http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070309/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

NO! Democrats have stuffed the bill too much. It IS opportunistic. If they really think they have no chance at all these other issues unless they tack it on with Iraq - I'm disappointed that they hold themselves in such low regard.

You know what I wanted? I wanted to fix things. ONE. THING. AT. A. TIME.

They are important issues. Why can't they get them through on their own? It belittle ALL the issues when you treat them like this. CRAP!

Geeze. What the fuck can I do except trust them to do what they claimed they would do? It's awfully early to be pulling this shit.

It's an amazingly sick political game. They know Bush will veto it if it ever gets passed, which it won't. They want to use the veto to stuff their political canon.

Schumer, who is a grinning idiot (watch him on news bytes if you don't believe me), has said the Democrats are going to throw one anti-war bill after another at Bush.

As you watch this, you'll begin to understand why Al-Quida has thrown their support behind the Dems and can't wait for them to take over D.C. completely.

Yeah, al Qaeda sure can't wait for the Democrats to take over so that America's military will be directed against *THEM* and not in some unwinnable Iraqi civil war. I'm sure al Qaeda is disappointed that the Democratic congress is finally going to pass the 9/11 commission recommendations. But they are probably not too worried because they know Bush will likely veto it.

Andrew

"As you watch this, you'll begin to understand why Al-Quida has thrown their support behind the Dems and can't wait for them to take over D.C. completely."

I'm comforted to know that Bush and Company were there when America had its worst attack on its own soil. I'm comforted by how the GOP wants to put more troops in harms way without a clear exit strategy. I'm comforted by how many of our allies have pulled back their support of this war. I'm comforted to know that Bush and Company have helped establish more reasons for terrorists to be active using Iraq as their place of training when none existed before.

Deane- screw the dems. What do they know. Al-Qaeda loves the GOP because without them none of this would have been possible.

It was only the worst attack during Bush time cause they didnt get the job done correctly during Clintons time

Did they get the job done correctly during the first eight months of Bush's presidency? No. Condi Rice and Dick Cheney paid little attention to terrorism and any al Qaeda threat during this time, despite pleadings from Richard Clarke and George Tenant. Tenant even popped in on Condi Rice (then head of the NSC) in the summer of 2001, asking for an emergency meeting because he was worried about an impending al Qaeda attack. How much attention did this wind up getting from Bush and Cheney and the NSC during this time? Very little.

But let's blame Clinton - he didn't get the job done correctly. Bush gets a pass because he's a Republican and we'd rather blame Clinton.

Andrew

What a cop out statement.

Clinton was obsessed with terrorism. He talked with GW after his inaguration and emphasized it with him giving him many papers on the subject with Clinton's own personal notes. William J. wanted to make sure GW understood the seriousness of what Clinton had experienced and what he knew at the time. GW didn't take it serious enough.

.

Yes, the Democrats are screwing a good thing up by putting everything and the kitchen sink into this bill. So, instead of being able to take credit for taking care of our troops, then taking care of our farmers and then taking care of Katrina victims, and then et cetera, they will only get to say, "he vetoed a bill" and that does them no damn good at all. Yes, these are the same folks I remember, sincere as heck, but getting little done at all.

The fact is, neo-cons, your cause was helped greatly by terrorism. In fact, without terrorism, one could argue that a questionable election would still be questionable, domestic spying bills would be laughed at as unconstitutional, scandals would have been front page and this administration would look as boring and tepid as a long piss. Al Qaeda and the shrub both benefited so much from 9/11, they could almost be teammates. Clinton did not use the 1993 attack as a backdrop for racist drivel, hysterical reactionary legislation or as a wedge between Americans.

Clinton had a policy in place, experts to back it up and it was ready to go. For whatever reason, and heaven knows there are a few, this administration chose to ignore the warnings, did not react to the warnings, and, like it or not, embraced the terrorists. Whether is was out of stupidity, or out of collusion, only time will tell the full story. Hard as it is for you all to swallow, President-elect Al Gore would have been prepared for, and may have, believe it or not, prevented 9/11. In fact, 9/11 or not, we might even be a nation at peace.

See? I rest my case - not as strongly as I have it in my mind - but close enough. We can't agree on ANYthing!

What the Hell are we going to DO about this? Are we now at the point ( and i'm just going to talk like I feel for the moment - apologies to those who can't see/hear my point becuse of the cuss words ) that we just become a society that says " FUCK YOU Republicans! You are idiots on EVERY level. You are stupid, paranoid, humorless hypocrites! " and fucking smash and grab in the very way they have been accused of?

It is the ULTIMATE hypocrisy. So WHAT if they did it ( if you even feel that way and can support it. I do not care. ) We are talking about NOW. RIGHT DAMNED NOW.

Can anyone on EITHER SIDE deal with the now? Or is it all just a game of payback?

Is there ANYONE out there that can swallow their pride, take their respective lumps for past blunders and admit that they are guilty of every single thing they have ever accused their " opponents " of being and for GOD'S sake LEAD! They are all becoming a bunch of whining babies.

Agendas aside, the only person I have seen consistiently address this is Lou Dobbs. If you can get down to the core and have the extreme patience to wade through his leanings, he's got a point: They do NOTHING for us anymore. NOTHING!

Grrr.

It's the stuff of revolution, coup and anarchy, man.

Call your representative and your two senators and let them know how you feel about this if it bothers you so much.

Andrew

OK. I will. Is that the most a person can do anymore? I agree it's a good start. But is it really enough, in your opinion? Does it work?

Or am I just going to get dismissed as " mistaken "? Maybe I am mistaken. It wouldn't be the first time.

" It was only the worst attack during Bush time cause they didnt get the job done correctly during Clintons time."

I believe that to be a lie. Just for the record.

Chickenjuggler, I gotta say that Andrew has suggested a fine salve for the frustration. Believe it or not, our e-mail Democracy is alive and thriving. I have found many of my representatives at least responsive, and some even insist on replying personally. Sure, my city and state legislators are easier to be in touch with, but even in our nation's Capitol, they respond. You see, being off in the bubble, they often live under the impression that regular computer use by an articulate fellow or lady, equals a concerned wealthy or powerful constituent.

Here's a starter kit: May I suggest thanking Senator Gordon Smith for his position on the war? He is a damn good Republican who could probably use a nice letter right about now. May I suggest chastising Peter DeFazio for tacking on a timber subsidy to the bill that pissed you off? He is a damn good Democrat and could use a kick in the butt right about now. Believe me, these fellows know the way and want a good nudge from the rest of us to keep them honest.

I assume the President still has line-item veto power? If so, I assume he would cut out the other stuff and sign the gutted bill.

Nah, this is Dubya we're talking about. He can't find his ass with both hands.

>>>"I assume the President still has line-item veto power?"

When did the President get this power?

Yeah, he wants it badly enough to pretend he has it with signing statements... I know it's not the same thing, but it makes him feel better --I know it. Maybe he gets a stiffy on those particularly worrysome ones!

Chicken, making the phone call is a biggie. Do it. Better, take a trip to Salem, enter the Capital building and go see some of the staffers. I've done this on an effort to get Oregon to consider Open Source software. Worked with legislators, interested citizens, testified before committee (written in my case that day), and worked the staffers over on the issue.

You can go watch the legislative body do it's thing, see it happen and get to know who they are.

These connections are empowering and they can matter. It's also easy, but do wear a nice suit when you go. It's dumb, but perception is reality with these folks.

Another thing you can do is hold others firmly to matters of reason. Give them tolerance, but press firmly on contradictions, lies and manupulations.

If more people did these things, it would be one hell of a lot more difficult for the current crap to continue happening.

Grab a friend and do it together.

(back to the thread)

The Republican Congress passed a line item veto law in the 1990s. Clinton wanted it too. But the law was found unconstitutional:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/06/25/scotus.lineitem/

So the president no longer has it.

Andrew