from these kinds of services.

I would be more worried about daily podcasters, who can deliver that daily relevance every day, or the guy doing the new music show that really adds a lot of value, as in great selection, background on the artists, etc...

That could very well exist on a pod device, be queued in the early hours and consumed during the day, thus delivering an experience not unlike a great VT radio production, without the actual radio!

And if I had such talent, I would be producing those shows right now and making distribution deals right and left.

That might impact HD -- and radio, but Pandora isn't.

In and of itself, HD is just an enabling technology. It's not a means toward an end, despite the Ibiquity claims early on. It adds to the potential choice, brings new format options, station identities, etc... Lots of options there, but all of which will require people working to deliver that daily relevance or it means nothing.

HD Radio is still Terrestrial and local. When you travel you lose your programs and must then search for more. And inbetween major cities it is more than likely still std AM/FM. My point was why should I buy into that versus XM satellite were my station stays with me wherever I go? If I make any change over my Terrestrial FM non-HD radio preference then it will be to go XM.....not HD! I'm pretty sure that for local news and information i'll always have some AM station available to me!

Totally valid. I'm trying to sell you on HD. You have to do that, or not, but it's got little to do with the other crap, which I should have made more clear.

Sat is cool, if you travel a lot --very cool, if your programs are on it. No looking, etc...

Oh yeah Pocket, case in point:

Why do you think the Sat companies paid out their ass for Stern? Daily relevance baby.

It matters more than any automated shuffle ever will, and that's all Pandora, etc... are.

At the rate they're going, there won't be ANY serious attempts at AM radio in a few years because the 25-54 listenership is dwindling and not being replaced by other 25-54s! It will probably still exist in small towns but that's about it. I don't see buying a radio as buying into something as much as is making monthly payments forever!

Until it is std. equipment on all cars HD will not do well. Joe average consumer is not going to rush out and pay for something they already have for free! Rather I suspect that most if not happy with FM that they would indeed turn to IPOD or other mobile music devices.

I axed a question a while back and will repeat it.
I do not have HD and would like to know about the Portland HD channels. Do they feature live on-air talent or just like it says HD-HardDrive OTTO-Jock?

As i said once or twice before.. HD radio is in its infancy. It is developing right now which means it is NOT fully developed to its potential.

Stations had to be built so that manufactures of radios would start production.

Once Transmitters and Recievers have been built the bugs start getting worked out... Which is about where we are now.

Up to this point HD-2 stations have automated programming that specifically does not duplicate anything avalable on regular FM.

HD -1 stations are a digital version of the regular FM the purpose of which is to extend the HF spectrum and eliminate multipath problems.

Again, HD radio is in its INFANCY, just being born. As more potential listeners check it out broadcasters will begin to innovate.

We are presently at the early adaptor phase of this technology.

Any reports of the death of HD are premature and exagerated.

To answer your question Darktemper... Half of the HD stations in portland have air talent because they are duplicates of existing stations. The HD 2 stations are presently automated but locally programmed. Satellite programming is not allowed on HD2 stations at this point.

Good Information. But man...I already done raised three kids......I don't wanna do that anymore. I'm not one to chase emerging techno anymore. I like to get comfortable with a favorite and stick with it so I guess when it lands in my lap via factory equipment in a new car then i'll have a look see. Or maybe if they come out with portable HD players like the Sirius Stiletto or the XM Samsung Helix™ then i'd consider that. I was just talking with someone this morning about sat radio and that even though my rig has the stuff built in i'd probably still get a portable unit so I could enjoy it in the house or anywhere I go rather than having it anchored into heavy Detroit Steel! I can just plug it into the aux-port I had hard-wired into my stereo system.

Hmmmm....The Visteon HD Jump looks kind of interesting. I'm gonna check out portable HD options and see whats out there.

http://www.evisteon.com/prod_serv/mobile_electronics/products/hd_jump/index.shtm l

Thats all fine dark, but keep in mind that portable sat devices are not receivers. they are hard drives which download from the sat and then replay the content later. they do not as far as i know have LIVE hand held portable sat radio receivers at this time.

Ummmmmmm

"HD Jump is the premier transportable HD Radio receiver available in the market today."

Right from that link man!

And if you were referring to XM or Sirius portables they are both live!

Samsung Helix

Introducing the next generation of XM2go. A live portable satellite radio and MP3 player in one. Only from XM.

Audio books now available for purchase and download from Audible for the Helix.

Live XM When Portable or Docked

HD tech isn't expensive (on the receiver end anyway). Soon enough it will be a "throw-in" just like MP3-capable CD car units are currently becoming.

As for DXing, it's a fun hobby, but it's already been degraded by band overcrowding, and it's not nearly as fun as it used to be now that it's devolved into mostly "23 different stations running Art Bell".

I do hope that they never approve nighttime AM-HD though. That would be a cluster-F of ungodly proportions.

In the mid 1980s, AM Stereo was standard in some vehicles. Specifically, I remember that all of the sound systems for the 1986 Dodge Caravan, other than the AM only radio, had AM Stereo in addition to FM Stereo. From that data point, it seems that if HD is to catch on, first it has to be made available as a standard option in auto sound systems. Then, the public interest and demand for the technology has to be sustained for several years, which did not happen with AM Stereo. Furthermore, the technology has to be made available in home and portable radios, which largely did not happen with AM Stereo.

At this point, any prognostication about the future success of HD is going to sound like a weather forecast that reads, "Cold or hot. Chance of a shower or not."

Having said that, a concern that I have if HD should catch on is that having additional sub-channels to program will lead broadcasters to further cut the costs associated with generating programs. Thus, there will be more jukebox stations with poorer-quality production and execution. I think that if they were smart, down the road, the conglomerates might program their sub channels to be like satellite radio. I know that this may sound like heresy to some; however, the idea that I am putting forth here is to strike a balance between having something that sounds more compelling and professional that a computer jukebox and not spending a lot of money (on a conglomerate-wide scale) to create said programming.

Sadly, with the current industry thinking, I don't think that there is anything that can compel the broadcast industry to go back to creating programming that is more capital and labor intensive to produce.

You know the thing that bothers me the most is will the onset of HD radio enhance the need for live air talent or diminish that profession ever further. I would not support it if it did indeed cost people jobs down the road. However if by supporting it, it creates more opportunities for live air talent to prosper then i'd jump on the band wagon and support it! What are your predictions for live air talent when HD is up to speed?

I think that a safe prediction is that the employment levels for air talent will stay about the same. Perhaps, some more opportunities will be created in production/voice talent work.

It's been 6 or 8 months since i looked at portable satellite gear, time to look again!

back then all they had at Car Toys was the non live type portable.

Nighttime AM HD has been approved and will take effect 30 days after the information is printed in the Federal Register. The latter hasn't occurred yet but should any day now. I'm watching it carefully. I expect stations that have no changes to make to go on right away, probably sometime in July. KKPZ 1330 is an example of a station with the same day and night pattern. All they should need to do is not turn off the HD.

And finally, we get to see if Leonard was right or not. Either it propagates well, or it does not.

If it actually does, DX'ing it could be an interesting challenge!