Im a huge Beach Boys fan, i think that "I get around" is one of the greatest songs ever recorded. I also think that the Beach Boys are WAAAAY better than the Beatles, and never got the credit that the Beatles did. Why is that?? I heard thats why Brian Wilson got all depressed and started hiding out in his room was because he wanted to make a record BETTER than Rubber Soul. But I digress, while I LOVE the Beach Boys, they sure put out a handfull of pathetic/emberrasing songs like "Barbraann"(sp) One of the most ridiculously stupid songs ever recorded. Whats up with the stupid laughter in the middle of the song, and with them messing up on the lyrics. Was that intentional?? The one line where they talk about "peggy sue" makes me cringe when i hear it.
Again I love the Beach Boys, I think that "pet sounds" Was one of the greatest records EVER, but as I look back at all the songs they put out, they sure put out some CRAP. "the Drive in"--- AWFUL!!! I also Think that the early Beach boys songs were too juvanile like "fun fun fun" and "surfin Usa", I can't stand those songs. I like the more mature songs from The Beach boys, the songs that are not talking about Women and surfing.
Here are my top 5 favorite Beach Boys songs of all time. What are yours??? And why did the Beach boys not get the acclaim that the Beatles did?
5. I get around ( LOVE that song, never heard vocals that sound so great together)
4. "Do it again"- One of my favorite Beach Boys songs, but I never hear it on the radio. Why is that?
3. Sloop John B- Genius.
2. Wouldn't it be nice
1. God only knows- Brilliant!

Kokamo- AWFUL! nevr understood why that song got to be so popular, Brian Wilson is not even in the song! I cringe every time I hear that song.

Craig's Top 10 Beach Boy Songs:
1. God Only Knows
2. I Get Around
3. Dance, Dance, Dance
4. Little Saint Nick
5. I Can Here Music
6. Darlin'
7. It's OK
8. Good Timin'
9. Break Away
10. Sail On Sailor

In My Room
Good Vibrations
Pet Sounds
Sail On Sailor

Warmth of the Sun
plus Craig's #1,3,7,8,and 10.

beach boy tribute band "the beach toys" to perform in area this some www.beachtoys.com

Weren't there endless "Beatles vs. Beach Boys" debates in the 60s? I mean, I was born in the last 60s so I obviously don't remember them but I recall hearing about them. (I am a huge fan of both bands - I listened to my parents' old 45s as a kid growing up in the 70s.)

Obviously Brian Wilson was (is) a genius, more for his arrangements and song composition than anything else, and certainly ranks with Lennon and McCartney as one of the 20th century's elite artists. But the Beatles clearly had a larger, more significant impact on the music world and pop culture than the Beach Boys as a band did. The Beatles were ahead of the curve on almost everything. They opened the door for so many other bands with almost every step of their career through Sgt. Pepper, setting the new standards for everyone else to follow. The Beach Boys didn't quite have that impact.

One could argue, I think, that Dylan was even more influential than either the Beach Boys or the Beatles. Dylan never had the commercial success or popular appeal of either band but his influence is everywhere.

Andrew

"And why did the Beach boys not get the acclaim that the Beatles did?"

main reason: too clean cut.




my personal observations:

The Beach Boys did not have it all together as the Beatles did. Bob Dylan suffered from sloppy musicmanship -- The Beatles were smart enough to fix it during production (George Martin).

Great thread! I am glad to be in such good company! I love the Beach boys. I believe that Brian Wilson is one of the greatest composers in American history -- right in there with Scott Joplin, Aaron Copland, Count Basie, Henry Mancini, and Leonard Bernstein.

If some of the early singles are corny, much of the blame/credit can be laid at the feet of Brian's lyrical collaborators. He did not often share his own words. Silly really, since some of his best songs were rooted in lyrics he suggested. Sadly, his two finest teammates, Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks, only worked on one release apiece. Still, even with dopey lyrics that simply reflected current pop culture, it is impossible to ignore the greatness of the tunes themselves.

"Barbara Ann" was recorded for a "live at a party" album, which was, for the time, a revolutionary concept. The songs from "Today!" and "Summer Days and Summer Nights" were showing the direction Brian was headed, so it may have seemed odd to strip it all down just before "Pet Sounds." I think it simply shows the versatility of the band, and was an imaginative way to deal with the ever present pressure from Capitol to release material. Remember, not only did the suits get nervous and deep six the commercial potential of "Pet Sounds" by putting out the first "Greatest Hits" collection, but just three years later, "20/20" in 1969 marked the twentieth album released on Capitol in seven years. With the possible exception of Motown, few songwriters, producers or acts had to deliver more material in less time.

To get the right vibe, the songs on "Beach Boys Party" were tracked at Western in an informal atmosphere with the band and a small group of friends. Apparently the silliness did get out of hand at points and was toned down -- after being fleshed out musically -- in the mixing process. A few expletives were removed, but, if you listen closely for the middle Wilson, not all of them. (A few years later, Dennis would have sex in Mike Love's "meditation chamber" and track one of his rendezvous for use on a record.)

It is utterly unfair to compare the Beatles and Beach Boys. The two bands had fine songwriters, the best recording studios in their region, and were celebrated and royally screwed by the same record label. At a point, they also shared a publicist. Beyond that, it is silly to try.

For starters, producers like Nick Venet and others were just suits and ties. A quick learner, Brian Wilson produced virtually all of his own songs, worked out increasingly complex arrangements with some of the best session players in the world, and embraced leaps in technology with equally sophisticated songwriting. There is no "Sergeant Pepper" without "Pet Sounds" and that is a fact you can verify with Sir Paul.

Chuck Britz has always maintained that Brian had a complete grasp of the studio. Abbey Road had a team of professionals, and while the band existed, recording was something those four guys -- who wasted time chasing Magic Alex when they had a brilliant producer and their choice of world class studios -- obviously never grasped. For all of the experimentation, the musique concrete, plagarism and after hours monkeyshine, without George Martin, Geoff Emerick, Ken Scott and many others, the Beatles were lost. After all these years, only Paul has proven to be a doggone good engineer on his own.

Carol Kaye has always said that Brian did virtually all the arrangements, but was open to good suggestions. The Beatles made suggestions and had a tip-top arranger in George Martin. This is not to pick on the Beatles, or to ignore the fact that Paul became a fine arranger after the band parted ways.

I think that Brian Wilson was one of a kind. His brain did bend and eventually break under the strain, but to me, that does not diminish what the man has created and continues to create. He is a studio pioneer, a musical innovator, and to quote a zealous Derek Taylor, "a genius."

I do like Bob Dylan, but his wholesale adoption of a persona and his shameless pilfering of Woody Guthrie has always left me with mixed feelings. Dylan also got very very lucky to find the folks who worked with him -- Roy Halee and The Band instantly come to mind.

Brian and Bob are both brilliant. They are among the best examples of the classic screwed up introverted American navel gazing songwriter. The main difference to me is that no part of the gorgeous ache in Wilson's music has ever seemed false or contrived. He was himself -- whether it was corny or not. Still, it is an unfair comparison, like the Fab Four argument. They all wrote their own legend in their own way and are among my very favorite artists.

believe that Brian Wilson is one of the greatest composers in American history.

Yep. As do I.

(late to the party, but I love this music as well)

This is going to make no sense ( even to me, it doesn't );

I do not like The Beach Boys one bit. I have MANY theories about why they do not appeal to me, but I'll spare you. The Beatles, however, are perfect to me. I have spent years analyzing why I love The Beatles, yet dislke The Beach Boys so much. I own the entire catalogue of each band and listened to them extensively.

I'm not high right now, just eccentric and picky.

I do not like the pictures The Beach Boys' music paints. I know I'm not the only who can see music and we are talking about two bands that have immense talent. Obviously. But the way I FEEL when I listen to those bands are polar opposite. What I feel I see could not be further from one another. Some of it has to with actual sonic qualities of the vocals - other times it not that.

I could go on and on. But I'm tellin' ya, I have given this a LOT of thought - only as it applies to me and me alone. It's confusing to wonder why I like such a similar style in the two, yet have such a visceral reaction against The Beach Boys. I think I have it pegged as mostly as environmental on my part.

Next up: Why Pink Floyd misses my mark.

Heres an interesting question, and yes I know, you can't compare anybody to Brian Wilson, he is a genius, but is there anybody in this generation that measures up to him?. Just curious! Who is the closest thing to Brain wilson in Todays generations of bands. I know its slim pickins simce most of the stuff coming out today is CRAP!

"Next up: Why Pink Floyd misses my mark."

Wow! Can't wait.

Yeah, I bet.

Pass the bong.

"Seeing music"... yep. Every sound, for me, has a motion, shape and often colors. Always has.

There are two levels here though. Consider the well composed piece. It's good no matter what right? How it's rendered may not appeal, but that's a seperate matter. Think of it like classical music performed on strange instruments. Great piece, and that can be seen through the mess the execution of it may or may not make.

...Pink Floyd misses the mark?

All ears on that one!

Okay, this is great stuff. I've hung back so i could observe, and also since this topic is so close to my musical heart, I wanted to devote thought to it.

Littlesongs did a wonderful history/review of BB so I won't go into that. Dude should be a music critic.

Comparing BB vs. Beatles is pointless. Each has tremendous value, influence, and accomplishments. I love them both. The Beatles had the larger sociological impact though.

I like most everyone was aware of the BB early music as a youngster. Then The Beatles phenomenon. But my first BB music purchase was "Smiley Smile". When I heard that album, things changed. So my first deep exposure to BB music was during thier "advanced" phase; "Good Vibrations", "Heroes & Villans", etc. Complex, orchestrated music with complicated, obscure lyrics. No more "Fun, Fun, Fun". Parts of that album sound like a symphony, other parts like a pot party.

Chickenjugglers post is fascinating. Does not like the BB "one bit", but owns thier entire catalog? Wow. I'm going to have to re-read and study that. As far as "seeing music", I totally understand that. That's why, when I'm down, or stressed, or negative, the Beach Boy's songs below and many many others can pull me out of it. To me, it's like a church in your mind (to go all 60's hippie). The Beatles, love them for completely different reasons. Different thread I suppose.

All that said, it's impossible for me to pick 5, but here goes anyway:

1. Surf's Up
2. God Only Knows
3. Marcella
4. Cabinessence
5. Feel Flows

Honorable mention for beautiful goofiness: Vegetables

Oh, and one last thing:
I do not like Pink Floyd one bit. Except for "Astronomy Domine."

kskd sez: "There are two levels here though. Consider the well composed piece. It's good no matter what right? How it's rendered may not appeal, but that's a seperate matter."

IMO, how its rendered matters a heck of a lot more than the former. This is where Bob Dylan kills himself and the Beach Boys are mediocre. While I have both Dylan and BB LPs, only The Beatles got updated to CD status.

Looks like there is a big crowd here that is anti-Floyd!

I have neverf liked Pink Floyd!

As for the Beach Boys, I liked their earlier work
their later works, as the beatles seemed excessively forced, less spontanious, less fun.

. . . and that's our report from the Hee-Haw generation spokesperson. We'll be back after these words from Billy Bob's Banjo Picks.

I am curious about your take on Floyd, Chickenjuggler.
Fleetwood Mac is at least two different bands.
Chicago is at least two different bands.
Electric Light Orchestra is two bands as well, and if you count the Move, at least three.
Which Pink Floyd do you detest? All four?

Personally, I am quite fond of the early Syd Barrett material, but beyond a few brilliant UK singles, I am not sure it would work for radio. "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" was tracked -- along with "S.F. Sorrow" by the Pretty Things and part of "Odessey and Oracle" by the Zombies -- at Abbey Road with engineering and production from members of the EMI/Beatles team. The other records being recorded, "Sgt. Pepper" and "Magical Mystery Tour" hardly suffered from all of the experimentation that was going on at the time. Listening to all those releases now, the cross-pollination is obvious, and gorgeous. (The Pretty Things even snuck in and borrowed instruments from the Fab Four!)

I also truly enjoy the period immediately after Barrett's departure when Richard Wright was featured as a songwriter. It is hard to imagine a world without, "Seesaw" and others. Some of the stuff might seem dated or silly, but few bands had a major label contract and got away with so much experimentation. After all, Columbia dropped "The United States of America" after just one watershed -- but poor selling -- release, the Velvet's obviously didn't get a fair shake, and a little later, Faust and Can were not "big" either.

PF III began when Roger Waters took almost complete control. Well, except for Alan Parsons' skills and Gilmour's contributions. I love how Nick Mason prattles on and on now about how little the band needed guys like Alan, Joe Boyd, Norman Smith and others. Sure thing buddy -- now that you boys have one of the nicest studios in the world floating lazily on the Thames -- let's pretend you didn't learn from the best. By the end of the big money making phase, Roger rewrote "Corporal Clegg" over and over, went out of his nut, and blew up the band.

Longtime collaborator Bob Ezrin stepped in and put PF IV on the map in the 80s with the remaining trio, but I really do not have a great deal of love for this latest phase either. They still wrote/write socially conscious songs, but like most of their post-1973 work, it is frankly boring rants from rich white guys. The fact that these duffers could not put the axes down and get together when the Berlin Wall fell is still the most glaring evidence that it is all about, "Money" and perhaps, all along, not a helluvalot more.

As cracked and suicidal fellows go, I am much more fond of Brian Wilson, Phil Ochs, Pete Ham, Roy Wood, Nick Drake, etc. than either Waters or Barrett. Syd volunteered for crazy by taking so much Mandrax and it stole his talent away. Roger never sought help for the pain of his memories, but instead milked them until the udder was stripped. They were/are both far more suited to happier songs and experimentation, rather than exorcisms.

I love this thread. I am having a helluva time narrowing a top ten from the Beach Boys. The travesty of "Kokomo" just makes me angry to think about. Since those opportunists ruined any chance this single had the first time around, how about turning Brian's "Love and Mercy" into a classic instead? Trust me, you will look a whole lot less stupid with it in the rotation. Skip the Fat Boys collaboration too.

Hey Littlesongs I agree, Kokomo was the biggest pile of dog crap to hit the radio. As a beach boys fan I am almost offended that they would stoop that low.
The Beach Boys Rock!! Id take the Beach Boys anyday over the Beatles.

If I could figure out a way to ask 100% objectively, I'm thinking that a fairly high number of people who prefer The Beach Boys over The Beatles follow a certain path when it comes to " Bands you respond to."

My brother and I got into this conversation at a bar and we established 4 or 5 separate trunks that some trees influenced that have very distinct qualities. I'm not saying there is NO overlap - but there is less.

There are certain schools, musically, that have their own trunks. That is to say they have their own defined origins.

The conversation began with about 11 beers. My brother said " So who do you think it picking up the specific torch that The Beatles have lit? " That question was phrased just in the way that brothers who grew up on the same music know.

So as an experiment - and there are no right or wrong answers - who do you think have picked up and tried to carry the Beatles' torch? Not just influenced by - but extended it - made it as good as they could?

I'll talk about my answer later.

But Blues obviously was the core for many artists. We determined that Steely Dan had their own trunk.

As did Pink Floyd.

Led Zeppelin was too influenced by blues to call them their own trunk.

But there were a few that did their own thing.

I heard that Led Zeppelin Ripped off a lot of riffs from Stevie Wonder. I can totally hear Stevie Wonder on certain Zeppelin Tunes. Just a random thought!
As far as Pink Floyd goes, 2 WORDS - STONER ROCK!
If you were a big pot head and smoked a lot of Weed or still do than you probably think that Pink Floyd is the greatest band on the earth. Ask any stoner if they like Pink Floyd and I can almost guarentee you that they will say "HELL YEAH"! While non stoners just don't get why Pink Floyd is so great. Again Pink Floyd is Stoner ROCK! If you're high, you're lovin it!
Just my 2 cents

Led Zeppelin stole from many different artists and bands. One could write a book that pointed out the root of every single idea the band used during their career. Positively nothing but their individual interpretation is original at all. It proves, once again, that a relatively inexperienced and energetic front-person can be paired with seasoned arrangers and session men and big hits will follow. What worked out well for Robert, worked for Shaun Cassidy a few years later, just in a different way.

We could start a thread called "Culture Vultures" and harp on Zeppelin, David Bowie and many others who just took whatever they wanted from what was hot in the moment, painted it in their own colors and puked it back up for an adoring audience. Or -- like Paul Simon has on and off since "El Candor Pasa" -- one can just take a traditional piece and put a pithy English lyric over it. Bowie is an immensely talented performer, but has only made his impact by standing on the shoulders of Marc Bolan, Brian Eno and many others. He and John Lennon rewrote a Funkadelic tune and got really rich in the process, starting a trend of ripping that band off that continues to this day in Hip-Hop.

In the case of Led Zeppelin, it is more disgusting because they also stole ideas from unknown black folks, not just peers like Bowie does. Blues based rock from the Stones is cool because they love the music and have always given credit where credit is due. I do not mind any artist who draws from the past -- and shows it's roots as Chickenjuggler pointed out -- but I will always feel that outright theft is inexcusable.

The Beatles initially took elements of everything they loved and blended it together. Not a surprise, since they were a seasoned bar band with a long list of cover tunes. This is why you hear close harmonies like Phil and Don Everly, stomping backbeats straight from the Snakepit in Motown, and elements of Little Richard, Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. Yeah, we could break virtually all the catalog down into different periods of their own musical tastes. Paul and George both borrowed from girl bands, but only one of them got caught.

As they developed, they gained their own voices, but were obviously influenced by their peers for the entire run of the band. This is why their influence seems much more far reaching, because if you blend their favorite artists, as many peers did, you come up with similar ideas. They did assimilate things in a very unique, personal way and that is what makes them so special.

What will always make Brian Wilson stand apart from the crowd is that he was competing on so many fronts at once. He was going after production giants like Spector, songwriting monsters like Holland-Dozier-Holland, and living in the greatest single musical city of the late 1960s. He was not just trying to keep up with the Beatles, and that was only a tiny bit of what eventually crushed him. Losing the faith of his touring band, a square bunch who clung to Murray's striped shirts, was a much bigger issue.

Outside of the studio, by the mid 60s, there were times that he had to work with the most ungrateful group of shortsighted idiots one could ever imagine. Here, you can tour, sleep with girls, cash the check, and I will do virtually everything else. No, no Brian, I am suddenly Mike the artist and critic, not just a balding blowhard who would be pumping gas without you. If he had really gone solo in 1966, Brian would have probably been much better off in the long run. He may have even retained control of Sea of Tunes. Mike would be remembered around the Trivial Pursuit board and be currently living on peanut butter crackers in a flophouse.

Skep sez: how it is rendered matters..

Agreed! But are we talking about the appeal of the work, or the strength of the composer? To me, these are different things. Hearing a poorly rendered composition still leaves me thinking, "it could be much more!"

A lame composition, like junk food for the ears, can be rendered really well, but I do not end up thinking, "there could be more."

Hey Littlesongs I agree. Mike Love of The Beach Boys brought very little to the band. While he was credited with co-writing a few tunes he did more damage to the Beach Boys than good. The songs Mike Love did Write were the crapola songs like "the Drive In". AWFUL! What a no good ass clown Mike Love was!
Its tooo bad Brian Wilson couldn't/didn't throw hin out of the band. Lets not forget Mike Love trying to sue Brian Wilson, nice Friend eh?
Brian Wilson should have named the group Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, since he was the creative genius behind the band.
I also hear that Charles Manson wrote a few of the Beach Boys hits and never got credited!

Thanks for starting this thread Beano! Manson wrote, "Cease to Exist" which was rewritten extensively to make something even resembling a decent tune. The song was performed by Dennis as "Never Learn Not to Love" and released on the 20/20 album. Yes, there is a Charlie and Dennis connection, but after a few weeks, and an outbreak of clap, his "family" was whisked out of the middle Wilson's house and soon moved to the ranch. I will not rehash the whole BB/CM thing because it has nothing to do with music, and the band had nothing to do with the killings beyond introducing Manson to their friend Terry Melcher.

Who has picked up the Beatles torch and extended it? That's a great question for discussion. My library is filled with many who have tried. It's the "extended it" part that is difficult. Here's a few who tried, with varying success:
Crowded House, especially with "Temple of Low Men."
Big Star
Sloan
XTC, and I would suggest they did extend it a bit.
Elvis Costello, and he extended to some degree. Maybe "refined" is a better word.
Matthew Sweet
Radiohead, from the "Sgt. Pepper" era.

You could add many more.

The Beach Boys are playing Chinook Winds Casino this weekend.

This would be the "Beach Boys" featuring Bruce Johnston and Mike Love, with a bunch of guys in Hawaiian shirts?

I'll pass.

Crowded House was a good cite, Warner. ( They've reunited, you know? ) Temple of Low Men is in my top 5 of all time. They work so well within that dark sound area so well. Very vivid. Super strong. They've got a baroque sound that I like very much. Deep bass with a tinge of tinkering-sounds that really adds. Temple of Low Men. Man. Such a great album. Kill Eye is a personal favorite. Actually, I love every song. Have you seen Farewell to the World? Stunning set list. Gave new life to some older lyrics - actually made me like them even more.

Rufus Wainwright, especially his debut album, also can do this. I credit Jon Brion for much of that. But Jon, while being an excellent producer, made Rufus sound as good as he could sound given that was his first album.

Radiohead was the band that kept coming up in my conversation with my brother. They have steered away from the power pop elements that The Beatles began, yet extended their reach with sounds thats are original. They stop JUST shy, to me, of being experimental. They are quite purposeful in their products/albums. Extremely focused. Tight. Rich without being overly grand or ornate.

Oh and XTC and Sloan - man - you're killing me. Sloan is tragically underrated.

Chickenjuggler, sounds like you and your brother and myself and my brother (who owns even more music than I do) would have some great discussions!

So, your online radio station? Where is it? I'm thinking I'd like it lots.

Anyone else but me ever heard of "Somewhere Near Japan?" It was on the "Still Cruisin" album. In that era of the Beach Boys' career that song is a pearl in a sea of disappointment. I think "Still Cruisin" is out of print now, but trust me, "Somewhere Near Japan" is a great record and should've been a big hit.

How about Brian's "Imagination" CD from 1998? Some great Beach Boys sounds there too!

Hey Scott. I owned that album and was pretty unimpressed with it.
"still Cruisin"
Make it big"
Wipe out" Featuring the Fat boys (what ever happend to them) - Awful song.
"Somewhere near japan" did nothing for me when I heard it.
I sold that album a few years back, now I wish I kept it. Coirrect me If Im wrong but wasn't "still Crusin" a top 40 hit?

Beano...You're right about the album, it was anything but impressive! Maybe that's one reason I like "Japan" so much, because it's so much better than anything else on the album! Writing credits go to John Phillips, Terry Melcher, Mike Love, and Bruce Johnston. (Tongue somewhat in cheek here, I don't know the extent of Mike's involvement...maybe the other three figured it would be easier in the long run to just give him a credit!) I'll grant it's not in the same league as "God Only Knows" but I think it's a really solid piece of pop music!

Didn't the Beach boys used to have a sunday night special back in the late 80's, early 90's where they would all sit around a campfire and sing old song?
I also thought "kokimo" was AN AWFUL SONG! Not to mention that no talent ass clown John Stamos (Aka Jessee Katsopolous, Full House) was in the video for it. "watch the Hair""-J.K.

John Phillips (of the Mamas and Papas) wrote Kokomo, shortly before his autobiography came out. Crappy song. He wrote it for the Beach Boys to sing for the soundtrack of the movie Cocktail. Which explains a lot.

I cannot stand Tom Cruise. Never could. He's had a few good acting moments, the rest of his performances make me feel rather homicidal (The Color of Money, the aforementioned Cocktail, Jerry McGuire, Rain Man (somewhat) and above all TOP GUN).

Any REAL Beach Boys fan does not even count Kokomo as the Beachboys,(Brian Wilson wanted nothing to do with that song, (smart man!) Its too bad that piece of crap was one of their biggest hits if not the biggest hit of their career.

After listening to "Pet Sounds" By The Beach Boys, my first reaction was WOW, this is a really depressing album. Total melancholy lyrics, and not the typical fun uplifting lyrics about the beach and meeting women. You can tell Brian Wilsons depression has set in ( at least it sounds like it to me) The lyrics are not optimistic and they are actually quite sad. I Can see how this album was not intitally liked by their record company because its not your typical Beach Boys Record. It was by far the most mature record they put out and almost a little too serious lyrically. I love this album but To me the album is all about Depression, self doubt, and insecurity. Not a typical Beach Boys Record at all!

Why do the music "elitist" have so little respect for the common fan? Their the ones that keep the artists and DJ's in business.

The average Beach Boy fan quit following their music after Pet Sound, they just didnt like it, but most loves Kokomo.

And yeau, I liked Hee Haw, it was great entertainment, a country laugh in.

I bought my first Beach Boys album in Mono. Played it on a "record player". Been a fan for over 40 years. (Yes that makes me old, F.U. very much) Gee Warner, If you don't like the Mike Love-Bruce Johnston incarnation I guess maybe we could go dig up Dennis and Carl if that would make a better concert. But you know, the last time I saw old Mike and Bruce they themselves sounded great, and had some really good musicians with them. The music sounded like a record instead of "live" but that is how I remember them most coming out of the speaker of my 55 Chevy. Of course, I am a little prejudice because I got to bring them onstage. And while the music was not the "original" (r.i.p.) Beach Boys, they for a short time transported me back to my youth and I f'n loved every minute of it.

Heck, I'm so old, I remember buying mono albums.
And the argument, that if you play a mono record/album on a stereo system, you will ruin the needle.

I may go see the Beach Boys, should bring back a lot of memories, maybe sing along to Kokomo!

Wannabe- I too bought my first BB album in Mono. We are probably around the same age. I just don't think I'll make the trip to a casino to see what's left of the group. Mike Love is pretty much an ass. Bruce Johnston seems like a nice guy, he wrote a few really good BB tunes, and sings and plays well. I have no beef with him. I think we've had this discussion here before, when is a band using an original band name, not really the band anymore?

I'm sure you and the other folks who see this version of the Beach Boys enjoy it immensely, and for that I'm glad. It keeps the music alive, and that's always a good thing. Well, usually always.

Warner, you are mostly right about Mike Love. But, he is not an "Ass" he is an arrogant M.F. But I love the music. I take off my old PD/MD hat, and just relax as a fan. The scary part is to look at the audience sitting around me and ask myself, "Am I really as old these people"?

Heck, maybe you'll get lucky, and one of those 50-60 year old woman will decide to throw her underwear on stage.

Hey, don't knock 50-60 year old women. They are great. And besides, after the lovin, they know what you are talking about when you ramble on about the glory days.

Now i'm curious, again.

Which is worse, being an "ass" or "an arrogant M.F"?

Is this a potatoe, potawto kind of thing?

I didnt knock 50 yr old women, I'm married to one that is approaching that age.

As Ben Franklin said, if your gonna have a mistress, choose an older one, because they are so grateful!

Not that I would do that.

Did anyone see the A&E Biography on the Beach Boys? I liked it. I kind of got the feeling The Wilson's were not a very happy clan. I know I wouldn't get along with Murray.''When I Die'' is one that I find haunting but I like it. It's a complex work. Way back in the Surfer days I never thought later on they could make a work like that. Loved their harmony. Brian liked The Hi-LOS Four Freshmen. Surfin USA Barbra Ann and Kokamo my least faves. Heroes And Villins it's a thin line between love and hate for me on this one BTW, that's a great soul classic I forgot who did it. A thread on old soul anyone?

Lets not forget sen Mccains remake of the Beach Boys/Jan and Dean classis.

Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran!

Couple months ago I finished Peter Ames Carlin's "Catch a Wave". The Rise, Fall and Redemption of the Beach Boy's Brian Wilson. Lots of insight into the Wilson clan. Recommended reading for any Beach Boy fan.

Hey wannabe anychance you could give us some interesting facts that you learned from the book?

I remember scanning GREAT reviews of that book.

Also, just for the record, I'm open to my mind being changed about Pink Floyd. A recent Rolling Stone cover story at least helped me understand, if not accept, more. It was an EXTREMELY well written article. After 5 minutes I was saying " Who in the HELL wrote this? This is INCREDIBLE! "

Dominic Priore, possibly the world's biggest Beach Boys fan, collected a wonderfully comprehensive volume of late 1960s Beach Boys goodies in "Look, Listen, Vibrate, Smile" and I would highly recommend it!

Bruce Johnston is a late-comer, but he was such an integral part of the California sound, it is hard to call him a non-member. I think he is very talented and I also have no beef with him. It should be pointed out that while everyone else was too busy to promote, he was the tireless ambassador of the band.

"God Only Knows" would not be the same without his vocal in the chorus, and the world would suck without "Hey Little Cobra" and "My World Fell Down" and others. Still, much as I enjoy his music, Bruce and the "Smile-killer" will not draw me like a moth. I paid a pretty penny to see Brian, and would "Do It Again" in a heartbeat.

I also liked Hee-Haw. Country legends, cornball humor and deep cleavage is a winning combination. Back in the 1970s, though it was definitely not endorsed by everyone in my family, when I hung out with my Grampa, I never missed it.

Well, Roy Clark was actually pretty good on the guitar, but . . . I'm glad you survived with your senses intact!

The remastered stereo Version of Pet Sounds, Sounds soooo good!
Are any other Beach Boys albums re-released in Stereo? Just curious. I would guess that most stations that play the Beach Boys are playing the Stereo versions of the songs, correct?

Regarding the book, Catch A Wave. Brian was much darker than I had previously thought. Totally insecure. Paranoid and just frickin' weird. But he was a genius. Murry Wilson the dad, was an ego-manic overbearing s.o.b. Little brother Carl, was not given nearly enough credit, he was really the leader of the group after about 1966, although the record company kept Brian as the figurehead to promote record sales. Brian could not be depended on to tour. Sometimes when he did show up, he would just sit at a piano and do nothing, or sing terribly off key. Mike Love was always a hedonistic a-hole. But Love was the one who really wanted to keep the Boys doing the summer fun, hot cars anc chicks kind of thing. Dennis had more talent than he was recognized for having. By the way, Bruce Johnston may be a "new comer" to the Beach Boys, that is, if you call somebody a "newcomer" after 42 years with the band. Read the book, it's good bedtime reading. (of course, if you get a better offer at bedtime, take it. )

I do also own the Dennis Wilson solo album, "Pacific Ocean Blue". That's pretty cool as well. And, two Carl Wilson solo albums. The guy could really sing. One Bruce Johnston. Zero Mike Love.

And we all know of course that Glen Campbell played on tour as a Beach Boy when Brian decided to stay home in the earlier days.

Darrel Dragon, aka "Captain" of Captain and Tenille also was with the band for a time. VAn Dyke Parks wrote most of the lyrics on Smile.

Justin, I think that the melancholy and bittersweet feeling of Pet Sounds is just the most vulnerable parts of Brian bursting through. It showed itself many times before in "Warmth of the Sun," "In My Room" and "Girl Don't Tell Me" -- to name a few. Remember how it was absolutely raw being twenty-three? That is where Brian was when that record came together. I think that being honestly sad is exactly what the Beatles did so well on Beatles For Sale, Help and Rubber Soul. Of course, I am a big fan, so YMMV.

Wannabe, I was, of course, saying, "the new guy" tongue in cheek. I don't think it was my joke either, I'm pretty sure it was Bruce's from an interview. Hey, thanks for the review of the book. I've read quite a few, but they always seemed to dodge important questions -- except the "Landy" book, but that is another discussion entirely. I think Murray slapped Brian on the ear and made him deaf -- anybody else have a theory?

Wannabe -- and everybody else -- what do you think of the Darryl Dragon contributions? The brave Captain was around during the Holland period which I feel is unjustly dismissed by the purists. It is one of those fairly solid moody records like Surf's Up that just kinda gets under your skin.

Chickenjuggler and Warner, right on! I like your lists of Beatles disciples and I can't disagree with a single one. We ought to have a local chapter of the Sloan fanclub. Since XTC was brought up, "Pale and Precious" -- a tune they did as Dukes of Stratosphear and produced by a young John Leckie -- is the greatest faux-Beach Boys song ever!

I gotta add my friends Fernando Viciconte and Jim Basnight to the list of great Beatles influenced songwriters. If you love NW Rock, you might remember Jim from the pioneering powerpop monsters The Moberlys. Both of these fellows are definitely worth catching live!

The Fab influenced list is almost endless. Here's a few more off the top of my head: Cheap Trick, Smithereens, Robyn Hitchcock, The Steppes, The Three O'Clock, Grapes of Wrath, Linda Smith, Simon Joyner, Lida Husik, Richard X. Heyman and all of the Elephant Six Collective. Of course, virtually all of these folks show Brian Wilson's influence too.

Littlesongs, you are truly a music geek.
Richard X. Heyman! "Hey Man!" I can't believe you cited him. I thought I was the only one. What a great one man band.

I'm going to put together a playlist of the kinds of songs we are talking about for a broadcast tonight. Sometimes these songs are the very ones that made me so eager to want to play music for others.

So if you are around your computer later, and want to tune in, send me an email at chickenjuggler@aol.com and I'll reply back with the listening links. I've got some good stuff that a few of us may enjoy and heck, I'm married. What else can I do on a Friday night?

Saw the Beach Boys at Chinook Winds Casino this weekend. They have sadly slipped a notch since I saw them there in 2004. In 2004 the concert really kicked. But this time, Mike Love spent most of the show perched on a stool shaking the tamborine while he let others sing. Bruce Johnston, at least, had a little enthusiasm. But the whole thing lacked spirit. In the end, there was no encore. The band did not bother to come back, and the audience seemed too damn old to clap and stomp enough to bring them back. No doubt they were a bit disappointed that the "Boys" failed to inspire the old feelings of youth in them, and besides, it was past bedtime. Still, it was better than staying home watching the history channel on a Friday night.

Thanks for the update Wannabe. I guess I don't feel bad passing on this one. Ole' Mike should jsut hang it up anyway. Let's not tarnish the image of one of the great bands any further.

Thanks for the review. I wonder if Mikey and Bruce read this thread and it made Love sullen and Johnston energized? :o)

Speaking of Friday night, who had a chance to catch Chickenjuggler's show?

So the Geriatric Boys didn't do so hot??? Not a big surprise, Mike Love is a no good turd and who the heck is Bruce Johnson??? Some bands should just give up! The Beach Boys should have stoped performing a long time ago! No Brian Wilson= No Beach boys.

Actually, Beano, the Beach Boys were really good in concert without Brian. There are probably few among us who ever saw the band with Brian, anyway. Carl sang a lot of Brian's high parts while on the road anyway. I saw them in, I think it was '74, in Portland and they tore the place down. Packed house. But that is when Al Jardine, Carl Wilson, Dennis Wilson, and Bruce Johnston, and some hot sidemen were part of the touring band. By the way, one of the Boy's best songs (at least one of my favorites) is I can hear music, and Friday night they did a nice compliment to the late and great Carl Wilson, who sang lead on that particular song, as well as many others. Has anybody seen the Al Jardine version of the Beach Boys??? I would be curious how Al and his family and friends stack up against the Mike Love version.

The only people that caught Chickenjuggler's show on Friday was a bartender and an increasingly beautiful cocktail server.

( I got a little distracted - ahem. But I thought of some other elemets of a show that I would like to add anyway. Less gin though ).

I don't to plug my station here. If anyone wants to tune in, email me. I'll tell you how.

"Still, it was better than staying home watching the history channel on a Friday night."

Are you sure?

Friday nights, the History channel has been showing the Air combat series, thats pretty good.

And for me to say that the Beach Boys were better than watching "Dog fights" on the history channel Friday nights,is huge. But it was worth another shot to go see the BEach Boys. Hell, it was fun. Had a few shots of Patron and I couldn't have cared less that Brian Wilson was not there. And for "Dog Fights", they're now re running and I've seen 'em all. The graphics are spectacular and really help one understand how those dog fights took place. The exploits of Bud Anderson, Robin Olds, and other pilots of days gone by make one realize that those guys had balls of steel.

Anybody like the National Geographic Channel?? Im hooked, i love it! It looks sooooo nice on my new 48 inch HD flat screen!

History and NG channels are both very good.

But back to the Beach Boys..."Sail On Sailor" was a Northwest hit, but never charted Billboard Top40! I always liked it too.

alan jardine has played in afew shows lately with Brian Wilson

If you are a Beach Boys fan - you HAVE to check out The Besnard Lakes. Use iTunes to listen to samples. Brutally good for those that dig that sound. Slightly more folky - but still strong.

I haven't read this entire thread so it could have already been mentioned, but Mike Love's sister lives in Portland, or at least did at one time. I had a chance to interview Mike's nephew Shane for a radio show I produced a few years ago featuring local talent. The kid has Beach Boys running through his musical veins.

Chris, I heard something along those lines, but I didn't know there was a talented musician in the mix. That is pretty cool. One of the Portland connections is his brother, former-Laker, Stan Love. Also, a bit of a character: http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5285

Paulwalker said, "Sail On Sailor" was a Northwest hit, but never charted Billboard Top40!" I never knew that it wasn't national. KGW played the hell out of that cut late at night and I loved them for it. I bet that would make it one in a tradition of regional hits, like "Salt Lake" for instance.

Because I have trashed Mike mercilessly, I feel it only fair to mention that "All I Wanna Do" from Sunflower is one of my all time favorites and would not be the same without him. Still, he could have treated his own kin better than he treated the mobile studio parked in his yard.

Chickenjuggler, I like them too. The Montreal crowd has been spoiled with an abundance of talent and a market flooded with top analog gear. A good spot to be right now. Wolf Parade was here in town working with some friends of mine not long ago, so I guess that makes us second place. Sacrebleu!

Chickenjuggler, thanks for the tip. I'm all into the new Canadian bands now. We are going to the Arcade Fire show later this month, can't wait!

Tragically Hip, Rufus Wainwright, Tally Hall, New Pornographers

"Funeral" from Arcade Fire was really a gem. It's funny, not many folks cite Godspeed... anymore, but that band was among the first to get folks' attention in Quebec. Look for the SOCAN label of quality! :o)

Does anyone remember Mint Records out of Vancouver, B.C.? The put out the Cub stuff, among other goodies. Some folks moved on to better, if not bigger records. The Lisa Marr Experiment -- from the former thunderbroom of Cub -- is worth seeking out. Though she is no based in L.A., "Beer & Whiskey" is still one of the best Northwest honky-tonk songs ever! She sings, "I bought a man in Reno just to watch you cry..."

Love the Pornographers!

We saw this great fun band from Toronto called The Bicycles. Really entertaining, in a poppy (not the plant) way.

Tragically Hip is one of the greatest band names ever.

Hey, that's a good topic for a new thread!

Does anyone like "Sumahama" from the "LA" album? I think that's an amazing song! It's like if the Beach Boys were around in ancient Japan. "Barbara Ann" was a cover of the Regents 1961 hit.

Not only that, most of the vocals are jan and dean.

Yes Maureen Love used to play the harp at classy places around Portland back in the 80s. Have no idea what she does now. Knew her for several months (co worker at KYTE was good friends with her) and one day she mentioned something about her family. Didn't think much about it unti later when someone explained who her family was....

Speaking of people....anyone know where Janet Day is there days?

A new compilation CD, "The Warmth of the Sun," was released yesterday. It's noteable because it contains some first time (legitimate) stereo mixes. I'm working totally from memory here but I think the new stereo mixes are "All Summer Long," "Let Him Run Wild," "Then I Kissed Her," "Please Let Me Wonder, and "You're So Good To Me." I hope I didn't leave anything out. Also, "Wendy" has a new stereo mix with the vocal mics muted during the organ break to eliminate the cough and studio chatter. I noticed some different sfx at the head end of "California Dreamin" than what I'm accustomed to on the version from Greatest Hits Vol 3.

If you like Beach Boys stereo this one's a keeper.

Kkb- I too met Maureen Love at a Christmas party several years ago at a musicians friends house. It's how I got connected with her son Shane.

Shane told me stories how he and his cousins would sit on the edge of the stage during summer tours with the Beach Boys when he was 9 -10 yrs old, and there would be a crowd of 50,000 people.

I don't understand the concept of a "classic" Beach Boys tune being a legitimate stereo mix. Brian Wilson is deaf in one ear and it was my understanding that because of this fact, all the songs were recorded in mono. Capitol Records later mixed them into "Duophonic".

Semoochie: No, a perfect example was "Little Saint Nick" which was originally recorded in stereo in 1963 but issue in mono on a 45 rpm. In 1964 the song was re-recorded in stereo for "The Beach Boys Christmas Album". For decades the only stereo version was the re-recording without the sleigh bells background. In 1998 Capitol took the original 1963 tracks, assembling them for the first time, making the song true stereo.

Semoochie - I used the term "legitimate" to distinguish officially released stereo mixes from the abundance of homegrown stereo fan mixes that have circulated for years, sourced from session elements boots.

As far as "classic" Beach Boys stereo, I read once that after Brian had finished with the mono mix, engineer Chuck Britz would do a stereo mix on his own. I've always assumed the songs with MIA stereo all these years was probably due to overdubs being added while the mono mix was being made. In those cases any stereo mix from the multi would be incomplete and Britz probably just didn't bother.

Scott you pose an interesting question. Brian is deaf in one ear from what I have read. Maybe this is way over simplified, but couldn't Brian have stood in the studio sound room with his good ear towards the monitors positioned in such a way as to hear a clear difference from a mono mix or stereo?

Or do we need both ears to hear better high and low frequency?

I think that would be a pretty tall order Chris. Without hearing the phantom center channel, which requires both ears, I don't think he could do it. I've read Brian quoted as saying that he preferred producing in mono because his "vision" would translate better to the listener, regardless of the listening equipment or environment. In 1965 I don't think that's an unreasonable position. Wouldn't fly commercially today, but back then I can see his point. On the other hand, I like Chuck Britz's stereo mixes. Only wish he could have done the Lovin' Spoonful's and the Mamas & Papas' stereo mixes!

Thanks Scott. I know I was asking a somewhat extraordinary question but then again Brian's talent is extraordinary.

Going deaf as a musician has to be a very difficult. Reminds of Beethoven’s final performance in Vienna directing the orchestra totally deaf and having the orchestra ending the piece while Ludwig finishes two measures later. Then having an orchestra member come to Beethoven and turn him towards the crowd who rose and instead of clapping waved their hands in appreciation. At least I think that’s how the story goes. Sorry to digress.

Great talent is simply great talent even if one is partially deaf.