Unforgivable?
Minor bump in the road?
Ratings ploy that's backfiring?

...or care at all?!

PS... we'd love to get DJFrresh's input.

its just talk radio . . . about as significant as a sewing club's announcement of switching thimbles from brass to aluminum.

"Unforgivable, minor bump in the road, ratings ploy that's backfiring?"

How about all of the above.

Prediction: He won't lose WFAN, but he might lose MSNBC.

It depends ( not that my input is going to sway his bosses - but ) is it enough to fire someone for being insensitive and stupid? Just because black people were the butt of the " joke "?

OR

Does he actully feel ill will towards black people and thinks they are worthy of being demeaned? That is to say, if he is racist, then yes, he should go. If you believe his apology is sincere, then no.

Michael Richards didn't convince me that he really feels black people are equal. So I'm glad he got what he got. Imus, on the otherhand, doesn't make me feel like I am listening to a racist when he speaks. I believe he knows it was a mistake and will continue to show that it was a mistake. But he got careless and sloppy. So that is what it is to me.

Intent plays a big enough part of it all for me to not be so sure that he is anything but a fool for saying it.

I think the following criteria is a decent way to decide - as quoted from a favorite author of mine -

Does the statement propagate false belief about a targetted group?

Is the comment malicious or intended to wound?

Does the comment represent the considered opinion of the person who said it?

http://gladwell.typepad.com/gladwellcom/

How come you can only joke about certain types of people, rednecks and blondes.

Seems every other group has a very thin skin.

I agree, careless and sloppy for sure. His "sidekicks" were actually much worse, if you listen to it again.

He apologized, it sounded sincere to me, I think he felt bad.

Shows you, don't go for the cheap joke so often.

That's part of the question. But would you give a pass to someone who jokes about black people AND is a racist?

Sorry - that was meant for Nwokie.

How do you know their a racist?
Like an old drill sgt of mine, he called everyone bad names. Weither or not he really didnt like any specific group, I dont know.

If someone only makes jokes about black people, white people, gays jews I would say thats bad.

In this case Mr Imus was making an observation, both schools had black players, but those on the one team, did look pretty scragley.

Nwokie - Would you give a pass to someone who jokes about black people AND is a racist?

I hadn't even heard about this and had to Google the story to find out. Here's the first link I found (yes, E-Online):

http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=f75958fe-1b6e-4e71-b58c-99ff5 8f1d716

Honestly, I don't quite understand what the big deal is. He called the members of the Rutgers women's Basketball team "nappy-headed hos." Yeah, so what? Imus made his career on being controversial and edgy. What do you expect from the guy?

It's incredibly stupid for Jesse Jackson to be out there calling for Imus's firing - that makes people like me want to support Imus all the more (I don't even listen to Imus anymore - is he still on the air in Portland?)

Andrew

Well, I guess I was partially right...MSNBC has suspended the simulcast for two weeks. I doubt they really had any choice but to do SOMETHING. Whether it will go beyond that is anyone's guess. I believe his NY audience will forgive and forget, thus WFAN will consider it just a minor bump.

EDIT: CBS (WFAN) just issued the same two week suspension.

Mr. Imus is often very mean to people.

If Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson disagree with that kind of language, and I don't blame them if they do, then they should hold everyone who speaks that way accountable, in addition to Mr. Imus and not be so selective in their outrage.

Herb

If his show survives this, It will be interesting to hear how different it will be.

I think it may be difficult for him to get a lot of his guest "journalsist" to come back.

PC run amuck!

To quote Glenn Frey and Don Henley;

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

So what. He called them nappy-headed hos. Ooooooo, I'm telling Mom what you said.

As Nwokie said "How come you can only joke about certain types of people, rednecks and blondes."

Add to that list Christians, Catholics, and Baptists etc. But DON'T you DARE say anything or joke about Muslims.

I'm a balding, fat, 51 year old white guy.

Do you think I could get a lawyer to take my case if Mr. Imus had called me a fat, bal-headed honkey.

I repeat;

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it.

Would Imus still have a job if he said that about Obama or Jesse Jackson? (Al Sharpton is DQ'd obviously). No.

Hey! Where's Marconi?

Herb writes:

Mr. Imus is often very mean to people.

Oh? What if Mr. O'Reiley said it???????

Mean is mean.

Mr. O'Reilly can sometimes be mean.

But if Mr. O'Reilly wants to be mean to judges who have let pedophiles and murderers off with light sentences, would you prefer Mr. O'Reilly go soft on them so they can commit more heinous acts?

Those Rutgers athletes did nothing wrong, hence Mr. Imus being mean with no redeeming effect.

Herb

I hear rappers, and othe black and hispanic people refering to women as ho's all the timw, so how come when a white guy says it, the libs want to lynch him?

Nwokie, because there is a double standard. Do you think that double standard should be fixed or embraced?

Nwokie, do you think what Imus said was racist? Yes or no.

No I dont think it was racist, otherwise he would have said it about both teams.

He was making a comment about the appearance of some members of one team, who did look scrufy.

Jessie Jackson has no right to criticize him either. Jackson has so many anti-semetic remarks on record, including calling NYC "heimey town"

In America, it is alright to pick on anybody you want to pick on, but it is with the understanding that you are prepared for a reaction. If his comment was said in a bar near the campus, he would have been roughed up and left in a dumpster.

Imus is amusing to folks who buy his cowboy pose and love his Tom Baker haircut. Perhaps the team should challenge him to a game of hoops and watch ol' Don drag his oxygen tank up and down the court. The girls are winners, regardless of their appearance, or the perception of antique white men.

Dumb? Yes. Jimmy the Greek kind of dumb? Almost. He deserved the suspension and I hope he spends it with his family. Perhaps the "frizzy haired bigot" can explain the logic behind "nappy haired ho" to us when he gets back.

Hey, check out Coulter defending Imus on the Fox Web site. She focuses on him calling the girls "hos" and completly ignores the racist aspect of "nappy headed."

Typical Coulter, makes her agrument by only using the facts she likes.

If Imus goes is Lars far behind?

Yes. Quite.

I don't think it was racist either. It was rude and from what littel I caught of their own press conference, they made some good points. None of those points lead me to racism though.

I bet they're just fucking sick of that kind of talk. It's demeaning.

Then again, I don't look to Imus for some sort of moral compass.

Just in...It's over for Imus at MSNBC.

This is getting much larger than I thought it would. Some interesting dynamics are coming into play now that weren't, before, when it was a lesser story.

Interesting.

>>How come you can only joke about certain types of people, rednecks and blondes.
>>
>>Seems every other group has a very thin skin.

Have rednecks or blonds had a long-standing problem of crosses being burned on their lawns, being banned from businesses simply because of the color of their necks or hair, or being lynched outright?

Some people are thin-skinned with good reason, that being a long history of mistreatment far worse than being the butt of a few jokes on Saturday Night Live.

Your analogy doesn't fly.

It was an unnecessary and inappropriate comment, but now things have gone a little overboard. The two who began really fanning the flames, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, have some real baggage of their own. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black (certainly no pun intended).

Market forces are a bitch. When major advertisers start bailing out, for whatever reason, it's bad news. The reasons don't need to make sense, either. It's just economics. If there's no demand to buy spots on Imus, and it's bad for the brand, who cares what was in his heart? Let's face it, ladies and gentlemen, that's life in the big city.

Whether Al Sharpton is a man of integrity or not, it doesn't matter. This sort of development is good for "Brand Al Sharpton," and he gets called by all the usual suspects to say fresh new versions of predictable things he's said before.

"SHARPTON VOWS MORE: 'It is our feeling that this is only the beginning. We must have a broad discussion on what is permitted and not permitted in terms the airwaves'..."

Yep, here it comes. What we really need in this world is Al Sharpton telling us what we can and can't say. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile.

I, too, think things have gone overboard, however, the upside to this is the public education on the matter. Having this topic aired out in the national media, -- TV, radio and print -- may encourage people to be a wee bit nicer -- especially shock jocks.

In the last election, Mr Imus support of several demo candidates, might have made the difference, wonder who he will support, now that hes been the victom of political correctness run amock?

Also how will the backlash against sharpton and jackson affect the upcomming election?

The best "censorship" is the off knob on your radio. That goodness I don't listen to any of that crap talk radio.

I'd say Imus's beef would be not with any Democratic politicians (who had ZERO to do with his cancellation - and I don't count Sharpton or Jackson since they aren't ELECTED officials) but rather, with the advertisers to his show who pulled out and made it hard for CBS and NBC to continue (hard to make money on a radio and TV show when you can't sell ads!!!).

Now who were those companies?

Procter & Gamble
General Motors
American Express
Staples

According to BuyBlue.org, these four companies gave to Democrats and Republicans in the last election cycle in this proportion:

Procter & Gamble - 79% Republicans, 21% Democrats
General Motors - 74% Republicans, 26% Democrats
American Express - 55% Republicans, 45% Democrats
Staples - 86% Republicans, 14% Democrats

So my guess is that, knowing how all these Red companies bailed on Imus, he's probably sorry he didn't do more for Democrats in the past...

Andrew

In case you don't know, Imus's show is no more. CBS just fired him.

He's a bit too popular to remain off the air long. I wonder who will pick him up?

Uh, yeah, Skep, that's sort of what I was responding to in my post. Those companies are the advertisers who caused NBC and CBS to pull the plug on Imus.

No broadcast is going to TOUCH Imus now. He's old and poison. His best bet might be satellite radio.

Andrew

Not so easy there...another major network won't pick him up with this baggage. Even satellite is not a sure thing because with the upcoming merger between Sirius and XM, they don't want controversy right now. He may be off for awhile.

The other question to ask, Paul, is who would go ON Imus's show after this? Some presidential candidates today (McCain, Giuliani) said they would go back on his show because he had apologized. Yet when push comes to shove, I wonder how many really will go on his show in the future if Imus ever does go back on the air. Imus's popularity in the last decade or two has largely been due to the high-profile guests he's been able to get. Who will want to go on his show now though and be labeled a racist-supporter? (Unfairly or otherwise?)

Andrew

You folks who are in radio will soon have the opportunity to check with Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson about what you can and can't say on the air. And you have been worrying about government censorship all along. Wrong threat.

I'm thinking I might start up some grassroots groups to complain to advertisers about the shows I find offensive. Shoot, to be fair to everyone, I'd sign petitions even for shows I like and listen to. Let's get 'em ALL off the air, Air America included!!! It's high time we cleaned up the airwaves. No more offensive material! Hey, even Clark Howard must have offended SOMEONE, somewhere, right? OFF THE AIR!!! Then we can have more jazz music on the air - what everyone really wants, anyway.

Andrew

I have always been a believer that radio will survive for many decades to come. My thought process is beginning to change. The industry may be destroying itself with reactions like this. I'm not defending Imus in any way, but if this keeps up, radio will become even more irrelevant than it currently is.

Andrew, there is a group that among other things, sends out to their subscribers notices about "trash" TV. I don't remember ever seeing anything about radio programs, but they may have targeted them too.

They usually target the advertisers that advertise on trash programs. Sometimes on the over the air networks, sometimes on the cable/satellite networks.

They also send letters to the networks expressing displeasure with the garbage in some programming.

They way it works is that they send their subscribers an email with a letter in it. You can add your own comments if you like. Then you put your name and email address on it and they send it to the offenders.

If you are interested, their web site is;
www.onemilliondads.com and for Mom's, www.onemillionmoms.com

No thanks!

Better to take some personal responsibility, accept that what you consider offensive is not likely to be universally offensive. (and it shouldn't be)

So, exercise your choice not to listen and encourage your kids to do the same. No matter what you do, that stuff is out there. Face it head on, compete as a parent and get the job done, or work in a futile attempt to live in a bubble?

I'll take the work over the bubble anyday.

In this day and age, I think that the people who try to live in bubbles find that those bubbles are easily popped.

This discussion does bring up some very important questions about what is considered proper public decorum in today's society. For example:

1) What is considered racist? Is poking fun at a physical characteristic racist?

2) How (and why) are different types of people held to different standards over what they say?

3) What is considered sexist?

4) Should we be working towards holding everyone to the same level of accountabilty over his/her remarks?

5) Should we also hold people accountable for being demeaning towards other identifiable groups of people: i.e. the overweight, specific religious groups, specific nationalities, people with poor social skills, people with certain political ideas, etc.

6) If we tighten up on expression that could offend any of the above, what are the social consequences?

andrew, I wasn't referring to you specifically, but it sure looks that way! sorry!

Reading the O's story today about KXL and why the PD fired Imus makes Tim-the-PD (I momentarly forget his last name) look like he's a hypocrite. If fact he is one. Keeping Savage on cuz he generates more revenue even though one could argue Save is far more offensive than Imus.

This is an issue that Condoleezza Rice should keep her nose out of. She has just lowered herself a few notches by getting into something this nonsensical.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyid=2007-04 -13T215538Z_01_N13229123_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-RACE-IMUS-RICE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I agree. But now that Rice opened that door, is she gonna comment on Savage?

I'm noticing African-American women of stature are sounding off about this - I imagine they feel obligated. But I agree, Rice just sounds like another voice in the chorus, but what flack would she catch if she *didn't* address it?

Have we heard from Oprah, Whitney Houston or Eartha Kitt yet?

What about Rush Limbaugh referring to Barak Obama and Halley Barry as "Hafricans?" No doubt Rush's sponsors will stick with him no matter what Jesse and Al do. Since Rush already got fired from ABC's Monday Night Football a few years ago after saying Donovan McNabb was being treated specially because he was black, we know that Rush's sponsors don't care if he makes racist-sounding comments or not. But Imus - sorry, pal, you are being held to a different standard.

Andrew

Andrew2, no biggie, but Rush was actually a commentator on ESPN's pre-game Sunday Night Football when he made those comments and resigned. But your point is well taken, there seem to be multiple double-standards with this story, and it is beginning to really grate on me.