Every time I turn on the news or open the local paper I continue to read about random attacks on random people.
You all heard the story about the woman shopping at the Beaverton Fred Meyers who was hit in the back of the head with a hammer, by some random person walking by. The odd thing is, after he hit the woman in the back of the head with the hammer, he took out a shopping cart and started shopping.

Or what about the woman who was 7 months pregnant, walking out of an arbys in SE Portland and was punched in the stomach HARD by some random person.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE TODAY, SERIOUSLY!

IF you were the husband/boyfriend of the woman who was hit in the back of the head by some random person with a hammer, what have you done???????

Run after him and beat the shit out of him????

mentally ill people used to be in mental hospitals in the old days.

what do you suggest we do about the mentally ill? are you prepared to open your pocketbook for that?

what would you have done???????

You ever see the movie "Sin City"....you know the part were Bruce Willis pounds that freaks head into a pile of yellow goo......that'd be me....pounding that freaks head into a pile of goo! Hit me and whatever....mess with the wife and kids WATCH OUT! I joke about my "Darktemper" but unless you wanna see just how Dark it can get I suggest you not mess with the family!

Comprendo

Let's open this up a bit.

You can thank good old Ronald Reagan for much of this. He closed down (or his policies did) a lot of mental health facilities, under his whole "less government" "let the private sector handle things" philosophy. Those folks now are handled by either the criminal system, which is overloaded (funny thing), or just live on the streets. Working downtown PDX, I see them every day, more and more. Mentally and physically disabled folks are everywhere.

Yeah, Reagan, a great President. We are still recovering from some of his stuff.

No, the warren court, ruled people couldnt be institutionalized, without their consent.

Looking back at the Cho Virginia Tech shooting incident, I remember that one of the issues there was that Cho's mental condition couldn't be diagnosed correctly because he hadn't done anything up until that point that would have legally forced him to be put in a psychiatric facility. Is it at all possible to separate out the mentally ill who are on the streets because a "state" hospital was shut down from those who are "under the radar" and wouldn't get admitted to psychiatric facilities even if there were plenty of state hospitals available? Is it known whether the hammer guy and the belly punching guy were previously in psychiatric facilities or whether they had done anything up until that point that would have gotten them admitted?

Okie- If you believe that, you're being willfully ignorant of the facts. Plenty of mentally ill people know they need help. Or even if they don't admit it, they'd be willing to play along to trade sleeping in a doorway for a bed.

Completely irrelevant, however, when there are no beds available due to lack of funding (thanks to Reagan).

Reagan, when first elected president, asked where the War Room was. (Referring to the war room in the movie "Dr Strangelove"). Reagan was probably disappointed that it didn't exist. Anyway, this ignorant president affected the MI in a major non-positive way.

You seem to have done allright.

Skeps just got his panties in a bunch over Reagan because he stood up to the unions.

while many mentally ill persons, recognize that fact, and are greatful for treatment, unfortunatly, there are some, that after being on treatment for a few weeks, consider themselves cured, and quit taking their medications, those are the ones that need to be incarcarated.

I find sometimes a mentally ill person is actually far more sane than any supposed "Sane" person. I mean think about it. Some dude or dudette sitting in a chair slowing rocking back and forth and humming to themselves. Then theres the sane ones, getting out of bed every day and off to work that they hate, road raging all the way there and home again, after a crappy day at work we arrive at home for another full round of problems with kids, relatives, SO's, and then we eventually get to go to sleep. And then we wake up and do it all over again in hopes that tomorrow will somehow magically be better and it never is!
Now who's the more sane person in this picture story?

Its quite ironic how after Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers, the scabs that replaced them later voted to organize themselves! Yep, Reagan's hand-picked scabs unionized themselves! Nancy was off quite a bit with her horoscope interpretation the day Reagan made that decision!

Reagan's image has improved just a bit these days since George W Bush took the WPE throne.

The ones he fired, were organized, but like all govt workers in essential jobs, had signed pledges not to strike, or otherwise participate in work stoppages.

The lied, and walked off the job, despite their pledges not to.

reagan's hand-picked scabs later organized themselves -- yes or no?


If your employer took a poop in your workplace, even you would consider walking off the job. Reagan's poop musta stunk something awful if the scabs decided they had to become unionized.

You union guys are so cool. I just love it when you talk that way.

Just about all govt employees are unionized, the Air traffic controllers decided to blackmail the govt, they thought they were too important, and could break the law, and their word.

So they were toast.

"reagan's hand-picked scabs"

LOL!!

Available now on Ebay!

nwokie, you didn't answer the question. Did reagan's hand-picked scabs unionize themselves? yes or no.

What isn't available on Ebay?

they wern't hand picked, so the answer is no, they were civil service selectees.

Many were former military controllers, but President Reagon had no part in their selection, and they wern't scabs, there was no picket line to cross, the controllers were not fired for union activity, but for violating their oath of office.

>>>What isn't available on Ebay?"

"reagan's hand-picked scabs"

It looks like nwokie was the winner of that eBay auction. Buying up scabs and living in denial is a rather unusal lifestyle choice, but hey, this is the USA, I'd never take away your right to choose.

You know...

Any more it's not the mentally ill lurking the streets ya need to worry about. It's those of us....I mean those who are mentally ill lurking behind your computer screens...HA...made ya look!

Gotta go and take my little Blue pill now....BBL

Deane_johnson:

"reagan's hand-picked scabs"




Oh no, I saw those just the other day.

Is Mentally Ill, Kim Jong Il's brother?


As much as I'd like to claim that, I have to attribute it to David Letterman.

Blue pill...

Ahh, the Watson 10/500. Enjoy that bugger, but be sure to taper down before it's all over.

I keep having paranoid dillusions that my body is covered with scabs and I can't get rid of them fast enough!

What's really funny though about the original ATC controllers that Reagan fired was that they were by and large mostly ex-military old fat white guys -- Reagan's base.

Heh.

OH GOD, Why do these topics always turn POLITICAL????????
Im going to go slit my wrists.
LATER!

The title of this side of the board is called "POLITICS and other things . . ."

I hope you have insurance when you're taken to the ER, I'd hate to pay for your slit wrist!

Mentally Ill and Politicians are very closely related Beano!

Actually, most wern't ex military, their union had arranged for a age limit of 35, retired military controllers were at leats 38, so they couldnt even be considered fot civilian ATC jobs, President reagon changed that, and let retired military controllers fill the jobs.

"their union had arranged for a age limit of 35"

The union didn't "arrange" anything. the contract was agreeded to by both the federal goverment and the members of the bargaining unit. If the union members and/or the federal govt didn't like the limit they could have voted it down.

by the way, I didn't say RETIRED military controllers, I said "ex-military", people who left the service or didn't re-enlist could use their skills as a civilian ATC.

Active military controllers probably preferred not to give up their positions only to start at the bottom of the seniority list at a civilian ATC center.

All this is water under the bridge since Reagan's "retired military controllers" organized themselves after finding out working for the federal could drive a scab to unionize. Heh.

So, I suppose ur a bit sore about the NASA strike?

Their not NASA workers, their civilian contractors, who have do not have a no strike clause in their contract.

All the ATC controllers unionizing means is that their now covered by the basic govt union contracts, which allows very little bargening rights. From now on overtime is based on senority, you cant discipline a worker without a union rep there. They can only negotiate some working conditions, not pay and benefits.

Bully for them. Unions are great. They make it so difficult to fire a bad employee that some just put up with their poor performance. YAY, just what I want, a controller directing flights in PDX that is a total screw up and is only there because he has not had his fourth final letter of warning after he received his seven verbal warnings! Pay no mind to the fact that he has Dyslexia, he has a disability and that is what got him hired in the first place!

The only purpose unions serve is to protect the incompetent. Excellent performers don't need unions.

You Got That Dead On!

Govt unions have very little control over firing workers, thats close to impossible under general OPM rules.

What they can do, is prevent you from having the best man/woman in a position.

Nearly all, of the National Guard full time technicans are union workers.

They can also make it more difficult to send the proper person to advanced training, the union insists the senior person get first shot at it.

"What they can do, is prevent you from having the best man/woman in a position."

"The only purpose unions serve is to protect the incompetent. Excellent performers don't need unions."

Not so. Take your typical trucker pulling triples on I-5 in oregon (usually teamsters -- UPS, Reddaway, Freddies et al) -- you can pretty much bet this group of drivers are among the safest, most efficient, most drug-free and most highly paid truckers on Oregon's freeways -- no doubt among the best qualified drivers in Oregon.

Don't generalize. If employers were great to employees, we wouldn't need unions.

deane sez: "The only purpose unions serve is to protect the incompetent."

Do unions hire employees or employers hire employees? Stop shifting the blame for deadbeat employees on the unions when it rightly belongs on the human resource dept of the company.

Further, for many, the only TRUE purpose of unions is to provide health and welfare benefits. This is pretty sad commentary on employers in America.

>>>"Do unions hire employees or employers hire employees? Stop shifting the blame for deadbeat employees on the unions when it rightly belongs on the human resource dept of the company."

So then, human resource departments should be able to fire an employee that turns out to be no good, right?

there's usually a probation period one can fire new empoyees at will. if you can't decide if you've hired a deadbeat in 6 months then you deserve each other.

btw, union contracts don't usually protect employees from thief convictions, drug use, violence, insuborbination, non-employment felony convictions, etc.

Skep has it right --as does Deane!

I've worked for great people before. They benefit, I benefit, it all just works. These kinds of people will never have employees who unionize. I've worked for really bad people too. It would happen in a second (unions).

It really is a balance. It's just not fair to make blanket statements on any of the parties. There are good and bad employers, unions, and employees.

One other element to unions and that is some tradespeople are somewhat trapped. Unions can help with this, and provide some infrastructure for bring in new tradespeople where perhaps without it, said skills may not present as well as an investment in ones self.

Sure, somebody will do the work, but it may well be more shoddy overall.

That's not an absolute thing, but is something I've seen first hand that is a positive for unions, that's all.

All in all, I think the pressure of potential unions is a necessary thing in a lot of work environments. If IT people were smart, they would do this.

I remember when a jock named Chuck Dunaway went to WABC in New York. He was appalled that it took 3 or 4 engineers to put his program on the air. One union guy played the music, another the commercials, another turned his mic on. It was sickening. The capper was when he went out and poured himself a cup of coffee. He got written up by the union. Seems some sort of stewards union had to pour the jock his cup of coffee.

Sickening. I don't see how anyone can support this sort of featherbedding.

In civil service its 90 days, after that its very hard to fire someone, and tehy all know it, all someone has to do, is do an adequate job for 90 days, then they've got clear sailing until they retire. and after they receive carreer status, 3 years, they have to commit a major crime to get fired.

I know of a case, where a reserve suervisor (E8) ran a very relaxed shop, so relaxed that people drank on duty, snd he and some of the guys went to stripo joints when on duty.

During a 3 day weekend, one of his troops got drunk, on duty, and hit a tree while riding his motorcycle. The supervisor, and next up supervisor were fired, they appealed, and were reassigned to sack groceries at the commissary, kept the same pay, after about a year and a half, the 2nd level supervisor was reinstated, and the supervisor was reinstated at a non supervisory position.

Sickening? Hardly. WABC agreed to the contract. Its a two way street. Who are you to second guess the terms the two parties agreed in the contract? Perhaps WABC was able to get the union to concede on another matter. Making conclusions without all the facts just shows your anti-union bias.

>>>"shows your anti-union bias."

I'm glad you noticed.

I wish I was biased about our president, but unfortunately facts back me up.

Well, you really are biased --as am I.

The beauty of it, IS THE FACTS BACK US UP!

Having the high ground in that is a double edged sword though. On one hand, the solution is clear:

Don't elect people who think government is the problem. They can't govern because of it. Call it a conflict of interest.

On the other hand, the facts easily support us currently living through the worst President ever --and he was selected and not elected too boot!

Good grief, that sucks.

I wish I were more wrong in this --and that's the rub.

Having just a bias, without such clear supporting information is just a bias. Just isn't the same in that one can be marginalized for having too much bias, without clear support.

I remember when H.W. Bush was president, I didn't particularly like him, and after Reagan, I wouldn't have minded if even Marion Berry was president, but you know, there wasn't a lot of obvious "facts" that I could use to support arguments that the first Bush was such a bad president.

But this one, geez, we'll probably never see the likes of again.

And that can only be a good thing!

Skep - H.W. WASN'T a bad President ... if nothing else, he knew when to stop when fighting against Iraq. The very exact same things that Bush 41 said would happen if we pushed the attack all the way to Baghdad and deposed Saddam have happened under Bush 43's watch.

I wonder if Dubya listened to his father's advice this poorly growing up. Maybe he was just dropped on his head a few too many times as an infant.

Now hold on there....Bush Jr. may be a total screw up but you give Hillary the keys to the Whitehouse again and you'll be wishing he was still there! Hell she already tried to steal the Silver once, just wait until she gets her mitts on whats left of social security and medicare funds or any other funds for that matter! Only BAD can come from putting "THAT" woman in the White House! Please note the use of "THAT"! I would not be opposed to a woman in charge, hell I live it every day, but just not "THAT" woman! If she ever gets elected i'm gonna pack up the camper, grab the compound bow and the rifle with a couple thousand rounds and move up into the backwoods with okie! I'll be the one pulling pranks on the John Links Sasquatch up yonder in them thar hills!

Hah my wife and I were discussing Hillary this morning. She said how Bill was overall a good President and I just reminded here, "Well, she ain't Bill."

Hillary vs. Romney - the two flip-floppers at each other! I can see it now.

But she was the Ventriloquist behind the DUMMY now wasn't she! You know that behind every good man is a woman right? (Although currently you only see Cheney behind George and is it a coincidence that he never drinks water while George is speaking?) You just need to stay away from the women that hover overhead and just like to pull your strings!

I'm perplexed by the feeling that Hillary would steal.. what's behind that?

Especially given the larcenous group that we've got in there right now.

Oh Heck...all politicains are crooks by nature. If the silver and china did not come up missing after her last visit....well things might be different! Maybe she is just a collector or something! When the Lincoln bedroom shows up on Antique Road Show...then you'll see what I mean!

Silver and china missing? huh?

Got any cites for that one? I just spent a half-hour of quality time with Google and I couldn't find any. The best I could do was some missing "W" keys on computer keyboards after the Clintons vacated.

Sorry bout that dude. I just remember hearing bout that long ago and did a quick search myself and this popped up fairly quick:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a850f2246fd.htm

They are not crooks and there stuff was probably packed and moved for them and that stuff was the fault of some other bozo!

Sorry bout the 30 minutes of your life you can't get back. I'll just stick to relevant fact's in future posts, you know, like how she Flip Flops like a Bass on the floor of the boat!

"Missing W Keys"-----LOL