The discussion of the "need for a macho Jesus" in the Virginia Tech massacre thread brought this to mind:

A few years ago, I went to a breakfast presentation at a local Baptist church by an Evangelical Christian Army chaplain. In his presentation, the chaplain stated that "Jesus Christ was the most masculine man that ever lived." I would have felt awkward asking the chaplain or any of the people at the church to explain why they see Jesus in this way, so the question just lingered with me.

Then, when I was working at a Christian radio station at the time that _The_Passion_of_the_Christ_ came out, and I think that I might have stumbled on the answer: Accounts of Jesus's whipping and torture prior to his crucifixion say that he quietly took all this abuse without as much as a single complaint. However, there are others who see Jesus as a warrior, either metaphorically or literally, and these people might see this as a more macho characteristic than just taking extreme torture without complaint.

I am still confused. Is the idea of a macho Jesus universally accepted among Christians? What aspects of machismo do advocates of a macho Jesus see in Jesus? Does the concept of a macho Jesus fulfill a psychological need for some people?

"Is the idea of a macho Jesus universally accepted among Christians?"

Certainly not, especially on this board. Here, He is often described in terms that essentially lead one to see Jesus as neutered, mild-mannered, passive and milquetoast.

To those who confuse following Christ with living the life of a wimpish man, I suggest the book "No More Christian Nice Guy" by southern Oregon radio host Paul Coughlin who states:

"When I brought the fear-based passivity of my youth, combined with the false ideal of Mild Jesus into my marriage, fireworks exploded," Paul explains.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/2006/002/13.38.html

http://www.christianniceguy.com/

In our culture, it's often easiest to simply go the passive route and suggest it's more "Christian." Mr. Coughlin disagrees and provides eye-opening insights. Scripture does not support our living small, dishonest lives.

Herb

macho or meek? if religious folks on this planet can't even decide if jesus is one or the other, it gives even more compelling evidence supporting the possiblity that Jesus being the "son of God" is nothing but pure bunk.

The troll should fall on his sword and quit turning Jesus into his personal image. If Jesus can easily be turned into one's personal image then nobody will mind if I turn Jesus into Agnostic Jesus, beheading anyone claiming that God exists (or doesn't exist for that matter.)

Have a nice day.

I heard a Christian radio show where they were discussing how church is usually too feminine for guys. I can't remember much of what they did to change it, except the preacher brought his fishing gear to his sermon and then talked about fishing and hunting for awhile before he got to Jesus being a fisher of men. The women in the broadcast said it wasn't their kind of sermon but it didn't matter because they'd go to church anyway. They said that this macho he-man sermon style brought in their sons and husbands.

Please do not lump "all Christians" into the same pot. We have many disparate views across the whole body of believers. So, as you will see as this thread goes, there will be many differing opinions.

Herb and I, for instance, see things differently, yet both consider ourselves Christians.

Touche' Warner.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people expect all Christians to think identically.

For as the body is one, and hath many members and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:12-31


Herb

Right on Warner! We probably have some different viewpoints as well.

Herb-where two or three are gathered in His name…you’re likely to get 2-3 different opinions.

Before getting to the meat of my comments here’s something to ponder. The New Testament writings were "done in the street language of the day, the idiom of the playground and marketplace." (Eugene Peterson)

You had formal and informal Greek language of the day. Formal language was used to write philosophy and history, government decrees and epic poetry. Informal language or routine - shopping lists, family letters, bills and receipts - it was written in the common, informal idiom of everyday speech, street language.

Just looking at Jesus down to earth stories and easy association with common people gets rid of that more stately or ceremonial language. So those who translated "The Message" in the early years wanted to use the most common language to whom they were translating. To get it right. It's not refined language but rough and earthy with many unexpected revelations about God's presence.

Now with that said:

Jesus is probably the most balanced man I have ever read about. His human side, getting angry, being frustrated with his disciples, messing up the temple, getting into people's faces, (mainly those who held a religious position) all had a reason. He didn't do those things because he was abusive or in a drunken stupor...those moments had a purpose.

Jesus was deeply passionate about his purpose and surrounded himself with others who showed those passions as well.

Saying Jesus isn't a wimp, and using the phrase "No More Mr. Nice Guy" are bothersome to me because they imply to me a Jesus who is not balanced and can't relate to the common person. Probably my issue more than anything.

I can appreciate Coughlin’s viewpoint. He made a change that was needed in his marriage and in his life. He most likely has the marriage he and his wife have always wanted and are finding a caring community to support them.

I have been blessed for nearly 19 years in a marriage that simply gets better and better because we started in the right place. Christ was at the center.

" Follow me...if you want to live! " - Jesus Christ.

...and The Terminator.

Chris, Herb, Chicken, et al;

This is the beauty of all creation. We have been given gifts. Gifts of brains, choice, forgivness, and life. We can think, discuss, argue, and think again. What a wonderful place we live in. Freedom of expression is embodied right here in this forum.

Isn't that a common denominator for all of us?

Absolutely!

(lifts glass of something good to that!)

Thank you all for coming here to this place most every day. I, for one, would seriously miss your company.

"I have been blessed for nearly 19 years in a marriage that simply gets better and better because we started in the right place. Christ was at the center."

Amen to that, Chris. Plus, like me, you married way up.

Herb

"This is the beauty of all creation. We have been given gifts. Gifts of brains, choice, forgivness, and life. We can think, discuss, argue, and think again. What a wonderful place we live in. Freedom of expression is embodied right here in this forum."

Absolutely.

Herbert M.

Herb writes:

To those who confuse following Christ with living the life of a wimpish man, I suggest the book "No More Christian Nice Guy" by southern Oregon radio host Paul Coughlin who states:

"When I brought the fear-based passivity of my youth, combined with the false ideal of Mild Jesus into my marriage, fireworks exploded," Paul explains.



Would you please quote someone BESIDES a radio talk show host. Next time, I'll tell you what Bill Maher thinks, you'll love that.

Hey, this is a radio forum. I figured once in a rare while it might be appropriate. Skip your coffee today?

Herb

The closest I've ever come to understanding what Jesus might have been like is he embodies all that is good within us.

This is not macho, wimpy, etc... It is simply true behavior without any agenda other than to raise those around him to some higher existance than otherwise would be the case.

Saying he is macho, weak, etc... is nothing more than an attempt to leverage his being in such a way as to further justify ones own.

Wouldn't facing death and torture as Jesus did be enough to demonstrate courage, something that would make Jesus macho enough?

Yes.
Good point.

Herb