Pro-Life Nation

Typical liberal media with a totally slanted and one-sided article there. And gee...it was in the New York Times! Surprise, surprise. They indeed make Fox News look fair and balanced. Wasn't The New York Times the fishwrapper that simply invented a bunch of their stories? How do we know this one wasn't just cooked up as well?

You can provide us with plenty of stories, yet they'll never be as sad as the one about the innocent little kid whose precious life is snuffed out by the two people who we'd expect to defend life: A physician and the baby's mother.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31

I will praise you Lord because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. For you knit me together in my mother's womb. All the days ordained for me were written in your book: before one of them came to be. Psalm 139

It would be well for him if a great stone was put round his neck and he was dropped into the sea, before he made trouble for any of these little ones. Luke 17:2

Herb

Here ya go Herb. This is good medicine.

Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap; for the measure you give will be the measure you get back. Luke 6:36-38

Do what is right not only to respectable citizens, but especially to the disrespectable ones as well; be at peace not only with those who are peaceable, but especially with those who do not wish to let us live in peace.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Herb, are you for outlawing abortion and if so, what penalties would the prescribe for any woman having and abortion? Incarceration, death penalty?

Would making abortion illegal lower the abortion rate or increase it. Germany has very liberal abortion laws and has some of the lowest abortion rates.

Chris, you quote a wonderful man, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He's one of the guys who tried to kill Hitler. I'm certain he would not judge any woman in need but like Jesus, he would defend the innocent and weakest among us as well.

And Listenerpete-I would not go after ANY women. I would focus all my attention on the doctors. They could have their choice: Hefty, hefty fines which would go directly to women truamatized by abortion, OR work in hospitals located in prisons or for the indigent.

Herb

Maybe the fines can go to families of all the girls and women who will die as a result of botched back-alley abortions performed if abortion becomes illegal again?

Andrew

Herb-Bonhoeffer found himself in tough place. A clergyman as an accomplice in a plot to murder. If anyone would have an interesting opinion on the issue of abortion it would be Dietrich. Like you I love Bonhoeffer, but his writings are filled with the conflict within his soul.

To make abortion illegal is simply asking for more abortions as I see it. I again raise this...lets not get to that point. Lets have men take some responsibility. This world would be a better place if women were in charge.

Herb's Dream: Wet or dry?

You be the judge.

"Wasn't The New York Times the fishwrapper that simply invented a bunch of their stories?"

Yes, but she played for your team.

Good old Judith Miller:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/

I think FAUXNews is the one that MAKES UP stories.
I might be wrong....
NO WAY!

"Yes, but she played for your team."

Wrong. Try again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair

The New York Times is an leftist rag.

Herb

No, Herb, you're quite wrong on this one. Miller did the Bush administration a great favor by publishing pro-war propoganda for them. The NYT also published a number of what turned out to be Whitewater stories about the Clintons.

Andrew

Jayson was a greenhorn idiot with delusions of grandeur and little by way of a track record. Judy was an established voice with a great deal of -- fear disguised as -- respect from her colleagues. He was criminally stupid, she was criminally insane.

Jayson Blair was a malarkey weaver to be sure, and a very poor one at that, but his monkeyshine didn't cost lives. Since she was instrumental in pre-war disinformation, Judith Miller told lies that have killed our young men and women, and continue to put our soldiers in harm's way. His lies did stop, but many of her falsehoods were adopted as truth and led us to this place in history.

They both ought to have all their pencils broken and then be beaten beaten silly with a rolled up Oregon Journal.

I do not want to see another post by any of you in this topic calling Herb a troll.

You have just lost that right.

"I do not want to see another post by any of you in this topic calling Herb a troll."

Unless you are a enjoying a gallon of absinthe, the word did not appear until you just typed it, Troll.

HERB IS A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!
Toecheese is a troll!!!!!

It's an honour to be included in the same sentence as Cochise.

Herb

"Author: Cochise
Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 6:02 pm

I would rather have a black President anyday over one that bleeds for five days a month."

"It's an honour to be included in the same sentence as Cochise." Herb, now be reasonable, do you really feel honoured?

All worms crawl deep from the sunlight. I'd like to think I still have some respect for you, but not if you are willing to excuse his behavior. It was definitely misogynist and probably racist.

Nobody was talking Troll until an actual bonafide ad hominem spewing ham-fisted tiny minded pinhead showed up. Then, ladies and germs, it was Trolltime. If it isn't obvious to you, there are people who used to like you, even respect you, but don't because of this Troll.

This is your dream Herb, please don't let it become a nightmare. Others would gladly bury you, but I still think there is hope. Please show the Troll how a gentleman acts and let us move on.

Take your time, I have a long day of Edward R. Murrow broadcasts to enjoy.

I like Cochise and enjoy many of his politically incorrect comments.

Just as many on this board will not endorse certain comments by Mr. Biden or Robert KKK Byrd, I don't endorse everything said by Cochise.

However, if you'd like I can provide quotes from plenty of your leftist buddies and you can uncomfortably attempt to distance yourselves from THEM.

Which is it?

Herb

"I like Cochise and enjoy many of his politically incorrect comments."

Do you like them BECAUSE they are politically incorrect?

Fuck that noise. ( I'm Un-PC too now, right? Please like me for being a rebel. )

Herb, this isn't personal. Really, it isn't between you and me or anyone else in specific. It is about roughly half of the population. See, here's the deal, if someone had cracked wise about the way you were built, your color, your race or your age, you could take offense. In fact, you would have every right.

Additionally, if that was what the conversation came down to, someone only attacking who you are and not your political convictions or opinions, most of the gushiest bleeding hearts -- that you currently seem to think are heartless -- would tell them to go straight to hell. You do get this, right?

You know why I lurked and waited to join this little corner of the world? Because folks weren't getting along in a dramatic, crappy way. Is it any surprise that the board has seen a bit of a revival? Sure, the industry will always provide rumors and yuks on the other side. I am talking about here, where the patties are green and soft.

Dan doesn't mind if we camp our brains here, but do not be surprised if some tents have moved further down the shore. Even if we hike all night, we'll play that harmonica sweet and low across the lake for you. Remember, only you can prevent forest fires.

"If it isn't obvious to you, there are people who used to like you, even respect you, but don't because of this Troll."

Bingo, Littlesongs.

"However, if you'd like I can provide quotes from plenty of your leftist buddies and you can uncomfortably attempt to distance yourselves from THEM."

I would be quite honored to enjoy a compendium of facts and wisdom from the "leftist buddies" in this forum. Will you bind it in a tiny red volume? That would be delightful. I can put it up next to my tiny red Mao book and my tiny red LBJ book.

I am confident that most folks in this room would not resort to gender baiting, race slandering or any other thing that might get them stuffed into a dumpster behind a bar. So, if they are all monsters, I'd love to see proof.

Or, you could save a great deal of time by telling the Troll to tuck his shirt in, wipe his nose and apologize. Or, heck, here is an easy one, just admit that you love women too much for his pie hole to spew that garbage. See, that last one is as easy as falling off of a log.

"I can put it up next to my tiny red Mao book...."

I realize you're not all raging leftists, but with so much of the 'blame America first' rheoteric around here, sometimes it seems that way.

One of the reasons I like Cochise so much is because he's one of the few who can consistently get the left's undies in a twist..

Herb

From what planet did the "blame America first" movement come from? Oh yeah, that damned, Earth.

No Herb, this isn't a group of bitter Europeans, Arabs or any others who are still rebuilding after we bombed them to the stone age. Nobody here is blaming the country. Everyone, but you it seems - and a few less literate yes men - is sick of the shrub.

As Americans of all kinds, we are all angry and ashamed to be led by a junior Stalinist with a Napoleon complex who has pushed us to kill more Semites than any western government since Hitler.

Yes, when you earn those three despotic references, you are not fit to govern our land. America is not broken, our government is broken. There is a very big difference. A big huge difference between citizens with opinions that make you uncomfortable and a leadership that murders, tortures and laughs all the way to the bank.

It isn't about the shrub though, it is about the company you keep. If she heard what "hardwood" said, a sweet little librarian would have shushed him and then beat him to death with a stapler. Heck, the fine folks who live in the aptly named city of Friend would have pitched him from a moving pickup into an irrigation ditch. Can you not see that it was and still is the stupidest thing said here in months?

Still, all hope and reason are lost. As Herb engages in a valiant effort to cling to rules that the "boy's club" threw out, along with our Y-fronts, training wheels, dead frogs and broken whirlygigs.

Let's get things clear huh?

It's blame the GOP first. Afterall this mess is their creation. America is just fine. The healing has begun for another cycle. Hopefully we will all be better for it.

See Herb? There is a difference, and remember who, of all the treehuggers here, pointed out the respectable Republicans?

I had to dig for them, but they are still around, still Constitutionalists and still mad as hell about this war that they voted against.

Ah, but this is your dream, and I digress. So, which is it? Girls in your dreams? Or just Cochise?

By the way, not that it matters to you, but my dear old Mom likes to lurk and enjoy the frivolity. I am not jumping for joy when she has to wade through so much manure to reach the ponies. So, if it is personal at all, it would be that my own kin has to read the vile keychatter of a bigot.

Wow, wasn't this thread started due to some sanctity of motherhood issues? Hmmmm. Ironic.

Herb said>>>>One of the reasons I like Cochise so much is because he's one of the few who can consistently get the left's undies in a twist..

This is one of your problems and it's why your a troll. You don't care that Toecheese is a bigot and incorrect on almost every single one of his facts as long as he thinks extreme REICH.
Have fun with that......

Well, it is your dream, and if you want nothing but dick, well, here is nothing but Dick:

http://www.archive.org/details/richard_nixon_may24_1973
http://www.archive.org/details/nixon-03-24-1972
http://www.archive.org/details/richard_nixon
http://www.archive.org/details/Kennedy-Nixon_fourth_debate_10_21_1960
http://www.archive.org/details/Kennedy-Nixon_third_debate_10_13_1960
http://www.archive.org/details/Kennedy-Nixon_second_debate_10_7_1960
http://www.archive.org/details/Kennedy-Nixon_first_debate_09_26_1960
http://www.archive.org/details/1960_kennedy-nixon_2
http://www.archive.org/details/1960_kennedy-nixon_1
http://www.archive.org/details/1959-08-06_Nixons_Triumphal_Return
http://www.archive.org/details/1959-07-30_Nixon_In_USSR
http://www.archive.org/details/1959-07-27_Nixon_In_USSR
http://www.archive.org/details/1959-07-23_Nixons_Moscow_Mission
http://www.archive.org/details/1956-11-05_Eisenhower_Re-Elected
http://www.archive.org/details/1956-08-23_Its_Ike_and_Nixon
http://www.archive.org/details/1956-08-20_Republican_Convention
http://www.archive.org/details/1955-07-25_Ike_Returns
http://www.archive.org/details/1952-09-25_Politics_Ike_Okays_Nixon
http://www.archive.org/details/1952-09-22_Politics_Ike_Stumps_Midwest
http://www.archive.org/details/Eisenhow1952
http://www.archive.org/details/NixonsAr1950

It has been arranged in such a way that he gets younger, less paranoid and more ambitious. Enjoy!

Trixter, if you want to play 'all or none' then, let's see you defend Robert KKK Byrd and Mr. Gore's father, who voted AGAINST 1960's Civil Rights.

Both of these men have DONE FAR worse than ANYTHING Cochise has SAID.

By the way, Littlesongs, those are some FINE Nixon links! Awesome. Too bad we didn't take a DNA sample of Mr. Nixon. We could re-elect him a third time.

Herb

Too bad we didn't take a DNA sample of Mr. Nixon.

That we KNOW of. His head might be between Walt Disney's and JFK's brain.

You are getting it, just a little, but getting it. If I was not interested in quality dialogue, would I send you any resources at all?

What we are talking about is the difference between a contentious contributor, Herbert Milhous and a consistent detractor, Cochise. You can play for the winning club, just be truthful.

Pete, Chris, the Andrews, Trix, Chickenjuggler and Missing have all made this a worthwhile thread without my torch. Thank you all.

Mrs. Merkin, you most of all, thank you. You have been very patient with the primates.

Herb, do you want to wake up to angels or valkyries? The apology always hurts less than the dread of being wrong.

"Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth."
-- Matthew 5:5 (NIV)
http://www.e-water.net/beatitudes_en.html

"This world would be a better place if women were in charge."
Chris is probably right.

Contentious contributor...I'll take that with some relish, but seriously...Are you being honest in comparing posters here...compared to many in the ham-fisted crew you're slapping high fives with, Littlesongs?

Excellent Bible verse, by the way.

Herb

A couple of weeks ago our Pastor preached his message on Mathew 5:5.

He presented the point of view that in Jesus's time that "meek" held a different meaning than it does today.

If you are so inclined, here is a link to his message;

http://www.vanfcog.org/events/sermons/2007-02-11

You may have to right click and then do "save file as", depending on the settings of your PC.

Jesus was considered rather contentious, but I don't think he relished that position. He was upset with the religious order of the day.

"pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness." 1 Timothy 6:11

Remember that I promised to never quote the Bible, unless it was in cases of extreme hypocrisy? I have kept that promise.

So, Herb, is it just your ego?

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."
Daniel 11:37

Or are you hung up on Leviticus 12 & 15?

Either way, it is far less Biblical, and far more like a Kafka story.

Good Morning Herb.

You are a Troll.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Herb

The topic was created and titled "herbs Dream". You clearly expected him to post in this topic(much like 90% of the other topics you people post here) so how can you call him a troll?

You people would be lost without Herb here to lead you.

You're very kind, Mc74.

Herb

Mc74 and Herb. Get over yourselves.

I have to agree with Mc74.

By reading the title and then following the link, it's obvious that this thread was started to bait Herb.

I've said many times: I don't consider Herb a troll.

Andrew

Gentlemen, I like you all, but the opportunity was presented to Herb to apologize for condoning a comment that has offended members of our fine forum. After deliberation, he has decided to decline the grace of others and stick to his guns.

The result is that he has achieved the same status as the person who posted the vile comment. His dogged, tireless defense of an obvious slur has earned him this title. I can not speak for all, but for myself, I have lost a great deal of respect for Herb.

Yes, I will confess, I did manipulate an abortion discussion that was headed for either a dead end or potential flame war. I changed it into a golden opportunity for an apology and redemption for Herb. The member who made the original comment did not come forward to make amends either and this would have been a fine time. Misogyny, like racism, is simply not smart.

I gave a second chance that either of them could have taken. It just didn't work out that way. One simply left the other hanging in the wind. Since the point has been lost, no apology has been made and this has become tiresome, I now consider the matter of Trolldom closed.

"the opportunity was presented to Herb to apologize for condoning a comment..."

Wrong. Your problem is that I never condoned any comment. I condoned a person's right to speak.
Slime me all you want. It's a badge of honour. Unlike some here, I actually support the First Amendment.

And since you apparently have voted democratic in the past, sounds like you must defend everything Robert 'KKK' Byrd and Mr. Biden say. Don't like character assassination by association? Then don't practice it yourself.

Spin on.

Herb

"Please like me for being a rebel."

Every fucking one of us, Chickenjuggler, even the ones who won't admit it.

Golly, look, I actually support the First Amendment too. Herb, if you were just as aghast as many of the rest of us, you should have piped in. I will defend his right to be antagonistic, yes, even bigoted, but by defending his right, I would not want to confuse anyone by seeming to endorse his position.

If you do not agree with his statement, I am willing to accept that, but really, like I said earlier, I am only offended for women, not as a woman. Therefore, being a guy, I figured it made some folks in here a bit more than just irritated, like me, but perhaps infuriated, angry or even full of blinding rage with thoughts of sawed off shotguns.

So, just for clarity, you do not endorse misogyny, merely the misogynist's right of expression. I can accept that, but a little free advice, don't wait so long to be clear on your position. There is a solid reason for the old adage, "not in front of the ladies." Talk that would not be funny between rows of lockers, is still not amusing here. Agreed?

I have never endorsed misogyny.

"There is a solid reason for the old adage, "not in front of the ladies." Talk that would not be funny between rows of lockers, is still not amusing here."

I try to keep the discourse away from locker talk by limiting profanity. Your take is to go another route and that's fine. As I said, though I don't always agree with him, Cochise often has cogent insights that are resoundingly clear.

I've never met the man, but I imagine him like the Native American in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. People made fun of him, but he was very intelligent.

Herb

Well, profanity is in the eye of the beholder and by percentage, the women I have met from all walks of life have a similar ratio to men in their daily vocabulary. Wisecracks about the monthly cycle, however, do offend. It is a painful burden that we, lucky sons of somethings, do not bear and have no right to make light of.

I would love to think that Cochise has some hidden gift too, Herb. I guess I am not blessed with as much patience as you have with him. However, this infinite grace is not available to any one else beyond a narrow spectrum of vision. So, if I were just a jerk, or even a bigot, but I towed the political line, I'd be golden.

So there is no incentive to be reasonable if one is contrary to your beliefs, since respect is not earned, but only portioned out to like-minded cronies? That is truly a sad state of affairs, but it is not my place to judge the way one holds people in high esteem.

I have friends on all sides of the spectrum, I even spar with a few of them. Obviously, we do not respect each other based on pure partisanship. We like each other and have respect, despite any political differences, because as people, we are far more than just our politics.

Littlesongs....I have decided I want you to do my eulogy.

You make some good points.

I suppose I attempt to limit the profanity because otherwise, closely-held partisan views can turn into little else but name-calling and foul language. In other words, mindless. I can get that at any bar after 10pm.

And if uncivil discourse was all this site had to offer, I'd have been gone long ago. Besides, I don't come here to watch the fights. I come here to watch the touchdowns.
Herb

Chris, so long as you give me at least another 50 years to come up with a rough draft. I hate to be rushed into eulogies. They take almost forever to write and a good portion of that time to edit down. :o)

Just lie then.

I will make sure you don't have a CBS News funeral. According to several accounts, I have heard that the families say nothing, the teleprompters stay warm and folks who were barely colleagues wax poetic about borrowed pencils and silly moments. Meanwhile, the departed, cannot lie flat in his casket from the collection of knives in his back.

I guess, I'll wing it. After all, I suspect you will be doing the exact same thing, but with a much better climb rate. :o)

HerrB writes:

"Your problem is that I never condoned any comment."

"I have never endorsed misogyny."

I call giant-steaming-pile-of-green-runny-bull-ca-ca-doody on that.

My new mantra here, actually a HerrBism, which really deserves it's own thread is this:

"It's implied"

If that isn't the lamest, stupidest, most indefensible cop-out comment I've ever read here...can you all imagine the poop-storm of "hand-wringing-ham-fisted-ad-homo-commie-typical-liberal" attacks we'd get from the Trolls™ if one of us used that?

I can hardly wait to use it over and over! I'm practically giddy and peeing myself silly over HerrB's dreaded "Schadenfreude".

Ooops! I'm sorry if I spelt that wong, I can't find my dickshunairy right this second, but you know what I mean, because, hey, "it's implied".

Mrs. Merkin is a superhero, do not step on her cape.

Herb said, "I've never met the man, but I imagine him like the Native American in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. People made fun of him, but he was very intelligent."

There is some meaty and tangible irony to that statement. Am I the only one who flashed on the ending of that locally shot and Ken Kesey scripted bit of classic cinema?

Do not be surprised if your pillow seems scary from this day forward. It wasn't said, but hey, "it's implied".

Jack Nicholson [Laughing]: "Chief! You can talk! You can talk!" [Grins and Whoops]

Herb

Not that anyone here cares but me, but I have serious doubts that ToeCheese is telling the truth here about his blood quantum. I just don't believe that he is half Native American.

Flame on, trolls!

ToeCheese....that anything like ToeJam? Both good on a Ritz...anything goes on a Ritz! LOL

Edit Add:
Hey Merkin.....here is a job you could really sink your teeth into!
http://www.kraftfoods.com/om/omm_hotdogger.htm

Hey Mrs. Merkin-Seriously, why all the name-calling? Is it simply frustrated anger for those who don't share your views? Who are you mad at and why?

Herb

m-i-s-o-g-y-n-y.

Herb, I spelled it out for you.

I agree that misogyny is not good.
Even assuming it was about that, how do two wrongs make a right?
Besides, it appears to be more political than anything.

Herb

"Even assuming it was about that, how do two wrongs make a right?
Besides, it appears to be more political than anything."

You've answered your own question.

Since it's then political, it's fine for a liberal to smash and bash. But let a conservative try it and all heck breaks loose.

Herb

This is my personal opinion, so make of it what you wish.

Mrs. Merkin is probably the most equipped bullshit detector we have here in this forum. She, like few others, takes her time and her energy to debunk a myth, out a fraud and give us the unbuffered, unvarnished, unsweetened and undiluted truth. She is not a leftist, at all. She is a citizen who feels that it is her duty to find the truth, and share it.

Not only that, Merkin was the first person to welcome me here and make me feel at home. I am not the only member that still appreciates that she expressed that kind of trust and kindness from the start. She makes this place special. She is an essential part of this forum experience and has earned respect.

Additionally, she -- and potentially every other woman in this forum -- has patiently sifted through our various prejudices on thread after thread about Hillary, that refer to Hillary or simply end up touching on Hillary. It might be a lousy read, not because she -- or they -- have any love for Hillary, but because Hillary is a woman and being criticized or attacked for her gender.

So, when Mrs. Merkin -- a friend to many and an enemy to only the false -- is not acting friendly, perhaps it is time to see why. Not wait and wait for something you still cannot seem to grasp, although it has been implied ad nauseum, but really, SEE WHY.

"I agree that misogyny is not good.
Even assuming it was about that..."

Trying SEEING that IT WAS ABOUT THAT, don't assume a thing, really, SEE IT. Can you SEE IT? Really SEE IT? No, look again. Few women have posted recently, did you notice? Can you SEE IT, yet?

Actually, it likely was about that. Fine. I don't recall a woman on this board specifically stating it that directly, but I'm fine with that.

"Mrs. Merkin is probably the most equipped ****** detector we have here in this forum."

As Mr. Nixon used to say, "That's all very well and good."

However, where you see a ******* detector, I see a sorrowful cynic. I don't often agree with Mrs. Merkin, but I don't often agree with most on this board, anyway.

Herb

Who cares what Merkin says,let her flame people.

Its all the argument she has, name calling that is.

Since women are the fairer sex, I was only hoping to cut her some slack.

Herb

Herb, forgive my barnyard gruffness, but bullshit detector is, was and always will be the best word available for someone calling for the truth in these parts.

"I don't recall a woman on this board specifically stating it..."

Do not expect women to call you out on misogyny. Most of the time, they simply write you off and half hope that the boys will clue you in. Beyond some harsh words or violence to awaken the man inside the monkey, they will not help you find that truth. Virtually every time, you are nothing to them until you show true remorse and understanding. It is one of the few instant ways to truly kill their friendship dead. Forever.
============================================
Chris shared this earler, but this time, instead of being academic, simply take in the message like a cool drink of water and see if it brings you a little bit of enlightenment.

"Do what is right not only to respectable citizens, but especially to the disrespectable ones as well; be at peace not only with those who are peaceable, but especially with those who do not wish to let us live in peace."

-- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Littlesongs, I'm buying your drinks, food, and whatever else you desire when we meet. Kisses!

Herrb, I think Cochise is a waste of skin, and not a very nice person in any form regardless of his politics. He is not an Indian. But hey, that's just my opinion. I have no desire or room in my life for people like him.

So yes, I should probably ignore him, but it would be wrong to just stand by and let him go on and on spewing garbage with nary a comment. He's like a skinhead...sure, he has every right to have a parade, but I have the same right to stand on the curb and yell "foul". For that. I'm not the least bit "sorrowful" Herrb, I'm proud of it. It's like my own little Girl-Scout badge of "honour".

I don't remember Cochise talking about being an Indian in this topic so why is it such a issue to you?

Could it be that he said it months ago and for some reason you have held onto to it since then? Seems like for somebody you consider a waste of skin you sure spend alot of time on him.

Now I will just sit back and wait for you to alter my name in some juvenille fashion for a quick cheap laugh.

"Do what is right not only to respectable citizens, but especially to the disrespectable ones as well; be at peace not only with those who are peaceable, but especially with those who do not wish to let us live in peace."

-- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

That's a quote everyone can appreciate, especially me.

The surest way to get my undivided attention is to quote Jesus, C.S. Lewis, or Bonhoeffer.

Herb

the troll sez: "I see a sorrowful cynic."

Another HerrBism. Anyone who disagrees with the HerrB is a cynic.

Anyone who name-calls doesn't have an rational argument.

Herb

This is not true at all. Anyone who name calls, is simply one who name calls.

That issue has nothing to do with the merits of their given point at hand.

Additionally, the actual act of name calling might, in itself be mis characterized and may well have merit.

It's more complex than your simple attempt to dominate some aspects of the discussion you don't like Herb.

All of that goes for fucking profanity too, you hoser!

If you guys expect civil discourse, practice it yourselves.

Otherwise, go ahead and play in the mud.

Herb

If you think so, then that's probably the way it is. However, what you think is not proven to be what others think!

Let me ask you this Herb, did I write anything untrue, in my post above?

If so, why?

Herb-

Jesus did some name calling as I recall when dealing with the religious leaders calling them a "brood of vipers."

"The surest way to get my undivided attention is to quote Jesus, C.S. Lewis, or Bonhoeffer."

I think you got his attention Chris.

Merkin, thank you. :o)

"Go ahead and play in the mud."

Since we are all here in Herb's dream, anybody else wanna built a sandcastle?

Herb's dream is a freedom hating theocracy.

Herb said>>>>
If you guys expect civil discourse, practice it yourselves.

Otherwise, go ahead and play in the mud.

I'm thinkin' it's the neo-CONers that play in the mud.... They throw as much muck against the wall about their opponent until something sticks.
It's called "The Rove Special."

...with extra cheeze!

So, did anyone else notice that Herb disappeared right around the moment that another local impresario took off for ancient Palestine? Probably a co-inky-dink.

"Probably a co-inky-dink."

Let's just leave it that.....but yes I noticed as well.

He's probably on a vacation or something.

Please boys, don't start getting all schmoopy, let me have my moment.

I was thinking that maybe it killed him to admit he was wrong and (sort of half-way) apologize. Either that, or he's still pouting.