http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell.ap/index.html

To quote the Irish

"May he be half an hour in heaven before the devil knows he's dead."

The devil surely has a place at his table for him

Rev. Falwell is sure to have a lot of jewels in his heavenly crown. He was a giant of faith.

Rest in peace, Rev. Falwell.

Herbert M.

So, when it is time for Pat Robertson to go home?

I know he's needed there far more than he is needed here.

I won't miss Falwell.

Missing- We know these things come in 3's, so there is hope.

The earthly world is a little kinder and gentler place today. Have fun in Hell Jerry!

"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions"

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals"

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda"

"[homosexuals are] brute beasts... part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven."

"The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews."

Hell would be too kind a place for this gentleman.

Other than being a tad liberal for my tastes, Reverend Falwall was a great guy.

Herb

I am not a Falwell fan, but I am not dancing on his grave, either. The Grim Reaper is going to get us all sometime sooner or later.

As much as I would like to celebrate the day that a number of different people die, such as Randy Michaels, Jeff Littlejohn, Benny Hinn, Osama Bin Laden, etc, I will restrain myself because I want to take the classy route.

Falwell liberal?

My God, Herb, how far to the right are you?

Herb either you are smoking your namesake or you are geniunely being sarcastic about that comment.

Well, I'm not going to be a hypocrite....unlike some OTHER people in this discussion. I hated Falwell, simple as that. He was one of the biggest threats to our liberties I've seen in my lifetime. He was a westernized version of the Ayaltollah. Now maybe the other two crackers, Robertson and Dobson will go with him. Put that in you pipe and smoke it Herb.

"My God, Herb, how far to the right are you?"

Let's just say that the views of Phyllis Schlafly are as far left as I normally go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly

http://www.distinguishedwomen.com/biographies/schlafly.html

Herb

Warner: You know it!

Can't wait to see who's up next. I know it's morbid and a little less than kind, but I'm just gonna step up and admit it, like Aok just did. I hate that guy, and I really fricking totally and completely, fully hate Robertson too.

(Hope he's set to go home soon, I really do.)

And Herb, that's really far out there, hard ass right! Lighten up man! I'm serious. Some moderation does us all good. It's easier that way. You might live longer too!

Many years ago, I actually had the chance to hear Phyllis Schlafly in a debate. The subject matter there was chiefly about social issues and not about economics or foreign policy.

According to the Wikipedia article, Schlafly does not agree with the Bush/Neoconservative view of foreign policy. Do you consider this to be a "left" element of Phillis Schlafly? I am not being critical; I am just curious.

To quote the Irish " I'll drink to that."

Phyllis Schlafly: "the atomic bomb is a marvelous gift that was given to our country by a wise God."

Condolences to his family and friends. Thank God he's gone.

Why does the LEFT have so much hate in their hearts? I like to know.

For me it's not a lot of hate. I just really hate these types of people.

Essentially, they think I need to do things their way because they think whatever they believe is the absolute truth, and that they know better than I do, how to run my life.

It isn't, I don't have to, and they don't know better and I hate being forced to do stuff without solid justification for it. Where Robertson is concerned, he's hosing up a lot of people and spending a ton of money trying to run my life his way. Sorry, but you just gotta hate that.

That's it in a nutshell. If they stop it, I quit hating it really. Everybody gets a notch happier!

BTW, that's my issue. It's not fair at all to characterize the LEFT, as you put it, based on a coupla posts here. A lot of people, RIGHT and LEFT, do not respond well to this kind of shit.

Hate is not a partisan thing, particularly where these types are concerned. We really don't need them, generally speaking, that means it's more than time for them to go home.

Besides, I can get all their stuff after the rapture!

Please, folks, won't you please find it in your hearts to call right now and make a small love offering to the good reverend? He will include your name and the names of your loved ones in a very personal message when he gets past the pearly gates and meets his maker. Please help send him there in the style he's been accustomed to for all these years, thanks to your loving monthly automatic withdrawals, there's no need to stop giving now...

And you know people are doing it too!

Oops, I mean sheeple.

Sorry.

With any luck Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton will be next.

Or is that a wrong way of thinking around here since they are Democrats?

If you can't sort that out, I'm afraid there is just no help.

Have fun with that!

"Why does the LEFT have so much hate in their hearts? I like to know."

Excuse the bumper-sticker speak - but - You reap what you sow.

Sad, you would think that despite having different views on basically everything that 99% of the people here have that people wouldnt celebrate a mans death.

I mean hell, its not like he is Hitler. Just a very religous man that seems to scare the hell out of Liberals.


I do not like the guy, having been a loyal Hustler subscriber for 20 years, but I take no satisfaction in his death.

I do.

Thats your right, but seems awful childish. (Then again I have to remember where I am posting right now.)

Like it was said before, Democrats celebrate will his death and when Sharpton dies then don't go expecting a fond farewell from the right.

Actually, you just made the same mistake DD did.

My posts here are mine, not those of all Democrats, nor those who lean left in general.

They are the posts of one American, who values his freedom, particularly religious freedom, highly enough to feel simple joy at the reality of one big threat to this is now no longer among us.

That's it.

I'm not proud of it, but I am completely willing to be honest about it.

Wow, this thread has indeed brought out a lot of hate and lack of forgiveness to this man. Yes, he spewed hate as well. But, in the end, he was a man of God and should be forgiven for his errors. Am I alone here?

"when Sharpton dies then don't go expecting a fond farewell"

I won't. What makes you think I would? Do you think I am in the minority around here? Or were you just looking to tat against the tit?

maybe just tit...

(yeah, ok I'll sign off now!)

"Am I alone here?"

If I thought he would respond to that just ONE bit, I would have given it back ten fold.

He never deserved it though. Never. Not once. And in case you disagree - name ONE time in which he deserved to be forgiven that he would have accepted it in the spirit meant from me. One.

I dunno, somehow the thought of stringing falwell's testicles to a bumper of a pickup and dragging him around a field in wyoming seems to be the right thing to do to a man who created a great deal of harm and chaos in many Americans.

Sorry Redford...

I feel just a twinge of guilt at that question: "Am I alone here?"

Chickenjuggler has it about right though. If there is some glimmer of hope, even unrealized, there exists some defensible forgiveness. I don't see it in Falwell or Robertson.

It's ugly, but it is what it is. I don't feel good about it, but Aok posted and it all came out. I've no reason to do otherwise and that speaks to where people like this take themselves, more than it speaks to how others react.

Maybe you guys are missing my point...he WAS wrong. But he can still be forgiven.

Redford, no. No way. I don't hate him as much as he hated me. I'm ok with that.

I can name a LOT of dead people who were wrong - the fact that they are dead gives them no extra points just because they are now dead.

Don't make me say the names. You know them.

Nope.

I got it. Feel bad about it, but I'm not ever going to be where he can be forgiven.

Why bother?

He's gone and tipped over, so clearly he's not gonna feel the love, now is he? His family will be surrounded by those that can support them. I don't know them and likely would cause more harm than good, so they are fine too.

That leaves me. Actually it ends up being this way for each of us. What we believe matters, but I think the act of forgiving is as much for us as it is anything.

So, I'll forgive myself for having to even go here, but not that ass for helping it all along. Part of the problem is that I don't think it's been demonstrated that somebody can be so profoundly misinformed as to make his acts an accident that somehow were backed by only the best of intentions.

Nope. Can't buy that. Doing so would put some other elementary things into question that I just don't want to deal with. Better to just assume he was driven by his faith and the need for acceptance of it in order to more fully validate and realize it. It's a selfish thing, and it's caused a lot of harm.

Tomorrow will be a better day, the thearapy having worked it's magic this evening. I'll not think twice about Falwell after that. That brings closure and with it, release and health. Bottled up hate, or hate wrapped in a cloak of forgiveness instead of acceptance and reason does me personally more harm than good.

I know this, so I'll just deal.

The world, to me, is better without him. I can prove it.

I think so too.

Done, next.

We both can feel better about it.

I don't like evangelicals of any kind Falwell and the others mentioned here and elsewhere. My take on this is they have the right to their credo and I have the right not to listen and I don't. I just note this as a milestone or rite of passage of someone who influenced some folks politically and socially maybe. Im not sad nor am I elated he is gone. I just note it for what it is. A spokesman for some folks of the right and of a certain religious view shared by many has passed on. You might look at it as part of our politics and social issues. Wish religion would get out of politics but it's this ilk that stirs it up. Im more saddened when I hear of all the radio people that have gone as well as family friends, and yes people who don't profess a faith but show respect for others more so than any type of preacher.

I am not concerned nor am I interested in where I end up after this life.

With that said,

"Besides, I can get all their stuff after the rapture!"

After getting through half of the "Left Behind" series of novels (Which I loved BTW) I never thought of it that way. LOL! Yes I am admiting that I am a very materielistic person like most of Americans but then again I am making a generalization.

Here is what I dislike/loathe/ about the now late Falwell.

He preached that there were certain Americans were responsible for the deplorable acts of 9/11. But by making the statements he made in the manner in which he made them only proved that he had been Knocked Up and then had his delicate new innards removed. That he had female anatomy, and that he had a bigger gaping anus than most gay men had.

Now my words are very insensitive just like his were and very inappropriate at that.

Men of God don't use those analogies!!!

I am not a religous person but once was.

I cannot and wiil not accept this kind of intolerance in MY/today's America. It is simply wrong. We need to move forward as a country. American's like Falwell are incapable of moving us forward as a whole.

Both sides of the political spectrum need to be able to at least attempt honestly and wholeheartedly to move this country forward.

The speech ie preaching that Falwell did only takes back and not forward.

Hate is a very harsh word to use period.

But was not some of the things that Falwell spewed indeed hatespeech?

One of the reasons I am no longer a Christian or even religous for that matter is because of men like Falwell.

What exactly gets you into heaven vs hell is another reason. If everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their saviour gets into heaven? At one time I was in this boat. But now do I stand that same chance? Falwell said alot of hateful things that were both fundamentally wrong and cruel but he was a man of gud supposedly. Does that mean that even though the things he said were deplorable that he still gets in? In comparision in my opening I said I could care less if there is an afterlife or not. Even though I commited to Christ at a younger age does that mean there is still a place reserved for me the current non beliver.

If all that is the case I hope I am burning in hell just as Falwell is currently. But then again it is all in what your convictions are when you die.

Falwell wasn't threat to anyone who valued religious freedom. That's Missing kskd's mistake.

We live in a pluralistic society. We are not threatened by people we disagree with. We debate them. We do not demonize them. We also don't feel happy about their passing.

"We are not threatened by people we disagree with. We debate them."

Have you ever seen or heard a concession within a debate? One that was significant to you?

"We are not threatened by people we disagree with. We debate them. We do not demonize them. We also don't feel happy about their passing."

So saying a comment about how AIDS is God's punishment against homosexuals and their increased tolerance in society is NOT demonizing people that he disagreed with? Suggesting that if you are not a born-again Christian, you are a failure as a human being is NOT demonizing the secular folks out there?

He had every right to say his piece about what he felt, just like I have the right to think it's a bunch of crap. I don't feel all warm and fuzzy about his passing, but don't you think that maybe he had the negative comments and ill feelings coming based on the intolerance and hatred he spread to his following, once again "in the name of God"??

If Falwell gets into Heaven, that is one place I never want to be.

A side note: I think a couple of hard-core conservatives are getting an education here. They were dead wrong in assuming we "hated" the president. Bush is just dumb. Falwell deserved to be hated.

Nailed it exactly!!

Education indeed.

DD, I'm quite sure it's not a mistake and the support for that comes from your post!

"We debate them."

Yes we do! Good on you for saying that. It's perfectly American and I'm very glad you had it in you.

Debating means some boundaries for said debate, does it not? This means actual deeds have limits, if one is to respect the freedom of all, and that's where Falwell and others present as a serious threat.

Again, I need to say this: I like religion. I think it's healthy, I think people need it and I think it does a lot of good. Religion deserves the highest respect because it's a personal thing, it's important and it's vital to many of us, in that it often defines who we are and represents what we can be.

This is exactly why our founders wrote our law the way it was written. We had thinkers like Thomas Paine -- "Age of Reason" (among other works you all really should go read online, along with the federalist papers), who had the clarity of mind sufficient to parse through the dogma and realize where the boundaries of freedom, law and our own society collide.

For most of us, it's a debate. We choose where our faith lies, how we worship, or not, and make our life choices accordingly. That's American and it's powerful and something we really all should be very proud of. This idea has changed the world and we are all better for it.

Falwell, and others like him, don't buy into this. They see that freedom as a void to be conquered --filled with their particular brand of faith. Where most of us see freedom and tolerance for others, these kinds see unclaimed people in serious need of their moral leadership.

(that's just so completely and horribly selfish, I can't even describe.)

Finally, they confuse conviction with truth. If, somehow, all the people could be made to see things their way, the truth will have been revealed, the game won, and the world morally right in the end. They would have this nation become theirs, in both spirit and law, such that the void, the freedom is diminished, leaving only comfort for their need to more fully realize their convictions.

(never mind others)

This is a clear and present threat DD. Make no mistkake about it. It's not anti-religion to state this, it's actually quite the opposite! Just about everyone I know is religious and it's all fine and good. Some people I know have something within them that calls to me --that is good and hopeful. I don't mind sharing in that. There are times I need to share in that.

Falwell was not about any of those things. Really he was about Falwell. Same goes for the usual suspects too, which is why I seriously think they are needed home more than they are needed here!

Comes down to this: If ones faith is just and true, conviction is defensible as is advocacy. Just living ones own life is all the advocacy anyone else should ever need and that's right out of the good book, just the way my wonderful sunday school teacher taught it long ago.

We don't need laws, we don't need national declaritions of one faith over another, etc... Real faith, that is just and true, does not take dollars to promote, respects no national boundaries, does not discriminate among it's potential followers, because it just is and that is enough.

Falwell is a member of that segment of the population that has their own personal issues tainting their faith. They have needs that must be realized at any cost. It's their deal, not God's or any other Americans. All about them and that is exactly where the problem lies and where hate is fueled. Had Falwell possessed the strength of character to understand and come to acceptance on these simple things, he would have done a lot of good in this world. It was his choice in the end not to.

I was once very religious too. And like others here, asses like Falwell, Robertson, et al. turned me away from that --likely for good actually! I know that's not helping matters. He knew this as well, yet continued on for his reasons, not Gods or anyone elses.

That, again, is where the threat is.

I see all the libs are having a good time celebrating a good mans death.

All that will do in energize his 30 million followers. The only reason the dems got a small
majority in the last election, is that a lot of Rev Falwells followers stayed home.


That won't happen in the next election.

Riiiiiight.

I'm shakin'.

You are terrible at the fear thing, Nwokie. ( Unless, of course, you are saying that YOU respond to fear - booga booga stuff like you are always saying? Maybe that's what you are saying ).

Nwokie is a good Bush/Cheney rightie. They thrive on fear.

> Falwell, and others like him, don't buy into
> this. They see that freedom as a void to be
> conquered--filled with their particular brand of
> faith. Where most of us see freedom and
> tolerance for others, these kinds see unclaimed
> people in serious need of their moral leadership.

I think that this description fits most, if not all of Evangelical Christianity and militant Islam. I am pretty certain that historians will eventually see the period we live in now as one in which a major clash of civilizations occurred.

I acknowledge that some churches and religious organizations are willing to engage in interfaith dialogue and to make some concessions because they see harmonious co-existence with other religious organizations as the only practical way to achieve peace.

However, people who are obsessed with doctrinal purity, such as the Evangelicals, today's Jihadists, etc. have a different idea of how to achieve peace. They believe that peace is what will happen after all of the (remaining) people in the world subscribe to the same "true" religious view. Any compromise, no matter how small is an act of treason towards God!! As much as some adherents may try to put a positive marketing spin on that view, the only way to achieve the goal of everybody in the world being a Biblical Christian, a Wahabi Muslim, etc. is by forcibly converting and killing people. I, by the way, would be one of the people they would have to kill.

Me too!

And that realization more or less demands some action. Who wouldn't, given the same scenario?

I dont remember ever hearing an evangical leader advocating killing all Muslims or abortion doctors for that matter.

My retired clergy dad has a saying, and this applies to those of us of faith. "Be centered on Christ and in everything else....hang loose."

I consider myself ecumenical not evangelical.

EVANGELISM
Evangelism is telling others about the Gospel of Christ. The Bible teaches that every Christian has the responsibility to evangelize. "Always be ready to make a defence to everyone who asks you to give an account of the hope that is in you." 1 Peter 3:15

From:
http://www.bible.ca/g-commit-test.htm

Herb

Herb this is where we truly differ. The Rev. Jim Wallis calls himself an evangelical but a progressive one. I know that probably seems like an oxymoron to you.

Far right conservative evangelicals are the problem to me. St. Francis of Assisi said in essence: "Go out into all the world and preach the gospel...and if necessary use words."

You and I come from different experiences of faith and how we express it and share it. Which is fine and actually a good thing. I consider faith deeply personal and if others truly want to know what makes me spiritually tick they can ask. However I believe by showing or living my faith is a much stronger testimony.

It's why I believe the Good Lord gave us two ears and only one mouth.

"...Far right conservative evangelicals are the problem..."

Now wait a minute. I get called on the carpet for using labels, but for others it's just fine and dandy to use them?

I wouldn't normally have a problem with using labels as they're handy shorthand, but I do have a problem with the 'don't do as I do, do as I say' type attitude.

Herb

and around and around you go. eat your crow.

may the "good" man Falwell grace one side of the enterance to God's Hall of Shame. (The other side is reserved for Rev. Jim Phelps when he finally croaks.)

Herb - I wasn't using the term "far right" as a put down but only for clarification based on what I have read and witnessed. As I stated before I consider myself ecumenical. Just another handy label to clarify. I'm not bothered by your use of the phrase ham-fisted towards others on the board.

I was not trying to make a personal attack and forgive me if it felt like one.

No problem. I just dislike being told not to use short hand, whilst others do it.

Herb

We all seem to do that here at one time or another.

Why does the EXTREME RIGHT have so much hate in their hearts? The WORLD would like to know....

Hate from the right?

Oh, you mean John Edward's former blogger making light of Reverend Falwell's death and saying that he's now entering the gates of hell?

Or leftist Christopher Hitchens calling Reverend Falwell a 'toad' and mocking him before he's even buried.

Hate indeed.

Herb

Herb-
To many of us Falwell was the face of homophobia.

http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?g=82bc48b8-4daa-4d05-a4d4-083cabd90c42&f=null &fg=email

Rev. Jim Wallis has these words concerning Falwell. And I personally find them worthy of your comments:


I watched much of the cable television coverage of Jerry Falwell's death and legacy. And I did a lot of grimacing, in response to both the uncritical adulations of his allies (who just passed over the divisive character of much of Falwell's rhetoric), and also the ugly vitriol from some of Falwell's enemies (who attacked both his character and his faith). And there were even some who attacked all people of faith. I ended up being glad that I had passed up all the invitations to be on those shows. On the day of Rev. Jerry Falwell's death, I was content to offer a brief statement, which read:
I was saddened to learn that Rev. Jerry Falwell passed away this morning at age 73. Rev. Falwell and I met many times over the years, as the media often paired us as debate partners on issues of faith and politics. I respected his passionate commitment to his beliefs, and our shared commitment to bringing moral debate to the public square, although we didn't agree on many things. At this time, however, what matters most is our prayers for comfort and peace for his family and friends.


Two days later, I might add that Falwell, in his own way, did help to teach Christians that their faith should express itself in the public square and I am grateful for that, even if the positions Falwell took were often at great variance with my own. I spent much of my early Christian life fighting the privatizing of faith, characterized by the withdrawal of any concern for the world (so as to not be "worldly") and an exclusive focus on private matters. If God so loved the world, God must care a great deal about what happens to it and in it. Falwell agreed with that, and blew the trumpet that awakened fundamentalist Christians to engage the world with their faith and moral values. And that commitment is a good thing. Jerry and I debated often about how faith should impact public life and what all the great moral issues of our time really are.

But many conservative Christians are now also embracing poverty, HIV/AIDS, Darfur, sex trafficking, and even the war in Iraq as matters of faith and moral imperatives. It would have been nice to hear on those TV shows that Jerry Falwell, too, had moved to embrace a broader agenda than just abortion and homosexuality. Rev. Falwell, who was admittedly racist during the civil rights movement, was in later years honored by the Lynchburg NAACP for his turn-about on the issue of race, showing the famous founder of the Religious Right's capacity to grow and change. But two nights ago on television, I saw the pain on the face of gay Christian Mel White, who lamented that despite his and other's efforts, Falwell never did even moderate his strong and often inflammatory language (even if maintaining his religious convictions) against gay and lesbian people. They still feel the most wounded by the fundamentalist minister's statements; that healing has yet to be done.

Ralph Reed said that Jerry Falwell presided over the "marriage ceremony" between religious fundamentalists and the Republican Party. That's still a concern about the Religious Right for many of us, and should be a warning for the relationship of any so-called religious left with the Democrats. But perhaps in the overly partisan mistakes that Jerry Falwell made - and actually pioneered - we can all be instructed in how to forge a faith that is principled but not ideological, political but not partisan, engaged but not used. That's how the Catholic Bishops put it, and it is a better guide than the direction we got from the Moral Majority. But Falwell proclaimed a public faith, not a private one. And I am with him on that. As I like to say, God is personal, but never private. So let's pray for Jerry Falwell's family, the members of his Thomas Road Baptist Church, and all the students at his Liberty University. And let's learn from his legacy - about how and how not to best apply our faith to politics.

Wow.

In Surprise Move, God Snuffs Out Jerry Falwell

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0507/falwell.html

I tried not to laugh, I really did...

So I ordered some new underwear from the church's website to repent. Hopefully Jesus will accept that as a token and forgive me.