Did anyone see their exchange last week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8&mode=related&search=
It was great. I was waiting for some punches to thrown. Both deserve a good punch in the face for a variety of things that had nothing to do with their conversation.

Hard to choose a side in that fight.
They are both losers.

They are both right.

Rivera is more right though.

Shit though, man. My heart rate went up watching that.

Could it have been played up for ratings? I reall have no interest in watching O'Reilly or Rivera at this point.

Andrew

I'm with you Andrew. O'Reilly is so self-righteous and Rivera is simply scum to me.

Youtube views: approaching 140,000.

"adding comments have been disabled for this video"

Rivera reveals something interesting here - the capacity to process information rationally. But then you have to ask, why has he not been exhibiting this trait throughout his career? His early career had promise, then after Al Capone's vault it was a nosedive. This emergence of a thoughful, rational Geraldo just makes me angry for all the years of junk journalism he has delivered.

O'Reilly is just dysfunctional - always has been, always will be.

This is like the Portland illegal immigrants a few years ago, that were stopped several times by Portland police, and let go, then they raped and murdered a woman.

If they had been thrown out of the country, that wouldnt have happened.

Illegal immigrants have already shown their predisposed to break the law.

Perhaps Geraldo only appears thoughtful and rational when seated next to O'Reilly.

"Illegal immigrants have already shown their predisposed to break the law."

Did you watch the clip? It was stated that illegal immigrants have one of the lowest incarceration rates of any group. In short, percentage-wise they break the law less often than the groups that you or I are in (aside from having broken immigration laws). And please don't say "but we are here legally" because NO ONE has the right to break the law, citizen or not.

According to your thinking, we should be really angry about people who cheat on their taxes and then drive drunk, rape, etc. because if we had enforced the tax laws and put those people in jail, the subsequent crime wouldn't have happened.

Sorry, that's a very lame argument in favor of tougher tax laws.

Amus: "Perhaps Geraldo only appears thoughtful and rational when seated next to O'Reilly."

Sadly, true.

Hey, anyone remember O'Reilly as a KATU anchor in the 80's? I think he stayed for the proverbial "cup of coffee"...

based on previous commentary in this forum, I don't think anyone has fond memories of O'Reilly's tenure at KATU.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html

the Capone vault was Geraldo's "Jump the Shark" moment.

It is too bad these two have any airtime at all, but for once, it was nice to see Geraldo with fire in his belly and not up his nose. They ought to team up and open a dusty vault full of dildos for our collective amusement. News? News? What the heckfires is news?

So Nwokie, you support Bill's TV position then, right?

Is that why you cited that story?

Actually , I think Mr O'reiley is kind of wimpy on this issue.

I've always been for landmines on the border, with appropriate warning signs.

Or maybe thats a good way to dispose of Nuclear waste, just build a trench on the border and pour it in.

"I've always been for landmines on the border, with appropriate warning signs."

I bet you can get some in German really cheap.

Landmines are cheap here, but the ones in germany were to keep people in.

We want to keep them out, which has been a legitimate goal of every country , since thge nation state was first started.

As long as Mexico can use the US for a pressure relief, they will never take actions to fix their society.

And sadly, as long as there are employers over here who want to keep the cost of labor low by increrasing the supply of low wage laborers, they'll keep on coming.

How about mandatory deportation for anyone knowingly hiring an illegal?

Actually, the ones in Germany were presented to the people as being for their own good and to keep outsiders from entering. Once erected, any wall can work both ways. Has anyone thought of helping Mexico become the kind of place where a person could live and work?

I say hit the employers hard. A minimum $500,000 or $1,000,000 fine per illegal alien.

What amazes me is that there is ANY discussion at all about the issue.

The first word in "Illegal Alien" says it all.

just like Illegal Download or Illegal Gambling, right?

I agree Bill. Instead of making uninvited guests bear the brunt of punishment, it ought to be distributed evenly between the exploited and exploiter.

Any fifteen minutes spent watching what we EID locals called the "Grand Avenue Employment Center" and you will see a whole lot of big diesel pickup trucks pull up and hire these fellows.

They like the idea of grabbing a few folks, underpaying or stiffing them, and dumping them back in Portland. I say hire a real hand and pay him what he is worth, but what do I know, I'm a city slicker.

Edselehr, yep. Illegal is illegal.

There are different levels of offenses, but it's illegal just the same.

For example, take speeding. Legally, 1 MPH over the limit is breaking the law, but I believe in the "speed limit + 9" rule. Granted, it's my rule not the laws! I'm willing to take my chances and if I get caught, I'll pay the fine.

On the other hand, I won't let my kids do any illegal music downloads. First off, I refuse to allow any peer to peer software on any of my computers, legal or not. Second, if they download the song, they have to pay for it.

That's my 2¢ worth.

Question, how does an employer know someone is an illegal. The illegal knows he/she is an illegal.

If a prospective employee presents a social security card and one other ID, you cant question it.

Yes Bill, illegal is illegal, but sometimes laws are poorly conceived, or just don't work.

Take the school zone law passed a legislature ago. Remember the weird time zone exceptions, the "20mph at all times" situations, etc? The moment those laws went into effect the people of the state let Salem know that it was a bonehead way to deal with the issue of school zone safety. Well intentioned, made sense on paper, but didn't work in the real world.

I think that's what we have going with immigration right now. The idea of setting landmines or fences to keep them out is simplistic and unworkable. Agribusiness wants them to come here. Service employers want them to come here. Nanny placement services want them to come here. And the immigrants want to come here and work for those people. Those are strong factors that are hard to overcome.

Are they taking the jobs of citizens? Perhaps...if all 12 million illegals left today, are there 12 million citizens willing and able to step into those all those jobs? Frankly, I doubt it.

Nwokie touches on one of the many issues of trying to curb illegal immigration, but there are many others. I'm not saying they all get blanket amnesty - I'm not saying open up the borders - I'm not saying build a 30 foot wall (embedded 30 feet into the ground to stop tunneling). All I know is that the answers become more elusive the more you understand all the dynamics of the situation.

Edselehr, I have no issue with anyone (except terrorists) coming to the US. You know "Give me your tired, your poor"....etc.

Just do it legally and pay taxes like the rest of us do.

If the Agribusiness, Service Business and others want them here and are willing to hire them, that's fine, as long as they do it above board.

One of the main issues is that you can sit on your ass and collect welfare, aid to dependent children and food stamps and make more than those other jobs pay.

What incentive does anyone have to get off welfare? But that is a whole different thread!

You're skirting the reality of the situation. Fine, we do all the things you say regarding new immigrants. What about the 12 million here now?

Have them fill out some paperwork and give them citizenship? That's basically amnesity.

Do we ship them all out then form a line for readmittance?

Do we throw them all in jail for illegally immigrating? They have committed a crime - what punishment should they suffer? American is already the country with the highest incarceration rate.

Many are paying taxes now through payroll deduction. Many illegals get away with not paying taxes - just like many American citizens that avoid paying taxes. If you want to start talking about contributing to society through taxes, we need to start talking about corporations, deductions for the wealthy, etc. - nonpaying illegals are a minor part of that problem.

You talk about welfare, but that can only be collected by people that can prove citizenship - I doubt there are many illegals that draw welfare. For them to get money, they have to work. Because of this,they often have a better work ethic than a typical American, who has access to food stamps.

Again, a complex issue with no simple answers.

nwokie sez: "This is like the Portland illegal immigrants a few years ago, that were stopped several times by Portland police, and let go, then they raped and murdered a woman."

Not to be confused with actual legal residents who were stopped a few times by the police, maybe even arrested, and spent time in jail, and released, then raped and murdered a woman.

Big difference, the illegals shouldnt have been here to begin with. Libs just cant understand that illegal immigrants are by definition illegal, getting rid of them wouldnt stop all crime, but it would cut back on it a lot, freeing police to handle criminals that are here legally.

"criminals that are here legally"

An ironic-sounding phrase, to be sure.

Wouldn't adding a solid citizenship check to a few core documents fix the majority of this?

I'm ok with more Americans. We can use bigger numbers always. I'm not so ok with people just hanging out, leveraging assistance programs.

Not a citizen, or not here on a valid visa? No drivers license. Without that, gaining admission to other things is very difficult, as is getting to and from work.

Of course, without the cheap labor the illegals provide, our economy wouldn't be as robust (relatively speaking of course, with this being the Bush era) and there will be less funds available for cops to keep an eye on the legal criminals.

Anyway, I think we've a bigger crime problem with Trailer Park Criminals. Lord knows our afternoon television programming is filled with these TP criminals.

[I know, lets deport them to Idaho! Wait, Idaho is part of the U.S. Umm . . . KSKD, ideas?]

Man, I don't know...

I agree with this generally. I've been doing the non-scientific grocery store, "who has the oregon trail card?" study. A little casual conversation reveals a lot...

A surprising number of them are TP types! (yes there are plenty of illegals using them too, which is why I want the citizenship check. That one is easy.)

The most obvious solution that comes to me is to put those convicted to work. Hard fricking work, combined with in your face education and motivation. Do not send them to jail, just to sit on their ass and learn more criminal tricks!

Said work should add serious value that can be leveraged to help pay for the social programs. I've no problem with these as any of us could find ourselves needing help at any time. Heck, I almost did over recent medical issues. Might still! It's not over just yet.

So, we get these people to produce things and or services that would otherwise be a cost burden. Yeah, it's gonna compete with somebody. Tough titty, or perhaps artifically inflate the price somewhat to allow for robust competition. All depends on just what work is done.

But, at the end of the day, some work and education must be done, or the TP cycle of horror will only continue.

Don't let 'em out, until they reach some level of understanding either.

I think it would cost us in the shorter term, but the payoff in 10 years has the potential to be huge.

Most people that live in trailer parks, are from the lower economic area, and most of them are pretty good people. Just because they dont have a lot of money doesnt make them bad people. A lot of snobs on this board evidently.

And not all trailer parks are cheap either.

Are we not talking about a specific kind of criminal, that happens to be common?

That's where my post was aimed, not at the ordinary people who just happen to be living in a trailer park.