I found this article on the web.....

http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/83415

The subject lines Reads: Eighty year old technology makes a U.S. comeback...

I'm not anti-cable, but I am anti-cable-bill (15 years without it, so far).

I've had an antenna (first rabbit ears, then an outdoor Channel Master) for 10 years since I moved into my current house. I bought an HDTV with tuner last year and I have excellent HD reception with the channel master.

no surprises there old VHF/UHF antennas will work with HDTV but the catch is SNR it has to be about 15 to 20 Db I think to allow the tuner to decode the HDTV signal correctly with the rooftop antenna it is possible to DX HDTV there are several out there who do just that and the distance record for HDTV DX is about 1,130 miles and the results are incredible even from distances of 400 or 800 miles the picture is still so clear you will have to convince yourself that the station is not next door.

I've seen people refer to DX'ing before, what exactly does that mean? I know, lame noob question, just curious.

it refers to receiving TV or radio from long distances through unusual conditions

"unusual conditions" Like if I put santa outfits on my cats, and sang them a lullaby, while using a ham radio?

no more like atmospheric conditions such as tropospheric ducting which is triggered by something like a temperature inversion or rapid temperature changes on clear days with high atmospheric pressure or E-skip where the signals bounce off the ionosphere the conditions that cause E-skip are currently unknown but there is much being done to investigate this

Interesting! I shall look into this E-skip of which you speak. Thanks for the info.

The idea of HDTV DXing is pretty intriguing. I am curious what folks around here can grab. Maybe this new found bit of fun will make up for the demise of clear channel AM at night.

Back in 1986, I was visiting a friend in Tampa. One day, after a good afternoon of African SWL, I spun the FM dial for some music. I stopped quickly when I heard a spot on a station advertising ski equipment. After a few more ads, I found out the station was in Colorado. That was the finest example of skip I have ever encountered. My friend and I listened for almost an hour before it went away.

...and I shall look into those kitty Santa outfits. Those darn kitties are so cute!

I think the internet more than makes up for a lack of DXing on AM! I could understand it when the stations had specific programming to that region or just a great announcer but just to hear the same thing at several places on the dial, doesn't intrigue me that much. I would take out the line "through unusual conditions".

Semoochie, good point. We lost the ability to hear the flavors of other parts of the country, but they have no flavor to offer anymore. Art Bell at 9 different points on the dial is not good DX'ing, but the Canadian regionals are still fun.

SWL has found Jesus domestically. For music, the glory days of WRNO and KYOI are but a distant memory, but the pirates have kept it interesting once in a while. I still like RA, RNZ, RN, BBC, NHK and DW, but they can all be streamed as well.

That reminds me, in the last 3 days, my seek button stopped at 99.1 and 96.5 on the Banfield. Both stations(probably the same program)were Adult Standards.

"santa outfits on my cats, and sang them a lullaby, while using a ham radio"

That's "unusual"? Then you may not want to come to the next PDXradio group function...now THAT was "unusual". Prepare to be shocked. (But we'd love to see you, so bring rabbit ears, your tin-foil hat, and the kitties.)

Anybody have any recieved-in-PDX HDTV DX reports?

There was a link to an article about this. The link may have been on this board. In the article, it states that there's a certain level where anything above that is perfect reception, just below is hammered by artifacts and below that, no picture. I think it was someone in Santa Barbara or there abouts pulling in San Diego.

When is the next pdxradio function? I'm so there! I'll make sure to hit up Mens Warehouse for some kitty tuxes. I myself, as usual, will be wearing a sandwich board that professes my love for Jessica Simpson and Cheese Whiz (not necessarily together, mind you)

My inside HDTV Antenna works crappy, signal loss all the time and thats even on nice weather days. I can see the TV towers blinking from my house so I even have line of sight. Any ideas?

The tin-foil hat, I'm tellin' ya!

The tin foil hat is a given, I don't need any crazy aliens (from outer space, not the fuzzy kind from other countries) stealing my brain!

Fuzzy? Does that include Tribbles™?

Bigba, I still have problems with channel 8.1 only. When a car, and especially the #1 bus goes by my house we lose signal. We have to switch over and watch analog, which, of course, is LD.

dont forget the flux capacitor!

siriusly though, check out this site:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25

When I get my HDTV (hopefully soon) will I have enough RF for a digital signal from my Radio Shack outdoor antenna from NE Salem?? Plenty of signal (no ghosts) on analog channels...even Ch.2 is acceptable for the wife to watch Jeopardy!

Most of the HDTV signals are on UHF... how well do you get 49, 24 and 54 from Portland ?

Those damn Tribbles are always causing me grief! Same for Gossamer from the Warner Brothers cartoons... Also, Robin Williams and his fur suit are frightening as hell!

When I was growing up on the east coast, TV DXing was a springtime and summer ritual. However, most of the DX catches happened on the low VHF channels (2-6), which are below 88 MHz. At times, these skip signals could be very strong. While living in Altoona, PA, I once received a station from Nebraska on channel 5, using rabbit ears. At the time that I tuned in, a weather forecast was on, and they showed a weather map of that state. Another time, while living in Auburn, AL, I picked up a mish-mash on Channel 4, again using rabbit ears, that turned out to be WIVB from Buffalo, NY and a CBC station. I was able to identify CBC because of their characteristic network jingle, and I was able to identify WIVB from a commercial for a business with a Buffalo address.

I don't remember KYOI on shortwave, but I'm glad that I did have a chance to experience KUSW and WRNO. The aspect of DX that is difficult to explain to non-radio people is the thrill of finding radio stations because of the flakey nature of skip propagation. You don't know what you will find until you listen (or watch), and therefore, it is a bit like gambling. Discovering pirate radio stations, even if they are local low powered FM pirates, is the same type of experience because one doesn't expect to hear them, and one doesn't know when or if one will hear them again. Internet radio is more like watching cable TV; it is very reliable, but finding the stations isn't fun.

Jr teck
>>how well do you get 49, 24 and 54 from Portland

Get UHF good too so hopefully all will be well...

Broadway:

Sounds as if you are in pretty good shape for Portland HDTV. If you do get some dropout, like perhaps during a heavy rainstorm, you can always add a amplifier to boost the signal level.
Over the air HDTV is pretty much an "all or nothing" situation, you can go from "perfect picture" to "some freezing/breakup" to "no picture" with only minor changes in signal level, if you have a marginal signal.
Too bad HDTV can't revert to analog when conditions are bad, like HD radio does.

there could be a way HDTV channels are listed as 8.1 for example the tuner could take this info and move to the analog when the digital is too weak.

That is an interesting point. Enabling the tuner to switch back & forth may make that work. Currently there is about a 1 second delay between the analog and digital programs.

The HD picture is so much bigger that it travels slower ;).

The fly in the ointment is that there won't be any analog after February 17, 2009!

Over the air HDTV is not the same as analog in the reception. You think FM signals and multipath cause problems, wait till you try digital tv. The digital stations are susceptible to reflections, cancellations, etc. Analog television is forgiving. Digital is not. You can point your antenna straight to the towers and pick up some but not others. On adjacent channels. Sometimes, you have to turn the antenna slightly off what you would assume to be the correct alignment to get a station. You could have two channels sharing the same panel and you could pick up one but not the other unless you turn the antenna away. And, if you have a difficult one and get it to work, you might not get two others. It also depends on where you place the antenna on the roof and the height above the roof and proximity to other antennas. If you put an amplifier on the antenna, you may overdrive the receiver and it still won't work. You may think you have the cleanest setup and don't get them all and a neighbor may have his antenna sitting in an attic on the beams and get them all perfectly.

I took an outdoor Radio Shack (I know, I know) UHF antenna, current model they sell for $25) put it on a stand in my entryway one foot off the floor, pointed it to the towers (I am 16 miles away as the crow flies)and could lock on all stations and subs. I put it on the roof with the same orientation and can't get 2 and 6 (DT). Turn it a little and I get them but can't get 32 or 8, Turn it a little more and they come in but I lose 2 and 49. Fun, Fun, Fun.
Talk to the engineers at the stations and they all say the same thing..... try turning the antenna a little.

This is going to be fun in two years.

If I actually break down and buy one of the newfangled TVs in 2009, whom should I send my thanks to for all of these reception problems?

From my limited experience, it seems that lower powered VHF signals seem to work better in our area for digital TV. (probably due to the fact that lower power=less multipath and VHF seems to handle obstacles like hills, trees and buildings a bit better than UHF)

At my location (in a narrow valley approximately 60 miles SW of PDX) the most consistent reception comes from KPXG on actual channel 4 at 16kW. Two other PDX stations with high power digital UHFs (KOIN and KATU) are received sporadically, while the remainder of the DTV signals from Portland are non-existent here. OK, they actually exist, but there is too much multipath for any DTV receiver to be able to decode any discernable picture and sound from them.

I do have a question for those "in the know." I thought I heard that the low VHF channels are going to be re-assigned for other services. Is this true?

I don't think we will lose channels 2-6 I remember reading that 2-59 were going to be the core channels after the DTV transition. The VHF low band should remain as the 54-88 MHz range has propagation characteristics that do not exist at UHF or high VHF.

Channels 8 and 10 will be digital on VHF after February 2009 and give up their UHF channels.

...and 12!

Sweet! When 8 moves to VHF the I'll be able to watch Days and Oprah in full HD glory with no dropouts!!!!

What a gyp! The way that DTV will "reclaim" spectrum is by turning off simulcasting! Hey, KGW was only on VHF channel 8 before they started doing DTV.

On a more serious note, when (and if) DTV is broadcast on VHF channels 8, 10, and 12, will translators receiving these channels be able to pass along the DTV signals?

Yes