I'm not in a risk group by any means, but we are all potential victims through blood transfusions and the like. This is great news.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=93439

Good catch Deane. I hope they get this to our neighbors in Africa, as soon as it is determined to be safe and effective. This could be great news for the whole world.

Agreed. Some hard work hopefully is now paying off.

And then Bono can save other parts of the planet.

Like Ireland.

<sarcasm>Shouldn't an AIDS vaccine be supressed, like George Bush does with birth control education, because it promotes promiscuous sex?</sarcasm>

I'm amused by the fact that Deane felt it necessary to declare his risk-group nonmembership prior to sharing this.

good observation. I'm now a bit shamed to be a member of Deane's risk-group nonmembership club. I say we censor Deane for being politically incorrect.

So, should I become an IV drug user so I can be in the same club with the rest of you, or what are you trying to say?

By the way, for what it's worth, I wear the badge of political incorrectness with honor. Being accused of being PC incorrect is a major compliment to me.

Deane says
, but we are all potential victims through blood transfusions and the like.

NO we're not Deane! Blood transufsuions are safer than ever today! This is not 1986, this is 2007.
In the last 10-15 years when have you heard of anyone contracting aids from a blood transfusion???
Again this is not 1986, we are living in 2007. They can screen for the Hiv virus.

I have had a friend (female, hetero, no drugs ever, married, kids, upper-middle-class) die of AIDS.

Another one (same as above, but no kids) who is has been living with HIV for many years.

If you have sex with anyone besides yourself, you're in a risk group, DJ, even if it's an astromically miniscule number.

We are, on average, seperated by only six (that's freaking SIX!!) people.

Getting this disease is a whole lot easier than most people think. And that's the whole problem and need for such a vaccine right there.

Yep, just think about that one transgression... If your partner pulls this, you are in the risk group and don't even know it!

What's even more brutal is the sometimes very long gestation time. For some, it's a very long time before symptoms appear. Even then, they can often manifest as other diseases. Heck, may be other diseases allowed to fester because of the diminishing immune system.

This wide variance, combined with a lotta ignorance means trouble for just about anyone, just like Mrs. Merkin said.

ITs kind of a no brainer, before you have sex, go get tested, even if your partner is sure they are clean. This shit is scary and most people who are carrying the virus don't even know they have it. I was watching an E true hollywood story the other night on Studio 54.
It talked about the Orgies that were constanly going on night after night. They interviewd the owner of Club 54 and he said "Back in the early 70's ,the men who took part in these orgies were only worried about one thing, geting a girl pregnant and THATS IT! Oh, How simple life would be if pregnancy was THE ONLY THING YOU HAD TO WORRY ABOUT after a lustfull night of shaggin.

An AIDS vaccine is a waste of time and money, you only get AIDS from bodily fluid transfer, and if people would just control their behavior there would be no problem.

Money spent on AIDS vaccines would be much better spent on Breast cancer and Prostate cancer research.

OK.

Ok Nwokie. You start, lead by example and get back to the rest of us huh?

Sell it buddy. The world needs your help!

"if people would just control their behavior there would be no problem."

Oh but that's so true about so many things...

More money is wasted on Breast and Prostate cancer research. Somebody(s) is getting rich. Westernized mainstream medicine is so over funded and not getting real true results.

Of the trillions of dollars spent on global medicine each year the US spends 59 percent!! You would think that with that amount of money spent on our health care system we would have the best health care system in the world. Sadly the US is 24th.

For thousands of years before westernized medicine evolved many cultures used the earth's resources to maintain good health, and deal with illness. We need a reawakening to our health care, not more money thrown away.

Yeah but breast and prostate treatments aren't for the gay cancer. That's all that's going on with Nwokie. Please don't expect anything reasonable or flexible to be discussed with him.

Just a reminder from your resident Chickenjuggler.

"An AIDS vaccine is a waste of time and money, you only get AIDS from bodily fluid transfer, and if people would just control their behavior there would be no problem."

Dude, it's like you're DARING God to give you AIDS.

LMAOcoughwheezelolHA.

No shit.

And then Nwokie is like "Oh God, Why Me?"

Welcome to the Gay cancer you fucker.

Gotta love ignorance like Nwokie's

Aids is Gods punishment for premarital sex!

Don't forget shooting up with dirty needles, too! And toilet seats, anal probes, petting monkeys, and sneezing!

If you have had sex, you are in the risk group, so who here is going to admit that they do not make the scene with the humpy bumpy?

Oh, just for fun, who here has been faithful all of their life to one man or woman?

Ah, yes, daring God indeed.

I've been celibate since I got married, does that count? hahahahhahaha! (It only seems like forever)

Author: Littlesongs
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:59 pm

"Oh, just for fun, who here has been faithful all of their life to one man or woman?"

It's a little bit on the personal side but what the heck....Raises Hand. And yes the reverse is also true for my wife as well!

We met in high school and been together ever since!

IT is very difficult to meet a young woman who is still a virgin, they just don't come that pure anymore. Thats why discussing how many sexual partners they have had in the past is very important. Now if they say "more than 10" run like hell!

You've been celibate ever since you got married???
Merkin what about the time we went horseback riding and well.......Nevermind! Some things just need to be forgotten.

Author: Mrs_merkin
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 3:11 pm


I've been celibate since I got married, does that count?

So I suppose baby M was by Divine Conception then?

The Aids vaccine will be here soon enough! We have already made huge jumps and loop holes in slowing the virus down. Look at Magic Johnson, he has been HIV positive for over 16 years and he still hasn't developed full blown aids yet. Infact he is probably more healthy and will live longer than most people on this board. Is it any coincidence that his nickname is MAGIC??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!

"Like a dirty pair of underwear, Im OFF"!
Goodnight Every body!

EWwwwwwww! Dang, do they stick to the wall as well?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9903E1DA1039F93AA15754 C0A965948260

Homosexuals account for 72 % of aids, IV drug users 19%, Hemophilics 1% is the 4Th most at risk group, which means normal hetro sexuals, that dont have sex with homosexuals or IV drug users have a very minimal chance to get aids.

Lets see, Homosexuals constitute about 5% of the population and 72% of the AIDS cases, and people still say, AIDS isnt primiarly a gay disease?

Are we talking about Here in the US Nwokie? Since Africa has the highest population I would think that the Aids cases are by mostly heterosexual couples. In Africa the men sometimes have 6 or 7 wives. I would think that the homosexual count in Africa is very small. But then again, I m just guessing.
As far as here in the states, that is some pretty shocking statistics. While Aids originally started as the gay mans disease I thought that eventually more heterocouples would be catching up, but that appears not to be the case. Kids these days, while they still should be worried about contracting the virus, they should be more worried about Herpies and gonarrhea(Sp) Not to mention THE THOUSANDS OF STDS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DISCOVERED YET! Now that is scary!

Using a NYT article on Haitians and New York City AIDS statistics is hardly representative of HIV and the entire country.

Here are some more statistics:

An estimated one million people are currently living with HIV in the United States, with approximately 40,000 new infections occurring each year.

70 percent of these new infections occur in men and 30 percent occur in women.

By race, 54 percent of the new infections in the United States occur among African Americans, and 64 percent of the new infections in women occur in African American women.

75 percent of the new infections in women are heterosexually transmitted.

Half of all new infections in the United States occur in people 25 years of age or younger.

http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml

From the CDC:
Transmission categories of adults and adolescents with HIV/AIDS DIAGNOSED during 2005:

80% of female cases are via heterosexual contact.

HIV and AIDS were originally thought to affect mostly gay men. However, women have always been affected too. And even though more men than women have HIV, women are catching up. In fact, if new HIV infections continue at their current rate worldwide, women with HIV may soon outnumber men with HIV.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/At-A-Glance.htm

For me, a real eye-opener statement many years ago was:

If you've ever contracted an STD, it could've been HIV...

Long ago in the '80's and 90's I'd guess most of the single population between the ages of 18 and 40-ish in the partyin' Utah ski resort town I lived in was gettin' busy! I doubt much has changed, except maybe safer practices? (I hope!)

Author: Mrs_merkin
Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 3:11 pm

"I've been celibate since I got married, does that count?"

So I suppose baby M was by Divine Conception then?

Yes! Baby St. Merkin!

Hey, thanks to the miracles of modern medicine, one doesn't even need to be in the building (lab) for conception!

Portland is lucky to have one of the top fertility clinics in the US, women come from all over the world to get pregnant here.

Sure a small number of hetrosexual couples get aids , but their all the direct result of a gay person or IV user behaving irresponsibly, and the tatal numbers of non gay, non IV drog users, and people that dont use prostitutes is insignificant.

TRhe reason AIDS is so prevelant in Africa is the culture allows the men to use prostitures, and they dont use prottection.

The only thing a vacinaton will do, is allow the gays to return to their previous ways, and in a few years there will be a much stronger AID virus, that just might be transmitted through the air.

Now the only way to get aids, is if some how you get blood or semon or other bodily fluid from an aids infected person in your blood stream, just getting it on you does not give you aids.

The various gay groups have done a masterful public relations program conviencing people, their not the cause of aids in the US.

Who says gay people have changed a thing?

And where are you going here as well? Being gay is wrong somehow? Again, maybe we might just all see how wrong it is, if we somehow magically buy into this point? Those of us, who are gay, are gonna read this and say, "Wow! I better go straight right away. Nwokie just nailed it!" ?!?

Not being gay, some gay conduct is, having sex and not telling yopur partner you have AIDS is wrong, having group sex is wrong, donating blood if your in a high risk group is wrong, knowing you have AIDS or may have aids and having sex without protection is wrong. Fighting prudent methods to stop the spread of aids, such as partner notification is wrong.

Hmmmm.... All of that stuff applies to straight people too.

Your point is?

Most gay rights groups dont, they consider it personal responsibility and should be up to the individual.

Google Partner Notification, and see which groups are fighting it. And look at the groups that fought regulation of the gay bathhouses.

You really are an Okie.

Again:

75 percent of the new infections in women are heterosexually transmitted.

Half of all new infections in the United States occur in people 25 years of age or younger.

It affects somebody you know.


P.S. Okie, I think I found your membership card to www.steamportland.com on the sidewalk.

Again, straight bath houses have similar risks...

I thought you would be all for personal responsibility. Safe sex is safe for all, not just gay people.

You have failed to differentiate this in a way that sets gay people apart from straight people. Truth is, sex is sex. Either it's done in a low risk manner, or it is not. One's orientation has nothing to do with this.

End of story, morning glory.

Perfectly said.

Nope, what we have determined is that AIDS is caused by behavior, and the gay community which is a very small part of society, has an overwhelming majority of the AIDS cases, because of their behavior. We dont need a vaccine to treat AIDS, we need people to change their behavior.
End of Story.

heh. if everybody thought like nwokie, the human race would be wiped out in no time at all.

Nwokie is 100% WRONG!
The fastest growing segment in the WORLD is heterosexuals that have AIDS!
Nwokie needs some facts.....
No wonder he believes in the Bush administration.

Let me explain nwokie's view of the world:

AIDS, (anybody can get AIDS -- hetrosexuals/homosexuals) a behavior disease (you can "behave" and stay at home).

Common Cold, (anybody can get the common cold -- hetrosexuals or homosexuals) a behavior disease (you can "behave" and stay at home}.

Therefore, if you don't "behave" and stay at home and later get AIDS or the common cold, you're gay.


See? Makes perfect sense.

Nwokie, I'm sure glad you are in the 20 something percent of us, rapidly marginalizing themselves. It will all be over soon.

Let us know if you need help. There is still time to fix things. We can use more solid Americans. C'mon man! Turn that passion for this country into some real good. You will feel better for having done it.

Nwokie says
"knowing you have AIDS or may have aids and having sex without protection is wrong."

Isin't that called murder?? If not it sure should be! If you're out having sex, and you are HIV positive and you don't tell your partner, you should be locked up in jail for life! Im still curious how accurate Nwokies statistics are on the gay population accounting for 72%of the aids population. There was a guy in portland a few years back circulating the bars in portland, metting women in bars, taking them home and purposefully infecting them with HIV.

Difference between a cold and AIDS, you can get a cold from breathing the air someone exhales, you only get AIDS from getting the blood or semen from someone else into your blood stream.

You dont catch it from the toilet seat or swimming pool.

Well, you've got that right.

So, just for morbid curiosity, what behavior changes would you have people make?

I would have them quit having un protected sex, not donate blood if in a high risk catagory, let their partner know if they are in high risk group, dont use IV drugs, or at least dont share needles.

from the CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/basic.htm#exposure

Of the approx 45,000 new cases of aids last year
18,930 were from male to male sex
9,000 from iv drug use
2000 from iv drug use and male to male sex
13500 from high risk sex by hetro couples
high risk defined as having sex with someone you know has aids, or is in a high risk gropu

540 other.

Alright trixter and Kskd and Mrs_Merkel, show me where I'm wrong, about AIDS being a behavioral problem, primarily tied to Gay behavior.

Just look at the stats you posted above!

It's a healthy mix of behavior. Sorry, but this is just not solid support for gay being wrong, or the cause of AIDS, etc...

I do agree on the behavior bit though. Safe sex should be encouraged and the norm for everybody. I'll easily stand with you on that one. It's the right thing to do.

Show me all the homosexuals in AFRICA!!!!!
When you can do that Nwokie then I'll believe you... Africa has the FASTEST growing AIDS population in the world.....
Nwokie..
R U a homophob???
I agree 100% that EVERYONE should practice safe sex that IS a behavior should be taught!

Africa has the fastest growing aids problem, because of the prevalanve of prostitutes.

And I dont particulary care about Africa, its their society and their problem.

That's a pretty sad view. I feel fortunate to live in a country that allows you to have that opinion.....however much I disagree with it!

If an area insists on maintaining a culture that has a harmful side affect, thats their choice.
If Africa would cease the practice of most of the men visiting prostitutes and start using condoms their aids rate would dramatically drop, just as in the US if Gays and IV drug users would change their behavior, AIDs here would drop dramatically.

Its a matter of choice, they continue to behave in a way that greatly increases their chance for aids.

Very sad Nwokie.... Very sad....
Your a HARDLINE EXTREME REICHER for sure...

I see we have 3 options.

1. We can spen billions of dollars trying to cure aids, and since medical science doesnt know how to cure any virus diseases, that would probably be futile anyway.

2. People in AIDS high risk groups could make minor adjustments in their behavior, and pretty much eliminate aids.

3. Do nothing.

I go for 2.

4. We could ignore all the jerks that think lording it over other peoples lives is easier than solving the problems that get in their way in the first place.

Here's hoping nwokie gets AIDS via his wife's affair with the pool boy (who picked up the HIV virus from sharing a needle).

Nwokie is just clueless....
Damn Bible thumpers!

Some things never change. You can't attack Nwokies's thinking, so you attack him personally.

Actually his thinking has been shown here and it's not a sure thing.

If we could change behavior and for sure eliminate this disease, there would be a strong case for it. However, even with all the changes proposed here, people are still at risk; thus the efforts to eliminate that risk are still justified.

Failure to reach acceptance of this reality, and continuing to blame behavior and deny others a lower risk environment is very jerk like behavior.

Sorry, but it's more complex than just picking on Nwokie Deane.

DJ..
I attack his thinking all the time.... Since it's bassackwards!
Flame on neo-CONer....

One fact has been established on this forum beyond question. If a person doesn't agree with the radical left wing thinking of a number of the members, they are portrayed as an idiot, personally attacked and called names. It's just part of the scenery.

Doesn't work with me because I couldn't care less. All one has to do is consider the source of the attack to realize it's little more than a yapping Chihuahua, just a lot of noise and not much substance.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Aids isnt even in the top 15, as to cause of death, and we're spending a disproportionate amount of money on something, that could essentially be eliminated by a change in behavior. I also think use of tobacco products should be outlawed.

nwokie has a chance to redeem himself and move out of the bigot catogory.

reagan did the same. as you recall, reagan's nwokie-type views caused needless AIDS deaths, including NON-GAY deaths until reagan realizied it has nothing to do with behavior. Reagan apologized for his backward thinking and regret his initial lack of response response to AIDS.

(It was rock hudson that changed reagan's mind. perhaps a loved one of nwokie will do the same.)

Since when is stating facts, bigotry? Aids is caused by behavior. Change the behavior, no more Aids.

When its not based on fact. You're a bigot.

Deane: One fact has been established on this forum beyond question. If a person doesn't agree with the radical left wing thinking of a number of the members, they are portrayed as an idiot, personally attacked and called names. It's just part of the scenery.

No it hasn't.

This happens on both sides, and it shouldn't. However, the one constant that always rides along on these threads is requests for support for one's views.

Nwokie thinks AIDS is a gay disease. It's a behavior problem. We are spending too much money on it.

On the first, burden not met. On the second, there is some common ground, but no absolutes. Working on behavior is good however, in this everyone seems to agree. Differentiating that from being a gay disease remains difficult and that's nothing more than an excuse to justify discriminatory thinking, policies, etc...

Work to be done there.

On the third, the floor is open...

IMHO, my jerk comment comes down to the gay problem. I've not seen a rational justification for bigotry yet. So, I feel pretty good about rebutting that whenever it arises. Part of that is emotional. If you are acting like a bigot, then others are well within their rights to express themselves about that. Getting called a jerk is all part of that.

People should not feel good about bigorty, sorry but that's how it is.

For what it's worth, I personally included some discussion beforehand.

We remain completely free to be bigots, but like all forms of freedom, ones peers do serve as a check on that behavior.

If somebody called me a jerk, for saying this kind of stuff, I would feel bad about it. In fact, it's been done, and I did feel bad. Rather than try to explain that away, I chose to get educated and explore just why I feel bad and why others would react as they do.

Balls in anybodys court where that is concerned.

If you feel good about discriminatory thinking and behavior, then the occasional comment or two really should not be that big of a deal right? If it is a big deal, perhaps some reconsideration of that behavior and the justifications for it is in order, rather than just point to the comments themselves.

Your comment Deane is aimed squarely at marginalizing others. It's a back door justification for the kinds of behavior I detailed above. Yes, it's part of the scenery. Agreed on that score. But it's not a bad thing as you imply generally speaking.

In a nutshell: Act like an ass, get called an ass. (Not saying anybody here is an ass with that statement, only working for brevity!) Feel good about being an ass? No problem. Feel bad? Address it, or deal.

Nwokie, I too think tobacco should be outlawed. It's a big ass harm that does us no good. Frankly, I think it should be illegal to sell. People, wanting to cultivate it should do so and deal with the ramifications accordingly.

It's vile stuff. I'll be going on my fifth time attempting to quit. (dammmit I'm weak!)

If a woman fell in front of you and was not breathing would you give her mouth to mouth resussatation or let her die? I mean you do not know if she is gay or not and therefore could get aids by helping her.

And you dont get aids from giving mouth to mouth.

You only get aids form getting blood, semon or other bodily fluids into your bloodstream.

And the number of women, gay or not with aids in very small, almost statistically insignificant.

DJ said>>>
a lot of noise and not much substance.

sounds a lot like neo-CONers....

If they have bleeding, then there is a risk. It's a small risk... cut in mouth, internal bleeding, oral surgery, etc...

The bigger worry is hepatitis and other similar diseases.

>>>"DJ said>>>
a lot of noise and not much substance.

sounds a lot like neo-CONers...."

Thanks for proving my point Trixter.

Like you are holier than thou Deane.

Bite me.

nwokie sez: "And the number of women, gay or not with aids in very small, almost statistically insignificant."

heh, gotta love it when people post OBVIOUSLY inaccurate information cuz it shows they've no clue as to what they're talking about.

OK....when she fell she bit her tongue and is bleeding in the mouth. Do you do nothing as she dies out of fear of aids or do you give her mouth to mouth?

Of course not. Just was adding to the "no risk" part of the discussion.

Hell, getting outta bed has it's risks! Ask my back that this morning. If one starts down that slippery slope, might as well just give it all up.

Knowing we are near to controlling this disease does make that situation easier, does it not?

Everything has risks as well as options. If a person is bleeding in the mouth area then you would need to find something to cover the mouth with and blow air in through the nose. Gross I know but it is better than the alternative either way for both parties.

Yep. A quick check does no harm, and does largely mitigate that risk.

Also good to pick up a coupla those interface devices for this sort of thing. Toss one in the car, and another at the house. You never know when it might come in handy.

I've posted lots of statistics from the NIH and CDC, all show that women have very few cases of aids.

But as I said before giving mouth to mouth has little risk, at that can be mitigated by taking a few precautions.

Well the good part is if an AIDS vaccine becomes available, Nwokie will just have to deal with it being available. He won't be able to stop it.

So say whatever you want about it Nwokie - you can't do a damned thing about it. Nothing.

Nmokie would be a good person to play Charlton Heston's part when they remake the film "Omega Man". He'd be a natural at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymaj5r2BMIA

IMHO, it's a good thing too.

Truth is, we've plenty to spend on this kind of thing. Same with many social programs we always hear people complaining about.

Factor out the half trillion for Iraq and suddenly the amount of dollars we have to put to good uses appears to be more than enough. It's a contrived shortage, and it's by design.

Go read what is left of PNAC (Project for a New American Century) for all the gory details. Essentially, the idea is to starve the government such that it breaks down. Replace as much of it as possible with private fiefdoms, and you've got a new arrangement where the wealthy get to call the shots and make money while they are at it.

Maybe Nwokie should volunteer at local high Schools, talking to them about the Aids Virus. What do ya say Wokie?

Re: The Omega Man

Yes, and his love interest still has to be an African-American woman.

Why, unless someone has gay sex, is a IV drug user, or knowingly has sex with someone for those groups, they have almost no chance to catch aids. The statistics I posted support that, there were only about 500 cases of people geting aids, that wern't in one of those 3 groups, out of over 45,000 aids cases.

Thats only about the same number of people being hit by lightening.

DA..
THANKS for proving MY point to everyone here!

Darn. Just when AIDS had become a major player in the effort to control population growth. Now I guess we'll just have to rely on the old standbys: heart disease, lung cancer, war, auto accidents and perhaps the flu pandemic I keep hearing predictions about.

Nwokie said - "Why, unless someone has gay sex, is a IV drug user, or knowingly has sex with someone for those groups, they have almost no chance to catch aids."

Yeah. And you STILL wont be able to stop it. It's awesome. You will have LOST, on every level.

Plonkitty, *plonk*, *Plonk*, *PLONK!*

There is is folks! A solid example of one who just did not meet their burden.

Nope, if people would change their behavior, aids would be just above lightening strikes for deaths.

Dont see a call to develop personal lightening protectors.

All of the publicity about aids, is the gay community trying to get everyone to pay so they can go back to their regular hedonist lifestyle.

Yeah. I know. I believe you. And yet there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Nowkie...
How about ALL the heterosexuals that are spreading AIDS??? HUH???

Very few hetrosexuals are spreading aids,, of 45000 cases last year, all but about 500 were spread by Gays, IV drug users, or peole knowingly having sex with someone from those 2 groups.ould know they have aids being prosecuted for attempted murder if they have unprotected sex. And I am also in favor of the health dept notifying everyone that someone with aids has had sex with, and if they lie to the health workers, being proxecuted for attempted murder.

I am all in favor of someone that knows, or sh

If you have aids or is HIV positive and you are running around having unprotected sex, than you are a MURDERER and should be locked up for life, Infact you might as well be blowing peoples heads off with a shot gun because it is the same thing! If you are out having sex and you're too lazy to get tested, than their should be penalties if you infect someone with HIV. If you're too lazy and stupid to get tested after having many sexual partners than YOU are not responsible enough to be having sex!

No, Im not dr. Phil, I'm actually Sue Johanson from the Oxygen channel.